IMS Solution

Hi all, I have been quoted approx 5k for a IMS solution replacement. Does this sound reasonable? Note it is for the LN solution, not just bearing retrofit. Also, what should I expect to pay to have RMS, clutch + fluids done at the same time? Looks like I should be budgeting about 7k total? Seems steep for a car I paid 40k for... any suggestions are welcomed. Thanks.

Which model do you have?

Sounds about right. I had solution and RMS done and it was somewhere around the $5k mark. The price of doing it is why you only had to pay $40k for your car!

You can buy a roller for $30k but an air filter still costs you $2k. It's more about the original  RRP not your buy price, you should gauge the value I reckon... what car & model r we talkin'?

that sounds WAY to expensive. Once you drop the gearbox its right there... If you have a 1997-1999 Porsche 0996 you possibly have the dual row. Which are pretty reliable aslong as you keep the service up to date.

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1998 model 996 the solution itself is 1.7k USD. So basically I have been quoted 2.5k of labour i am guessing https://lnengineering.com/products/featured/ims-solution-for-single-row-ims-my97-01.html

so let me ask you, why do you need to do your IMS. 1998 models like mine came with a dual row IMS which are pretty much the best ones.

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Didnt know the 98s were the best, i actually though they may have been one of the worst effected for IMS. Reason I am looking into this is I recently took my car for a service and there is some oil leaking from around the RMS. Mechanic suggested I change the seal, i figured might as well do IMS at the same time. There were no metal shavings in the oil filter nor do i have any other IMS symptoms

A new ims bearing would be cheaper and good for 60k klms so if you not keeping it forever maybe consider that approach.

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Correct. If you're hanging onto the car for a while you may as well do it now. Can be a selling point to a buyer in the future knowing it's been done

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i did mention this to the mechanic and he said dont waste ur time/money on this. I dont plan to keep the car beyond 50k kms...

Do a search on the matter. Heaps to boggle your mind if you don't read between the lines. Some good threads on here with useful links.

After countless hours of reading on the subject, I decided on my 99 the IMS bearing wasn't worth worrying about. The early dual rows appear to have about a 1% failure rate compared to about 5% (I think) for the later single rows. The way the car has been driven appears to play a role, they don't like to be babied, spirited driving and high engine speed is better. So the revvier 3.4 may be helping the early cars. Tiptronics may also be more prone than manuals and this again may be due to the higher engine speeds in the manual (if driven as intended). In other words if you have an early 3.4 manual with a decent amount of k's that doesn't look like a show car, in my opinion you have nothing to worry about with the IMS bearing. Nor would I be worrying about a slight weep from the RMS. If you/the PO used Mobil1 you might want to try changing to Penrite HPR5 5W 40, it stopped the light weeping on my RMS. Unless your clutch is on the way out and/or the RMS is dripping, I would leave alone. Instead, if you're getting fluids done anyway have them check your cam deviation, variocam pad wear on the early 5 chain 3.4 is a much more worthwhile thing to worry about than IMS bearing failure, in my opinion.

I had my 187k kms dual row IMS yanked and replaced earlier this year (engine had to come out anyway for variocam solenoid replacement and new brake lines over engine so it was relatively cheap).  It was as good as new. Not sure I did the right thing replacing it because of the Waddington Effect

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This sounds like the correct way to proceed to me. With such a low failure rate it means that lots are going good distances, also the replacement "solutions" have a much shorter lifespan than the original bearing. There seems to be a lot of noise in the US about it, so I wonder if very cold conditions have an impact? I agree that with such a low failure rate external forces/ conditions must come into play.

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The rms seems to be dripping slightly, i would estimate about a drop every few days... i will try penrite next time see if this helps. Looks like the consenus is to leave the bearings until there is some cause for concern. Appreciate the insight all.

5k is fine and about right, i'd probably do it when the clutch is going and do both at the same time. Depends on you and how risk adverse you are, i did it as a precaution and i hope to keep the car for awhile, and it's a good selling point anyway. You probably don't have to go the whole hog, but the labor here is so expensive anyway you might as well. Mine's single row, and when it came out it looks fine to me, however in the other ims thread, someone took theirs and he felt like it's on the way out.

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Good to hear Avon. Did they check/replace the variocam pads when they did the solenoid? I think Yangin is talking about the 'IMS Solution' which is a plain bearing, the designer of said bearing gets very upset when people refer to his design along with all the other 'solutions'. And I have to admit it does appear to be the best way to go if all the IMS bearing talk is making your bowels quiver. Not sure if the cold has any impact on precipitating IMS bearing failure, perhaps more so bore scoring.

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No - apparently they were just fine.  Mechanic couldn't contact me so it was their decision.  As they know more than me I have to trust their judgement

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That's good to hear too. Interesting to know if they're the originals or have been replaced at some stage. Any record of prior replacement?

I like this waddington guy, What he says is true.

IMO all IMS bearings are going to fail. It will be just dumb luck if it happens to you either while in Warranty or if you sell the car before it happens. You cannot properly gauge the wear on the IMS bearing unless you cut it open (& destroy it) to inspect. It is silly to not replace it whenever there is an opportunity.

Sorry Zelrik911, but do you have any documentation supporting the claim that all IMS bearings will fail. I'd be interested in reading more on it.

There was a bloke here on the forum who to and fro'd with replacing his IMS - meanwhile, his suffered catastrophic failure and a massive hit to the back pocket. You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.. When I bought my 996 (I was shopping with around 40k) I factored in the IMS and clutch replacement for absolute piece of mind, so my end budget was actually closer to 50k.  18 months ago I was reckoning on 7k for IMS Solution and clutch, so your quote sounds reasonable enough..  As it turned out I happened on a car with all having recently being done.  I wouldn't have not had / got a car without the upgrade.  Good insurance, and as mentioned helps resale down the line. Wrestle with those demons and good luck.!

yeh in the end it's the risk you're willing to take on, the only numbers out there are something like 5% for 996.2's and 1% for 996.1s from that class action in US, (and that's only america with a different range of fuels/climate/oils etc.) I would probably say it isn't a sure-fail part, but i would say it isn't the strongest part of the engine. Also i reckon that most that would've failed, would've failed by now. I'm similar to Woka, factored the cost in when i was buying, and wanted to do the clutch anyway, so was a good time. My total was 8.5k with clutch/engine mounts/rms and ims solution.  UK car was a touch harder to work on and i'm in WA, and everything is more exp in WA.

Thanks for the advice. I think I will be replacing bearings when RMS is replaced. Sounds like I need to also do some research on Variocam/solenoids...

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Hah, great job James, I love the song

This video is the very best explanation of the IMS featuring Jake Raby who invented the IMS solution: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i14LKvAW-So The last time I read the IMS page on the Autohaus Hamilton website there were some inconsistencies, not sure if its been updated.

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Ok, so it's clear now the 01's to 05's are the ticking timebombs, tick tick tick tick, get those bearings done just in case fellas. Declaring both my 2000 runny egg mobiles are now worth more than goggle-eyed 6.2'S

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Unless you've replaced the bearing in your 6.2's!!

No need to -- though the donk had the bearing changed prior to purchase while the clutch was done. I do sleep well at night.

There's plenty of conjecture about failure rates of IMS but is there any experience of the fixes going bang too? Or can it be guaranteed that an IMS replacement means you're safe?

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The IMS solution and the IMS Retrofit Pro (not the classic which have failed) have no failures recorded. Best to replace the IMS and then just drive and not worry about it!

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Given the cost of repair for the engine, I can't think why anyone wouldn't insure themselves then.

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Well actually, quite an interesting story over on rennlist, an Australian on there went to replace the IMS with the IMS solution and the new one didn't fit. He had to rebuild the engine but turns out it was actually previously rebuilt with upgraded Nikkies cylinder liners and an upgraded IMS, WIN! Well kind of... https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/1039071-a-journey-into-the-unknown.html Strange the previous owner didn't keep receipts of such extensive repairs

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the IMS solution is the best type of bearing, from an engineering point of view. It's the same type of bearing as Porsche used at the other (non troublesome) end of the intermediary shaft. all wear components will eventually fail.  LN offer a 5 year warranty on the part. I haven't seen anyone reporting failures from it yet on the US forums.

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@pommymike Watch this if you haven't already, it gives you all the knowledge you need in 20 minutes of viewing

Hmmm - interesting read on Rennlist. My suspicion is that the motor's primary problem was scored bores &/or DChunk then probably seized up - putting pressure on the IMS chains & spocket. If the original rebuilder told the then owner that the motor was still somewhat ''delicate' after the fix, he would have onsold the car ASAP without talking about the motor. BUT - as part of a purchase  PPI, wouldnt the ODB scanning software detect a timing out situation or cam mismatch??

The interesting part about part about the IMS solution going back to a plain bearing, is that all the plain bearings in aircooled motors on the intermediate shaft, don't last that long either.. I don't think they disintegrate, but when you pull a motor apart, it is common to replace them every time since they are usually already worn through the bearing surface.

There is NO such thing as a IMS solution. There is no solution for i, if there was Porsche would of done it like they did in the Turbo and GT series motors.  All those other LN engineering style and other branded IMS are just gimmicks in my opinion that need to be replaced with most clutch changes. So its not really a solution. At the end of the day, most of the cars having IMS issues are ones that sit around for months at a time and never get "DRIVEN". It's counter productive to a way a bearing is supposed to work.

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I think you're confusing the IMS solution with the IMS retrofit. The solution is a lifetime replacement the retrofit has a service life and does indeed need to be replaced (usually whilst changing a clutch) to save on labour costs. Not being driven and IMS failure dont necessarily correlate from the cases I've read.

can you confidently say, that the IMS solution is a complete solution and you will never ever have to worry about it again ?

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Personally, no but the manufacturer does. I've got the IMS Pro retrofit in my car. When the service interval is up I'll be having the solution installed which is a lift time solution. It's a plain oil fed bearing rather than a splash lubricated ceramic hybrid ball bearing. Both are far superior im every way to the original and its an insurance policy against bearing failure.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to be a d1ck or anything but i too would love a life time solution but the IMS Solution is only 5 years warranty and even less for the retrofit. IMS Solution LLC warrants that parts purchased from an authorized IMS Solution dealer or distributor, that were installed by a qualified installer and that were installed in compliance with, and precisely following, all guidelines and procedures, to include registration, set forth in the product installation guide, are free from defects in materials and workmanship for five (5) years/unlimited miles from the date of part installation for the single or dual row IMS Solution (106-08.20 & 106-08.40). The Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit is covered for two (2) years/24,000 miles from the date of part installation.

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I would say so as there is not a better engineering response to this issue and would be confident that this bearing would then outlast the rest of the engine. I agree with Dan, if you suffer any sort of IMS bearing anxiety,  just stump up extra for the "Solution" so you're free to worry about something else!

A different perspective.... With the 996 now approaching 20 years old (which for car companies is way past a "lifetime" for a model) and with a failure rate of under 5% (and if you listen to Porsche about 1 to 2%), the surviving original bearings are a lifetime one!

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All good, although I think we are confusing warranty and design in this discussion. That said the solution is "designed" to be a lifetime solution as it has no service interval. The retrofit is "designed" with a service interval. IMO warranty is not the discussion point, design is. Either way they are both upgraded parts which are superior to the original. However whether one chooses to replace their bearing or not is entirely up to them. For me it's an insurance policy and the retrofit pro was the entry level policy which I was comfortable taking out (or putting in!?).

If you take your 997 to a Porsche Centre with concerns about the IMS, what do they replace it with?  Do they use the last version of the OEM bearing?

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Depends if your 997 has an M96 or an M96 or more identifiably if you have a 3.6 or 3.8 (Carrera S). The M96 you can replace the bearing by dropping the gearbox if you have the 3.8 an entire engine tear down is required to replace the bearing. In an interesting turn of events Porsche have a part number for a replacement M96 IMS bearing.

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I thought the early 997S motors still have a bearing that could be replaced with the gearbox out?

i like how it says no intermediate shaft... mind you they ALL have the shafts just the bears are now solid like the gt3 and turbo engines.

That's true, the 9A1 engines don't have an IMS at all.  The camshafts are driven directly by chains from the crankshaft.

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correct. M96 and M97 had the single row bearings for early (2005) 997 builds. After that they use the double row bearing which is much more reliable, but also much harder to replace.

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Its a question of M96 or M97 the base Carrera carried over the M96, the S had the M97 which is a case split to replace the bearing. I've never read of a M97 Carrera S that has had a replacable bearing without a case split.