GT4 - avoidance thread - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Might be worth starting a GT4 one? https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/67760111/clean-title-...

Great idea, do we know the full registration of that car?

GT4RS said: Great idea, do we know the full registration of that car? Not yet, only VN20*** as per the description?

Why weren’t the airbags triggered ? Looks like a substantial,impact !

Looks like my old car I sold in September … I’ll dig out the full plate tomorrow

If you look at the 360 view, it looks like it was wearing a private plate.

mrCraigyC said: Looks like my old car I sold in September … I’ll dig out the full plate tomorrow Which blue was that? A PTS colour? Looks a bit 'Mexico'.

thenobbler said: Which blue was that? A PTS colour? Looks a bit 'Mexico'. Just Miami Blue For everyone - full number plate was VN20 NBY by the way

mrCraigyC said: Just Miami Blue For everyone - full number plate was VN20 NBY by the way Thanks - Chassis - WP0ZZZ98ZLK284369

Very symmetrical looking crash, all four corners? How's that happened, nose to tail motorway shunt?

wow that's insane some poor fcker is gonna get mullered

I genuinely cannot believe this car is clear on the HPI register, and the crash is unrecorded. Any future buyer is going to be oblivious to this! So for the sake of Google crawls and the hope any potential future buyer searches the plate before buying VN20NBY was originally registered in March 2020, then sold by a OPC again in March 2021 It was then sold in September 2021 and it had a private plate put on it, the private plate was switched back in December 2021 and a new logbook issued with the original plate, presumably after the crash happened and the owner transferred the pate to their new car and/or retention. Registration Reg VN20NBY VN20 NBY VN 20 NBY Chassis number WP0ZZZ98ZLK284369 VIN WP0ZZZ98ZLK284369 Vehicle Indication Number WP0ZZZ98ZLK284369 Miami Blue GT4 crashed accident smashed unrecorded HPI clear HPI check Pictures for preservation of condition prior to repair: Edited by kmpowell on Monday 17th January 16:34 Edited by kmpowell on Monday 17th January 16:35

Experian check may show it as a recorded loss. Sometimes you can't just rely on HPI check

Good reason not to take your Porsche to a "run what you bung" track day. Your insurance wont cover you!

Which OPC sold it after the crash?

Maybe it wasn't insured. Similar to the 17 plate 458 thread where that car was subject to a £100k rebuild after hitting a tree after being collected on delivery and sustaining heavy nearside and frontal damage. Evidently the 458 wasn't insured so therefore no record of a claim. Being sold by a dealer who makes no reference whatsoever to the history.

CNW25 said: Which OPC sold it after the crash? No OPC has sold it after the crash. The car was crashed and is currently for sale on CoPart being bid on: https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/67760111/clean-title-... The point of this thread is to hopefully ensure the person who might see it for sale in the future, will see the history. As it stands it's not recorded anywhere and is 'clear', so anyone could buy it, fix it, and then attempt to hide the real crash history.

politeperson said: Good reason not to take your Porsche to a "run what you bung" track day. Your insurance wont cover you! As you guessing, or is that what happened?

politeperson said: Good reason not to take your Porsche to a "run what you bung" track day. Your insurance wont cover you! My insurance fully covers my GT4 on track days...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304324004701?hash=item4...

Dan911 said: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304324004701?hash=item4... Looks very suspect,and if one reviews the sellers history his last few purchases have been with salvage parts companies. So not only is the car itself totalled but the replacement parts he has gathered as replacements are salvage parts from other totalled Porsches. Maybe thats the norm?

politeperson said: Good reason not to take your Porsche to a "run what you bung" track day. Your insurance wont cover you! Nonsensical comment.

Bit of a random one, i thought i saw the Blue Cayman at the start of this thread. car just after the crash must have just occurred, During an autumnal shower, it was into a stone wall by a church on the A470 i was delivering a Car up to Anglesey on the 30th October 2021..

Plenty of cars don’t go on the register. https://www.carveto.co.uk/blog/write-off-scam/

grasum said: Bit of a random one, i thought i saw the Blue Cayman at the start of this thread. car just after the crash must have just occurred, During an autumnal shower, it was into a stone wall by a church on the A470 i was delivering a Car up to Anglesey on the 30th October 2021.. Which part of the A470?

Another unrecorded one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PORSCHE-CAYMAN-718-GT4-...

Blimey. Like the 'unrecorded because Japanese import' description.

Wow, what a mess! If the engine really is fine, it's the only bit that i! Mileage is "low" - can't they read the odometer?? That's worse that the original car on this thread....barge poles and all that.

The ECU wires being "cut" would explain the mileage being unreadable. However surprised at the amount of rust on roof and wing must have been left out a while to go that brown. Anyway someone must spent quite a bit to ship that wreck over from Japan , sea freight containers are not cheap these days. I'm not seeing that much as salvage recoverable other than the engine if it is really undamaged.

came across this GT4 today. unsure if this is the exact intention of the thread, but here goes.... https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/44746492/clean-title-...

kmpowell said: I genuinely cannot believe this car is clear on the HPI register, and the crash is unrecorded. Any future buyer is going to be oblivious to this! So for the sake of Google crawls and the hope any potential future buyer searches the plate before buying VN20NBY was originally registered in March 2020, then sold by a OPC again in March 2021 It was then sold in September 2021 and it had a private plate put on it, the private plate was switched back in December 2021 and a new logbook issued with the original plate, presumably after the crash happened and the owner transferred the pate to their new car and/or retention. Registration Reg VN20NBY VN20 NBY VN 20 NBY Chassis number WP0ZZZ98ZLK284369 VIN WP0ZZZ98ZLK284369 Vehicle Indication Number WP0ZZZ98ZLK284369 Miami Blue GT4 crashed accident smashed unrecorded HPI clear HPI check Pictures for preservation of condition prior to repair: Warning! This car is currently back on the market again… https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202305227... Buyer beware.

Would that be a fair and decent price for a similar GT4 without such an eventful history?

Cripes this is so outrageous. I can’t believe it’s not recorded anywhere. Is that really the case ?

A lot of YouTubers keep plugging (being paid to advertise) Car Vertical for history checks. Is it not recorded on there?

kmpowell said: kmpowell said: I genuinely cannot believe this car is clear on the HPI register, and the crash is unrecorded. Any future buyer is going to be oblivious to this! So for the sake of Google crawls and the hope any potential future buyer searches the plate before buying VN20NBY was originally registered in March 2020, then sold by a OPC again in March 2021 It was then sold in September 2021 and it had a private plate put on it, the private plate was switched back in December 2021 and a new logbook issued with the original plate, presumably after the crash happened and the owner transferred the pate to their new car and/or retention. Registration Reg VN20NBY VN20 NBY VN 20 NBY Chassis number WP0ZZZ98ZLK284369 VIN WP0ZZZ98ZLK284369 Vehicle Indication Number WP0ZZZ98ZLK284369 Miami Blue GT4 crashed accident smashed unrecorded HPI clear HPI check Pictures for preservation of condition prior to repair: Warning! This car is currently back on the market again… https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202305227... Buyer beware. Removed from sale literally a couple of hours after I posted the warning last night. I'd wager the 'private seller' is on here...

julian987R said: came across this GT4 today. unsure if this is the exact intention of the thread, but here goes.... https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/44746492/clean-title-... Blimey, now we know why Tyrone upgraded to his 718 (not really)!

You're doing God's work here lads, hats off

GT4RS said: Which part of the A470? sorry i didn't see the reply. i cant remember exactly but it was almost 2 years ago. If i remember rightly there was a white pub opposite? i maybe wrong and on the way back i think it was under blue tarpaulin on the way back, but it was dark too . sorry not much help i know

kmpowell said: Removed from sale literally a couple of hours after I posted the warning last night. I'd wager the 'private seller' is on here... Just noticed this is back up for sale on AT

kmpowell said: Removed from sale literally a couple of hours after I posted the warning last night. I'd wager the 'private seller' is on here... Just noticed this is back up for sale on AT

Is it this one? https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306028...

Yep

OnionBhaji99 said: Is it this one? https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306028... Nice house.

Maybe the current seller may not know it was ever damaged if it wasn’t recorded? Did someone say it was sold by an OPC? If so the current owner may not be happy about that if they knew.

Was up for sale recently, owner in Esher.

VN20NBY?

CloudStuff said: VN20NBY? According to kmpowell's post on Page 1, yes the registration of the previously crashed GT4 which is back on the market of VN20NBY. Or more correctly VN20 NBY.

rawenghey said: You're doing God's work here lads, hats off Agreed. Google GT4 VN20 NBY and this is the first hit Google WP0ZZZ98ZLK284369 and this is the only hit. Just hope any potential buyer does the very basics of due diligence.

BAMoFo said: CloudStuff said: VN20NBY? According to kmpowell's post on Page 1, yes the registration of the previously crashed GT4 which is back on the market of VN20NBY. Or more correctly VN20 NBY. As yes, sorry. Thanks for correcting me - it's crucial to note that it could be argued that the plate of the moody GT4 which should be avoided at all costs is VN20NBY and / or VN20 NBY.

Re-listed again, this time with the number plate blacked-out in the pics, and a description which only tells part of the story. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307029...

Very good work Guys..........

Looks like VN20NBY was also picked up by a 'Dodgy Cars' Facebook group a couple of weeks ago. In the comments there are what seems to be pictures of the car in a Cardiff Alleyway... https://www.facebook.com/dodgycarsuk/posts/pfbid02...

kmpowell said: Re-listed again, this time with the number plate blacked-out in the pics, and a description which only tells part of the story. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307029... Interesting that they directly refer to porsche Cardiff. Porsche Cardiff don’t have their own body shop and I’m sure they wouldn’t want to be connected to a heavily crash damaged car. Clearly one to stay well away from.

Another red flag in the advert seems to be, owner refers to Porsche Cardiff supplying all genuine parts and carrying out a full check on the car after it was repaired, however, the Autotrader Private sale is being carried out from Esher................?????

Wonder why there is no reference to any Porsche warranty and service history. 'Most of the front end is plastic.'

So the comment earlier in the thread about a lack of insurance cover for this car being crashed on a track day is likely correct then….???? Someone took a hiding when this was damaged. Not sure I’d want to have spent 88k on a car that should clearly be on an insurance register if it had been covered. Good luck to the seller getting your money back.

Will not sell below £73,000 but asks for £74,800..............surely no point in asking £74,800 .

TTmonkey said: So the comment earlier in the thread about a lack of insurance cover for this car being crashed on a track day is likely correct then….???? Someone took a hiding when this was damaged. Not sure I’d want to have spent 88k on a car that should clearly be on an insurance register if it had been covered. Good luck to the seller getting your money back. This thread started with pics of the car at copart. I’d wager that insurance was involved at some point for it have been sold at a copart salvage auction. The only question is really why insurance didn’t repair it, maybe too damaged, maybe cheaper to write off. Track day cover and big off doesn’t of course mean the insurer has to repair, indeed if cheaper they can just pay out for it as salvage. There have been persistent rumours for a few years that one or more insurers who covered trackdays took a bath on GT4 payouts a few years ago. Hence combined Road+TD cover being harder to find. The smelly bit is that someone has repaired it by unknown means, possibly DIY and what kind of quality or not of work has been done to repair the car. All of course unrecorded.

tighnamara said: Will not sell below £73,000 but asks for £74,800..............surely no point in asking £74,800 . I spotted that pricing error. Be crazy to pay 73k for a heavily repaired gt4. Never understood why anyone would want a car like this unless it was for pennies. Makes no sense to me.

top detective work guys Would be interesitng if a potential new purchaser phonend Porsche Cardiff to see what they have on record!! Although it is being sold in Esher does not mean the car is in Esher, a few nice photos outside a nice big flash house what could possibly be wrong.... Does anybody believe the current owner has dumped £88k into this pile of s te? did anyone see what the final bid for the car was at Copart??

kmpowell said: You wait for a bus then two come along at once… RJ71 AYE RJ71AYE put up for sale at Redline… https://redlinespecialistcars.co.uk/car/porsche-71... Assuming they are aware of its history and still happy to market the car without mention of previous damage , or am i getting this wrong ?

Esquire said: kmpowell said: You wait for a bus then two come along at once… RJ71 AYE RJ71AYE put up for sale at Redline… https://redlinespecialistcars.co.uk/car/porsche-71... Assuming they are aware of its history and still happy to market the car without mention of previous damage , or am i getting this wrong ? I think it was the case that it was the press car and had had a front end respray which didn’t quite match the rest of the car (which still looks to be the case from the pics) as opposed to it having been in a crash or similar. Could be wrong though.

Redline88 said: I think it was the case that it was the press car and had had a front end respray which didn’t quite match the rest of the car (which still looks to be the case from the pics) as opposed to it having been in a crash or similar. Could be wrong though. Ahhh fair enough tks. TBF being a press car will mean it's likely collected a fair bit of road rash in its early years.

There is a chance that they don't know of the paint issue but if they do then thy should make that known in the advert.

KittyLitter said: There is a chance that they don't know of the paint issue but if they do then thy should make that known in the advert. Unusual colour for sure but IMO totally the wrong price compared to this- https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2020-porsche-7...

Esquire said: KittyLitter said: There is a chance that they don't know of the paint issue but if they do then thy should make that known in the advert. Unusual colour for sure but IMO totally the wrong price compared to this- https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2020-porsche-7... Apples and Pears. The Guards car was a trade sale on CC plus fees and from last January....the buyer got it at a very good price I reckon. Also the frozen berry is a clubsport with ceramics not steels and quite a bit newer even though the mileage is similar. Retail sale not trade. I prefer the Guards car by a country mile in fact it is almost identical to mine. The frozen berry apart from having a very hard life and many drivers has had lots of iffy paint a few examples non matching wings/doors and poor orange peel finish to the front end.

Guess with a PTS colour such as this, it's always hard to match when covering stone chips etc. Didn't realise the guards red was a trade sale so tks. Good point one spec of the other car . PCCB is what 6k from new ?

PRO5T said: kmpowell said: PRO5T said: Strange as I know Porsche South Lakes bought that from the previous owner. I'd guess that South Lakes probably didn't want to retail it themselves, due to its dubious condition, so instead likely put it straight out to Auction. Nothing dubious IMHO, I viewed the car numerous times over this summer and the paint match (although not perfect) wouldn't have bothered me. The previous owner was an ex-paint sprayer! The allow wheel refurb was worse than the front end. They (South Lakes) specifically bought it to retail. You would have happily paid nearly £80k for a car with paintwork so obviously mis matched?

freedman said: PRO5T said: kmpowell said: PRO5T said: Strange as I know Porsche South Lakes bought that from the previous owner. I'd guess that South Lakes probably didn't want to retail it themselves, due to its dubious condition, so instead likely put it straight out to Auction. Nothing dubious IMHO, I viewed the car numerous times over this summer and the paint match (although not perfect) wouldn't have bothered me. The previous owner was an ex-paint sprayer! The allow wheel refurb was worse than the front end. They (South Lakes) specifically bought it to retail. You would have happily paid nearly £80k for a car with paintwork so obviously mis matched? I doubt a lot of people would notice the paint miss match. It is there when pointed out but in a lot of lights it just isn't visible. My personal opinion? The car has a bit of a stigma in very small circles due to a z list YouTube trying trying to generate content from it. Would it bother me on the car? No, the car was entered in the Porsche South Lakes Concourse last summer (bearing in mind it was sold out of London not South Lakes) and won a prize. Would it bother me that there was a YouTube video saying how s t it was? Yes, more so, certainly more than the handful of videos/photos of it being test driven while it was a test car. The paint miss match could still be rectified by a good paint sprayer and it's a unicorn spec car. As I said however, the previous owner was a car painter and concourse detailer and he didn't bother which probably says a lot on how bad it really is.

I've read the PPN report on this car. You really need to stay away. I'll say no more.

It was priced well below similar cars for a reason when first retailed by the OPC. Clearly reflected its hard life as a Press car having had a multitude of drivers.

scrounger73 said: I've read the PPN report on this car. You really need to stay away. I'll say no more. But without divulging what’s in it and when it was done there’s no point in saying anything. For all we know, you could be a motivated buyer trying to attach stigma on a car that you want to buy on the cheap (and yes, that has been tried before on these pages). I’ve seen the car or numerous occasions and I’ve posted what I’ve posted-truthfully.

PRO5T said: scrounger73 said: I've read the PPN report on this car. You really need to stay away. I'll say no more. But without divulging what’s in it and when it was done there’s no point in saying anything. For all we know, you could be a motivated buyer trying to attach stigma on a car that you want to buy on the cheap (and yes, that has been tried before on these pages). I’ve seen the car or numerous occasions and I’ve posted what I’ve posted-truthfully. If Scrounger (with his all seeing eye) says stay away that's good enough for me and sound advice.

PRO5T said: But without divulging what’s in it and when it was done there’s no point in saying anything. For all we know, you could be a motivated buyer trying to attach stigma on a car that you want to buy on the cheap (and yes, that has been tried before on these pages). I’ve seen the car or numerous occasions and I’ve posted what I’ve posted-truthfully. Be assured I have no interest in this car. I'm quite happy with my GTS 4.0

scrounger73 said: Be assured I have no interest in this car. I'm quite happy with my GTS 4.0 TBH with the right spec i'm beginning to think the gts 4.0 might be a better proposition for most. Some of the test cars have been spec'd with buckets although i doubt many will order them as the GTS seats are still brilliant and will still do the job on track days. Yes, rose jointed suspension etc is nice to have but for most doing the occasional track days i doubt they'd really know the difference

scrounger73 said: Be assured I have no interest in this car. I'm quite happy with my GTS 4.0 So still not willing to put in writing why everyone should avoid a car I’ve seen and sat in and didn’t think was bad? If you don’t wish to post on a forum, I’m pretty sure my profile accepts emails.

PRO5T said: scrounger73 said: Be assured I have no interest in this car. I'm quite happy with my GTS 4.0 So still not willing to put in writing why everyone should avoid a car I’ve seen and sat in and didn’t think was bad? If you don’t wish to post on a forum, I’m pretty sure my profile accepts emails. Are you actually interested in buying it?

Armitage.Shanks said: PRO5T said: scrounger73 said: Be assured I have no interest in this car. I'm quite happy with my GTS 4.0 So still not willing to put in writing why everyone should avoid a car I’ve seen and sat in and didn’t think was bad? If you don’t wish to post on a forum, I’m pretty sure my profile accepts emails. Are you actually interested in buying it? I actually almost did in 2023 when it first came to market.

PRO5T said: So still not willing to put in writing why everyone should avoid a car I’ve seen and sat in and didn’t think was bad? If you don’t wish to post on a forum, I’m pretty sure my profile accepts emails. If you still know the VIN ping me a pm and I'll have a look and send it to you.

scrounger73 said: I've read the PPN report on this car. You really need to stay away. I'll say no more. What is a PPN report please ?

ChrisW. said: What is a PPN report please ? Porsche Partner Network.

Thanks !

Gt4RS Cat U - so could end up hazy on its history - if repaired and back on the market one day. https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/41720455/clean-title-...

Jones the cat said: Gt4RS Cat U - so could end up hazy on its history - if repaired and back on the market one day. https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/41720455/clean-title-... That looks like it could be quite a strightforward fix.

Armitage.Shanks said: That looks like it could be quite a strightforward fix. Agreed, although the dashboard's instruction that it's just needs refilling with coolant seems optimistic.

Armitage.Shanks said: That looks like it could be quite a strightforward fix. Iick of paint, easy

https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/79789764/clean-title-...

Jones the cat said: https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/79789764/clean-title-... Looks to me to be an honest advert no?

How can a car with so little apparent damage be a cat S write-off ? Of course it should be repairable or Porsche are damned ... but a write-off ?

ChrisW. said: How can a car with so little apparent damage be a cat S write-off ? Of course it should be repairable or Porsche are damned ... but a write-off ? Quite often it can be as little as no space at a Porsche approved body shop on a jig (if needed) for a while or some parts on back order. Then, if the insurance company have to supply a similar car for the duration to the customer at a loss (which gets VERY expensive!) they simply cut their losses and pay out, send the car to auction and recoup what they can. I know someone involved in what was then the most expensive insurance hire in the UK where the insurance company disputed the claim and the claimant went legal. All the while he was kept in the equivalent of a 911 Turbo for over a year I think, at a cost of multiple hundreds of pounds per day for just that car hire.

I can see that could make sense but ... I wonder what it sold for ... I last saw it at a little over £50k ??

I stopped bidding at £60k, I didn't miss it by much

Would have been a steal to get that - as a track tool I remember seeing that car when it was new at a few places - one of the 1st ones delivered.

TDT said: Would have been a steal to get that - as a track tool I remember seeing that car when it was new at a few places - one of the 1st ones delivered. Hmmm, I was in two minds especially as it was quite low but as always with these things if you're not really inspecting it properly you've got to keep a lot in reserve. Two internal airbags gone off, the boot wasn't closing so the rear panel was needing pulled out, bumper, crash bar, mountings, exhaust centre section and one tailpipe at least, diffuser right section, light...not sure what went on with the side damage? I budgeted £15k of work and parts but would have hoped for less, but you just can't tell if there's something underneath to ruin your day.

Yep definitely always a risk. The tolerances are so small on the chassis once it goes on the rig. 2mm out from the datum on the jig and you then just need a new chassis if repairing to Porsche standards.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202509066... Fixed and up for sale

PRO5T said: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202509066... Fixed and up for sale

Jones the cat said: PRO5T said: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202509066... Fixed and up for sale Weissach tips presumably too expensive to bother with!

Number plate for any checks : RA22 WWF https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/127339758762?_skw=Porsc...

VN20 NBY up for sale again. No mention of previous damge in description

Kernow76 said: VN20 NBY up for sale again. No mention of previous damge in description Will this not be registered as damaged ?

Esquire said: Kernow76 said: VN20 NBY up for sale again. No mention of previous damge in description Will this not be registered as damaged ? I don't believe it is recorded anywhere? I dodged a bullet on this as it is my perfect spec (been looking at one similar in silver) and this is cheaper with a quarter the miles of the silver car (which is scruffy). It's near 200 miles from me and just before I made a call I thought, hang on this rings a bell. It's thanks to this thread I'll pass. It does however seem cheap for the mileage/spec compared to similar suggesting somethiong is amiss. I wonder if a question to the dealer will reveal the history?

Judging by the history of the video, this looks fairly recent… https://www.instagram.com/reel/DT9pWz2DLs1/?igsh=c...

That looked a bit sudden, unlucky driver!

PRO5T said: Quite often it can be as little as no space at a Porsche approved body shop on a jig (if needed) for a while or some parts on back order. Then, if the insurance company have to supply a similar car for the duration to the customer at a loss (which gets VERY expensive!) they simply cut their losses and pay out, send the car to auction and recoup what they can. I know someone involved in what was then the most expensive insurance hire in the UK where the insurance company disputed the claim and the claimant went legal. All the while he was kept in the equivalent of a 911 Turbo for over a year I think, at a cost of multiple hundreds of pounds per day for just that car hire. Did that involve two Turbos by chance?

kmpowell said: Judging by the history of the video, this looks fairly recent https://www.instagram.com/reel/DT9pWz2DLs1/?igsh=c... Cup2's and too much right foot on a wet road ?? All credit to the car for holding the full weight on the roof through a roll situation ...

Blimey, the rebound spring that that silver birch tree gives is incredible. Hope all involved were unhurt.

ChrisW. said: Cup2's and too much right foot on a wet road ?? All credit to the car for holding the full weight on the roof through a roll situation ... Looks very like the wrong tyres on a wet road. Cups are pretty much lethal in the wet.

TrevorHill said: ChrisW. said: Cup2's and too much right foot on a wet road ?? All credit to the car for holding the full weight on the roof through a roll situation ... Looks very like the wrong tyres on a wet road. Cups are pretty much lethal in the wet. Nonsense, I run Cup2s on my daily driven GT4 come rain or shine. Driver error is the issue here

TrevorHill said: ChrisW. said: Cup2's and too much right foot on a wet road ?? All credit to the car for holding the full weight on the roof through a roll situation ... Looks very like the wrong tyres on a wet road. Cups are pretty much lethal in the wet. What a load of rubbish! If you drive to the conditions they are perfectly usable in the wet.

R500K said: Nonsense, I run Cup2s on my daily driven GT4 come rain or shine. Driver error is the issue here Agreed. Ran mine on Cup 2s in the UK as a daily for 2.5yrs. Only left it at home once, when it started to snow heavily on my way to work.

neilf said: R500K said: Nonsense, I run Cup2s on my daily driven GT4 come rain or shine. Driver error is the issue here Agreed. Ran mine on Cup 2s in the UK as a daily for 2.5yrs. Only left it at home once, when it started to snow heavily on my way to work. I have done the same ... but sometimes trouble comes to you. I am guessing that this accident would have been far less likely with different tyres. You are of course free to disagree and I hope you stay lucky. Of course, it is extremely unlikely that you will have a bump in a car that isn't being driven, but ? Edited by ChrisW. on Sunday 15th February 13:57

neilf said: R500K said: Nonsense, I run Cup2s on my daily driven GT4 come rain or shine. Driver error is the issue here Agreed. Ran mine on Cup 2s in the UK as a daily for 2.5yrs. Only left it at home once, when it started to snow heavily on my way to work. Snow you say? Pah Cup2’s shrug off snow it’s almost a winter tyre to me