New Clutch Etc Sounds Like Tractor When Clutch Depressed

I just finished a 2.5-month (weekend only) job on my '04 C4S doing the IMS solution, UAOS (and everything else while in there), exhaust, and installing a newly rebuilt transmission with new clutch etc. I've been really excited to finally drive the car I bought just 3 months ago, but I find after taking it off the lift that the car sounds like a tractor when the clutch is depressed. There is a very strong rattling coming from the transmission area when depressing the clutch at all, and it doesn't go away until I let out on the clutch. The noise follows the RPMs of the engine as well while in gear and in neutral. I'm not good enough at troubleshooting transmissions to know what the issue might be, so I'm hoping you guys can help. Videos are linked below, and I can make more of something specific if it might help. I am pretty sure I'll have to take the whole damn thing apart again, but I can't even guess what I did wrong the first time. Thanks for any suggestions. You Tube You Tube

Clutch disc installed backward ?

What flywheel did you use? The one from before the work, or replacement? -Tom

Did you get the upgraded throw-out bearing and pivot arm?

I got new Sachs OEM kit for everything. Pivot arm is the new one as well. @Porschetech3, the reversed clutch disc was my first thought too. I THOUGHT I was really careful about that and matched up the new one with the old based on my pictures, but now I'm not so sure. Things would still work normally if it was reversed, I assume? One thing I found just a little ago was that the noise is NOT present when the car is first started. It is only after 2-3 minutes that the noise starts and then it seems to get progressively worse until it sounds like the second video.

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Did you by chance take photos at every step? If so, care to share? That's something I'm **** about. Because sometimes I can't remember if I torqued bolts, put everything back correctly, and it haunts me. I always say... "The fuzziest picture is sharper than the best memory." That being said, here is my car and a picture of the OEM SACHS clutch going on... You can clearly see the correct orientation.

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Skip, what would happen if the clutch fork popped off the pivot pin in operation?

Don't drive it, is my suggestion. Sounds like what PT3 said, disc in backwards.... Good news is, if it only happens when pushing in the clutch, that pretty much rules out the tranny/engine and isolates it to the clutch. And your video sure doesn't sound like a throw out bearing. If clutch disc is in backward and catching on something every revolution, like on the flywheel bolts or parts of the flywheel, or pressure plate,,, could cause more damage. Also that would mean clutch really isn't disengaging all the way so tranny is dragging when you're switching gears. Good thing is, you've already pulled it apart once so know the ins and outs. 1 more time should be easier/quicker than the first time... If it were me, and had it all apart again, would also pull the flywheel and check your ims/rms install for any problems/leaks. Maybe even check your aos install for tight connections/leaks/seeps etc... Those 20 year old aos lines are brittle and break easy, much easier to do with tranny out. Just saying, as long as you're in there again,,, might as well take advantage of it for at least a double check,,, and or maybe other stuff like oil cooler seals... jmo

Here are the images. I took a picture of each step when taking it off and only one when everything was going back in.

Could it be a slave cylinder-related issue? Not seated correctly? I had a hell of a time getting it in there. It is new, but perhaps not engaging fully?

Edit - Stupidly posted that this would indicate my clutch was backward, but the info on the picture is still useful.

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Facing out would be the transmission side as opposed to the flywheel side.

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If the fork comes off the pivot pin/fulcrum the clutch would never disengage , but sounds like he had trouble getting the slave cyl in and may have knocked one side of the T/O bearing out of the fork..?. Any way the trans has to come back out, can probably see the problem / some marks where they should not be.....Probably not much damage, just some scuff marks and labor... Just don't drive it any more !! lol

Thanks for the replies. I woke up this morning realizing my post about the clutch being backward was totally wrong. I was looking so hard for a solution that I missed the obvious. I'll take everything off and hopefully something becomes apparent.

Just a friendly reminder that when attaching the pressure plate that you tighten screws gradually and do so in a criss cross pattern. Also when removing the plate. Possible to warp spring housing if you don't. I think PT3 recommends 23 ft.lbs. torque and. not reusing bolts.

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Right, Porsche had a problem with pressure plate bolts baking out and becoming lose after a while ( under warranty) I have seen of few of those in person, they issued a TSB to increase the torque to 23 ft/lbs with new bolts to correct the problem....

Did you change out your pilot bearing? If not installed you can get a pretty bad wobble that could make that sound, and eventually worse.

I suggest loctite 242 on the pressure plate bolts. I would also carefully inspect the pressure plate for any damage. Also the clutch fork can be interesting to get in place, that wire clip is not always so obvious how it fits. You're sure the flywheel was fully seated on the crank?

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I installed a new flywheel as well and that includes a new pilot bearing.

To update, I pulled the transmission today, and nothing really looks wrong. I had my transmission rebuilt by Brian Copans, and I sent pictures to him as I was working. He felt like the pressure plate seems to show some signs of rubbing, but it is nor clear how that is happening. The flywheel looks to be seated correctly, and the pressure plate was on there well. I am using the new 997 style fork, pin, clip, and grommet, but I don't see why that would be rubbing. All of the sites show the new fork as compatible with a 2004 C4S. Does anyone see anything that looks off?

The throwout bearing fork isn't on the pivot ball in that picture.

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Yes but that is just because he removed the pieces. If the pivot arm is that far off, the slave bearing would never engage and he wouldn't be able to drive the car. Jason, where did you get the clutch kit? I assume the kit comes with clutch plate, pressure plate, throw-out bearing? Did you also change out the pilot bearing? Spin it, see if it feels super smooth. Any crunchiness at all ? When there was noise, did you feel any pulsation with your foot on the clutch pedal? By the way, you should have considered jacking the car up on VERY SOLID jack stand (or get to a 2 post lift), idle the car and press on the clutch while someone is under the car with a stethoscope.

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Based on what you've shown... this ^^^ may be the answer. I think the transmission needs to go back to Brian for evaluation.

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I don't think he is there yet. 1. Clutch pedal out: Noise is not there when the gearbox input shaft is spinning along with the engine crank shaft. If there is a fault in the gearbox making that noise, it has to be there when the gear /. shaft /. axle is spinning. It's not doing that. 2. Clutch pedal in: Noise is present when the gearbox input shaft is disconnected and therefore nothing in the gearbox is spinning. That indicates 90% the noise is outside the gearbox.

I would check the cover. If it�s not disengaging properly that would make a noise when the clutch pedal is press in.

start it and see how the flywheel looks

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yup. Agreed. Just don�t depress the clutch.

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The clutch kit is from FCPEuro, as well as the flywheel kit from there. All parts are new. I did not feel any pulsation in the pedal when depressing it, which is a bit surprising. Once the noise starts, though, it continues evenly regardless of the pedal pressure. I plan to start the car while on the quick jacks and have someone listen more closely (if the sound is still there). I have the transmission reinstalled already, but I am having trouble with the slave cylinder (also new from FCP btw) again. I have ordered a new one because I don't trust the one I have currently. The pin and cover kept falling off and almost went into the bell housing, but I was able to fish it out. I got it installed, but the clutch pedal is now totally hard and won't move unless the bleeder is open.

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Correct, I am not ready to think it's the rebuild quite yet. When in gear, everything feels and sounds normal. I had to get 2nd gear rebuilt and it worked fine (it's as high as I dared go for the few minutes I tested the car). As soon as I touch the clutch, the sound gets strange.

To update - I got my new slave cylinder installed today. Prior to removing the slave cylinder, the clutch pedal was rock hard and wouldn't budge unless I released the bleeder valve and then it would go straight to the floor. I took this slave cylinder off and installed the newest one. Immediately after installing, the clutch was able to go to the floor, and it would stay there even without the bleeder open. After bleeding the line, the clutch felt totally normal. I got the rest of the car back together, started it up, and everything feels and sounds totally normal. No noises when the clutch is depressed, transmission shifts nicely, etc. At this point I can only guess it was a bad slave cylinder. I did tighten the pressure plate a few more ft lbs than originally, but otherwise no change. I don't know if I had a bad cylinder out of the box that got progressively worse or if it got damaged in the struggles getting it installed the first time around or what, but things seem ok now.

Makes sense that a bad and locked up slave cylinder would cause the noise. Good find.