968 Sport vs 968 Club Sport - Page 5 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

I'm considering purchasing maybe a 968 as the next fun car for weekend use. I always thought I'd go 968CS, but now that I'm actually watching the classifieds I've noticed that there are far more 968 Sports coming up for sale, and obviously at more attractive prices than a Club Sport. Question is though, is a ClubSport really worth the extra outlay over a Sport for some fun weekend driving on the public roads ? Is there actually that much of a discernible difference between the two with an average driver at the wheel up in the mountains on a Sunday afternoon ?

To be honest there is sod all difference between them and I have a CS, which I'll be selling soon.

The very fact that there are fewer Clubsports and their pedigree puts them way ahead imho if you are interested in protecting your investment ... Clubsports an all-time great.

I would say from a driving & enjoyment point of view there is very little difference. It is easy to modify a 968 to be like the CS (apart from the CS's with the beefier suspension option). It comes down to the effect of the 'desirability factor' on values. A CS costs more to buy but will always be sought after and probably appreciate in value over time.

A Sport is identical to a Club Sport under the skin. Only difference is the Sport has the comfort seats / electric windows, sunroof and mirrors / slightly larger wiring loom. The brakes and suspension are identical unless it had the MO30 option. A Sport is slightly heavier, thats about it.

There is actually very little difference between all 968's as the only guaranteed differences between coupes and Sport/ CS's are the springs are lowered by 1 inch and the weight. Lots of people go on about CS/ sport suspension but they have the same shocks as coupes, just lower springs, same brakes as coupes, only other difference is 50kg's lighter, some of which gets added back with a Sport model or options etc. Everything else was an option, i.e. you could have 17's on a Coupe, or a CS with a sunroof and a/c negating much of the weight savings. Its the collectability of the CS cars that sets them apart more than anything else, so you pay a bit more for them and get a bit more when you sell, so its all relative.

Every Sport started life on the Zuffenhausen production line as a CS - Porsche UK added a few luxuries back in when they were shipped to this country. Many CSes come with these options specced anyway (it's almost impossible to find a non-sunroof CS for example) - which is why Porsche UK created the Sport variant. While there is little to no qualitative difference between the cars, the iconic CS badge attracts buyers, and having observed the market for some time it's clear that a well-maintained CS will be easier to sell on than a Sport. As a Sport owner it pains me to perpetuate the myth, but if you have an eye on resale and are willing to commit the extra purchase cost up front, a CS makes sense not because it's a better car, but because it's a more desirable car.

In addition to whats been said already unless you are bothered about residuals and rare factor etc the Sport is the better buy and better bang for buck

Is a 968 still a viable daily drive?

CS is a 90s motoring icon as such it will always command a premium - it is also relatively rare in RHD, apparently only only 179 right hookers. Buy a good CS and it's like having money in the bank, buy a good Sport it's like having an Icelandic bank account. CS for me everytime

DAB964RS said: Buy a good CS and it's like having money in the bank Best investment ive made in the past 12 months

So what's the difference between the seats in the CS (obviously better) and the Sport 'comfort' seats? How do the 'comfort' seats compare to the standard seats? Would it be fair to say: Std. Seats < 'Comfort' seats < CS Seats?

DAB964RS said: ...buy a good Sport it's like having an Icelandic bank account. I disagree. I owned mine for 3 years and sold it for a grand less than I paid for it. Had I not wanted a very easy sale I'd have got all my money back (I was working abroad at the time and was selling back in the UK).

Thanks for all the comments and replies folks. But I'm still undecided !! 968CS is worth it for the extra kudos when you attend a meet or show etc., but then the premium over a near-as-damnit Sport would put a lot of juice in the tank to provide some great driving enjoyment.... Smiles per mile 'n all that.... Edited by Corso Marche on Wednesday 16th June 15:42

Mag1calTrev0r said: So what's the difference between the seats in the CS (obviously better) and the Sport 'comfort' seats? How do the 'comfort' seats compare to the standard seats? Would it be fair to say: Std. Seats < 'Comfort' seats < CS Seats? Sport comfort seat are what they say they are, nice and comfortable for everyday driving but still hold you in place nicely. The Recaros in the Club Sport are hard bucket seats which probably wouldnt suit everyday driving. Fabulous cars though.

'Comfort' seats were the most uncomfortable crude things I've ever sat on ... and a complete contrast to the focussed CS seats.

Expect to pay upwards of 14k for a half decent CS. Less than 10k might get you a 100k mile plus Sport that has been cherished and enthusiast owned. That gives you about 3k to play with assuming you lose about 1k on resale after 12 months. That 3g gets a lot of stuff

Corso Marche said: 968CS is worth it for the extra kudos when you attend a meet or show etc., but then the premium over a near-as-damnit Sport would put a lot of juice in the tank to provide some great driving enjoyment.... Smiles per mile 'n all that.... I don't think you get much in the way of kudos from those in the know. Those in the know know they're so close to being the same car that the premium paid for the CS is questionable at best on a day-to-day basis.

You might get some kudos if you turned up in a mint M030 spec CS with factory cage....but other than that you would have to have something pretty special as like Will says, those in the know....know better! Save the cash get a good clean Sport and put it towards a KW V3 kit and some maintenance....you won't look back.

IMHO buy a sport and fit some proper Recaros, or do something different and buy an 85 pre-ABS 944 turbo. All 968s are rare. ISTR on the UK market the sport was the biggest seller of the 968's, coupe sales dropped off once the cheaper CS or the latter sport was available. In 20 months of ownership I am still yet to see another 968 on the road at the same time as mine and I use my car as a DD. Be very wary of over hyped cars and prices, I can recall about 5 years ago seeing an absolutely mint sport for sale at £9.9K. Chatting to the garage owner recently he couldn't sell it and traded it in the end. Now fast forward a few years and there are few low mileage minty cars around but ppl are asking often crazy high prices, the spread can be all over the place. Don't fall into the trap of thinking you will definitely make mega bucks by speculating on a 968 CS that is likely already over priced.

And if you do go the CS route pop over to the 968uk forum. I learned quite a lot while researching my purchase and not all is what it seems when you scratch beneath those decals and that hatch badge....

RC said: And if you do go the CS route pop over to the 968uk forum. I learned quite a lot while researching my purchase and not all is what it seems when you scratch beneath those decals and that hatch badge.... What do you mean?

Funnily lots of CSs are equipped with normal (or "comfort") seats which makes it even less point to pay the premium.

Its not hard to retro spec to factory CS spec so not all CS's are authentic furthermore, some of them (one that recently struggled to sell) may have had a hard life inspite of seemingly low mileage and well documented history because they are great out of the box track sl@gs

RC said: And if you do go the CS route pop over to the 968uk forum. Will do. Thanks. Another evening lost browsing internet forums....

www.jackals-forge.com

jackal said: www.jackals-forge.com Whatever you do don't go to that site! You'll never feel your 968 is sorted again!

jackal said: www.jackals-forge.com Blatant self promotion. Got a new car yet?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

No volvo? Lovin the go faster wheel trims. Tireless workhorses those things. Wanna buy my CS? Cleaner than yours was.

nick_968 said: There is actually very little difference between all 968's as the only guaranteed differences between coupes and Sport/ CS's are the springs are lowered by 1 inch and the weight. ............ only other difference is 50kg's lighter, some of which gets added back with a Sport model The 50kg Porsche quoted was the difference between a vanilla Coupe and vanilla CS. In reality, the Coupe (and more importantly; Press cars) would have been optioned with stuff like a/c, roof, leather, music system and bigger wheels, so the real difference was more like 100kgs. This explains the press reaction to the handling and speed of the first CS's compared to their lukewarm reception to the Coupe - the CS was also much cheaper. BTW, as a result of the weight loss and reduction in frontal area, the CS was more accelerative and faster than a Coupe, Porsche didn't publish improved figures as they didn't want to have to repeat type approval. I've owned a Coupe, non-sunroof CS and 951. SS7

RC said: Cleaner than yours was. Put it up for £22k then. See if you can raise the 968 market by another 2k

and mines cleaner than ravis so I might try £23...

All the 968s are driver`s cars. I borrowed a normal coupe for a few laps round the track and I was quite impressed. It belongs to a friend who was going to get a Sport or CS, but because of the excellent condition of the coupe, he bought that instead. He`s done quite a few track days in it now, and loves it.

frogisland said: .....and mine £ ? That's fairly tidy mate

Jason were you not selling it? i'll give you 15 and i'm being generous.

And just to further complicate things, I've seen a nice '91 944Turbo for sale for half the potential purchase price of a 968Sport. How do the 944Turbos rate for driving fun ? Oh, what to do, what to do.....

If its half the price of decent sport id walk. The turbo would be a hoon. Ive had an S2 to compare the CS with and its worth more than half the value of good sport and super rare

shoestring7 said: the CS was also much cheaper. SS7 Porsche stripping a car out and actually charging less for it rather than a premium? Those were the days

Corso Marche said: How do the 944Turbos rate for driving fun ? I haven’t stopped grinning yet in three years of driving mine. The 968 is essentially an evolution of the 944 S2. It’s all about smooth power delivery through the whole rev range. A 944 Turbo, in contrast, crawls up to 3k rpm and then boots you really hard in the back with the turbo. It all depends which approach puts a bigger smile on your face. Horses for courses. They’re both absolutely beautifully composed through the corners. Both pure driver’s cars, once you’ve found a good one. (Same chassis and geometry after all, apart from the front castor mounts—they were changed to suit bigger wheels for the 968 and you should fit a set to a 944 if popping big rims on it). Oh, and the ’44 Turbo is easier to modify for more power if you’re into that sort of thing. However, the 968 is a newer car—same technology but literally less years on the road—and rarer, especially in CS form. Thus the 968 will cost more and hold that value better. The relative ages also mean that there are more ropey 944s out there than 968s. You’re more likely to find rust in nasty places, so look carefully. Edited by poprock on Friday 18th June 17:30

A lot will come down to how you feel about the engine. The 968 is the only 4 pot motor I have driven that I have liked, super smooth, torquey, instant response and decent sound on cam. The gearbox ratio's are incredibly close, so much so that your never out of the power band in the 68. The 44 turbo is the complete opposite, IMHO its one of the least satisfying engines of any car I have ever been in. Monster power but very little go at low rpm and a sound akin to a demented hair dryer.

This looks like a bloody good car if you’re looking for a 968. A lightly modified Sport with CS decals. £8k ono 968 in Derby

A thicker sidewalls on a big-bore stainless steel exhaust system apparently does wonders for the 951 exhaust note. I bought a 944 turbo because I want to tune it to about 500 bhp & then give a few other vehicles a surprise - not something you can do with a 968. I've sourced spherical bearings, Leda coilovers with custom Eibach springs(450 lb front/350lb rear), adjustable Tarett antiroll bars front & rear, camber plates, Top mount & A-arm braces, 27 mm torsion bars, solid transmission & torsion tube mounts, 18" technology hollow spokes (993 turbo), Yoky A048s (265/35 & 225/40), big blacks & a 5/33 proportioning valve, lightweight flywheel & a Guard 50/80 LSD. The aim is to get the suspension & brakes sorted this year before embarking on engine development work. The U.S. is way ahead of the UK/Europe in 951 tuning - I guess the Americans are just much more confident about improving on the factory product. But if you're not into tuning then I suppose the 968 might suit.

poprock said: This looks like a bloody good car if you’re looking for a 968. A lightly modified Sport with CS decals. £8k ono 968 in Derby And Dave is very particular

Actually going to look at a 1991 944Turbo this evening. Spoken with the seller and all sounds good and genuine, and the car looks well in the pics I've seen. So we'll see what the full story is with a proper inspection and test-drive. Price is half that of a decent 968Sport so we'll see what happens...

Well that particular 944Turbo was a non-runner. The dreaded tin worm was sufficiently camouflaged but ready to turn it into a money-pit within 12months after a proper root around it. Shame really...

Did you drive it? As the both alternatives are a similar vintage you could have similar issues; need to be careful with the bodywork.

Yeah, gave it a decent spin on a good cross-section of varying roads, had it for about 30mins. of a drive. I'm still trying to decide what I think of the driving experience to be honest. My mate who accompanied me reckons I'll get bored with it quickly and want something else, and the awful thing is he could be right. What I haven't disclosed in this thread is that I'm keen to try something different after selling my factory de-cat Chimaera, which would've left the 944 sitting when it came to grunt and traction, in any gear, at any speed. I've an Evo I integrale which likewise even though it's got less power is a much more violent drive when it comes to acceleration & handling and both of us felt that the 944 would've failed to keep with the integrale if they were side by side and both cars nailed it from a rolling start. Might go have a look at a '92 944 3.0 next weekend, and see what kind of money it could be got for if it's decent. And what I make of the power delivery of the N/A motor. Other than that, I might be reverting to the original plan of a 968Sport. Edited by Corso Marche on Tuesday 22 June 12:50

If your coming from a Chim and a Integrale then the 944 / 968 series of cars will seem "sedate". The 944S2 /968 are good cars, but could always do with a tad more in the power stakes... BUT The Porsches are all about handling + balance... They excell in this department, only snag is you can only realy exploit this to good effect on a track....

big - dave said: If your coming from a Chim and a Integrale then the 944 / 968 series of cars will seem "sedate". The 944S2 /968 are good cars, but could always do with a tad more in the power stakes... BUT The Porsches are all about handling + balance... They excell in this department, only snag is you can only realy exploit this to good effect on a track.... Supercharging Dave....... I'll get my coat lol

big - dave said: If your coming from a Chim and a Integrale then the 944 / 968 series of cars will seem "sedate". The 944S2 /968 are good cars, but could always do with a tad more in the power stakes... BUT The Porsches are all about handling + balance... They excell in this department, only snag is you can only realy exploit this to good effect on a track.... This is all very true.

I've a 20 valve Ur Quattro (43,000 miles from new) & while it can get up & go from low revs while the 944 turbo is still sleeping I bought the 944 turbo because as a platform for further tuning (in all areas, brakes, suspension, transmission & engine) it represents a combination of possibly the best value & greatest potential in a thoroughbred marque. I accept that the engine note is anemic, in stock tune they're laggy & the interior is functional. Once these cars have bigger brakes, better suspension & a properly tuned 400+ bhp motor - they're magic. These are not tricky things to do. In the States they're getting 600 bhp at the wheels from the 2.5 litre (700 bhp flywheel) & more for 3+ litre versions. If you're comparing stock with stock I can appreciate why you may be underwhelmed, but if you want to do a little tuning then this may just be the machine for you.

Corso Marche said: Yeah, gave it a decent spin on a good cross-section of varying roads, had it for about 30mins. of a drive. I'm still trying to decide what I think of the driving experience to be honest. My mate who accompanied me reckons I'll get bored with it quickly and want something else, and the awful thing is he could be right. What I haven't disclosed in this thread is that I'm keen to try something different after selling my factory de-cat Chimaera, which would've left the 944 sitting when it came to grunt and traction, in any gear, at any speed. I've an Evo I integrale which likewise even though it's got less power is a much more violent drive when it comes to acceleration & handling and both of us felt that the 944 would've failed to keep with the integrale if they were side by side and both cars nailed it from a rolling start. Might go have a look at a '92 944 3.0 next weekend, and see what kind of money it could be got for if it's decent. And what I make of the power delivery of the N/A motor. Other than that, I might be reverting to the original plan of a 968Sport. Edited by Corso Marche on Tuesday 22 June 12:50 If you found the 944T sedate (assuming it was in good shape mechanically) the S2 and 968 is going to feel hugely underwhelming IMO. An Integrale on paper doesn't look any quicker than a 944T. Perhaps the one you test-drove wasn't 100%? And as been said, 944T's are easily modified. A Promax L2 kit gets you 300 bhp for under a grand fitted ( http://www.promaxmotorsport.com/promaxkit2.htm )

There’s also the option of waiting until a nicely modified ’44 Turbo comes up for sale. It’s a fairly small community of guys who seriously tweak 944s here in the UK and every now and again one of the cars changes hands. They’ve been selling for just under £10k of late.

Good point. I don't know if he sold it but I would give Baz at Hartech a ring about his 3.0 litre 944 Turbo. Not highly modified but his car would be a great base or just leave as-is. There is a long thread on this forum about it. Edited by BillyB on Tuesday 22 June 15:58

Yes a standard 944 turbo might well be a bit underwhelming due to the lag plus factoring in such things as a tired original wastegate. As others have said, even relatively minor mods can transform the car and from then on the sky, or your wallet, is the limit...

Yeah, the reason I'm looking at 944s/968s is to try something different now, just for a change. They have always been on my list of cars to own; a box that has to be checked. I just want to find a nice, tidy, original example, which I can enjoy for some weekend driving. I'm not interested in tuning it, just maintaining it to a good standard. After thinking about it all day I don't think the 944T is for me, so I'm gonna try a 3.0 N/A car and see how that feels as a drive. Less outright power on paper, but the N/A motor might provide a different feel to the car I'm hoping. We shall see. It's a bit mad what 24hrs can do for your perspective; because if we hadn't found the rot in the car last night I would've probably paid cash for it and drove it away and been on here raving about it today. Edited by Corso Marche on Tuesday 22 June 16:42

OP, as others have commented, based on what you have written it's questionable whether an S2 or 968 will suit you. The cars are only hot-hatch quick by modern standards; if it's outright straightline grunt you are looking for, a modded 951 is your best bet. If you're going to try an NA iteration, be sure to do so in its natural environment;: punted hard down your twistiest local country road, making full use of the wide powerband, carrying massive speed into the corners, enjoying its balance, driving position, throttle response, and the rich feedback given through all control interfaces.

plenty said: If you're going to try an NA iteration, be sure to do so in its natural environment;: punted hard down your twistiest local country road, making full use of the wide powerband, carrying massive speed into the corners, enjoying its balance, driving position, throttle response, and the rich feedback given through all control interfaces. Y'see, that's well written. And exactly what has drawn me to the 944/968 cars, sheerly by their reputation, and hanging on my bedroom wall as a teenager... But the killing thing here is that I'd setup the TVR to drive in this way too, changing the susp all round and doing the geometry setup myself in the garage at home. A few mates who track Elises couldn't get over how the Chim handled, it had a sharper and more responsive front end than the Elises any of them had setup, and a trustworthy and compliant rear-end with so much traction that you'd have to be a fool for it to step out madly. But it also had the torque and grunt to make things effortless. To quote you again; ' making full use of the wide powerband, carrying massive speed into the corners, enjoying its balance, driving position, throttle response, and the rich feedback given through all control interfaces ' It's exactly that feedback and feel I'm after in a car; I was never one for using stopwatches, I just drive for the enjoyment of it.

Good clarification. I would add that IMO these cars are relatively understated and it takes a while for them to get under your skin. They don't have a charismatic powerplant, they're not especially quick, and there isn't a single feature that really stands out and commands immediate and outright attention and lust like a TVR's noise or an Elise's turn-in. Which means it's entirely possible to be underwhelmed on a test drive. Give it time, however, and the subtleties reveal themselves: the poise, the versatility, the build quality and depth of engineering. I can understand why some people say these cars lack soul; they are left-brain cars, introverted cars; a car that doesn't shout about its qualities, but unfurls them at your chosen pace, until you realise you have discovered something greater than the sum of the parts.

Corso Marche said: I was never one for using stopwatches, I just drive for the enjoyment of it. Given what you have as a reference point in the chim and evo i still think that you will find it underwhelming especially once the novelty of owning one wears off. But when you do find one to test dont pootle in town but give it some stick on the right roads for 30 mins and then sleep on it and then see whether the need to scratch that itch outweighs what you dont necessarily get in terms of thrills when behind the wheel

plenty said: Good clarification. I would add that IMO these cars are relatively understated and it takes a while for them to get under your skin. They don't have a charismatic powerplant, they're not especially quick, and there isn't a single feature that really stands out and commands immediate and outright attention and lust like a TVR's noise or an Elise's turn-in. Which means it's entirely possible to be underwhelmed on a test drive. Give it time, however, and the subtleties reveal themselves: the poise, the versatility, the build quality and depth of engineering. I can understand why some people say these cars lack soul; they are left-brain cars, introverted cars; a car that doesn't shout about its qualities, but unfurls them at your chosen pace, until you realise you have discovered something greater than the sum of the parts. That's precisely how I've come to truly enjoy my 968 Sport, it's ace!

RC said: Corso Marche said: I was never one for using stopwatches, I just drive for the enjoyment of it. Given what you have as a reference point in the chim and evo i still think that you will find it underwhelming especially once the novelty of owning one wears off. But when you do find one to test dont pootle in town but give it some stick on the right roads for 30 mins and then sleep on it and then see whether the need to scratch that itch outweighs what you dont necessarily get in terms of thrills when behind the wheel No - I disagree. If all someone's looking for is grunt, then none of the std 944 or 968 variants will do. But if someone's looking for great balance, incredible feedback, tactility, adjustability, to be truly engaged and to really learn to drive then I don't think it gets better than the 968. Buy a good car. Refresh the suspension (I'm a KW v3 man myself), new bushes and a full geo by Chris at Centre Gravity and you'll have one of the best handling cars in the world.

The sweetest thing about these cars is how you can go through understeer and oversteer smoothly all in the same corner. A well set up car has fantastically adjustable on the limit handling, I really did find my S2 wonderful on track hence why its become a race car. I think Big Dave is spot on in his what he says, the cars only really come alive at more than 90% something you will only ever do on track (unless crazy).

plenty said: If you're going to try an NA iteration, be sure to do so in its natural environment;: punted hard down your twistiest local country road, making full use of the wide powerband, carrying massive speed into the corners, enjoying its balance, driving position, throttle response, and the rich feedback given through all control interfaces. Sensible head time,,, If you drive your car like that . Im glad you dont live round our way... You nutter, as you defo will find the nearest hedge, or dry stone wall... Especially the "massive speed" bit.. Thats why so many of "our" cars are ending up in the breakers yards...Smashed up.. If you want to drive like that then GET on track....That way, if you do "go off" youl only injure yourself + not a oncoming driver etc etc ... How on earth you can extract the full experience from the 944/968 cars on todays roads is beyond me... Dont get me wrong, i like a "sprited" drive now and again.. BUT there is a limit to what you can acheive... In fact scratch the above, as the more that get written off will only help the residuals...

If going around corners quickly and under control on a clear stretch of country road in a well-balanced car equates to behaving like a "nutter", then I along with probably the vast majority of the people on this forum are nutters. Thankfully, I believe most would agree that given the right conditions, it's entirely possible to experience an exhilarating drive on the road and also be completely safe and responsible.

big - dave said: the more that get written off will only help the residuals... Hear hear

+ plenty of spare parts in the breakers

will_968 said: RC said: Corso Marche said: I was never one for using stopwatches, I just drive for the enjoyment of it. Given what you have as a reference point in the chim and evo i still think that you will find it underwhelming especially once the novelty of owning one wears off. But when you do find one to test dont pootle in town but give it some stick on the right roads for 30 mins and then sleep on it and then see whether the need to scratch that itch outweighs what you dont necessarily get in terms of thrills when behind the wheel No - I disagree. If all someone's looking for is grunt, then none of the std 944 or 968 variants will do. But if someone's looking for great balance, incredible feedback, tactility, adjustability, to be truly engaged and to really learn to drive then I don't think it gets better than the 968. Buy a good car. Refresh the suspension (I'm a KW v3 man myself), new bushes and a full geo by Chris at Centre Gravity and you'll have one of the best handling cars in the world. Where did the OP say he was looking for balance and all that stuff and if that's what he wanted why would he test drive a 944 turbo? Read the post where he refers to the others cars and its apparent that part of their appeal was their grunt as well as other characteristics. And if not, Id say an Delta Integrale is as good as it gets on the feedback and tactility type stuff? Don't get me wrong I love my CS and all that but is it really that good... maybe back in the day but is it one of the best handling cars in the world now? Don't know, not driven enough of them. Im just not convinced that he will get that much out of it coming from the cars he has....

No one should buy an twenty-year old, medium to high mileage car still on it's original suspension & expect handling miracles. Condition is paramount. The factory suspension can be vastly improved upon by using modern premium aftermarket componentry. Tyre technology has also improved hugely in the last twenty years - so there's plenty of room for improvement there. In what condition are the LSD clutch plates? There are better LSD diffs than that supplied by Porsche as standard. The importance of overhauls, maintenance & improvement cannot be overstated. Get a car which has been sorted by someone who know's what they're doing & you'll be fine.

Penguinracer said: No one should buy an twenty-year old, medium to high mileage car still on it's original suspension & expect handling miracles. Condition is paramount. The factory suspension can be vastly improved upon by using modern premium aftermarket componentry. Tyre technology has also improved hugely in the last twenty years - so there's plenty of room for improvement there. In what condition are the LSD clutch plates? There are better LSD diffs than that supplied by Porsche as standard. The importance of overhauls, maintenance & improvement cannot be overstated. Get a car which has been sorted by someone who know's what they're doing & you'll be fine. Well said that man... My thoughts entirely...

A 968 or turbo isn't going to seem like a big deal compared to a chim or integrale, a STI or Mitsi Evo would run rings round any of them.

blade7 said: A 968 or turbo isn't going to seem like a big deal compared to a chim or integrale, a STI or Mitsi Evo would run rings round any of them. I can’t comment on the Evo, but I have a 944 Turbo and I drive an STI as a company car. The STI isn’t a patch on the ’44. Totally different league of car.

I don't want this thread to go off on a tangent here, but IMHO comparing a 944/968/Chim/integrale to any more modern machinery isn't a fair comparison. They were all contemporary models at the same time in history, and thus should be judged and compared in such a fashion. They'll never stack up to more modern machinery, things will always move on. But I'd still pick an integrale over a newer STI or Evo purely because of the way it interracts with the driver and is 110% dependent on the driver inputs and control. Some of the newer Subaru's & Mitsubishi's nearly make it too easy at times; even though they'd leave an integrale sitting in their dust cloud. Likewise, I'll maintain any possible purchase of a 944/968 to a high order, but I won't be spending a small mortgage on aftermarket gear to make it go, drive, or handle like modern machinery. I'd like a good example of how the cars originally left Porsche, maybe with some small sensible improvements, but not a mutation from what Porsche originally intended with state-of-the art components under the skin which may or may not leave any of the original car's character intact.

Personally stock 968 suspension is more than you need in a road car, I have never understood these ppl that complain so much about the suspension that they have to have KW or whatever. One thing I would say though is there is a world of difference between old tired and fresh new standard components. We replaced all 4 shocks on mine because I felt the ride quality was to harsh, well afterwards the ride was still harsh but the car felt so rock steady on the road it was an amazing improvement IMHO. I also don't agree that it is unfair to compare to modern machinery. I tend to alternate between the 68 and our 08 MX-5 2.0 sport, that car has factory LSD, bilsteins, mazdaspeed lowering springs etc. but cross country it just can't match the stability of the 68. The ride breaks down on rough roads and yet on things like motorway slip roads it never feels as planted and stable as the 68 even though the 68 body rolls much more. The biggest thing I dislike about my 68 is that as an 18 yr old car it spends far to much time and money being repaired. I would have felt much better about the car if I had bought it 10 years ago when they could be found in much better condition with low miles.

Yes, I know. But they're not the same. I could never put my finger on any one thing; but the steering feel and how the nose of the car responds to steering inputs and direction changes just never sat with me as impressively or organically as a properly kept integrale did. Even though the Subaru would've been a faster point-to-point car, requiring less effort on behalf of the driver to carry speed. Edited by Corso Marche on Saturday 26th June 01:12

And just why is a flat out drive down a bumpy back road, any sort of arbiter?

Well, this isn't what I intended when I started seriously looking at 968s about a month ago, but suffice to say that the course has deviated a little from the original plan. Picked up a 3.0 944S2 yesterday with 125k on the clock. Some history, tidy enough example, drives well, few small jobs to tidy it up, nice and tight mechanically with a good strong engine and handles nicely. Best bit is I got it for a steal; so the 968 fund will be left in the bank for now and kept for future use whilst I get used to and enjoy the 944.

Congratulations. Post some pics!

Congratulations OP - please keep us posted of your experiences. Incidentally I'm going in the reverse direction as you - next car will almost certainly be a TVR (although I'm keeping the '68).

Cheers, and thanks for the well wishes. Pics will have to wait, I want to give it a proper clean and polish first. And seeing as I'm tied up with work 7am-10pm for the first three days of this week and heading for Goodwood on Thurs I reckon it could be next week before that happens !! plenty said: Incidentally I'm going in the reverse direction as you - next car will almost certainly be a TVR (although I'm keeping the '68). Fair play. Take your time and find the right car and you won't regret it. I'm not finished with the TVR fold yet, hopefully I aim to get a Tamora or Tuscan 2 at some point in the future. Fingers crossed and lots of hard-work between now and then of course. Edited by Corso Marche on Monday 28th June 08:13

Some interesting comments re the driving of 944/968. I sold my 968CS about 4 yrs ago now. The biggest problem owning one of them (and to some extent the RX8 I had) is that they are known to be such great handling cars. As a result you feel you should be cornering reasonably hard/fast to get the best out of it. Yes they will potter around but to me the only place to exploit the great balance is on the track. Loads of cars are faster in a straight line than a 968 but thats not what it was about (you can tell I had a RX8 for nearly 3yrs, trying to convince people that it wasnt all about straightline speed ). Daves right though, fast road driving is a pain in the arse what with cameras, horses, cyclists etc.

CarbonBlackM5 said: Daves right though, fast road driving is a pain in the arse what with cameras, horses, cyclists etc. Not up here in Scotland, it’s not …

ph123 said: The very fact that there are fewer Clubsports and their pedigree puts them way ahead imho if you are interested in protecting your investment ... Clubsports an all-time great. Not strictly true, there was only 306 sport models V 1,232 CS models produced Yes the sport is a uk model only, but the fact remains it’s much rarer than the CS Edited by Jessi on Sunday 10th May 17:57 Edited by Jessi on Sunday 10th May 17:59