Tiptronic 996?

I am returning to wanting a Porsche after many years gone by. I have extensive experience with the "old air-cooled" generations. I was in PCA and had my own shop for a years, long ago in age of dinosaurs. Looking at $$ these days, I wish I had kept my modified 930 and 935. I hope they still survive somewhere. However, now is a different game, OK by me. I have always had manual transmissions and know next to zero about the "automatic" versions. I am looking for a 996 Carrera 4S Coupe in reasonable condition. Hopefully IMS and RMS have been fixed or avoided and a 50k mile service done correctly according to the God Porsche. Being "new" to rennlist I have not seen much mention of Tiptronic transmissions, aside from replacing them with a manual in various build-repair threads. Unfortunate, the only C4S cars I have found in the last 3-4 month are Tiptronic cars. What is consensus on Tiptronic cars, good-bad experiences, reliability, and so on? I do not plan to track a 20 year old C4S, I just want to drive it, and be reasonable on the road. OK. "spirited" may be in there somewhere as well as the usual awe on Porsche engineering. I will not overlook Porsche design that requires 2 elbows and monkey hands and arms to change a simple item somewhere with an unimaginable unobtainium cost-no-object tool. I want an occasional driver, as weather here in mountains with 4 seasons can get iffy even in a proper 4WD truck. I don't need a trailer hitch on a C4S, as I alluded to something like that in humor. Any opinions, evaluations, or thoughts would be appreciated about a Tiptronic C4S. If a Tip is the only path available for my budget, then I will accept it and put it in the garage. Thanks in advance for your response. YMMV

My C4S was a tiptronic, and I'm one who swapped it out for a 6 speed. I didn't hate the tiptronic, it was just what I could find at the time. A big part of the fuel for me to swap in a manual was to prove all the naysayers wrong! lol I rocked the tiptronic through a few spirited mountain drives and it never missed a beat. In my situation, I feel the 6 speed optimizes the 4.0 I have. However after driving a 987 Cayman S with a tiptronic for a few days this week, I will say the 6 speed suits the car better. I kept thinking the car was hanging in the wrong gear and not shifting into 5th on the highways. It seemed to hang in the gears too long before up/downshifting. Manual mode is much better but I so much prefer flappy paddles over the buttons. I'm in construction so driving with my steel toe boots in traffic was a breeze with the tiptronic but that's really the only thing I can say was truly better in the tip. It doesn't bother me at all in the 6 speed. Now the flappy paddled pdk in my Panamera GTS is so much better than the tiptronic. I'm looking at 991's now and it will probably be a pdk.

My two cents and perspective: I daily drive a 996.1 nb coupe tip and also have a 993 cab stick. I would give the 996 tip a chance, it�s fun in manual mode and easy in auto mode. I like the 996 tip as a daily, especially because my commute involves a bunch of traffic, lights, and parking decks. I leave it in auto for all that. For spirited driving, i switch to manual mode & use the finger tabs on the wheel, which are fun once you get used to it. Otherwise, leaving it in auto is disappointing, as the tip races to 5th gear and keeps the engine out of the power band (for fuel economy). Frustrating, but easily overriden with the buttons (which become second nature like driving a stick, but even easier). The 993 stick is way more fun to drive in a spirited way, no doubt (esp with fisters, pss9s etc). And the air cooled experience is unique. But i find myself jumping in the 996 tip more often even on weekends because it�s so easy to drive around town and still fun with the buttons. And the tip is supposedly bulletproof, which attracted me to the 996 as a daily. Of course, your mileage may vary. Happy to answer any questions.

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Hi I enjoy Tiptronic. One big issue is if you worry about IMS, it's a bigger job. It's meant to be a lesser driving experience. I don't find it so with an LN3.4 to 3.8 swap increasing torque and response in every gear, IMS Solution. 996.1 and 996.2 are differant transmissions ZF and Mercedes both easily serviced. I regretted the Tip a bit living in Canberra Australia, population 470,000 good place for a manual. I was relocated to Sydney (population 5.3 million) where traffic grid lock can happen any time. I have a solid serve of arthritis. That's where the 996 watercooled airconditioning/heating demisting and a Tip make you forgive the whole combination. As Tips are not wanted as much, you can low ball...your offers

If you had your fair share of sticks, then get the Tip and install paddles on it.....you will be happy !! If you have NOT had your fair share of sticks, then get you some more !!

The Tiptronic appears to be very reliable from what I've seen (never owned one myself). The tip cars bring less $ but also seem to keep their owners pretty well entertained. I see no reason NOT to buy a tip, from a practicality or enjoyment perspective. But if you're "settling" for a tip car because that's all you find in the market, wait a while; they built a crapton of 996's and your car WILL pop up.

I've owned a 03 996 C2 with tip for over 6 years now, put over 90K miles on it. I won't go back to a manual, too much fun shifting way faster! Another thing to consider is maintenance, with a tip no clutch changes, and no messing with the shifter cables. I've seen lots of problems with keeping the shifter cables adjusted properly. No worries with the tip. Changing the fluid/filter on a tip is relatively easy.

After driving my 5 speed 986 for a couple of years, I picked up a '05 996.2 C4S with a tip. Main reason I went for a tip was so my wife could drive it comfortably too. After a year of driving the 996, I'm fine with the tip. I drive in manual mode with the paddles half the time and usually downshift a gear or two manually when I'm entering tight curves or sometimes just when approaching a stop from higher speeds. Just noticed during oil change the trans is seeping some fluid and my indy says the gasket on the bottom pan tends to harden and leak over time. No dipstick to check fluid level, just the fill hole to check when the car is up.

I had a triptronic and loved it. Was a much better car for city and heavy traffic driving. But I still longed for another manual 996 and as we all know, manual cars are more engaging because it takes more of the body to operate. That sensory connection is one reason why the manual cars are more attractive to sport car enthusiasts. When it all boils down, you need to purchase a Porsche car that fits your desire for fun even if it means you have to pay a little more. If you heart desires true manual, then go for it, but it find that Tiptronic will feed the need, then more power to you. I think they BOTH have merits.

A Big Thank You for all of you who replied to my question. For e30rapidic, I spent hours reading your entire thread about your rebuild and trans change. Others have also mentioned reliability and lower cost without Clutch Replacement, good points IMO. I like many of the replies and respect your evaluations. I am on the fence of Manual/Tip, so not cast in stone. Unlike the government, I am budget restrained and can't spend more than I can afford to get to first base. If a Tip may cost less, and still acts like "Porsche" in M "Mode", then I can seriously consider it. Every one of my "now Long Gone" Porsches was a stick, so why not. I may have "Rickey-Racer" thoughts, but do not do that these days. I'll take a corner at some "GAWD-Awful Speed" in my truck ( so sayest the friend!) just to scramble him a little, but in general, those days are over. I am not afraid to remove engine/trans for some problem, I just don't want to do it any more. If members have specific suggestions on what to look for/ills/problems that may be there for a +75k miles Tip I'd like to learn about it. It seems I have countless hours now reading about 996 problems and what to observe/discover and so on prior to purchase. While a 996 cost is low on the P spectrum, I am not made out of $$. I appreciate any input from rennlist members. cpaciba. YMMV

You can get a 996 Turbo Tip for about what a manual C4S goes for.... at least here in the States.

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I had 2 Turbos, fast and fun. I don't want or need another one, prefer more "conservative" I spoze. YMMV

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I would definitely drive a Tip and then decide. I had a 996.1 Tip Carrera 4 I bought CPO when they first came out that I didn't really enjoy (my wife loved it). Now I have 996.1 6-speed/coupe/2wd and absolutely love it. Between the 6-speed (108 lb weight savings over tip in the 996.1) and the 2wd (131 weight savings over awd in 996.1), it makes a huge difference. The Tip dampened the responsiveness and the awd isn't as fun to drive in addition to the extra weight. The 996.2 Tip is better than the 996.1, so that may fair better. If you want a Tip for traffic, that's one thing, but I would never ever take a Tip just for cost savings if you want a manual. Between your air-cooled experience and not wanting a Turbo, I almost feel like you'd be better off getting an early 996.1 6-speed coupe -- which you can easily do for less than the C4S Tip budget. The C4S is a significantly heavier car -- a C4S Coupe 6-speed is 339 lbs heavier than a 996.1 6-sp/2wd/Coupe, and a C4S Tip is 460 lbs heavier. If you want a 4wd 996.1/6-speed, then the C4S increases are reduced by 108lbs (and the C4 price might be slightly lower). I don't think there is any car whose driving feel depends more on options than the 996 -- I would drive a lot of 996's (specifically C4S Tip, C4S 6-speed, and 996.1/6sp/Coupe). Once you've done that, you'll know which model is the car for you.

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It's probably a little more complicated than the 50k service being properly done to ensure an issue-free future. Here is a C4S on BaT with a 4.0 L FSI-rebuilt engine -- this is probably as safe as you can get with a 3.6 liter motor: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...omments-anchor

This is an example where spending more may well result in spending less. Quality of a Flat 6 engine. Likely hood of holding onto the car longer as it's fun etc.

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This...I use my current C4S Tip as a daily and have the Works Bell Paddles on it. Having had a 996 Turbo manual, I will take the tip in traffic every day and it does fine for a bit of weekend fun. Unless you are going 9+/10 in the canyons or trackign the car, the Tip is quick and fun enough and much easier to live with as a daily

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Is yours the one I see at Wyong? In which case you'd have seen the work done on mine. Or is there a doppleganger interstate?

One other thing... you mention IMS/RMS but the real issue with these cars is bore scoring. Read up on that and make sure you buy a borescoped car so you're sure it doesn't need a rebuild soon. (IMS is also a real issue.) I would also opt for a 6-speed 996.1 if you're budget limited. Much more bang for the buck.

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I agree about the bore scoring concern. I think a Turbo Tip would be a better choice than a C4S. The Turbo has the Mezger engine that is more robust than the M96 engine, has the C4S aesthetic, has awd, the additional power would help offset the Tip even more, and the Turbo is likely to appreciate more (though still limited by the Tip). The non-S Turbo Tip weighs 3495 lbs (vs 3395 Turbo manual), which is only 134 lb more than a C4S Tip (but with much more power). That said, A Turbo Tip weighs 536 lbs more than 996.1 coupe/6sp/2wd, which is why many prefer the lightest base cars from a driving fun perspective. Of course, the power of the Turbo is also a hoot. I know the OP said he didn't want another Turbo -- but my guess is that is a general opinion that doesn't consider the nuances of choices that are very specific the 996's. I suspect a Turbo Tip would be the better choice for him than a C4S Tip given the more robust engine (and other advantages mentioned). All this said, I think driving a base 996 (6sp/2wd/coupe), and both a Tip and 6-sp version of C4S (or Turbo) is a prerequisite to making an informed choice on 996 models. They all drive very differently.

Yeah I love my manual Turbo but the price tag is different from a C4S. Very nice though not to worry about that engine anymore. The Turbo also does the dual thing very well: it�s a comfortable daily but it also hauls *** when you want it to. It does need an open road and/or Autobahn to shine!

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Auto trans usually don't have too much of a "lifetime" concept unless previous ownership abused it. When I got mine it was rough to downshift so I pulled the battery for a reset and flushed the fluid twice. Now buttery smooth for all daily driving activities (and no slipping above 2000rpm) at 111k miles. The 996.2 Tip is beautiful for what it's designed to do. It's not PDK, it doesn't rip downshifts (you have to heel-toe funny to get it rev-match without jerking), but it does upshift well and the gear ratios are good for cruising. The Mercedes transmissions in other applications regularly go over 200k miles, I've seen several examples in the 3's and 4's. Frankly I wouldn't worry about it in comparison to the M96.

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That woudl be the one Simon does all the work on teh car (except for the stuff I do my self). Definitely seen yours there as well. He's got the next stage of the modifications for the sitting in the corner at the moment.

Here are a couple of past threads that discussed the merit of the Tiptronic: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...e-driving.html https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ce-tricks.html I've driven my C4S with Tiptronic for 7 years now, and do prefer it over the manual. Only thing I would add to prior comments is I wish Porsche had put a manual shifting method on the stick. My Porsche 968 had this, you slide the stick to the right and it can then be used to shift up and down. Same with my Audi A4 which has both paddle shifters and the stick can be used in manual mode. But for some reason the 996 designers chose to offer only the shifter buttons.

I'll be the rebel here. Porsche's Tiptronic is a good transmission, used in Mercedes and Audi as well. However, in 2009 and later Porsche introduced the PDK transmission, which is in another league compared to the Tip. If you can stretch the budget, and manual is not a consideration, the PDK is the better choice. You should drive both versions of the car. Also, the 996 and 997 are going to be closer to the air cooled cars, as the later models have grown in both size and creature comforts.

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Hello! I bought my 99 996 Coupe Tip in Nov. '22. it had 79K miles on the clock. Bay area Owned. Sold at the Oakland Dealer. and lived in the bay its whole life. and im in SF. Tips are great if it fits you lifestyle. What i mean by that, is if its a daily. If you live in a city. If you commute in a city. If you dont want sit on clutch all day, on every block. and if youre looking for something "casual" and easy to just get in and drive. but also have a nice looking car. That pretty much describes my reasoning of buying a Tip. (if you live in bay area, id be more than happy to let you take a drive in mine to give you a sense of how it handles). I searched for a 996 for basically an entire year. it was always going to be a 6spd manual. but i could not find a car with lower than 100k miles for under 25k. i wanted to get a car with under 100k. when i came across the one i bought, it had 78k for $27.5k. i test drove it, it clearly wasnt as engaging as a manual. and it clearly isnt no PDK. the tip transmission, im not going to lie, can feel a bit sluggish. or shift to 4th gear when your only going 25mph lol. But the TipTronic is bullet proof. its a pretty reliable transmission despite all the hate it gets. Like Public Enemy said, Dont Believe The Hype. that sits very true with the 996 tipper. I ended up buying the car the following day or 2 and settled at $25k flat. I may have over paid, i wish i offered less lol. but its still been a great car. by the way, this is my first P car. I get my oil changed every 4k miles. start the engine, and drive right away. i dont go over 3k rpm until everything is up to temp. Never let the engine warm up in idle. Besides the little "mods" i wanted to do. it hasnt been a huge hit on my wallet (fingers crossed). up next is all control arm replacements. theyll be here next week. All ive "needed" to do, are the standard oil changes. thats it (fingers crossed again). however i will be needing the control arms now since my bearings are shot. but thats gonna happen later this month. I've actually grown to accept the Tip for what i is. Its my daily driver. and im not here babying the car. its never going to be a collector car. im going to drive it like its meant to be driven. Not sure if im being insightful on your decision, this is mainly a description of my experience. and you can take it for what it is. hopefully that helps. If i had the choice of doing it again, i would probably look into a 996.1 C4. mainly so i can take it to tahoe lol. but other than that. ive been very happy with my 99 C2. PS - the 99s are the last 911 with a cable throttle (i believe), and the 99s, imo, will be the more desirable 996s in the future. due to a few notable reasons. all hail the 996.

I have a '99 with the automatic transmission. The car has 172k miles and still going strong. This is my commuter so the automatic makes it easy in traffic but do miss a manual at times.

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This matches my experience with a 996.1 Tip exactly. If you need an auto for stop-and-go traffic, it might be a viable option, but not worth "settling for" an automatic when you really want a manual. Although I've not driven one, the 996.2 Tip is reported to perform better by all accounts. I'd recommend evaluating a C4 before you go that route to make sure it's your cup of tea. We did use our 996.1 C4 Tip in the snow with winter tires (it was my wife's daily driver year round) and it was quite competent. That said, I've heard the rear engine weight over the rear tires makes the 996 competent in snow even with 2wd, but I have no direct experience with that (our current C2 never sees snow).

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I was driving my much-mod 930 VERY carefully @ 45-50 mph trying to get over Donner Pass (Sierra Nevadas, CA-NV) in 1" of snow. No sudden acceleration, jam brakes, etc. The heavy engine (I guess) just "lost it" and the backend went swinging to the mountainside. Racing, auto-x and DE event training kicked in immediately and I "caught the car at 180 degrees" (meaning backwards!), in the same lane, going the same 45-50 mph. The Camaro dude behind me looked pretty surprised, and I hand motioned that I was going to slow down and stop. My wife in right seat nearly freaked. I stopped, turned around. Some rubber neck gawkers were looking at me and ran into each other 20-30 yards past where I was. Both me and the Camaro guy decided to "Get Out of Dodge" and left the scene. We both continued over the pass slowly. We passed the wrecked van and something else with a hood bent and plopped open , folks standing around watching us go by slowly. My thought was "we didn't have an accident, you bozos did, bye". So maybe the heavier weigh engine is not so good on I80 banking in any amount of snow? Dunno. Now I don't commute anywhere, gave that up for Lent. I'd like ANY 996 but it must be a 4, so I may was well get the C4S. In the last 2-3 weeks all the Tips have disappeared, and 3 manuals came up fitting the budget. Whatever, I am at the age that newer models don't interest me. Approaching Geezerhood. I am somewhat in BFE, so I will probably have to fix a lot of "issues" myself. Besides that, I like the look of a C4S and it "may" be easier to work on/in. When all is said and done, a Porsche is just a pile of nuts and bolts and metal, amazing yes, but not a god to worship. Drive it, break it, fix it, drive it again. I liked De Jeeper approach to take something else and remove all the old gizmos etc, and replace it with a simpler version, better and still amazing. I am not a fan of garage queens or concours cars. BTDT, no more. I did meet Peter Porsche along the way. He and Hans Fuhrmann "fixed" my Non-start concours Carrera on the road one time. Just Fantastic! You do your way, my way may be different. I hope I do not offend anyone's own personal view, this is just me, I mean no harm. OK, I'll say 3 Hail Mary's and 2 Ferdinand Porsches. I can't genuflect, bad knee. I appreciate all of your comments, they make sense in the real world of crowed cities. I like real world replies, not dealer BS or doubletalk, speak with crooked tongue. If I find a Tip, OK, if not, then keep looking for a 996, 6MT or Tip. I have some irons in the fire now, we will see if the fire goes out or I get to go to the party. Dunno. YMMV

BTW - Look at this Video - A "little" more than I would do, but you get the idea. You Tube My car/truck is not allowed to hibernate. YMMV

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The important thing is to drive all of the combinations. I don't think there is any car that drives more differently based upon options selected than the 996 -- look at the weight differences between models. Look at the stark contrast between my 996.1 C4 Tip bought CPO with 6k miles and my C2 6-speed I bought with 68k miles (disliked one, the other is a "forever" car). Somebody might drive the same two cars and have the opposite opinion -- and they'd be right for themselves -- but nobody will say those two cars drive alike, because they feel like very different cars in the way they drive. Only you can decide what works for you -- everybody's priorities are different, but the options make a huge difference, so test drive as many variations as you can. For your 930, what tires did you have on? I was driving my 3.2 Carrera with summer tires and got caught in an unexpected snow storm. It was almost impossible to drive in the snow with summer tires. I was barely rolling towards a stopped bus -- going maybe 5 or 10 mph and started braking probably 150ft before it. The car just slid for what seemed like eternity -- couldn't brake and couldn't steer -- all happening in slow motion. I was certain I would hit the bus, but it finally stopped about 5 feet short of impact. Summer tires you'd use at an autocross do not work at all in snow or even the extreme cold. I was shocked how hopeless those tires were. You need winter tires for winter for a C4 or C2. The 996 also has traction control that your 930 (and my 3.2 Carrera) didn't have. If you look, you'll see plenty of people who say a 996 C2 with proper winter tires is very good in the snow. Obviously, a C4 can be better, especially if snow driving is a common occurence, but I don't think you're 930 experience or my 3.2 Carrera experience is any reflection of how a 996 C2 with winter tires drives in the snow. I agree with the above on most things, but bore scoring can cost as much as the car purchase price to fix. Once the cylinders are out of round, the engine wear will very quickly and the only solution is a complete engine rebuild. It's just important to know the vulnerabilities with the 996. Your original post talked about IMS and the 50k service, that isn't the full picture. None of this is to discourage you -- hope you get the best 996 you can -- but it's important to know as much as you can to make the best decision for your priorities.