Spyder RS lack of grip / confidence on road? Anyone else? - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Hi all, Looking to sanity check something with other Spyder RS owners. I’ve had my car just under a year now (around 2,800 miles), and this weekend was probably the first time I’ve pushed it a bit harder on the road in warmer, dry conditions (roof down, 16c Sunny temperatures). To be honest, I came away quite disappointed with how it felt. The car sounds incredible, but dynamically it didn’t feel very confidence inspiring. Under heavier braking it felt quite easy to lock up, on acceleration (especially over slightly bumpy sections) the rear felt like it was skipping rather than putting power down cleanly, and overall the car just felt a bit nervous and unsettled at speed on typical UK roads. It also didn’t feel like there was much front-end bite on direction changes. For context, the car is completely standard on the factory Dunlop Sport Maxx Race 2 tyres, hasn’t been tracked, and the tyres have plenty of tread and I always had full stability and traction control turned on. I’m just trying to understand whether this is normal behaviour for these tyres / this car on UK B roads, or if something isn’t quite right with my setup. Would be really interested to hear if others have experienced anything similar. Cheers

Am not as expert as many on here, but have had a GT3 and currently have a 718 Spyder. Think you may benefit from a trip to Center Gravity if they're within range of where you live They'll check your suspension set up, and adjust to the kind of thing you're after. Apparently many of the recent GT cars arrive out of the box from the factory with very different settings from car to car. The suspension on yours will have settled over the last 2k so now's an ideal time to have the geo looked at Hope you get it sorted to your liking. Great cars

Get an alignment done - exactly as above. This forum needs ‘Like’ button.

Those tyres don’t really have much of a road tread pattern and so perhaps they are struggling in the crappy surfaces we drive on, with pot holes and loose debris etc. Perhaps run the rears with a little less pressure to aid grip. Yes, do get the geo checked, but be careful not to go away with the driving god set up of super darty front end and rear axle set up for power oversteer.

I have heard from owners of GT4 / Spyders that the Dunlop tyres are dreadful most of the time, borderline dangerous in damp/cool conditions. Before getting the geo done, may be worth swapping to a set of Michelin Cup 2's and putting the Dunlop tyres on eBay (or in the bin).

TDT said: Get an alignment done - exactly as above. This forum needs Like button. I can add some meat to the bones - A mate had one and it was not right from the off. Then took it out for a spirited run on a Sunday morning and it nearly threw him in the ditch without any provocation. He was well used to performance cars and owned many GT3`s etc and not doing anything crazy. Went straight back to supplying dealer and the geo was all over the place. Go with your gut and get them to check it before spending out and getting a 3rd party involved. That being said, the 3rd party mentioned will maximise whats available rather than just check or put it back "within" tolerance.

For my money - I would do geo before getting tyres. Unless you are going to change for more of a pure road tyre such as PS4S. Without the car being correctly set or at the very least ‘straight’, you are always going to have inconsistent handling and at the same time could be wearing tyres incorrectly or burning them up. Your current tyres have plenty of life and the Dunlops are not so terrible - they just have a different characteristic than Cup2. The Dunlops heat up quicker and i think have a bit more heat durability. Cup 2 ride softer and probably have more peak grip once they get into temp window. My car was delivered on Dunlops and I used them until end of life, and they were quick enough whilst getting up to speed with the car also. So IMO little point throwing on brand new rubber without knowing what exactly the car is saying first place. You’ll just burn up that set also and be none-the-wiser. Once you know how the car is set, you make a decision on tyres, as not sure of anyone will buy a used set of those anyway unless priced at peanuts?

Thanks for all the input, really appreciate it. Sounds like there’s a consistent theme around getting the geo checked, so I’ll definitely look into that. I’ll also check my tyre pressures properly as I didn’t actually measure them before going out, which could be part of the issue. Interesting to hear the mixed views on the Dunlops as well – seems like they might not be best suited to typical UK roads, especially with the surfaces we have. I did take the car on my usual route so know how the roads usually feel in other cars I have driven and have taken the Spyder RS on this route before but either wasn't pushing the car as much or something has changed. I’ll get the pressures sorted first and then look at alignment if needed. Will report back once I’ve had another proper drive. Out of interest, what tyre pressures are people running for road use on these? Would be good to have a baseline to work from. Cheers 👍

Just run what is on the door. Point to note, I believe, that those pressures are at ambient of 20°c so those are intended hot pressures, so compensate accordingly.

What ate your previous cars? My old GT4 had a very mobile rear given the modest power in comparison. I understand they are 295 ? - you have a lot more power .The stiffer suspension is going to make it a lot more busy and twitchy compared to say a standard GT4 or caymen. A good’s geo can make a difference for sure.

I’ve had a fair mix of cars over the years – a couple of Aston Martin Vantages, a manual 718 GT4, McLaren 600LT, Lotus Exige 350, and I also run a lightweight Lotus 7-style kit car. I’ve never experienced this kind of behaviour in any of them, which is why it stood out. It’s not like I was on full throttle or doing anything too extreme either – just carrying speed through corners, the car felt quite unsettled and fidgety. At the moment I’m leaning towards it being a poor alignment/setup from the factory, but I’ll check pressures first and go from there.

TDT said: For my money - I would do geo before getting tyres. Unless you are going to change for more of a pure road tyre such as PS4S. Without the car being correctly set or at the very least straight , you are always going to have inconsistent handling and at the same time could be wearing tyres incorrectly or burning them up. Your current tyres have plenty of life and the Dunlops are not so terrible - they just have a different characteristic than Cup2. The Dunlops heat up quicker and i think have a bit more heat durability. Cup 2 ride softer and probably have more peak grip once they get into temp window. My car was delivered on Dunlops and I used them until end of life, and they were quick enough whilst getting up to speed with the car also. So IMO little point throwing on brand new rubber without knowing what exactly the car is saying first place. You ll just burn up that set also and be none-the-wiser. Once you know how the car is set, you make a decision on tyres, as not sure of anyone will buy a used set of those anyway unless priced at peanuts? 100% agree with above. The Dunlop tyres shouldn't be an issue. Tracked them in various conditions on my GT4 and they were fine. I can also highly recommend Pete at CG.

CBG_Russ said: I ve had a fair mix of cars over the years a couple of Aston Martin Vantages, a manual 718 GT4, McLaren 600LT, Lotus Exige 350, and I also run a lightweight Lotus 7-style kit car. I ve never experienced this kind of behaviour in any of them, which is why it stood out. It s not like I was on full throttle or doing anything too extreme either just carrying speed through corners, the car felt quite unsettled and fidgety. At the moment I m leaning towards it being a poor alignment/setup from the factory, but I ll check pressures first and go from there. Give that long list of mid engines cars does seem odd. I’ve not driven a RS so can’t comment directly myself. Fridaypassion had had all these I think?

My GT4 RS seemed compromised for ride quality and "safe" handling as it arrived. Front end wasn't very positive on turn in unless well loaded up on the brakes, and the back end tended to skip on the way out of corners, especially if it was bumpy or there were changes of surface to contend with. I think I know what you mean about front end lock up, but it never really did. I did feel like I had to load up progressively to get the weight transfer onto the front axle, and feel what was going on with brakes or steering. Geo setup helped a lot on my car, and since then I've changed some suspension components to get it working more to my preference on the track. If I were using it purely as a fast road car, it would still have benefitted from changing the road springs, but I probably wouldn't have bothered. However (and it's an important however), having had that work done in stages, with 8 or 9 track days interspersed between it all, I think a lot of my concerns about the car on the road as standard were nerves on my part. It's a car that rewards grabbing by the scruff of the neck and driving it, and while it has some quirks that got ironed out with technical changes early on, I probably could have learnt to drive the car with all of them. It was lively, but with hindsight, a lot more benign than I realised at the time. I'm not a fan of the Dunlops, but haven't found them too bad until they are getting short of tread depth. Mine has been wearing PS4S over the last month or so, and they are transformative on the road, especially in cool weather. They were also exceptional for a slightly chilly track day last month. Even came home with them not looking too buggered by 50 odd laps of Silverstone International. Different but similar car. Your post reminded me of my first experiences pushing-on a bit for pace on the road. A seeming lifetime later of collecting "moments" on the track (AKA driver error), I realise the car has been taking better care of me than me of it. Its only crime turns out was not being the 981 GT4 it replaced. Liam

That’s really helpful, thanks for taking the time to write that. A lot of what you’ve described sounds very similar to what I experienced, especially the rear skipping on corner exit over bumps. I’ve since checked my tyre pressures and they were around 4 PSI low on all corners, so I’ve corrected them to 34 PSI rear and 30 PSI front. I’ll see how it feels from there before looking at geo. Really appreciate the insight

Beyond alignment and tyres you could have a look at what Suspension Secrets offer. They specifically mention for the GT4 RS that stock the rear axle is over sprung and underdamped causing a hopping and skipping effect from the rear end through corners. Interestingly though for the Spyder RS they don't mention this specifically and the focus is on less roll through the corners with stiffer spring rates.

SRS is 50-55% softer in spring rate compared to 4RS - so its the same as a 718 Spyder.

Can only judge from experience in the GT4 Clubsport race car, so take it with a truck load of salt: - First point of call are tire pressures. If they are off, then handling is too - Second step is GEO, where small changes can make a big difference This all assumes, that your Cup2s were within the right temperature window

If you bought your car from an opc then take it back, speak to your contact and they will check the geo for free. Absolute no brainer for peace of mind and will inform you of your next move ....

I would 100% get your geometry checked and reset. The tyre choice between Dunlop / Michelin will not make a significant difference to the basic handling characteristics of the car. From your description my guess would be that your rear toe is not set correctly. I found that both my Spyders were quite sensitive to rear toe, my first one was especially bad straight from the factory. There is enough adjustability in the chassis to fundamentally alter the way the car feels to the driver, which can be a good thing as it allows you to fine tune the car to how you like it. I preferred the car on Michelin PS4 tyres rather than Cup 2. They are a little softer and trade some sharpness for a much wider operating envelope. Persevere with it as its a great car to drive once you have it how you prefer it.

sorry, accidental post

LiamH66 said: I think a lot of my concerns about the car on the road as standard were nerves on my part. It's a car that rewards grabbing by the scruff of the neck and driving it, and while it has some quirks that got ironed out with technical changes early on, I probably could have learnt to drive the car with all of them. It was lively, but with hindsight, a lot more benign than I realised at the time. Liam Exactly this! You can spend ££££ on expensive alignment, the internet champion tyres, tyre pressures and all manner of recommended mods, the majority of it is just placebo and designed to give you confidence. But it when it comes down to it, your problem is confidence in the car and its dynamics, something that you ll learn with more seat time and/or driver tuition, advanced driving courses and the like. In your situation, I d get the alignment checked at the OPC and use the tyre pressures printed on the door somewhere. After that give yourself time and let it come to you. But if you don t have confidence in the car, you won t have confidence driving it. Edited by maz8062 on Sunday 19th April 06:33 Edited by maz8062 on Sunday 19th April 06:33

maz8062 said: Exactly this! You can spend ££££ on expensive alignment, the internet champion tyres, tyre pressures and all manner of recommended mods, the majority of it is just placebo and designed to give you confidence. But it when it comes down to it, your problem is confidence in the car and its dynamics, something that you ll learn with more seat time and/or driver tuition, advanced driving courses and the like. In your situation, I d get the alignment checked at the OPC and use the tyre pressures printed on the door somewhere. After that give yourself time and let it come to you. But if you don t have confidence in the car, you won t have confidence driving it. Edited by maz8062 on Sunday 19th April 06:33 Edited by maz8062 on Sunday 19th April 06:33 I’d have to disagree with most of that. GT4s and Spyders are notoriously sensitive to geo and famously poor on factory settings. Getting the right setup is transformative. For context, I have raced a Cayman and instructed in numerous versions as well as owning a couple as road cars. I’m all for seat time and driver training but having a good base car to do it in is a big head start.