Considering '04 996 - Is this a Contender or Keep Looking?

So I went and looked at the somewhat local '04 996 with 79K on the clock. I'm considering getting a PPI done, but before I invest in that, I'd like to get some opinions on the car from what is currently known. Car: 2004 Carrera 6spd, Speed Yellow CarFax: Multiple owners in FL from 2003-13, serviced at Brumos, then car came to NC where is owned by a tech at Foreign Cars Italia, had a full engine rebuild at 59K in 2016 due to IMS failure, Vision did the rebuild; current owner bought in 2016 with 62.5K and now it has 79k on the clock. Engine Rebuild: full rebuild at 59K (Vision receipts), records of install and clutch replacement, etc. at 59k Current Owner Service: AOS and some hoses in the last 1K, cleaned radiators and added grill, oil changes every 5k, new rear tires; brakes not done during ownership; recent control arms and tie rods, alignment Current Owner Mods: cat delete with Becker downpipes (OEM cats are in a box), air intake delete (OEM parts come with it), transmission mount insert, B&M short shifter, plastidip wheels, decals Impressions of Car: it looks and drives great, very tight, straight as an arrow at 80mph, no rattles or vibration, quick and agile as it should be. BUT it's the only 996 I've ever driven. The body was straight, rock chips here and there, paint was glossy and deep, rich color. Interior was very clean, only slight wear on driver bolster as well as shift ****. Based on the pics and what is known, what would be a solid price range to pay, given that a PPI comes back with positive results? Appreciate the insight!

No rings, pistons, or Nickies? I was ready to say $30k or a touch more, but without a true "full rebuild" I don't think the engine work adds any value. Low to mid 20's given the condition of the paint and the wheels.

Yeah, $30k is probably fair, but if you can get it for less, that�s better of course. I would make sure you understand the oil consumption amount and check for bore scoring during the PPI. If the engine repair/rebuild was completed based on doing only the work that was needed, then it could be a good sign the whole engine wasn�t done if the bores and everything else looked good. But if the full rebuild wasn�t done because they just wanted to fix it and worry about the other items some 20,000-30,000 miles later, or to save money, that�s not good. Need to find out which choice was made.

Agree that the engine work was a repair and not an upgrade by any means - per the notes on your posted receipt. I think $25,000 is fair.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll call Vision again and see if they have any insight. I'll also call the local place for the PPI and ask about the bore scoping.

I suggest cutting open an oil filter before proceeding. also make sure you read a lot of info on these engines and failures before proceeding ( I see you are a new member)(lots of new guys buy a 996 to find out the seller knew his engine was failed and hides it) I don't want this to happen to you. proceed with caution, take your time emotions will cost you if not careful.

Two questions. Do they use nickies or steel? What do they use for the IMSB?

They used an LN for the IMS. Not sure one the others

The price suggests that it was the LN/RND Roller Bearing rather than the Dual Row Retrofit.

Correct me if I heard wrong, but they may use steel bores. Certainly not here to debate the advantage or disadvantages of steel vs Nickies. Just something to think about if the info is correct.

I agree, if they did not do Nickies' it's not a top quality rebuild. I'd say mid-20s. If they did use Nickies, I'd say low 30s. In either case, get an "invasive" PPI before purchase.

The prices on the receipt strongly suggest this is not a Nickies rebuild. Aside from most of the upgraded stuff not being on the receipt at all (Including the $4-5k Nickies re-sleeve.) I happen to be painfully aware that the custom Nickies head gaskets from LN/Elring are about $350 for a set. The gaskets on the receipt are OEM.

Just confirmed with Vision - it was a stock rebuild, bores were evaluated and left stock.

I would honestly keep searching. If I'm spending $20-$30k on something, there should be zero questioning if it's the right purchase or not. This one still leaves questions.

Uploaded a video of the car at idle after a drive: You Tube

see post #6 in this thread. I can tell you are going to ignore the advice here and get emotional and take a chance and (hopefully not) see you crying here. Good luck!

I'm trying not to make an emotional decision, I'm still far away from making any commitment. A PPI is the only way I move forward, if I even get there...and after speaking with the shop today they said they don't do a bore scope, but will check the oil filter. This is not a decision I want to mess up.

If you want a bore scope perhaps elaborate to them you're willing to pay for their labor if they're willing to quote time for you. Bore scopes are not ordinarily part of a PPI package from a shop - normally they are extra paid time.

I am not trying to criticize the shop that rebuilt the engine but it is very unlikely that an engine with that many miles would have passed the wear specification for cylinder out of round. Perhaps Skip can provide more info on this with based on his years of experience. It is a waste of money to do a cheap rebuild of one of these engines if you want the car to last and perform in the long run. If I was purchasing this car, I would factor in that it will need a proper rebuild in a few years.Best of luck in your search, but as others have said, do not let your emotions lead you to a bad financial decision.

Did we establish what imsb was put in and when? I would develop a list of what service and parts replacements were done and when. This will tell you what you will need to put into the car independent of an engine rebuild if it has bad bores. Bore scope from bottom up is critical. You may have a great car that can last you another 50-100k miles, or one that will need an engine rebuilt in 5k depending on what the bore scope says. It's a cool looking car that may be a peach or lemon. You will know soon enough.

Wife put the foot down on a yellow 911..said she's (somewhat fine) with a 911, just not a yellow one. Really appreciate the insight on the rebuild and the importance of bore scoping. Is a bore scope mandatory for any PPI or only one with a rebuild where the it wasn't sleeved? Thanks!

Quotes source post: 17944714

I'm not a big "PPI or death" kinda guy; there are certainly cases (based on risk analysis) where a PPI is not necessarily needed. However, if you are going to bother with a PPI, bore scoring should be in the top three most important things to check over.

Quotes source post: 17944714

Most important thing is that your wife gives you a thumbs up! Many shops will not do a borescope with a PPI because it's a pain in the ***, but it should be done. Why? Because a PPI does not look at the bores, it looks at everything else. The bores are critical, because if you have borescoring, you will eventually need an engine rebuild. That's 20-35k. to put it simply, you want a car with NO borescoring, that has replaced its IMSB, AOS, Water Pump, Fuel Injectors, MAF and O2 sensors recently, as well as all other parts are in good condition. If not, a 35k car may end up costing you another 35k with and engine rebuild and various other parts. You get the idea. Make sure you get the service history, it will help you piece together what has been done and when. Plenty of good 996s out there.

Quotes source post: 17944714

Steer clear of the silver ones cause they are the most prone to blow up.

I bet that engine had a cracked valve seat, which is why they only did a top end and main and rod bearings on the bottom end. It was certainly a financial decision by the previous owner to stop the $$$ bleeding. I got lucky with my 02. The PO had the same thing happen - cracked valve seat. He went ahead and did a full rebuild with nickies, heads sent to Hoffman. I basically bought the car for just about what he paid to have the engine rebuilt. If the price is right and there is no metal in the oil filter and there are no bad values out of a computer scan the car may be worth the risk. Mid to high $30k without a borescope is a risk I would not take.

Quotes source post: 17944714

Did you ask her with your shirt off already, or what?

Quotes source post: 17944978

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/420x228/61d643b5_3241_433c_b45f_8868bc07d5a5_c71fad290942a55ab7f0f0296e85c522ffa25a66.gif

The local Jag dealership has a '02 cabrio with hardtop on the lot, so I went to take a look at lunch. What an effing disaster! The paint was mediocre at best, with chips and scratches. The interior looked like a used Camry. And then I started it up... FAILURE OIL LEVEL INDICATOR, plumes of blue/white smoke and an atrocious rattle!!! Ran for about 5 seconds and I shut it off. Told the salesperson I think they better send it to their Porsche dealership down the road. I did like the way the regular shifter felt compared to the B&M...more what I am used to, so it wasn't a total waste of a trip.

Quotes source post: 17945045

Nothing will help...I'm digging to deep to see how I can persuade her. She is worried about resale value of the color because one of my buddies mentioned it. I'm trying to explain to her that this decision isn't about resale value...she's not having it

Quotes source post: 17944978

Same can be said with Mary Kay pink.

Quotes source post: 17945035

If is was just cracked seat, why split the case at all?

Quotes source post: 17945071

What she is basically telling you is that she doesn't want you in a "boy" car color. My wife told me the same thing 20 years ago when I got mine. So I went with seal grey. No difference in performance between colors. You can always get a very brightly colored fire suit to snazz it up a bit.

Quotes source post: 17945139

While the engine is out and the heads are off why not change the rod and main bearings? It's still way less cost than sending the block out for new liners. Of course I am just guessing here, but I'd imagine Vision looked at the lower end and didn't see the need to do more than what they did. I love that yellow egg yolk color. But, I can't get out my head an episode of Wheeler Dealers when Mike looked at a yellow convertible something. He commented how he hated yellow and thought bees would follow him.

Quotes source post: 17944978

boooo.

Quotes source post: 17945444

Given the low instance of failure versus the level of effort in splitting the case (not to mention the potential for error in reassembly) inspecting the rod and mains seems like a waste of energy and money. Once the case is apart you may as well go the rest of the way and do Nickies and larger pistons. The additional cost will be darn near offset by an increase in the value of the car.

Quotes source post: 17945071

I think there is fair enough evidence that a speed yellow 996 will have more resale value than the common color 996s, all other things being equal

I ended up stopping by the local Porsche independent yesterday, and had a long conversation with them about the car. Shared with them all that was shared here, and they were very high on the car pending a thorough PPI. I worked on the wife and got her on my side�it was a challenge to say the least. After speaking with the seller, we agreed on a price and he reinstalled the factory cats and airbox set up. If all goes as planned, the PPI will be next Thursday, and baring anything major, I could have the car by next weekend. I appreciate all of the insight and will keep you updated.