981 PDK is toast, any suggestions ? - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Last year I swapped my manual 987S Boxster for a 981 PDK for a combination of reasons - I had a degenerating spinal condition making driving the manual S tricky and my wife didn't like driving it either as she's an auto convert. 6 months in and the PDK is toast. Its a 2012 car with only 50k on it. Nothing will select and having had it HIAB'd to my usual indie they've just confirmed its an internal gearbox problem and replacement the only option. They have talked to Porsche technical to come to that conclusion, they suspect something has given way internally. Given I paid £21k for it its now effectively an economic write off. The limited warranty I got with the car from a different indie is expired and only covered the first £2k anyway. I know these sodding things are sealed and very little in the way of repair can be done, even now, 15 years after they were introduced. Given its a full engine out job with £4k+VAT labour my indie doesn't think taking a chance on a box out of a write-off would make sense. Unlike a Hartech engine rebuild I'm not elevating the value of the car by getting it back to where it was. Given my spinal condition (ironically now operated on) has meant me already raiding the pension to fund day to day costs, £18k is a lot of money to find & replace. Not sure what it would be worth as a part-out ? Any other bright ideas ? TIA

I'd have a google for PDK repairs.... there are alternative options to replacement - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... old thread about PDK repairs

Do Sports and classic in Cheshire do anything with pdk boxes??

I'm no porsche expert but theres no way it would be worth 18k breaking it. Equally its not worth zero as it stands, i'm sure someone would pay reasonable money for it and then repair it pretty cheaply making it a very reasonable motor. I'd be finding a PDK expert and getting the box sorted then sell it on rather than breaking it or selling it spares or repair.

Obtain the codes and dedicate a significant amount of time to researching, particularly on the US forums. Don't give up until several people, either in person, over the phone or on the forums, have told you to give up on it. Or give up on it and put it on eBay, with full disclosure and hope for the best.

BGB in the US has started doing pdk refurbs. The most common fault is an internal sensor related t gear change and position that they now replace. Maybe worth asking them?

There will doubtless be a UK based specialist who can crack the case and fix whatever is wrong here. You need to investigate that. Don’t sell the car for pennies. Someone else will simply do what I’ve just suggested or seek to replace with a PDK from a similar written off car. Investigating the cost of buying a pdk and paying a specialist to fit remains another viable option. I have one final left field suggestion. Contact the production company that makes Wheeler Dealers. See if you can have a conversation with a producer about getting ‘them’ to fix the car with you subsequently buying in back. A pdk fix might make for content for them. Worth some emails. All is far from lost. Hopefully, As you are retired, you have some time to advance this. I hope you can find a way around it to a happy ending.

I’ve this post before so why not give them a call if you’re within striking distance of Warrington.

maz8062 said: Obtain the codes and dedicate a significant amount of time to researching, particularly on the US forums. Don't give up until several people, either in person, over the phone or on the forums, have told you to give up on it. Or give up on it and put it on eBay, with full disclosure and hope for the best. I did do some research when it first gave up last week. There are a limited number of people having a go at them and there is an extensive Rennlist post about people having a go. Their work is largely around solenoids and sensors which in theory you can get Chinese copies of but that sounds a bit risky even if feasible. My Indie suspect something mechanical has gone but I don't know whether that's them guessing. The odd thing is my wife came home from work in it on Tuesday with no issues and then Wednesday morning when she went to go, it wouldn't select any forward or reverse and was spewing error messages on the dash. I was hoping it was something electronic & external to the gearbox but the diagnostics suggested not. I will get the diagnostics reports and speak to a couple of companies up north that claim to be able to do some limited fixes. Unfortunately I'm not retired but I was raiding the pension being over 55 and not having much income for a while with my spine (I'm effectively self employted through my own companies). Edited by Speed 3 on Monday 23 June 19:07

Grantstown said: I ve this post before so why not give them a call if you re within striking distance of Warrington. Great advice

Although it is a bit of a long shot, if the failure is within six months of the purchases, consumer law presumes that the fault existed at the time of the sale (irrespective of what specific warranty came with the vehicle), and therefore the company who sold it may be liable. Might be worth investigating?

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Revolution Porsche claim to have experience addressing a number of common PDK faults. Not used them, but worth a call. https://revolution-porsche.co.uk/services/porsche-...

ConnectionError said: Yes these guys are excellent

Austrin (as I recommended to ATM on here) or Mike at Sports and Classic. If they can't help (and they'll be up front about whether it's fixable or not once they've diagnosed the issue) buy a used unit and fit it. The 'boxes themselves aren't rocket science, it's the getting parts for them that's difficult.

Unless I’m wrong the PDK comes out without engine removal, it certainly does on the 718, which obviously saves a LOT of labour.

Just read an extensive article in Rennlist about PDK repairs. It would seem most issues are to do with the hydraulic valves which makes sense since you cannot access any gear, if it had been the gearbox itself ( gears ) it would have presented another way. It would seem that these valve actuators are accessible with gearbox installed but whether that applies with a 981 I can’t say. Moreover it appears that it is a specific part of the valve that fails which can be obtained for buttons relatively speaking. I’m sure there are those out there who know this and have repaired scrapped boxes. I know it’s easy to catastrophise such things but I would do some digging and I’m sure you’ll find a solution. The fact your wife wasn’t able to access any gear after it was fine suggests nothing terminal.

So spoke to a couple of specialists up north today who have had good success remedying these fault codes. They're both pretty confident its a position sensor given my description of the incident and the fault codes which my indie has given me. One of them claims to have remedied 50 units successfully, the other much less than that (but similar success rate). One gets the sensors from South Africa, the other Australia. Cost is more with the experienced guys but they give a 12 month warranty on the work too. If anyone on here has any direct experience with the guys in West Yorkshire or the ones in Warrington, please DM me. Including transferring the car I'm looking at £4-5k, worth a gamble on a 95% success confidence ?

Speed 3 said: So spoke to a couple of specialists up north today who have had good success remedying these fault codes. They're both pretty confident its a position sensor given my description of the incident and the fault codes which my indie has given me. One of them claims to have remedied 50 units successfully, the other much less than that (but similar success rate). One gets the sensors from South Africa, the other Australia. Cost is more with the experienced guys but they give a 12 month warranty on the work too. If anyone on here has any direct experience with the guys in West Yorkshire or the ones in Warrington, please DM me. Including transferring the car I'm looking at £4-5k, worth a gamble on a 95% success confidence ? If they will warranty the repair then that'd be your best approach - whats the estimated cost of the repair roughly?

£4k inc VAT

I see you are in Surrey - have you tried GT One or 9 Excellence?

Speed 3 said: So spoke to a couple of specialists up north today who have had good success remedying these fault codes. They're both pretty confident its a position sensor given my description of the incident and the fault codes which my indie has given me. One of them claims to have remedied 50 units successfully, the other much less than that (but similar success rate). One gets the sensors from South Africa, the other Australia. Cost is more with the experienced guys but they give a 12 month warranty on the work too. If anyone on here has any direct experience with the guys in West Yorkshire or the ones in Warrington, please DM me. Including transferring the car I'm looking at £4-5k, worth a gamble on a 95% success confidence ? If I were you, I'd give that a go.

Did you try Mike at Sports and Classic in Cheshire? He is a Porsche gearbox specialist. A lot of people on here use him for a wide range of work, but his real speciality is gearboxes. Can highly recommend. He’s been working on my cars for over 10 years.

RB_987s said: I see you are in Surrey - have you tried GT One or 9 Excellence? GT One are looking at developing repairs but haven't done any yet. Interestingly part of their business case is that there's no-one in the south doing it. 9E only do manuals and tiptronics.

jackwood said: Did you try Mike at Sports and Classic in Cheshire? He is a Porsche gearbox specialist. A lot of people on here use him for a wide range of work, but his real speciality is gearboxes. Can highly recommend. He s been working on my cars for over 10 years. Bad echo in here ... Slippydiff said: Austrin (as I recommended to ATM on here) or Mike at Sports and Classic. If they can't help (and they'll be up front about whether it's fixable or not once they've diagnosed the issue) buy a used unit and fit it. The 'boxes themselves aren't rocket science, it's the getting parts for them that's difficult.

Slippydiff said: jackwood said: Did you try Mike at Sports and Classic in Cheshire? He is a Porsche gearbox specialist. A lot of people on here use him for a wide range of work, but his real speciality is gearboxes. Can highly recommend. He s been working on my cars for over 10 years. Bad echo in here ... Slippydiff said: Austrin (as I recommended to ATM on here) or Mike at Sports and Classic. If they can't help (and they'll be up front about whether it's fixable or not once they've diagnosed the issue) buy a used unit and fit it. The 'boxes themselves aren't rocket science, it's the getting parts for them that's difficult. Had a long conversation with Mike and his quote is massively more expensive than the other two which given the car is due it's 12-year service too makes the whole cost uneconomic going that way. Cost is being driven by the sensor cost which is 3x what everyone else is quoting from US or Australia supply. Austrin were keen too and are confident having had recent success on a similar code on a Panamera. Their verbal guide prices are more in line with the others than Mike. Given I need the 12-year service done if the gearbox can be fixed I'd rather have the whole lot done in one place but Austrin do have a good relationship with D&G. A quandry.....

Speed3 - Firstly commiserations-all of us PDK owners empathise with you and fear the same happening to us. Please could you tell us the names of the 2 garages you are talking to up north - this would be helpful information for all of us going forwards

I have spoken in total to these who say they can: Ninemeister Revolution Austrin Sports & Classic plus GT One down here who can't yet. Also now in dialogue with the car supplying indie in Surrey who, whilst they've never done this job, believe they can. Won't name them as its not a purchase dispute which could be incorrectly construed as name & shame.

Speed 3 said: I have spoken in total to these who say they can: Ninemeister Revolution Austrin Sports & Classic plus GT One down here who can't yet. Also now in dialogue with the car supplying indie in Surrey who, whilst they've never done this job, believe they can. Won't name them as its not a purchase dispute which could be incorrectly construed as name & shame. Unless the indy is offering to support the repair financially in view of the short time since you brought from them then I'd go to somebody who has demonstrably done a similar repair before. It's probably a few hundred to get it transported to one - id be asking for timeline as well as price, however.

Thank you Speed3. Please keep us informed as it is the luck of the draw as to which of us will be similarly struck down

bennno said: Unless the indy is offering to support the repair financially in view of the short time since you brought from them then I'd go to somebody who has demonstrably done a similar repair before. It's probably a few hundred to get it transported to one - id be asking for timeline as well as price, however. Their quote just came in and it's at the upper end of the scale compared to the others, lacking support let's suggest..... Like you say, better to go for experience.

Who is offering the 12 month warranty on the repair?

Ninemeister used to give me some help with my 718 race car, including fitting a diff and some gearbox maintenance. Good guys with a lot of cars going through their workshop so I think they have the required experience for the job.

churchie2856 said: Who is offering the 12 month warranty on the repair? Revolution

The big debating point seems to be the manufacturer of the position sensor. There are some claims that the ZF OEM ones can be sourced in limited numbers from non-EU countries, others claim that just isn't possible. The options range from "remanufactured" ones from China (which would suggest they started life as OEM ones) to various "improved" designs by others. No-one seems to be categoric about who is currently making them for ZF. The aftermarket ones include T-Design, MLR, Berlinetta and LN Engineering although some of those may be the same. Most seem to be covered by some kind of export control if coming out of North America. Australia & South Africa seem to be stockists or sources of any or all of the above brands. Revolution are adamant they have done more than 25 in the past year and over 50 in total which is why they're happy to go fixed price and warrant. They will only use LN sensors in support of that policy, won't use the others and are very sceptical about anyone claiming to supply ZF ones. That seems to be favourite for me at the moment, the MD rang me personally to discuss and was very open about their offer. They're also very busy which is a good sign so can't do anything for a couple of weeks although they do tend to keep at least one sensor in stock so should go straight into work when they're ready. Reviews seem decent on their work in general. Total cost for the repair, PDK full service & 12 year engine service expected to be a bit over £5k so with the recovery truck I'm looking at £6k (although was in for the due service items in any case). I'll keep y'all posted.

maz8062 said: Obtain the codes and dedicate a significant amount of time to researching, particularly on the US forums. Don't give up until several people, either in person, over the phone or on the forums, have told you to give up on it. Or give up on it and put it on eBay, with full disclosure and hope for the best. That's been my day

I’d go with Revolution as based on your feedback they have the expertise and experience; 12 month warranty and are using LN parts (who if I’m right have a good reputation for aftermarket solutions to Porsche problems). Must be worth a punt. Personally I’d been wary of PDK cars once out of Porsche warranty, but knowing that some known specialists now have expertise is reassuring.

Happy to offer 5k to take it off your hands?

bennno said: Count897 said: Happy to offer 5k to take it off your hands? Of already offered him that many posts back Cheeky offers? Seems low to me.

Assume you've watched this video...seems relevant https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&a...

soad said: bennno said: Count897 said: Happy to offer 5k to take it off your hands? Of already offered him that many posts back Cheeky offers? Seems low to me. Low if its possible to get the gearbox successfully fixed for £4k, perhaps high if a new gearbox is ultimately required - who knows at this point....

The vultures are circling

soad said: bennno said: Count897 said: Happy to offer 5k to take it off your hands? Of already offered him that many posts back Cheeky offers? Seems low to me. Joke price, engine would probably be worth 4-5k depending on history then you have the rest of the car and parts to sell off, pdk boxes seem available second hand 3-6k, slip one of those in, thats what I d be doing. You d have to be a right mug to accept 5k and someone do as I suggest and have a dirt cheap car. The cheapest pdk 981 boxster with 49k miles is 24k ffs! Edited by Youforreal. on Wednesday 25th June 09:51

As you say, cheapest is £24k, whilst a new gearbox from Porsche is £20k. The solution is a scrap box from a crashed one, or finding a specialist able to repair it.

A bit late to the party maybe but what about Litchfield ? They are wizards with the R35 GTR box internals when no one would go near them and they also do Porsche stuff now. Worth a call ?

soad said: bennno said: Count897 said: Happy to offer 5k to take it off your hands? Of already offered him that many posts back Cheeky offers? Seems low to me. PH community will always attract speculators as well as the well intentioned & informed.

Speed 3 said: PH community will always attract speculators as well as the well intentioned & informed. If you walk about in some parts of London at night you get quite a few speculators there too

Speed 3 said: The big debating point seems to be the manufacturer of the position sensor. There are some claims that the ZF OEM ones can be sourced in limited numbers from non-EU countries, others claim that just isn't possible. The options range from "remanufactured" ones from China (which would suggest they started life as OEM ones) to various "improved" designs by others. No-one seems to be categoric about who is currently making them for ZF. The aftermarket ones include T-Design, MLR, Berlinetta and LN Engineering although some of those may be the same. Most seem to be covered by some kind of export control if coming out of North America. Australia & South Africa seem to be stockists or sources of any or all of the above brands. Revolution are adamant they have done more than 25 in the past year and over 50 in total which is why they're happy to go fixed price and warrant. They will only use LN sensors in support of that policy, won't use the others and are very sceptical about anyone claiming to supply ZF ones. That seems to be favourite for me at the moment, the MD rang me personally to discuss and was very open about their offer. They're also very busy which is a good sign so can't do anything for a couple of weeks although they do tend to keep at least one sensor in stock so should go straight into work when they're ready. Reviews seem decent on their work in general. Total cost for the repair, PDK full service & 12 year engine service expected to be a bit over £5k so with the recovery truck I'm looking at £6k (although was in for the due service items in any case). I'll keep y'all posted. Just get it repaired 5k with 12 year service warranty etc that's not as horrific as made out to be honest. 1k to recover your car seems excessive. Then the car will be Spot on again.

That's what I'm doing. The transfer is about £650, the Revolution estimate is just over £5k as I said.

Speed 3 said: That's what I'm doing. The transfer is about £650, the Revolution estimate is just over £5k as I said. Best option and a brilliant car and I guess your unlucky with the failure. Has the pdk been serviced in it's lifetime ?

Speed 3 said: That's what I'm doing. The transfer is about £650, the Revolution estimate is just over £5k as I said. Good on yer - it’s still whole chunk of change, but as you can see, folk are offering you £5k for a car that’s worth at least £24k. It’s worth going the whole nine yards to get it fixed and then get shot of it.

maz8062 said: Good on yer - it s still whole chunk of change, but as you can see, folk are offering you £5k for a car that s worth at least £24k. It s worth going the whole nine yards to get it fixed and then get shot of it. Why get shot of it after spending money getting problems fixed ? Could end up with more probelms buying something else

maz8062 said: Good on yer - it s still whole chunk of change, but as you can see, folk are offering you £5k for a car that s worth at least £24k. It s worth going the whole nine yards to get it fixed and then get shot of it. To be fair his initial diagnosis was it was uneconomic to repair as it needed a 20k gearbox. if its fixable then its clearly worth a lot more fixed.

james28 said: maz8062 said: Good on yer - it s still whole chunk of change, but as you can see, folk are offering you £5k for a car that s worth at least £24k. It s worth going the whole nine yards to get it fixed and then get shot of it. Why get shot of it after spending money getting problems fixed ? Could end up with more probelms buying something else I have a view that when a car costs you that much money for an innocuous repair, it can do it again, and it might cost you a lot more next time around. Plus, you won't be able to trust it, so best to wipe the slate clean and try your luck elsewhere.

Assuming it’s all fixed I’ll run it for a while & see how I feel about it. This slug of total work should enhance rather than impair its value although not to the tune of £6k. Ironically I regularly said it seemed better built it felt than my prior 987S. I had a TVR Tuscan for 7 years that I fell out of love with when it finally started hitting my wallet too regularly. Not sure if the PDK has been serviced on time previously and one of the specialists said Porsche don’t actually specify an interval but I don’t have the books at home to validate that, would be surprised.

Speed 3 said: Assuming it s all fixed I ll run it for a while & see how I feel about it. This slug of total work should enhance rather than impair its value although not to the tune of £6k. Assuming they know what is wrong with it and they 100% fix it for that then you are back to having bought the same car, but for £27k, which isn't that bad depending on condition/spec/history, you haven't really added any value to it. Selling it not long after and mentioning any repair is more likely to work against you than for you.

Was just watching the weekly upload from Porschemode in Bristol, who also offer PDK repair. See about 11 minutes in https://youtu.be/_pmR5VQ-k_I And it’s a great channel for Porsche fans

Regal auto sport in southampton keep posting on instagram that they repair PDK boxes Never used them but website says estd 1988, so must be worth a call

bennno said: soad said: bennno said: Count897 said: Happy to offer 5k to take it off your hands? Of already offered him that many posts back Cheeky offers? Seems low to me. Low if its possible to get the gearbox successfully fixed for £4k, perhaps high if a new gearbox is ultimately required - who knows at this point.... Sell it to Mike Brewer; he bought a Boxster (?) with a knackered Tiptronic gearbox and Ed (Elvis??) fixed it with an oilchange for £2.50 [Well something along those lines - we all know it's not all 100% true]

It's a Porsche. Who sees more PDK transmissions than anybody else - the Porsche dealerships. I'd put it into an official dealership for diagnosis before starting to throw big money around.

Fiammetta said: Fiammetta said: Not sure who makes the boxes , but Ferrari DTC s from circa 2009 which first saw light in the California I understand are made by Getrag. These have a lot of solenoids and sensors inside soaked in the oil . Eventually the rubber gaskets on theses electrical components fail . As the oil ages it becomes more acidic and eats it way in . The OEM Ferrari Shell g box spec is particularly prone to eating into components. Hence the failures reported by Cali and Porto + other DTC Ferrari boxes . Good Indy s can open them up find the faulty part and replace but crucially refill with a different brand oil . Or when one arrives from the franchised network offer an immediate gearbox fluid change to rid the acidic oil . So with Porsche PDK they recommend a 10 yr or iirc 80 K mile fluid change . Our Macan had this ..so maybe depending on the number of electronic components Porsches PDK oil change is time critical in terms of damaging low PH ? If the oil does indeed eventually attack the Electrotwackery seals inside ,then you can see from a maintenance pov they don t repair the faulty bit just junk the whole lot and replace it . I don t think it s an inventory or training thing it s trying to hold up the integrity of the marque with ( as they age ) a pseudo chocolate tea pot gear box . Clever really . A PDK in a Cayman, Boxster, or 911 is a different beast to one in a Macan. The Macan has a rebranded DSG box. Service in the sports car PDK is 12 years

Speed 3 said: heebeegeetee said: I am a bit sceptical about the cost of the sensor that was replaced in the OP's box though. Just curious, you think it s too high or too low ? Too high. Maybe there's something I'm unaware of, but to best of my knowledge these sensors are fairly commonplace and generic. On the positive side this thread goes someway to showing that the pdk box must be reliable, because otherwise there'd be a supply of used gearboxes and there'd be many specialists fixing and rebuilding them, plus those sensors would be sensible money. As it is I'm guessing no-one outside the trade knows how much those sensors really cost.

heebeegeetee said: Too high. Maybe there's something I'm unaware of, but to best of my knowledge these sensors are fairly commonplace and generic. On the positive side this thread goes someway to showing that the pdk box must be reliable, because otherwise there'd be a supply of used gearboxes and there'd be many specialists fixing and rebuilding them, plus those sensors would be sensible money. As it is I'm guessing no-one outside the trade knows how much those sensors really cost. On the other hand, the OP is happy at being charged less than 25% of the quote from an OPC.

CanAm said: On the other hand, the OP is happy at being charged less than 25% of the quote from an OPC. For a small sensor in a gearbox vs a full new unit….

It does make you wonder what the actual cost price of the sensor was. If 58p then perhaps a sizable mark up? Edited by Count897 on Saturday 19th July 17:19

bennno said: CanAm said: On the other hand, the OP is happy at being charged less than 25% of the quote from an OPC. For a small sensor in a gearbox vs a full new unit . I didn't say it was a bargain for what it was, I said the OP was happy with the outcome. But I agree, the price of the sensor is way out of proportion compared with a brand new, very complicated piece of machinery. You're paying for the knowledge. Edited by CanAm on Saturday 19th July 18:00

bennno said: CanAm said: On the other hand, the OP is happy at being charged less than 25% of the quote from an OPC. For a small sensor in a gearbox vs a full new unit . Let's not forget A few years ago I'm sure I read somewhere the cost to Porsche to produce a brand new 911 turbo was not really much more than that to produce a brand new - insert other model name. But they can charge a lot more because turbo. Fast forward to now the cost from Porsche for a new gearbox is not cheap. But we all know the cost to produce is much less. So they create a cottage industry of repairers by charging exorbitant prices for wholesale gearbox replacements which are not really necessary.

The cost of the sensor charged to me was £2,220 + VAT so I'm assuming the manufacturer is selling to trade for something in the region of £1,800 to £2,000. Given they've had to reverse engineer the design given the lack of data from ZF and the fact the volume will never be huge (probably <3% of the volume the OEM makes for production, that doesn't seem completely unreasonable to me. Other offers were up to £3,500 for different non-OEM makes. For those that haven't seen one, this is what it looks like: https://lnengineering.com/new-replacement-distance... It should also be realised that they've looked at the tech Porsche/ZF originally used and updated it to modern standards of electrowackery as well as investigating and remedying the failure mode(s) of the ZF component. LNE are one of those companies like Hartech, addressing weak Porsche design points. Their whole market exists because the OEM hasn't got it as right as it should have been in the first place. Edited by Speed 3 on Saturday 19th July 19:12

fozzymandeus said: Fiammetta said: Fiammetta said: Not sure who makes the boxes , but Ferrari DTC s from circa 2009 which first saw light in the California I understand are made by Getrag. These have a lot of solenoids and sensors inside soaked in the oil . Eventually the rubber gaskets on theses electrical components fail . As the oil ages it becomes more acidic and eats it way in . The OEM Ferrari Shell g box spec is particularly prone to eating into components. Hence the failures reported by Cali and Porto + other DTC Ferrari boxes . Good Indy s can open them up find the faulty part and replace but crucially refill with a different brand oil . Or when one arrives from the franchised network offer an immediate gearbox fluid change to rid the acidic oil . So with Porsche PDK they recommend a 10 yr or iirc 80 K mile fluid change . Our Macan had this ..so maybe depending on the number of electronic components Porsches PDK oil change is time critical in terms of damaging low PH ? If the oil does indeed eventually attack the Electrotwackery seals inside ,then you can see from a maintenance pov they don t repair the faulty bit just junk the whole lot and replace it . I don t think it s an inventory or training thing it s trying to hold up the integrity of the marque with ( as they age ) a pseudo chocolate tea pot gear box . Clever really . A PDK in a Cayman, Boxster, or 911 is a different beast to one in a Macan. The Macan has a rebranded DSG box. Service in the sports car PDK is 12 years I have a DSG Audi Q5 - or a Macan without the posh frock. Audi’s service interval is 4 years / 40k miles. A bit worrying that Porsche think 10 years is OK. A bit like BMW deciding that the ZF8 never needs a fluid & filter change - which is not what ZF say about their own product.

ATM said: Fiammetta said: 4- There s an inevitability as the yrs go by ( what you are starting seeing now ) that immersing electrotwackery in oil = the oils gonna find it s way in and destroy . I disagree with this Lots of gearboxes like zf6 in my 2005 BMW have 'electrotwackery' inside I saw a picture somewhere of a zf6 I think, I might try a search... Of course the zf6 is probably simpler than a PDK. But the newer zf8 is probably almost as complicated and that's used in lots of cars too. Some of the earlier threads I read about the PDK - by people who had opened one up just to poke around inside - mentioned 'electrotwackery' type components inside with zf part numbers. One even suggested it might be manufactured or supplied by zf. We all know Porsche are just buying these in from somewhere or some gearbox manufacturer. So I guess my point is these zf auto boxes have been around for a while and seem quite robust. Also the DSG has been around for donkeys in VAG cars. I've not heard any horror stories about those. Finally I think it's a bit short sighted or narrow minded to assume that these gearbox manufacturers haven't got the brains to figure out their 'electrotwackery' components need to be able to survive inside a gearbox immersed in whatever fluid is recommended and continue working. When my PDK started to play up I did assume it was game over for the box and therefore the car too. But even my ham fisted efforts of basically just putting fluid in it fixed it just fine - sorry it didn't fix the leak but the box worked fine again once adequate fluid levels were restored. I didn't even follow any recommended procedure about getting the Box to shift through all gears to ensure fluid was in and around all parts of the Box. Therefore the errors and warnings and 'protection' modes seemed annoying and scary but they worked. The box protected itself from the stupid owner trying to drive it low on fluid. I didn't exactly treat mine sympathetically once it started playing up. So based on my experience I think they're pretty robust. And one last point about PDK I believe PDK cars make a better bet as a 2nd hand car purchase because if you buy an older manual 9x6 or 9x7 you can spend a couple of thousand renewing clutch, flywheel, gear shift cables and even tweaking the gear lever pivots - like I've done. All of this maintenance is obviously unnecessary on a PDK. They just need some fluid changes. Sounds much simpler and cheaper to Me in terms of maintenance. The extended warranties i believe are in effect 3rd party insurance based product . Shielding the manufacturer from the cost liabilities going Fwds after 2 yrs when there own expires . Actuarial supported of course. Simply put the costs are spread by the punters in the premiums. So ZF or who ever have washed there hands of aftercare after the initial manufacture warranty . Passed the liability on . Yes your potential accumulated manual box running costs over a long period does add up . That’s not news , this isn’t a comparison between X and Y and doesn’t suddenly make the oil seals of the immersed electrotwackery bomb proof , get rid of the problem . Which makes it from a manufacturer pov more ok for punters with PDK to deal with the financial consequences of a inevitable failure …..oil ingress into the electrotwackery. As said it’s a bit silly Porsche techs just swapping out the single affected component. That’s why they play a high line ( for reputational reasons ) of calling for a complete unit change . Plenty of failures of double clutch type from all the main users . Pop into any franchised , or Indy Ferrari , Porsche , Lambo, Mc Claren et al workshop . As time passes the rate will increase - oil will find its way in to zap stuff . Remember if the OPs car was still under the Porsche extended warranty this post wouldn’t exist . The dealer would have taken care of it and replaced the box . You ( gen public) hardly get to hear what’s getting replaced under warranty at the franchised dealers .

Speed 3 said: The cost of the sensor charged to me was £2,220 + VAT so I'm assuming the manufacturer is selling to trade for something in the region of £1,800 to £2,000. Given they've had to reverse engineer the design given the lack of data from ZF and the fact the volume will never be huge (probably <3% of the volume the OEM makes for production, that doesn't seem completely unreasonable to me. Other offers were up to £3,500 for different non-OEM makes. Based on other car parts I have supplied/bought over the years I don't believe for one second the manufacturer would sell that part into the trade at anywhere near £1800. If it were a captive OEM part it would be less than that figure, as an aftermarket non original part it would be a lot less than that. How many people were there in between the manufacturer and the guys who you dealt with, all taking their profit from their sale? When they fit one and it goes wrong during the 12 months warranty and it will happen if they do enough of them, who pays for it to be replaced, that money has to come from somewhere? At that point they have to do the job again for free, no chance, that will come from the profit they added to the supply of the sensor in the first place. Manufacturers might give something towards the labour but it never covers the real cost and nobody works for free even when things go wrong. For the record I am not suggesting in any way you got ripped off, all I am saying is the £2,220 + vat you paid for the part may not be quite as it appears. Ultimately the only thing that matters here is you have a car that works for what you have paid and all things considered it could be said you have had a result.

I suspect the production cost of one of these sensors will be sub£100 and quite possibly sub£10 once it’s being made in a proper production run. That said, someone had to put the time in to reverse engineer, redesign, and tool up to make the part so the first one will presumably have cost significantly more and the part will likely go through a few sets of hands before it ever sees a gearbox, and the price will likely double each time. Ultimately they will be priced at what the market can stand to pay, not what they cost to make.

981Boxess said: Speed 3 said: The cost of the sensor charged to me was £2,220 + VAT so I'm assuming the manufacturer is selling to trade for something in the region of £1,800 to £2,000. Given they've had to reverse engineer the design given the lack of data from ZF and the fact the volume will never be huge (probably <3% of the volume the OEM makes for production, that doesn't seem completely unreasonable to me. Other offers were up to £3,500 for different non-OEM makes. Based on other car parts I have supplied/bought over the years I don't believe for one second the manufacturer would sell that part into the trade at anywhere near £1800. If it were a captive OEM part it would be less than that figure, as an aftermarket non original part it would be a lot less than that. How many people were there in between the manufacturer and the guys who you dealt with, all taking their profit from their sale? When they fit one and it goes wrong during the 12 months warranty and it will happen if they do enough of them, who pays for it to be replaced, that money has to come from somewhere? At that point they have to do the job again for free, no chance, that will come from the profit they added to the supply of the sensor in the first place. Manufacturers might give something towards the labour but it never covers the real cost and nobody works for free even when things go wrong. For the record I am not suggesting in any way you got ripped off, all I am saying is the £2,220 + vat you paid for the part may not be quite as it appears. Ultimately the only thing that matters here is you have a car that works for what you have paid and all things considered it could be said you have had a result. If you check the link I provided you ll see they don t sell to private buyers, that $2,341 is the trade price which at current fx is £1,746. Not saying they wouldn t negotiate but who s buying in bulk - no-one I d suggest. They also say no exports but I suspect that is for liability/warranty reasons rather than US technology restrictions. A couple of intermediaries are buying through South Africa and Australia and re-exporting to the UK so they ll be adding a mark up and logistics costs. I d be very surprised if my estimated cost to Revolution isn t in the right ballpark, their markups on service items was reasonable.

Speed 3 said: If you check the link I provided you ll see they don t sell to private buyers, that $2,341 is the trade price which at current fx is £1,746. Not saying they wouldn t negotiate but who s buying in bulk - no-one I d suggest. They also say no exports but I suspect that is for liability/warranty reasons rather than US technology restrictions. A couple of intermediaries are buying through South Africa and Australia and re-exporting to the UK so they ll be adding a mark up and logistics costs. I d be very surprised if my estimated cost to Revolution isn t in the right ballpark, their markups on service items was reasonable. Trade suppliers don’t publish what their customers pay for their goods to the general public, otherwise it would interfere with them having a mark up. The nett price will be trade price less xx%, anyone who is trade will get a discount off even on a one off sale.

A little update for everyone. I gave the supplying dealer indie feedback on their gearbox quote and the fact I was disappointed to belatedly discover they hadn’t done the 12 year service items before I bought it. TBF they agreed they should have done better and I’ve got just under a grand coming back to me this week.

Not good it happened but at least fund’s will help with other repair bill.

Speed 3 said: A little update for everyone. I gave the supplying dealer indie feedback on their gearbox quote and the fact I was disappointed to belatedly discover they hadn t done the 12 year service items before I bought it. TBF they agreed they should have done better and I ve got just under a grand coming back to me this week. You bought a car that works and is serviced for £25.5k, probably a fair price depending on spec/condition The gearbox place got a nice job The car transporter got a nice job The indie who sold it gave back some of their profit to make things better. Sounds like everyone ends up happy?

981Boxess said: You bought a car that works and is serviced for £25.5k, probably a fair price depending on spec/condition The gearbox place got a nice job The car transporter got a nice job The indie who sold it gave back some of their profit to make things better. Sounds like everyone ends up happy? You are a positivity life coach right?

ATM said: 981Boxess said: You bought a car that works and is serviced for £25.5k, probably a fair price depending on spec/condition The gearbox place got a nice job The car transporter got a nice job The indie who sold it gave back some of their profit to make things better. Sounds like everyone ends up happy? You are a positivity life coach right? An annoying one if so. OP brought a car for c. £20k, then within a few months had to spend a further 25% (£5k) on unexpected repairs and servicing. I dont doubt the supplying dealer dodged a bullet, whilst the transport and gearbox places had their palms lined with cash.

ATM said: 981Boxess said: You bought a car that works and is serviced for £25.5k, probably a fair price depending on spec/condition The gearbox place got a nice job The car transporter got a nice job The indie who sold it gave back some of their profit to make things better. Sounds like everyone ends up happy? You are a positivity life coach right? I prefer not going through life crying about things that go wrong and prefer to draw a line under any that crop up and move on. Call that whatever suits you best

bennno said: An annoying one if so. OP brought a car for c. £20k, then within a few months had to spend a further 25% (£5k) on unexpected repairs and servicing. I dont doubt the supplying dealer dodged a bullet, whilst the transport and gearbox places had their palms lined with cash. Very rich coming from someone that offered the OP £5k for his car just to make sure his life was made even worse than it already was.

981Boxess said: ATM said: 981Boxess said: You bought a car that works and is serviced for £25.5k, probably a fair price depending on spec/condition The gearbox place got a nice job The car transporter got a nice job The indie who sold it gave back some of their profit to make things better. Sounds like everyone ends up happy? You are a positivity life coach right? I prefer not going through life crying about things that go wrong and prefer to draw a line under any that crop up and move on. Call that whatever suits you best My sentiments too !

981Boxess said: bennno said: An annoying one if so. OP brought a car for c. £20k, then within a few months had to spend a further 25% (£5k) on unexpected repairs and servicing. I dont doubt the supplying dealer dodged a bullet, whilst the transport and gearbox places had their palms lined with cash. Very rich coming from someone that offered the OP £5k for his car just to make sure his life was made even worse than it already was. Yeah. Disgraceful behaviour..

981Boxess said: Very rich coming from someone that offered the OP £5k for his car just to make sure his life was made even worse than it already was. To be fair the OP's original posts suggested the car was an economic write off having cost £21k and needed a gearbox at £18k. He's done way better managing to get it repaired himself. If he sold now and you assume it's still worth roughly what he paid then effectively he would return £16k on the car having funded the repair. This new knowledge demonstrates it's likely to be worthwhile for any owner to attempt a repair. Selling a non running car with an unknown gearbox fault would mean a repair is anywhere from a best possible £5k to an £18k+ so the non running value would would need to reflect that and the risk of a repair not being suited.

bennno said: 981Boxess said: Very rich coming from someone that offered the OP £5k for his car just to make sure his life was made even worse than it already was. To be fair the OP's original posts suggested the car was an economic write off having cost £21k and needed a gearbox at £18k. He's done way better managing to get it repaired himself. If he sold now and you assume it's still worth roughly what he paid then effectively he would return £16k on the car having funded the repair. This new knowledge demonstrates it's likely to be worthwhile for any owner to attempt a repair. Selling a non running car with an unknown gearbox fault would mean a repair is anywhere from a best possible £5k to an £18k+ so the non running value would would need to reflect that and the risk of a repair not being suited. Can't believe you were so willing to take one for the team to help him out, fair play to you

Be nice to have a update from the OP as to how the car is going a month on......?

No news is good news. In the OP's shoes, I wouldn't tempt Fate by posting, "One month on, and it's running brilliantly!"

It’s behaving as it should

[Image-only or quote-only post; no author-written text.] https://www.pistonheads.com/inc/images/thumbup.gif

Bloody hell just seen this post and glad i have a Porsche warranty on my PDK GTS 981 as when i had a small claim on the car i bought from a well respected indi they almost didnt want to know and gave me 25% of what Porsche quoted for the repair. Makes me think that when my 981 cant be Porsche warrantied anymore i may jump into a 718 4.0 although i'd miss the noise

Esquire said: Bloody hell just seen this post and glad i have a Porsche warranty on my PDK GTS 981 as when i had a small claim on the car i bought from a well respected indi they almost didnt want to know and gave me 25% of what Porsche quoted for the repair. Makes me think that when my 981 cant be Porsche warrantied anymore i may jump into a 718 4.0 although i'd miss the noise Exactly why the only warranty worth having is the pucker Porsche warranty. There is no other warranty that will cover the amounts needed for any serious bill. PDK can not be fixed ... by Porsche. Porsche engines can not be fixed ... by Porsche. They just wholesale change the box or the engine.

ATM said: Esquire said: Bloody hell just seen this post and glad i have a Porsche warranty on my PDK GTS 981 as when i had a small claim on the car i bought from a well respected indi they almost didnt want to know and gave me 25% of what Porsche quoted for the repair. Makes me think that when my 981 cant be Porsche warrantied anymore i may jump into a 718 4.0 although i'd miss the noise Exactly why the only warranty worth having is the pucker Porsche warranty. There is no other warranty that will cover the amounts needed for any serious bill. PDK can not be fixed ... by Porsche. Porsche engines can not be fixed ... by Porsche. They just wholesale change the box or the engine. . I can warranty my car for another 3/4 years and will do but it does beg the question weather I move into the 718 4.0 eventually . Would be a shame as I'd miss the noise of the 981 and I'm pretty smitten with it

Esquire said: ATM said: Esquire said: Bloody hell just seen this post and glad i have a Porsche warranty on my PDK GTS 981 as when i had a small claim on the car i bought from a well respected indi they almost didnt want to know and gave me 25% of what Porsche quoted for the repair. Makes me think that when my 981 cant be Porsche warrantied anymore i may jump into a 718 4.0 although i'd miss the noise Exactly why the only warranty worth having is the pucker Porsche warranty. There is no other warranty that will cover the amounts needed for any serious bill. PDK can not be fixed ... by Porsche. Porsche engines can not be fixed ... by Porsche. They just wholesale change the box or the engine. . I can warranty my car for another 3/4 years and will do but it does beg the question weather I move into the 718 4.0 eventually . Would be a shame as I'd miss the noise of the 981 and I'm pretty smitten with it Very difficult to answer and its mostly a spreadsheet exercise discussing costs for the warranty. Hopefully you already understand how Porsche bend you over for all the related work or bits for your car which have to be Porsche approved. The battery for example on my mate's 991 GT3 was something like 680 quid. Obviously other batteries are available for much less but not Porsche approved. So sticking to OPC for pretty much all services and what not adds to the cost calculations. But then the car itself is a tricky one. The 4 litre must be a bit more pokey. But with modern exhaust rules muted and quiet. You could of course change the exhaust if going after market but then we immediately hit the warranty dilemma. So I think the simplest answer is always the boring one. If you like the car then just keep it. Another option is perhaps adding another alongside. Maybe an older 987 or a 986 or an older 911 of some sort because then the warranty dilemma immediately dissappears.

ATM said: Very difficult to answer and it's mostly a spreadsheet exercise discussing costs for the warranty. Hopefully you already understand how Porsche bend you over for all the related work or bits for your car which have to be Porsche approved. The battery for example on my mate's 991 GT3 was something like 680 quid. Obviously other batteries are available for much less but not Porsche approved. So sticking to OPC for pretty much all services and what not adds to the cost calculations. But then the car itself is a tricky one. The 4 litre must be a bit more pokey. But with modern exhaust rules muted and quiet. You could of course change the exhaust if going after market but then we immediately hit the warranty dilemma. So I think the simplest answer is always the boring one. If you like the car then just keep it. Another option is perhaps adding another alongside. Maybe an older 987 or a 986 or an older 911 of some sort because then the warranty dilemma immediately dissappears. Thanks for your reply much appreciated. I've been lucky enough to have been a P owner for over 30 years so thankfully have some good knowledge of how Porsche OPC's work . Owned lots of cars including GT models and also had a lovely 987 Spyder but with the faff tent like roof it was never going to be a keeper. Have also owned a few aircolled cars along the way and some old 996 models too & now really like the smallness of the Boxster and Cayman models. Also given I use my car pretty much only in the summer a convertible is now a must too so I think the 718 is the obvious next step for me . I don't really have time for 2 cars so it'll be out of the 981 onto the 718. Maybe give it another 18 months and prices start to converge a little.

Esquire said: I can warranty my car for another 3/4 years and will do but it does beg the question weather I move into the 718 4.0 eventually . Would be a shame as I'd miss the noise of the 981 and I'm pretty smitten with it I am in a very similar position with my 981S Boxster, the next service due in the new year will be the 10 year service (full OPC service history), the warranty is still in place. The end of the 718 thread has thrown up the question of whether I should buy a new one whilst I still can, or not, without going into classic PH wideboy mode so often displayed on here, the cost of doing it isn't actually what is putting me off. The new car would cost at least twice as much, but it would be starting again so no problem with that part of the equation. I am not sure the extra bhp serves much of a purpose today on UK roads and I have no interest in tracking my cars, but would only be interested in a 6 cylinder so it is what it is. What I do object to the £4680 new car tax, which I consider to be theft, but that alone isn't enough to stop me. I think the real problem I am having is giving up an absolute gem of a car perfectly specced (for me), that sounds sublime for the latest offering which whilst better in many different ways simply doesn't sound as good. Whether that sounds a bit shallow or not it happens to be the truth, ultimately my car isn't getting any newer so something will have to give eventually, shame, because if I could buy an identical new one today I would do it in a heartbeat.

What's the big fear of running a 981 out of warranty?

John D. said: What's the big fear of running a 981 out of warranty? I was wondering that also

Milnsey said: John D. said: What's the big fear of running a 981 out of warranty? I was wondering that also None at all, it is entirely optional, some prefer to pay to have somewhere to go (without getting shafted) if a big ticket item packs up, some prefer not to. (a debate that has already been done to death)

981Boxess said: I am in a very similar position with my 981S Boxster, the next service due in the new year will be the 10 year service (full OPC service history), the warranty is still in place. The end of the 718 thread has thrown up the question of whether I should buy a new one whilst I still can, or not, without going into classic PH wideboy mode so often displayed on here, the cost of doing it isn't actually what is putting me off. The new car would cost at least twice as much, but it would be starting again so no problem with that part of the equation. I am not sure the extra bhp serves much of a purpose today on UK roads and I have no interest in tracking my cars, but would only be interested in a 6 cylinder so it is what it is. What I do object to the £4680 new car tax, which I consider to be theft, but that alone isn't enough to stop me. I think the real problem I am having is giving up an absolute gem of a car perfectly specced (for me), that sounds sublime for the latest offering which whilst better in many different ways simply doesn't sound as good. Whether that sounds a bit shallow or not it happens to be the truth, ultimately my car isn't getting any newer so something will have to give eventually, shame, because if I could buy an identical new one today I would do it in a heartbeat. I feel the same way. If I could buy a brand new 981 that's the way I'd go . To answer the other posts- some like the peace of mind the full OPC gives especially when you hear of an 18k bill although I'd say the OP was extremely unlucky.

OP - how is the repair going, any issues?

981Boxess said: OP - how is the repair going, any issues? Nothing to report, touch wood. Done a few thousand in it since the repair. Given the cost I sunk into it last year including some suspension work I did myself, I will keep it for a while longer.

Speed 3 said: 981Boxess said: OP - how is the repair going, any issues? Nothing to report, touch wood. Done a few thousand in it since the repair. Given the cost I sunk into it last year including some suspension work I did myself, I will keep it for a while longer. Problem solved

981Boxess said: Milnsey said: John D. said: What's the big fear of running a 981 out of warranty? I was wondering that also None at all, it is entirely optional, some prefer to pay to have somewhere to go (without getting shafted) if a big ticket item packs up, some prefer not to. (a debate that has already been done to death) Warranty just increased to £830 / £1510 / £2160 for 12 / 24 / 36 months for those who would rather have it.

Esquire said: Thanks for your reply much appreciated. I've been lucky enough to have been a P owner for over 30 years so thankfully have some good knowledge of how Porsche OPC's work . Owned lots of cars including GT models and also had a lovely 987 Spyder but with the faff tent like roof it was never going to be a keeper. Have also owned a few aircolled cars along the way and some old 996 models too & now really like the smallness of the Boxster and Cayman models. Also given I use my car pretty much only in the summer a convertible is now a must too so I think the 718 is the obvious next step for me . I don't really have time for 2 cars so it'll be out of the 981 onto the 718. Maybe give it another 18 months and prices start to converge a little. The 718 4.0 looks attractive but it'll be 60k and you may not like the sound it makes. I don't baulk at the very rare PDK failure. My indy says the 981 is builet proof and I've had no mechanical issues in 10yrs and 60k miles in my 2014 2.7 Cayman PDK. I'd hate to have 400bhp, totally unnecessary. If mine goes bang I'll buy another 2 7 for £20k.

981Boxess said: 981Boxess said: Milnsey said: John D. said: What's the big fear of running a 981 out of warranty? I was wondering that also None at all, it is entirely optional, some prefer to pay to have somewhere to go (without getting shafted) if a big ticket item packs up, some prefer not to. (a debate that has already been done to death) Warranty just increased to £830 / £1510 / £2160 for 12 / 24 / 36 months for those who would rather have it. Good spot. Glad I bought 3 years at once, has saved me circa £360...

DJMC said: The 718 4.0 looks attractive but it'll be 60k and you may not like the sound it makes. I don't baulk at the very rare PDK failure. My indy says the 981 is builet proof and I've had no mechanical issues in 10yrs and 60k miles in my 2014 2.7 Cayman PDK. I'd hate to have 400bhp, totally unnecessary. If mine goes bang I'll buy another 2 7 for £20k. Cheers, have decided to keep my 981 for the foreseeable given I rarely get to use it anyway and think you're right in missing the noise.

Out in my car last night i remembered this thread. Firstly OP, I hope you've managed to sort your gearbox issues. My car drives lovely, only on 28k miles and full Porsche warranty. Oddly enough last night I noticed a very slight noise when the car in auto mode went from 2nd to 1st gear. This might be quite normal and I've just not noticed it previously. I'm using the car again this evening so will report back but just wondering if anyone's also noticed this? I could just be being uber paranoid of course .

Esquire said: Out in my car last night i remembered this thread. Firstly OP, I hope you've managed to sort your gearbox issues. My car drives lovely, only on 28k miles and full Porsche warranty. Oddly enough last night I noticed a very slight noise when the car in auto mode went from 2nd to 1st gear. This might be quite normal and I've just not noticed it previously. I'm using the car again this evening so will report back but just wondering if anyone's also noticed this? I could just be being uber paranoid of course . Original gearbox oil / oils?

Esquire said: Out in my car last night i remembered this thread. Firstly OP, I hope you've managed to sort your gearbox issues. My car drives lovely, only on 28k miles and full Porsche warranty. Oddly enough last night I noticed a very slight noise when the car in auto mode went from 2nd to 1st gear. This might be quite normal and I've just not noticed it previously. I'm using the car again this evening so will report back but just wondering if anyone's also noticed this? I could just be being uber paranoid of course . Most old 987.2 used to make a noise when I went from second into first and also sometimes from park into first. My friend (in a convertible) said it sounded like a bolt action rifle. Not sure if that's a good thing, but the car was fine and I asked a Gold technician about it who said it is normal and his view (not Porsche's) was the car likes to avoid first gear if it can hence the PDK will hold second at low speeds until you're pretty much stationary. Also remember that at low speeds the engine RPM will be down so you might notice this noise more than it being there at higher gears but dulled by engine/road noise

ATM said: Original gearbox oil / oils? Not sure when they were last changed although the car has only ever been serviced by OPC's so assuming they would have been changed at some stage ?

SV_WDC said: Most old 987.2 used to make a noise when I went from second into first and also sometimes from park into first. My friend (in a convertible) said it sounded like a bolt action rifle. Not sure if that's a good thing, but the car was fine and I asked a Gold technician about it who said it is normal and his view (not Porsche's) was the car likes to avoid first gear if it can hence the PDK will hold second at low speeds until you're pretty much stationary. Also remember that at low speeds the engine RPM will be down so you might notice this noise more than it being there at higher gears but dulled by engine/road noise Cheers . I'll keep an eye on things but if worsens it'll be going in for an inspection . Like I said , glad I have a warranty

Esquire said: ATM said: Original gearbox oil / oils? Not sure when they were last changed although the car has only ever been serviced by OPC's so assuming they would have been changed at some stage ? 12 year service I think so I'd assume yes but it might be optional Have you owned it for years and years or recently purchased?

ATM said: 12 year service I think so I'd assume yes but it might be optional Have you owned it for years and years or recently purchased? Had it for 2 years now . Will need to check the service booklet and invoices to confirm. One of those things that now it in my head I'm constantly listening for it .

Esquire said: ATM said: 12 year service I think so I'd assume yes but it might be optional Have you owned it for years and years or recently purchased? Had it for 2 years now . Will need to check the service booklet and invoices to confirm. One of those things that now it in my head I'm constantly listening for it . Ok so previous owner may have opted out of PDK service as it's about a grand I'm guessing and then sold soon after

ATM said: Ok so previous owner may have opted out of PDK service as it's about a grand I'm guessing and then sold soon after It's a good point which I'll need to check via the invoices. Will revert. Thanks for the posts

By way of an update - Drove the car this evening and think im definitely being a complete wuss! Yes there was a small 'noise' when the car went into 1st but certainly nothing alarming . Obviously will keep a check on things. Such a great easy car to live with even though I've been considering a change . Anyhow, as we were.