Turbo vs GTS vs T - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Haven’t driven a t but generally I have found if you live somewhere with bad roads like I do then any Porsche with the lowered suspension is too harsh .The regular cars are better in this respect , but you can live with say a gts it’s not back breaking but when I was 25 I could put up with it , I wouldn’t now .

So I have a 991 Turbo S. After a couple of years ownership I m missing the engagement of a manual so I m wondering about the above. My biggest concern is day to day ride quality. The Turbo is excellent in this regard. I remember trying a 991 gen GTS and thinking it was way too firm for the type of roads around where I live (Norfolk). Is the T the same? Is the 992 gen any better in terms of ride? Anyone got some direct comparison? Thanks! Edited by bosshog on Sunday 21st June 10:08

I’ve got a 992 manual GTS. The ride is unacceptably s t, it’s as simple as that. But it’s also not stiff enough for on track - it’s like the worst of both worlds. The gearbox is ok but I’ve just been using a friend’s GR86 and that has a far nicer shift. I wish I’d bought a PDK. It’s a strange car; it has so many negatives that I really don’t like about it (it sounds s t, the gears are far too long, the interior rattles and the steering is totally lifeless) but at the same time it’s probably the best all-round car I’ve had. If you’re in Yorkshire you’re very welcome to come and try it out.

Surely if you want a manual then your only options are the T or GT3, unless you’re looking at used cars of course. I’m on my 8th 911 and reckon my current 992 T is one of the best I’ve had, it’s an easy car to live with and great fun when you’re in the mood. I’ve driven the GTS and GT3, I think the GTS chassis struggles to keep up with the power, it’s incredibly quick but not very involving and a bit soulless for me. I loved the GT3 engine and gearbox, but the 992.1 I drove was way too demanding on U.K. roads, I just found it a bit stressful for my needs (almost a daily, 8k miles pa). The T is not the best riding and the cabin is a bit noisy, but among the current crop, if you want a manual I think it’s a great option. If they still made the S with a manual I think that would probably be my next move, but for me the manual box is important, maybe if it was my daily car I would feel differently. Go drive one.

I have a Manual 991.2 GTS with PDCC, it absolutely transforms the ride.

Very different views from Crumpet and Blue though different models - I think they have the same setup suspension wise! I’ll have to just go try a couple again I suppose to really know, but I’m starting to suspect the car I really want does not exist!!!

Man I just realised that you cannot buy a manual 911 that doesn’t have the dropped firmer suspension. No more manual S. What are they doing these days . Older models it is then or switch to a different marque I think. Getting fed up of compromising.

It’s certainly strange given that they fit a manual ‘box in the T. You’re probably going to have to try the S-PASM to see whether you can tolerate it. I live with it but it is bad. To be honest, if I had to do a commute in it then it wouldn’t be the ride that’s the issue, it’s the gearbox. FWIW, my wife detests the car and will only travel an hour and a half max in it. It would be interesting to see whether she can tolerate a base model.

+1 for Koln RS’s spec. I also prefer the styling of the base/S to the T eg no stupid gearbox window stickers or vanadium grey accents.

Just wanted to say, as a 991.1 Turbo S owner I too am pleasently surprised how good the ride is (I bought the car without test driving, or erm, seeing it in person! ) With the roads as they are - I wouldn't want to go any firmer. My previous car - a Giulia QV is famed for having a supple ride but the 991 is better imho - it's slightly firmer but also much better damped so feels more controlled at all times, whether PDCC is engaged or not. I've wondered whether all 911s ride similarly well, but it seems not! And I have also thought whether a RWD car (and maybe manual) would be fun to try in the future so the suspension comparison is really interesting.

I don t find the T (992.2) ride unacceptable. I think it s well judged and certainly how i would expect a sports car to ride. Can t really expect Porsche to engineer their cars around the UK s lazy and disparate local councils approach to road maintenance! Edited by DoubleSix on Tuesday 30th June 10:43

I had a drive of a 991.2 GTS the other day. What a lively fun little sports car? But it’s not a sophisticated and well dampened ride. The 991 turbo is kind of ‘speak softly and carry a bit stick’ by comparison

Well I tried a nearly new T yesterday. Deposit made . Hope I’m not going to miss the performance too much !! Ride was my ch better than how I remembered the 991 GTS

Great news. Welcome to the T club. Pics when it arrives.

Koln-RS said: Porsche don t make it easy, by restricting options that could so easily be added to certain models. My perfect everyday, UK usable 992.2 would be: Coupe Base Model Standard Wheels (19/20 ) and Standard Suspension (optimal ride comfort and ground clearance) Manual Gearbox (not an option) PCCBs (not an option) Sports + Seats Mine would be very similar, not worried about PCCB...... Coupe Base Model Standard Wheels (19/20 ) and Standard Suspension (optimal ride comfort and ground clearance) Manual Gearbox (not an option) Bose Sports Seats I would even have the T, but don't want yet another black interior. I would live with it as I do like the T interior, but if ordering a new car I would really like to be able to chose the interior I really want.

They should offer the S in manual and that open things back up very nicely.

Just offer both gearboxes in all the Carreras and they wouldn't alienate a huge chunk of customers. I think the novelty of PDK/DCT gearboxes has long passed now, as the cars get bigger, more refined, having a bit more interaction that the manual 'boxes offer shouldn't be ignored. Ferrari have even announced a manual for the 12 Cilindri, which tells you they are listening to their customers. Not being able to get a 911 Carrera with a manual gearbox and with an interior you can option to taste is just ridiculous.

Ed.Neumann said: Ferrari have even announced a manual for the 12 Cilindri, which tells you they are listening to their customers. Although that’s not really a manual box, as there is no linkage between the gear lever and the gearbox… it’s basically a “manual” gear lever that replaces the steering wheel paddles and links to the normal DCT box.

But it recognises demand from the market and perhaps others need to open their eyes to that…. I suspect they will.

DoubleSix said: But it recognises demand from the market and perhaps others need to open their eyes to that . I suspect they will. Given the Taycan can now be had with a ‘manual’ transmission, I suspect you’re right.

When I was looking for my manual GTS the Porsche salesmen were all suggesting it was a bad idea as there was very little demand for the manuals and they were hard to sell on. There are only three 992 GTS manuals available on Autotrader, so either they sell fast and are in demand or they’re really really unpopular, even when available as an option.

IMHO the base manual has always been the cream of the crop but I personally think the 997.2 was the last of those with its lovely 6 speed box. Like to see a base again as such What I cannot understand is why so many coupes have the awful glass sunroof fitted? Have to spec that sir or won’t be able to sell on ? Less is more when it comes to a drivers 911

Well for those interested I picked the car up 2 days after putting a deposit down. 5pm. Then drove straight to the eurotunnel for the annual Alps trip with friends. 1800 hard driven miles later I’ve got to know the car a lot more :-) . First the ride as that was what this post was about - it’s great - perfectly judge . Subtle enough to ride the (very) rough back road Alp passes with great composure without being too firm yet never getting unsettled. Only time I engaged the suspension was on the smooth higher speed passes. Can’t believe how different the car is compared to the 991 turbo s. The turn in is crazy compared to the older car - never seems to understeer at all, and really pivots around you much more. So much more front end grip. Gear box is great - just like my old 981 gt4 - total pleasure to use. RWS has moved on a lot since my Turbo S - it’s much much better in this gen. Performance is fine though had trouble keeping a friends hurrican in view now ! Overall the overriding feeling is of a car that’s just had all the elements perfectly balanced - I’m a big fan. Dislikes: TFT main screen . Starter button. Nanny crap. Sunroof buttons back to front Needs a clean now

Nice write up, glad you’re enjoying it!

bosshog said: Well for those interested I picked the car up 2 days after putting a deposit down. 5pm. Then drove straight to the eurotunnel for the annual Alps trip with friends. 1800 hard driven miles later I ve got to know the car a lot more :-) . First the ride as that was what this post was about - it s great - perfectly judge . Subtle enough to ride the (very) rough back road Alp passes with great composure without being too firm yet never getting unsettled. Only time I engaged the suspension was on the smooth higher speed passes. Can t believe how different the car is compared to the 991 turbo s. The turn in is crazy compared to the older car - never seems to understeer at all, and really pivots around you much more. So much more front end grip. Gear box is great - just like my old 981 gt4 - total pleasure to use. RWS has moved on a lot since my Turbo S - it s much much better in this gen. Performance is fine though had trouble keeping a friends hurrican in view now ! Overall the overriding feeling is of a car that s just had all the elements perfectly balanced - I m a big fan. Dislikes: TFT main screen . Starter button. Nanny crap. Sunroof buttons back to front Needs a clean now Excellent stuff, I’m coming up to 18,000 miles in mine (30 months old) and it always feels fresh and rewarding. I am starting to look in earnest at .2 stock now to get a sense of the market for a change in the autumn, from reports I get the feeling that the new car is a subtle improvement on the .1, aside from some details like standard interior, aids and starter button. From what I’m seeing the challenge will be to find a car without a sunroof, something I’d rather not be bothered with, it’s surprising how many new stock cars have it as an option. There’s 7 or 8 new cars being advertised but a few calls reveals a few more in stock and a few in pipeline.

DoubleSix said: Some of the changes in the .2 are rather underreported. Indeed, im yet to read/watch a review that covers them properly the brake upgrade and gearbox was the main thing that pushed me to .2. It s a meaningful change: Power increased from 379 hp to 388 hp. Updated 3.0-litre twin-turbo engine with improved turbochargers (from GTS) and charge-air cooling. 7-speed manual replaced by a 6-speed manual (manual-only; PDK no longer available). Linkage and bushings from GT3. Larger brakes from Carrera S: * Front: 350 mm discs with 6-piston calipers (up from 330 mm / 4-piston). * Rear: 350 mm discs (up from 330 mm). Rear-axle steering is now standard (previously optional). Revised steering calibration with a quicker steering ratio. Retuned PASM Sport suspension. Revised front and rear anti-roll bars. Updated chassis tuning to suit the new steering and rear-axle steering. Revised aerodynamic tuning New standard Carrera S wheel design (20-inch front / 21-inch rear). Matrix LED headlights are standard. Fully digital 12.6-inch instrument cluster replaces the analogue tachometer. Updated PCM infotainment with improved connectivity and wireless charging. Interior lighting pack now standard with full colour array. Traditional ignition twist switch replaced by a push-button start. Walnut gear lever replaces the leather shift knob. New front and rear bumper styling and updated lighting Only the GTS model in the range had more significant changes, with T coming in second. Interesting stuff - thanks - didn't know the full details. It all adds up.

You’re welcome, certainly dispels the view that the T is just a base Carrera witn some options thrown in

Some of the changes in the .2 are rather underreported. Indeed, im yet to read/watch a review that covers them properly the brake upgrade and gearbox was the main thing that pushed me to .2. It s a meaningful change: Power increased from 379 hp to 388 hp. Updated 3.0-litre twin-turbo engine with improved turbochargers (from GTS) and charge-air cooling. 7-speed manual replaced by a 6-speed manual (manual-only; PDK no longer available). Linkage and bushings from GT3. Larger brakes from Carrera S: * Front: 350 mm discs with 6-piston calipers (up from 330 mm / 4-piston). * Rear: 350 mm discs (up from 330 mm). Rear-axle steering is now standard (previously optional). Revised steering calibration with a quicker steering ratio. Retuned PASM Sport suspension. Revised front and rear anti-roll bars. Updated chassis tuning to suit the new steering and rear-axle steering. Revised aerodynamic tuning New standard Carrera S wheel design (20-inch front / 21-inch rear). Matrix LED headlights are standard. Fully digital 12.6-inch instrument cluster replaces the analogue tachometer. Updated PCM infotainment with improved connectivity and wireless charging. Interior lighting pack now standard with full colour array. Traditional ignition twist switch replaced by a push-button start. Walnut gear lever replaces the leather shift knob. New front and rear bumper styling and updated lighting - LSD and PTV as standard - Lightweight glass as standard and reduced sound deadening. Only the GTS model in the range had more significant changes, with T coming in second. Edited by DoubleSix on Thursday 9th July 17:03 Edited by DoubleSix on Thursday 9th July 17:06

Loving ours. We went .1T to .2T. Aside from some early reliability nightmares it’s been a great drive.

DoubleSix said: Some of the changes in the .2 are rather underreported. Indeed, im yet to read/watch a review that covers them properly the brake upgrade and gearbox was the main thing that pushed me to .2. It s a meaningful change: Power increased from 379 hp to 388 hp. Updated 3.0-litre twin-turbo engine with improved turbochargers (from GTS) and charge-air cooling. 7-speed manual replaced by a 6-speed manual (manual-only; PDK no longer available). Linkage and bushings from GT3. Larger brakes from Carrera S: * Front: 350 mm discs with 6-piston calipers (up from 330 mm / 4-piston). * Rear: 350 mm discs (up from 330 mm). Rear-axle steering is now standard (previously optional). Revised steering calibration with a quicker steering ratio. Retuned PASM Sport suspension. Revised front and rear anti-roll bars. Updated chassis tuning to suit the new steering and rear-axle steering. Revised aerodynamic tuning New standard Carrera S wheel design (20-inch front / 21-inch rear). Matrix LED headlights are standard. Fully digital 12.6-inch instrument cluster replaces the analogue tachometer. Updated PCM infotainment with improved connectivity and wireless charging. Interior lighting pack now standard with full colour array. Traditional ignition twist switch replaced by a push-button start. Walnut gear lever replaces the leather shift knob. New front and rear bumper styling and updated lighting - LSD and PTV as standard - Lightweight glass as standard and reduced sound deadening. Only the GTS model in the range had more significant changes, with T coming in second. Edited by DoubleSix on Thursday 9th July 17:03 Edited by DoubleSix on Thursday 9th July 17:06 Thanks for that, I’m really looking forward to judging the changes for myself but appreciate the effort you’ve gone to. Appetite whetted.

bosshog said: Well for those interested I picked the car up 2 days after putting a deposit down. 5pm. Then drove straight to the eurotunnel for the annual Alps trip with friends. 1800 hard driven miles later I ve got to know the car a lot more :-) . First the ride as that was what this post was about - it s great - perfectly judge . Subtle enough to ride the (very) rough back road Alp passes with great composure without being too firm yet never getting unsettled. Only time I engaged the suspension was on the smooth higher speed passes. Can t believe how different the car is compared to the 991 turbo s. The turn in is crazy compared to the older car - never seems to understeer at all, and really pivots around you much more. So much more front end grip. Gear box is great - just like my old 981 gt4 - total pleasure to use. RWS has moved on a lot since my Turbo S - it s much much better in this gen. Performance is fine though had trouble keeping a friends hurrican in view now ! Overall the overriding feeling is of a car that s just had all the elements perfectly balanced - I m a big fan. Dislikes: TFT main screen . Starter button. Nanny crap. Sunroof buttons back to front Needs a clean now Hey, I was definitely interested so thanks for sharing. Sounds like you made a great move! How's that ride feeling now you're back in the UK? Cheers, Rob

Hi Rob, Its a little bit firmer than the Turbo but not by a lot (when not in sports mode), however the body control is much better. I'm not finding it a problem on the bumpy roads around here thus far.

bosshog said: Hi Rob, Its a little bit firmer than the Turbo but not by a lot (when not in sports mode), however the body control is much better. I'm not finding it a problem on the bumpy roads around here thus far. Brilliant - thank you. Many happy miles

992 GTS are far too stiff