991 v 992 prices. What am missing? - Page 5 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Just browsing the classifieds as you do, I am thinking I might upgrade my 997 C2S in 3 years or so when I retire, and I would probably be looking to spend around 70 to 80k. I don't get why some 2012-13 991's are asking high 50-60k, yet the 2019-2020 992's are only an extra 10k. Surely the later model is a no brainer pound for pound? Or am i missing something? I would be open to n/a or turbo, it doesnt bother me particularly, although I suppose I ought to drive a few before deciding on spec.I know there are reliability issues on the turbo cars, whats the general thoughts please?

Not sure about better. Just different.

If you have a 997.2 I would keep it you will regret selling. If it’s a bit tired have a refresh of suspension etc. IMHO the Gen2 997 manual is peak water cooled generation.

You may not care too much about turbo vs N/A but many do. Turbos suck out engine and exhaust noise and change the way that power is delivered so much that they may as well be two completely different models. People who really enjoy the classic flat-six sound and power delivery don't want a turbo, and that's what's keeping 997 and 991.1 prices higher in comparison with 991.2 and 992 prices. It's purely driven by demand. The newer cars look quite similar to the older cars, but in most of the important aspects they offer a very different driving experience. As has been said, you may well regret selling or trading in your 997.

What’s the reason for the change? They’re all quick. They all handle well. If you’re wanting a modern do-it-all sports car then the 992 is a fair step up in terms of being a nice place to sit. They’re objectively better performers - no surprises there. If you want to swap your 997 for something more modern but of a similar ilk, I’d consider Cayman. They’re closer in character to the 997. Your budget will get you a GTS 4.0 or a 981 GTS with change. Both brilliant things. They’re all good choices, but the newer-gen 911s are very different to the 997.

Royal Jelly said: What s the reason for the change? I d consider Cayman. They re closer in character to the 997. Your budget will get you a GTS 4.0 or a 981 GTS with change. Both brilliant things. Oh yes for the lovely 3.8 of the 997.2s how about the 981Gt4 with it s lovely manual shift, proper old school and less than 600 delivered to the UK so prices will remain firm Edited by GT4P on Sunday 12th July 16:12

andrew-494ym said: I would be open to n/a or turbo, it doesnt bother me particularly... This is why you don't get the pricing.

992’s are all wide bodied, so basically have a very fat arse. 991.2 is available with the narrow body. My 991.2 fits in my garage, the 992 doesn't.

GT4P said: If you have a 997.2 I would keep it you will regret selling. If it s a bit tired have a refresh of suspension etc. IMHO the Gen2 997 manual is peak water cooled generation. Mines a 2006 997.1 C2S manual. There was a guy at Anglessy trackday last week in a lovely RS Spyder (Boxster) who came into our garage to say he had a .2 in the same guards red as mine, that he regretted selling.

LunarOne said: You may not care too much about turbo vs N/A but many do. Turbos suck out engine and exhaust noise and change the way that power is delivered so much that they may as well be two completely different models. People who really enjoy the classic flat-six sound and power delivery don't want a turbo, and that's what's keeping 997 and 991.1 prices higher in comparison with 991.2 and 992 prices. It's purely driven by demand. The newer cars look quite similar to the older cars, but in most of the important aspects they offer a very different driving experience. As has been said, you may well regret selling or trading in your 997. Understood, that seems a common theme.

Royal Jelly said: What s the reason for the change? They re all quick. They all handle well. If you re wanting a modern do-it-all sports car then the 992 is a fair step up in terms of being a nice place to sit. They re objectively better performers - no surprises there. If you want to swap your 997 for something more modern but of a similar ilk, I d consider Cayman. They re closer in character to the 997. Your budget will get you a GTS 4.0 or a 981 GTS with change. Both brilliant things. They re all good choices, but the newer-gen 911s are very different to the 997. I would like to do a few european road trips after retirement, I just think the 997 is getting quite old now, I am trying to go thru it and keep on top of the usual issues, but maybe I'm getting a bit soft, and want a bit more insulation and luxury to go with the 911 shape i love.

Ed.Neumann said: This is why you don't get the pricing. So the turbo's are less desirable in your view then?

andrew-494ym said: Mines a 2006 997.1 C2S manual. There was a guy at Anglessy trackday last week in a lovely RS Spyder (Boxster) who came into our garage to say he had a .2 in the same guards red as mine, that he regretted selling. So owning a 997.1 C2S is a lovely car but bore score and ims issues are a worry but can be dealt with but personally I would want to move on from that scenario. So I can see the attraction of upgrading to a 991 or 992 , personally perhaps consider something like a 991.2 T or as previously mentioned a 981GT4 I am of an opinion where I like to avoid early models ie with 991.2 2015/16 and 992.1 2019/20 models as problems always arise during first 18 months of a new models life

andrew-494ym said: I would like to do a few european road trips after retirement, I just think the 997 is getting quite old now, I am trying to go thru it and keep on top of the usual issues, but maybe I'm getting a bit soft, and want a bit more insulation and luxury to go with the 911 shape i love. And there s absolutely nothing wrong with that. As a vehicle for covering miles in pleasant, reliable surroundings the 992 will be superior. Of course, the purists view will not favour the more modern powertrain. I absolutely love a screaming NA, but I made peace with the fact that what i have in the 992 is more suited to my usage these days. No regrets at all. The game has moved on. My game has moved on too In an ideal world i d have both but even then the 992 would be the car id drive most of the time with the 997 (or 991.1 GT3) for the occasional fast blat Edited by DoubleSix on Sunday 12th July 21:00

andrew-494ym said: I would like to do a few european road trips after retirement, I just think the 997 is getting quite old now, I am trying to go thru it and keep on top of the usual issues, but maybe I'm getting a bit soft, and want a bit more insulation and luxury to go with the 911 shape i love. That s entirely fair. I was just checking in to see that you knew that a more modern like-for-like to your 997 would be a 981/718 Cayman; apologies if there was any teachings about sucking eggs! I m a 981S owner. I love it to bits, and for its use case in the UK for Yorkshire country roads on a holiday (I live abroad), it s hard to find something I would rather shop it in for, shy of adding significant cash. I m also waiting delivery of a 992.2 where I live. It ll be a daily and recreational car. Road trips etc.. like you, a modern 911 works so much better for me in that instance. Have a look at the 992 cars - if it s for road trips and a bit of extra comfort, nicer cabin etc.. they re a big step up from the 991. Performance is also a step up, as you’d expect, but that’s not necessarily the crux of the matter. As much as I love the 991, it seems neither fish nor foul in your situation. 991.1 sounds beaut, though. Edited by Royal Jelly on Sunday 12th July 22:06

andrew-494ym said: Royal Jelly said: What s the reason for the change? They re all quick. They all handle well. If you re wanting a modern do-it-all sports car then the 992 is a fair step up in terms of being a nice place to sit. They re objectively better performers - no surprises there. If you want to swap your 997 for something more modern but of a similar ilk, I d consider Cayman. They re closer in character to the 997. Your budget will get you a GTS 4.0 or a 981 GTS with change. Both brilliant things. They re all good choices, but the newer-gen 911s are very different to the 997. I would like to do a few european road trips after retirement, I just think the 997 is getting quite old now, I am trying to go thru it and keep on top of the usual issues, but maybe I'm getting a bit soft, and want a bit more insulation and luxury to go with the 911 shape i love. I’ve had two 997s, and then had a 4.0 Boxster. Suggest you try one of those or a Cayman equivalent, as they’re the same weight and footprint. 991/992 feel noticeably bigger on the road (I also owned a 992). And the 4.0 gave the same power as my 997 GTS, and was NA They’re really fun and easy to drive, and have upgraded electronics without all the nanny stuff that’s been enforced on us lately

Having the model that suits you is probably even more important than the generation. A C2S manual feels different to a Targa 4S PDK or a Turbo S. I really like the drive and engines in the 997, but the 991.2 is a much better cockpit to sit in and has apple carplay. The 992 4S PDK felt closer to my old Taycan 4S, then my much modified 991.2 C2 manual. This may seem like a crazy statement, but I struggle to feel the rear engined dynamic in the 4wd models. Another option would be to invest in your 997. A Hartech 4.1 litre engine rebuild and a set of Ohlins coilovers with new top mounts and control arms could transform the drive.

DoubleSix said: Of course, the purists view will not favour the more modern powertrain. The "purists" tend to be a tedious bunch IMO, stuck in the past and often doing a lot more polishing than driving. There's a good reason you actually see these cars out on the road rather than locked away in a heated garage.

Sounds like you have an answer and there is a 911 for everyone. If you want a comfy GT with a 911 shape go for the newest 911 you can afford (as they get better at that with each iteration). 992 is your choice hands down. Doesn’t mean it’s the right one for everyone but would hit your criteria well.

crystalmethod said: andrew-494ym said: Royal Jelly said: What s the reason for the change? They re all quick. They all handle well. If you re wanting a modern do-it-all sports car then the 992 is a fair step up in terms of being a nice place to sit. They re objectively better performers - no surprises there. If you want to swap your 997 for something more modern but of a similar ilk, I d consider Cayman. They re closer in character to the 997. Your budget will get you a GTS 4.0 or a 981 GTS with change. Both brilliant things. They re all good choices, but the newer-gen 911s are very different to the 997. I would like to do a few european road trips after retirement, I just think the 997 is getting quite old now, I am trying to go thru it and keep on top of the usual issues, but maybe I'm getting a bit soft, and want a bit more insulation and luxury to go with the 911 shape i love. I ve had two 997s, and then had a 4.0 Boxster. Suggest you try one of those or a Cayman equivalent, as they re the same weight and footprint. 991/992 feel noticeably bigger on the road (I also owned a 992). And the 4.0 gave the same power as my 997 GTS, and was NA They re really fun and easy to drive, and have upgraded electronics without all the nanny stuff that s been enforced on us lately Something like this spec will give you a great deal of fun https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch... Obvs final spec will be down to you but you get the general idea....

andrew-494ym said: Ed.Neumann said: This is why you don't get the pricing. So the turbo's are less desirable in your view then? I wouldn't say they are less desirable as such, more the fact that if you want a NA Carrera 911 you have to go back 12 years now, fewer and fewer low milage examples remaining and so they are fetching a premium. I have a rebuilt 997.1 Carrera S, manual coupe, and like you I very nearly swapped it for a 718 Cayman recently, as like you, I was thinking about a few European road trips over the next 3 years and one across North Africa. I like the idea of a much newer car with full Porsche warranty and recovery, especially if in N. Africa. However, after thinking I would swap the 997.1 for a base 718 and then trying an S, and then trying the 4.0 GTS, I came back and drove my 997.1 and realised I would really, really miss it, it does offer something the newer cars have lost. I was thinking I would swap to a Cayman for 3-4 years and then pick up another 997. But the reality is in 3 years time I think my £28k car will probably cost me £45k to replace, and my £65k 4.0GTS will be more like £35k. I then tried a base 991.1 manual, a PDK car, a Carrera S, and the 992.1. Thought if I am going to swap, let's just stick to 911 and do it now. Out of all of those it was the 991.1 3.4 I liked the most, it just seemed to be the best car for road use, it was the most comfortable when cruising round and you could still work it a bit when pressing on, without running out of road every few seconds like in the fast cars. But, I still got back in my 997 and knew I would really, really regret selling it. I decided to keep my 997, get it exactly how I want it, so ordered a DSC Controller, some Eibach springs, sorting the oem shfter out and just enhjoy it. I will then just buy a newer car to sit along side it. Now, if I do that, then yeah, a 991.2 PDK or even a 992 might be the one, a turbo for a more comfortable, easier to use, continent crosser would really appeal. I just don't want it as my fun weekend, euro trip toy. Different cars for different jobs. If you don't care whether you have an NA or not, then take advantage of the fact the newer non NA Carreras are falling quicker in price than the NA cars so you can be a much newer one for the same money. That is what I am going to do.

Wait until you see what the older air cooled are going for! As many have said, a lot of people see value in the last N/A and I do too. With your budget, I would look at the 997.2 GTS.

For a bit more “insulation, luxury and a few European tours”?? I suspect the OPs other half might have a different expectation to some of the posters here…

DoubleSix said: For a bit more insulation, luxury and a few European tours ?? I suspect the OPs other half might have a different expectation to some of the posters here Ah well, thats a whole other subject!

DoubleSix said: For a bit more insulation, luxury and a few European tours ?? I suspect the OPs other half might have a different expectation to some of the posters here Think the Op needs to buy a Jag.

mollytherocker said: DoubleSix said: For a bit more insulation, luxury and a few European tours ?? I suspect the OPs other half might have a different expectation to some of the posters here Ah well, thats a whole other subject! Its the one raised! OP feels his 997 is a bit long in the tooth, is tiring of maintenance risk and looking for something slightly more cosseting and modern for euro tours etc.whilst maintaining the 911 silhouette he loves. OP does not worship at the Mezger alter or sound like a track hound PH says: “buy a slightly more performance oriented version of the old gen you ve already got” Edited by DoubleSix on Monday 13th July 17:04 Edited by DoubleSix on Monday 13th July 17:05

Exactly. I would think a base 992 Carrera would be perfect. Get it with the smaller wheels too, even better. Something like this.... https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202606083... Or this.... https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202510157...

Yeah, it's obvious a 992 will meet your brief. It's valid to point out that you might miss older NA engines, but I don't think it will be a big deal for you. Go book a test drive, and you'll know right away. Those ventilated seats will do well in the south of France...

I would go for the 992. It looks great, has all the modern stuff (some of which you don’t want of course), goes hard, etc. I see no point in the 991 tbh unless there is a substantial saving to be had. The 997 analogue feel is gone with both 991 and 992 so not sure why you would bother with the middle step and not just go for the latest that you can afford.

992 of your choice from an OPC with a nice 2 year warranty and assistance. Peace of mind.

DMZ said: I would go for the 992. It looks great, has all the modern stuff (some of which you don t want of course), goes hard, etc. I see no point in the 991 tbh unless there is a substantial saving to be had. The 997 analogue feel is gone with both 991 and 992 so not sure why you would bother with the middle step and not just go for the latest that you can afford. That’s the conclusion i came to… started out looking at 991.1 (cos NA!!) but quickly realised it was in no mans land. Neither full old skool nor modern enough. People often don’t credit just what a massive leap the 992 is dynamically. The turn in is frankly astonishing, ride delightfully judged and torque from the off… The interior is finally worthy of the brand too.

wax lyrical said: Think the Op needs to buy a Jag. Hehe, not quite that decrepit yet!

Ed.Neumann said: Exactly. I would think a base 992 Carrera would be perfect. Get it with the smaller wheels too, even better. Something like this.... https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202606083... Or this.... https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202510157... Yep the 2nd one is lovely, I do like a non black interior, 380bhp is plenty i suppose, even tho it will be a fair bit heavier than the 997. Have the turbo issues been sorted with these now?

The misses will love this, a bit left field but a great continental cruiser https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/search/911?mod...

Thanks for all the tips guys, I didnt expect so many replies. Re some suggesting the cayman, I know they are great sports cars. My neighbour has a 4.0 GTS with low miles he may be selling soon due to lack of use. I just can't bring myself to like them. (Except the GT4) I cant put my finger on why. I guess its just not a 911. I seem to be drawn to the 992T but I think it aint going in my single garage, as my 997 is a tight fit in there. I quite fancy a wild colour, the bright greens and yellows look amazing to me, but I would need to find one with a non black interior, they depress me.

GT4P said: The misses will love this, a bit left field but a great continental cruiser https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/search/911?mod... Sorry, soft tops are not for me. She might approve, but its not happening. I wouldnt mind a sunroof next time, but deffo a coupe.

andrew-494ym said: Sorry, soft tops are not for me. She might approve, but its not happening. I wouldnt mind a sunroof next time, but deffo a coupe. For reference, my last toy was a caged kit car. She hated it. She's not keen on noisy raw cars, I can get away with driving quick if its in something quiet and comfortable. (relatively speaking)

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20136755 love that colour, and I could live with the interior even tho its mainly black.

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20736446 This is one of my favourite colours too.

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20375345 And finally, I would even consider this colour too!

andrew-494ym said: Yep the 2nd one is lovely, I do like a non black interior, 380bhp is plenty i suppose, even tho it will be a fair bit heavier than the 997. Have the turbo issues been sorted with these now? Not as much in that weight difference as you might think...

andrew-494ym said: Thanks for all the tips guys, I didnt expect so many replies. Re some suggesting the cayman, I know they are great sports cars. My neighbour has a 4.0 GTS with low miles he may be selling soon due to lack of use. I just can't bring myself to like them. (Except the GT4) I cant put my finger on why. I guess its just not a 911. I wasn't saying buy a Cayman, I was saying for my planned euro trips a fairly new 718 with warranty and recovery was tempting as I was pretty much doing a swap for the 997. But that soon led me to look at 991's, and then 992's. I was sort of pointing out that the newer FI cars were depreciating still while the low milage minty fresh NA 991's were now going up if anything, so take advantage. andrew-494ym said: I seem to be drawn to the 992T but I think it aint going in my single garage, as my 997 is a tight fit in there. I quite fancy a wild colour, the bright greens and yellows look amazing to me, but I would need to find one with a non black interior, they depress me. Yet you link to a 992 Carrera T in viper green? Nice, like your style. Squeeze it in.

DoubleSix said: andrew-494ym said: Yep the 2nd one is lovely, I do like a non black interior, 380bhp is plenty i suppose, even tho it will be a fair bit heavier than the 997. Have the turbo issues been sorted with these now? Not as much in that weight difference as you might think... I don't think most people realise the 991 is lighter than the 997 like for like either.

andrew-494ym said: Thanks for all the tips guys, I didnt expect so many replies. Re some suggesting the cayman, I know they are great sports cars. My neighbour has a 4.0 GTS with low miles he may be selling soon due to lack of use. I just can't bring myself to like them. (Except the GT4) I cant put my finger on why. I guess its just not a 911. I seem to be drawn to the 992T but I think it aint going in my single garage, as my 997 is a tight fit in there. I quite fancy a wild colour, the bright greens and yellows look amazing to me, but I would need to find one with a non black interior, they depress me. All 992 are the same widebody now, with the exception of GT and Turbos. So if you're worried about a 992T fitting, it's time to get the measuring tape out... Additionally, if you are drawn to a 992T, I'd urge you to stretch to a 992.2 for lots of reasons i wont bore you with right now.

Ed.Neumann said: I don't think most people realise the 991 is lighter than the 997 like for like either. Really? That is a surprise.

DoubleSix said: All 992 are the same widebody now, with the exception of GT and Turbos. So if you're worried about a 992T fitting, it's time to get the measuring tape out... Additionally, if you are drawn to a 992T, I'd urge you to stretch to a 992.2 for lots of reasons i wont bore you with right now. Go on, bore me....

997.2 Carrera S Coupe: 1,425 kg Manual 992.2 Carrera T 1,478 kg to 1,490 kg

andrew-494ym said: DoubleSix said: All 992 are the same widebody now, with the exception of GT and Turbos. So if you're worried about a 992T fitting, it's time to get the measuring tape out... Additionally, if you are drawn to a 992T, I'd urge you to stretch to a 992.2 for lots of reasons i wont bore you with right now. Go on, bore me.... I'll quote myself from another thread... Some of the changes in the .2 are rather underreported. Indeed, im yet to read/watch a review that covers them properly the brake upgrade and gearbox was the main thing that pushed me to .2. It s a meaningful change: Power increased from 379 hp to 388 hp. Updated 3.0-litre twin-turbo engine with improved turbochargers (from GTS) and charge-air cooling. 7-speed manual replaced by a 6-speed manual (manual-only; PDK no longer available). Linkage and bushings from GT3. Larger brakes from Carrera S: Front: 350 mm discs with 6-piston calipers (up from 330 mm / 4-piston). Rear: 350 mm discs (up from 330 mm). Rear-axle steering is now standard (previously optional). LSD and PTV as standard - Lightweight glass as standard and reduced sound deadening. Revised steering calibration with a quicker steering ratio. Retuned PASM Sport suspension. Revised front and rear anti-roll bars. Updated chassis tuning to suit the new steering and rear-axle steering. Revised aerodynamic tuning New standard Carrera S wheel design (20-inch front / 21-inch rear). Matrix LED headlights are standard. Fully digital 12.6-inch instrument cluster replaces the analogue tachometer. Updated PCM infotainment with improved connectivity and wireless charging. Interior lighting pack now standard with full colour array. Traditional ignition twist switch replaced by a push-button start. Walnut gear lever replaces the leather shift knob. New front and rear bumper styling and updated lighting - Only the GTS model in the range had more significant changes for the .2 update, with T coming in second.

DoubleSix said: I'll quote myself from another thread... Some of the changes in the .2 are rather underreported. Indeed, im yet to read/watch a review that covers them properly the brake upgrade and gearbox was the main thing that pushed me to .2. It s a meaningful change: Power increased from 379 hp to 388 hp. Updated 3.0-litre twin-turbo engine with improved turbochargers (from GTS) and charge-air cooling. 7-speed manual replaced by a 6-speed manual (manual-only; PDK no longer available). Linkage and bushings from GT3. Larger brakes from Carrera S: Front: 350 mm discs with 6-piston calipers (up from 330 mm / 4-piston). Rear: 350 mm discs (up from 330 mm). Rear-axle steering is now standard (previously optional). LSD and PTV as standard - Lightweight glass as standard and reduced sound deadening. Revised steering calibration with a quicker steering ratio. Retuned PASM Sport suspension. Revised front and rear anti-roll bars. Updated chassis tuning to suit the new steering and rear-axle steering. Revised aerodynamic tuning New standard Carrera S wheel design (20-inch front / 21-inch rear). Matrix LED headlights are standard. Fully digital 12.6-inch instrument cluster replaces the analogue tachometer. Updated PCM infotainment with improved connectivity and wireless charging. Interior lighting pack now standard with full colour array. Traditional ignition twist switch replaced by a push-button start. Walnut gear lever replaces the leather shift knob. New front and rear bumper styling and updated lighting - Only the GTS model in the range had more significant changes for the .2 update, with T coming in second. Thank you, not bored at all...

DoubleSix said: 997.2 Carrera S Coupe: 1,425 kg Manual 992.2 Carrera T 1,478 kg to 1,490 kg Porsche 991.1 Carrera (3.4L) manual coupe 1,380 kg (3,042 lbs) Porsche 997.1 Carrera (3.6L) manual coupe 1,395 kg (3,075 lbs)

Yet how many times have you heard people claim the newer 911s are all lardy lumps?? Opinions < Facts

DoubleSix said: Yet how many times have you heard people claim the newer 911s are all lardy lumps?? Opinions < Facts Width is the same too at 71.2". The 991 sits lower, only a tiny bit, but the design makes it look lower and thus wider. Of course the 992 is wider, but it is only 1.7" wider. The way people talk you would think it is a few inches.

Koln-RS said: DoubleSix said: Yet how many times have you heard people claim the newer 911s are all lardy lumps?? Opinions < Facts The Porsche 992.2 GTS weighs c.1,650kg - 1,700kg. That s a heavy 911. Which isn’t selling. Bit of edge case you are citing there… The rest of the range are surprisingly close to previous generations in weight, which is the broader point.

Ed.Neumann said: DoubleSix said: 997.2 Carrera S Coupe: 1,425 kg Manual 992.2 Carrera T 1,478 kg to 1,490 kg Porsche 991.1 Carrera (3.4L) manual coupe 1,380 kg (3,042 lbs) Porsche 997.1 Carrera (3.6L) manual coupe 1,395 kg (3,075 lbs) And yet the lightest C2 available in the last 40 years is the one that everybody slates, the 996.1

If your paying nearly £80k for a high mileage 6 year old car imo better off paying the extra £10k for half the age and 2-3 times less mileage, something like this https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch...

GT4P said: If your paying nearly £80k for a high mileage 6 year old car imo better off paying the extra £10k for half the age and 2-3 times less mileage, something like this https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch... Nice example you've found. I appreciate it's subjective, but I find this and most 'modern' 911s very boring. You could buy a lot of interesting cars for £90k?

marrow said: Nice example you've found. I appreciate it's subjective, but I find this and most 'modern' 911s very boring. You could buy a lot of interesting cars for £90k? Agree with you on this one in particular. Grey with black leather just doesn't do anything for me. In a bright colour and red leather however.....

Having driven most variants of 992, I would say that for the road, there is not much in it. You cant go that quick on the road! I weighed my 992 C2 with half a tank of fuel and the result was 1,465kgs, 3,229lbs. That's not bad. My old 996 was 1,345 kg (2,959 lbs). The 996 was a very quick car, the 992 is significantly quicker.

I'd certainly drive a few and decide where you think your money best serves. I have a 991.2 GTS and I was (and am, to some extent) browsing 992.1 GTSs but... I've known people to go back from 992 to 991 based on the size alone; even if the interior is supposedly nicer (I'm on the fence as I like the 991). I used to have a 993... I'd go back to that if, financially, it made any sense! Anyway, now I tend to look at 991.2 GT3s instead, just because I want that howl.

willisit said: I'd certainly drive a few and decide where you think your money best serves. I have a 991.2 GTS and I was (and am, to some extent) browsing 992.1 GTSs but... I've known people to go back from 992 to 991 based on the size alone; even if the interior is supposedly nicer (I'm on the fence as I like the 991). I used to have a 993... I'd go back to that if, financially, it made any sense! Anyway, now I tend to look at 991.2 GT3s instead, just because I want that howl. I love the 991 gt3 look and noise too, but doubt its suitability for a euro trip. I will keep an eye on the market, and yes I will test drive a few models nearer the time.

andrew-494ym said: Agree with you on this one in particular. Grey with black leather just doesn't do anything for me. In a bright colour and red leather however..... Big fan of Agate grey, but what I was doing was showing is it s better value buying something few years old over a more leggy older car. If you was in the market a few months ago there was a beautiful 992.1 C4S in guards red I think it was a 24 plate and about 5k miles for low 90s at an OPC

GT4P said: Big fan of Agate grey, but what I was doing was showing is it s better value buying something few years old over a more leggy older car. If you was in the market a few months ago there was a beautiful 992.1 C4S in guards red I think it was a 24 plate and about 5k miles for low 90s at an OPC Yes i understand your point, and I agree, you get more bang for buck with a 2 0r 3 year old low miler than a ten year old leggy car.

I'm no 911 aficionado but I went to my bro' in law's place yesterday. He beckoned me into his garage, where I was surprised to see that his cherished black 997 Turbo Gen 2 that had lived there for years had gone. In its place stood a '71 plate 992 Gen 1 Carrera 4. Two things struck me: the Crayon colour is gorgeous, and there was noticeably less space available between the car and garage wall. I had to be far more careful getting in the car than I did with his 997. I'd describe the 992 as pleasingly buxom but those rear arches certainly are wide. A lovely thing though.

Although the 997 Turbo and 992 (non Turbo) are both the same width. I suspect the latter is wider at the front.

Is it possible to get any deals/cash off a 992.2 (new base carrera) at the dealers? Anyone got any recent experience, or is it just list price and thats what you pay.

There is a thread on this

matt3001 said: Is it possible to get any deals/cash off a 992.2 (new base carrera) at the dealers? Anyone got any recent experience, or is it just list price and thats what you pay. I got offered £5k off list for a new order (after haggling), but you're looking at £25-30k off for a delivery miles car they have in the showroom...

DoubleSix said: I got offered £5k off list for a new order (after haggling), but you're looking at £25-30k off for a delivery miles car they have in the showroom... Interesting……is that £25k off the price they’re advertised at or is that already factored into the price (I’ve no idea what list price is now)? I’d seen a nice 992.2 S at £125k and £20k off that price would bring it into budget!

Crumpet said: DoubleSix said: I got offered £5k off list for a new order (after haggling), but you're looking at £25-30k off for a delivery miles car they have in the showroom... Interesting is that £25k off the price they re advertised at or is that already factored into the price (I ve no idea what list price is now)? I d seen a nice 992.2 S at £125k and £20k off that price would bring it into budget! £25k off what it was in the configurator for the first guy/dealership. So, say a Jan 2026 or late 2025 car was specced to £130k, has 500 miles on the clock or is just pre-registered and dealership is now looking for £112k as an auc... it's not unrealistic for you to negotiate them down to say 105-107K from there. You've ducked the showroom tax, have the balance of warranty and yourself a bargain imho, as long as you can find a car close to your ideal spec. Lots of other factors of course. Edited by DoubleSix on Wednesday 15th July 16:40

I know it’s not always ideal but best deals are to be had end of year and for an even better deal is when a new model comes out and they have lots of new pre registration old models with delivery miles

DoubleSix said: £25k off what it was in the configurator for the first guy/dealership. So, say a Jan 2026 or late 2025 car was specced to £130k, has 500 miles on the clock or is just pre-registered and dealership is now looking for £112k as an auc... it's not unrealistic for you to negotiate them down to say 105-107K from there. You've ducked the showroom tax, have the balance of warranty and yourself a bargain imho, as long as you can find a car close to your ideal spec. Lots of other factors of course. Edited by DoubleSix on Wednesday 15th July 16:40 Gotcha. I was considering moving my ‘23 GTS on and trying an S but it’s so rare to find one with a spec I’d want and I would imagine any desirable spec sells pretty swiftly anyway. Cant believe how few people spec light coloured interiors, ventilated seats or heated steering wheels!

Try to avoid PEC cars! Difficult to spot. I have driven a few at Silverstone, not sure I would want to invest £100k into one after 600 consecutive launches over 500 miles.

I m a fan of the ventilated seats but i guess its a fairly pricey luxury option Never been fussed about heated steering wheel and will probably never even press the button now i have it Agree lighter interiors are nice but you can understand why people dont spec them Ntl, the strategy above works well with heavily specced cars so just start watching the matket via the porsche app iiwy Edited by DoubleSix on Wednesday 15th July 18:38

Crumpet said: Gotcha. I was considering moving my 23 GTS on and trying an S but it s so rare to find one with a spec I d want and I would imagine any desirable spec sells pretty swiftly anyway. Cant believe how few people spec light coloured interiors, ventilated seats or heated steering wheels! Heated steering wheel became standard kit on all 911s from 992.2

I don’t know if this helps but to me a 991.1 is Goldilocks which hasn’t been replaced since. Naturally aspirated, manual, RWD, big enough to fit me at 6’4”, can do a trackday on Saturday and the family to church on Sunday. Nothing else matches that description. Older cars are too small. 991.2 are all turbo unless you go GT3 but not comfortable with the insurance implications of after market rear seats and belts. I think N/A, manual and size drives price. I also think the 991 design is less “fussy” than 992, but I’m happy to be told I’m wrong on that account. I aim to keep mine till I gift it to my son.

I 8 a 4RE said: I don t know if this helps but to me a 991.1 is Goldilocks which hasn t been replaced since. Naturally aspirated, manual, RWD, big enough to fit me at 6 4 , can do a trackday on Saturday and the family to church on Sunday. Nothing else matches that description. Older cars are too small. 991.2 are all turbo unless you go GT3 but not comfortable with the insurance implications of after market rear seats and belts. I think N/A, manual and size drives price. I also think the 991 design is less fussy than 992, but I m happy to be told I m wrong on that account. I aim to keep mine till I gift it to my son. Great thing about 911s is that there is a perfect car amongst them for everyone and your son is a lucky lad! I thought my 991.1S was my Goldilocks car until I was tempted out of it and into a 992.1 GTS. For my needs and usage the 992 is better in every way bar the noise, the GTS sounds good but is muted slightly by the turbos however for me it’s pretty much bang on. I love the design of both but wouldn’t go back to a 991 and while my 991 was narrow bodied, 992s aren’t much bigger in reality (there’s about a million threads already debating this). Price wise I’d say that apart from a few specials within each range, 992s will probably track slightly higher than 991s but I’m no expert.

I 8 a 4RE said: I don t know if this helps but to me a 991.1 is Goldilocks which hasn t been replaced since. Naturally aspirated, manual, RWD, big enough to fit me at 6 4 , can do a trackday on Saturday and the family to church on Sunday. Nothing else matches that description. Older cars are too small. 991.2 are all turbo unless you go GT3 but not comfortable with the insurance implications of after market rear seats and belts. I think N/A, manual and size drives price. I also think the 991 design is less fussy than 992, but I m happy to be told I m wrong on that account. I aim to keep mine till I gift it to my son. Interesting, which model do you have please?

Based on your criteria (upgrading to something more modern to do Euro trips) I would say the 992 is your best bet. This offers the biggest change from the 997. Personally, I went for a 991.1 but it is a second car and I was particularly after that middle ground of N/A engine but modern and comfortable enough for a 6 ft 4" driver to tour Europe. The car has been amazing and I absolutely love it. Initially I was going to have a 911 as my only car in which case I was looking at 992s. As you state, prices of top 991.1s and early 992s do now overlap. Being the last non GT N/A does seem to add to the cache. Lots of online content pointing to the 991.1 GTS as a car rising in desirability.

I 8 a 4RE said: I don t know if this helps but to me a 991.1 is Goldilocks which hasn t been replaced since. Naturally aspirated, manual, RWD, big enough to fit me at 6 4 , can do a trackday on Saturday and the family to church on Sunday. Nothing else matches that description. Older cars are too small. 991.2 are all turbo unless you go GT3 but not comfortable with the insurance implications of after market rear seats and belts. I think N/A, manual and size drives price. I also think the 991 design is less fussy than 992, but I m happy to be told I m wrong on that account. I aim to keep mine till I gift it to my son. The actual Goldilocks 991.1 Gts. Manual rear wheel drive coupe. PTS Lime Gold Metallic with ducktail aero kit.. Is this peak 991.1? Edited by M666LMJ on Friday 17th July 22:48

M666LMJ said: The actual Goldilocks 991.1 Gts. Manual rear wheel drive coupe. PTS Lime Gold Metallic with ducktail aero kit.. Is this peak 991.1? Edited by M666LMJ on Friday 17th July 22:48 Yes I agree. 991.1 GTS manual coupe is peak 911 for me. I specced this when new and OPC Reading basically laughed me out the room saying there would be no resale value. I wish I had. To answer the other question: 991.1 C2S, manual, racing yellow, ducktail and front aero. Black interior … with child seats =P

I 8 a 4RE said: Yes I agree. 991.1 GTS manual coupe is peak 911 for me. I specced this when new and OPC Reading basically laughed me out the room saying there would be no resale value. I wish I had. To answer the other question: 991.1 C2S, manual, racing yellow, ducktail and front aero. Black interior with child seats =P Did they suggest opting for grey, with PDK, a sunroof, various bits of random colour coding, a roof lining that you’ll never look at, supplemented by a few bits of tech that would guarantee that you’d regularly be attending for warranty work?

Maxus said: I went for a 991.1 but it is a second car and I was particularly after that middle ground of N/A engine but modern and comfortable enough for a 6 ft 4" driver to tour Europe. The car has been amazing and I absolutely love it. I did the same - for the same reasons. I've just come back from nearly a month in Provence, perfect car for it.

NDA said: Maxus said: I went for a 991.1 but it is a second car and I was particularly after that middle ground of N/A engine but modern and comfortable enough for a 6 ft 4" driver to tour Europe. The car has been amazing and I absolutely love it. I did the same - for the same reasons. I've just come back from nearly a month in Provence, perfect car for it. Lucky you, wonderful area and a perfect car for it. Mine is my first Porsche (although had it a couple of years now). Within a week of ownership I was driving off the Eurotunnel heading South. My wife had in mind it was going to be an uncomfortable journey (being a sports car). Found it very comfortable. I guess this reflects the GT nature of the newer cars.

Maxus said: Mine is my first Porsche (although had it a couple of years now). Within a week of ownership I was driving off the Eurotunnel heading South. My wife had in mind it was going to be an uncomfortable journey (being a sports car). Found it very comfortable. I guess this reflects the GT nature of the newer cars. The difference is French roads. Many of the earlier comments in this thread about harsh ride, on some models, and intrusive road noise, are more specific to the UK’s poor roads. In the main French roads are infinitely better engineered and maintained, with smoother low-noise asphalt, less traffic (July/Aug excepting) and beautiful scenery. Almost any car feels better in this environment, which is why so many manufacturers launch their new cars here.

NDA said: Maxus said: I went for a 991.1 but it is a second car and I was particularly after that middle ground of N/A engine but modern and comfortable enough for a 6 ft 4" driver to tour Europe. The car has been amazing and I absolutely love it. I did the same - for the same reasons. I've just come back from nearly a month in Provence, perfect car for it. I've just got a 991.1, it's a third car with 2 x EVs in the household (and before that a quick turbocharged BMW), and for me my strong preference was for a NA engine and manual box as an antidote to modern EV's/turbo auto cars. I wanted something that needed work to get the best out of it and provided a flat 6 howl at higher engine speeds, and it certainly delivers that. It's a base 3.4 and doesn't feel very quick in regular driving, but above 5k it sings. I tried a 991.2 and early 992 and liked them both, more usable power and better everyday cars no question.

JackReacher said: NDA said: Maxus said: I went for a 991.1 but it is a second car and I was particularly after that middle ground of N/A engine but modern and comfortable enough for a 6 ft 4" driver to tour Europe. The car has been amazing and I absolutely love it. I did the same - for the same reasons. I've just come back from nearly a month in Provence, perfect car for it. I've just got a 991.1, it's a third car with 2 x EVs in the household (and before that a quick turbocharged BMW), and for me my strong preference was for a NA engine and manual box as an antidote to modern EV's/turbo auto cars. I wanted something that needed work to get the best out of it and provided a flat 6 howl at higher engine speeds, and it certainly delivers that. It's a base 3.4 and doesn't feel very quick in regular driving, but above 5k it sings. I tried a 991.2 and early 992 and liked them both, more usable power and better everyday cars no question. Snap! Our other cars are a 640d and an M240i. Both are much easier to make progress in without any effort (and suprisingly quick) but neither offers the excitement of the N/A when you get the revs up.

JackReacher said: I've just got a 991.1, it's a third car with 2 x EVs in the household (and before that a quick turbocharged BMW), and for me my strong preference was for a NA engine and manual box as an antidote to modern EV's/turbo auto cars. I wanted something that needed work to get the best out of it and provided a flat 6 howl at higher engine speeds, and it certainly delivers that. It's a base 3.4 and doesn't feel very quick in regular driving, but above 5k it sings. I've had many faster cars than my 991.1 - but I enjoy the Jeykll & Hyde nature of the 3.8. It certainly feels quick enough when pushed, but quite sedate for cruising around. I also think 400bhp feels about right for UK driving these days, for me at least.

I think there are various factors involved: NA engine (for .1) For the 991.1 a lot of people like the NA engine. The GTS in particular is very strong money. It also sounds better than the 3 litre turbos. The 991.1 Carrera / S / GTS models are some of the best sounding 911s outside GT3 models. Interior (for both) The 991.1 and .2 have the classic dials. With the 992.1 only the rev counter is physical and the wheel blocks the outer dials. 991.2 has CarPlay, camera and other modern "nice to haves". Turbo issues (for .1) 991.1 escapes these (obviously this does not apply for .2) Looks (for both) The size difference is minimal but the 992 looks 'heavier'. For me the 991.2, with the central PSE is the peak for Carrera (other than going back to pre 996).

As a rule of thumb, each new generation of the ‘911’ is an ‘improvement’ on its predecessor. However, each new evolution also loses some of the original 911’s DNA and unique character. The earlier the 911, the truer it is to the original concept, the later it is, the more it appeals to a broader market - more user friendly, more tech, creature comforts, driver aids, and power ….. but often bigger and heavier (the 911’s worst enemy). A Porsche 992.2GTS, for example, only really shares its layout and some subtle design cues with, say, a ‘73 2.4’S’. Looking at the 991, both the .1 NA and .2 Turbo engines have their merits. Both have the 7spd Manual gearbox option. However, it was newly introduced on the 991.1 and the gear change came in for quite a lot of criticism at the time. This was definitely improved by the 991.2, but not sure exactly when.

Going back to your original question about why 991s are close in value to 992's. Put simply they are not that expensive to buy new for what you get, but they are relatively expensive to buy when they are old and second hand. Its always been like that as far as I can remember. The depreciation curve on a 911 is relatively flat - for a sub £250,000 non-super car (although what makes a supercar these days I am not so sure about). A 2006 997 is still £25k second hand in 2026. It was around £64k new in C2 trim. That is pretty shallow depreciation, especially when you consider £64k in 2006 adjusted for inflation is £120,000 in 2026. So at £105,000, a brand new 992.2 C2 is actually cheaper in 2026 than it was in 2006 in real terms. So get a new one I say, at least you will know where its been and have a cast iron warranty, even if you have to finance a little bit. And it will be NEW.

Geneve said: As a rule of thumb, each new generation of the 911 is an improvement on its predecessor. However, each new evolution also loses some of the original 911 s DNA and unique character. The earlier the 911, the truer it is to the original concept, the later it is, the more it appeals to a broader market - more user friendly, more tech, creature comforts, driver aids, and power .. but often bigger and heavier (the 911 s worst enemy). A Porsche 992.2GTS, for example, only really shares its layout and some subtle design cues with, say, a 73 2.4 S . . And some where in the middle of all 911 models is the 997.2 which in manual form is imho and others peak modern 911, hence the crazy prices of the 997.2RS a 2.7 RS for our times?

BuyaDuster said: So get a new one I say, at least you will know where its been and have a cast iron warranty, even if you have to finance a little bit. And it will be NEW. All true - however for those of us with (for example) a 991.1 CS, there's not that much of a difference in performance by buying new - plus, you get the pleasure of NA and a more analogue cabin. New prices are also quite lumpy - mine would be around £150k, which focusses the mind.

991 prices are through the roof. Dealers still asking well north of £50k for low miles cars from 2012. These weren’t low volume like 993. I thought 997 values were strong but 991 has really pushed those aside now.