Cayman 987.1 to 987.2S or 981GTS? - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Guys, Simple one this. And no concrete answer - I appreciate that. I have a 987.1 Cayman 2.7 (non-S). Bought at about 97k miles, currently about 140k miles eight years later. Never missed a beat, fully maintained by me. Mainly used as a winter car as my 944 is tucked up in the garage from October to April. I'd planned to hold on to this car until it fell apart. It's a very unusual spec and I now have it pretty much as I want it (wheels/suspension bushes/audio etc). However a friend's son took a shine to it several months ago and is getting quite serious with offers to buy it. Which leads me to wonder what I'd replace it with. So, the question: how much better is a late 987.2S than my 987.1 non-S? It would have to be another Cayman. And another question: how much better is a 981GTS than my 987.1 non-S? Again, it would have to be another Cayman. Money is not a major object. The question is whether the step up (to either 987.2 or 981) would be worth the extra £ I'd have to put into it. And yes, I know that this is entirely subjective so there is no 'right' or 'wrong' answer. Things to make it more complex are that I would insist on having a manual model of 987.2 or 981, and I'd be picky about spec. My current 987.1 has everything (I've never seen another 987 with as many options boxes ticked), and I'd want full leather, heated seats, PASM and so on. I'd also not want a car with a black interior and preferably not a black exterior either. I know the simple and sensible answer is to hold on to the car I already have but the (significant) offer from my friend's son has got me thinking .... Thanks!

I made the move from 987.1 (non-S) to 987.2 S a few years ago and was definitely a significant step up, with the later S model engine feeling considerably beefier particularly in mid-range torque. Cabin interior feels more modern too as you’d expect in the .2. I liked the revvy nature of the 2.7 but had no regrets upgrading at the time. Never driven a 981 although from everything I read they’re a great car but a bit less raw/analogue than 987 generation, which for my use as a B-road tool/weekend car swings in favour of 987.

Co-incidentally, it s interesting that there are currently 0 987.2 Cayman S manual available for sale on AT.

Hi T1547, Thanks for your posts. They're really helpful comments. Did you go for a manual 987.2S, or settle for PDK? I am aware that manual versions of those cars are not that common - there aren't any on Pistonheads Classifieds either! Given that I'd really want a manual, plus I happen to hate cars with black interiors, I suspect that I may be some time finding something which would tick my boxes. And that's before I start wanting PASM and whatnot as well.

Having owned a 987.1 (CS)a 987.2 (Spyder)and 981 (GT4)I would say the 987.2 is the sweet spot out of the 3 generations, manual of course. PASM is not essential much prefer a passive set up

Hold out for a 987.2 S Black edition, likely to have all the options you want and the slightly better R engine, without the R exclusivity. Only problem is the colour and you may be waiting a while.

I had a 981 S with a lot of the GTS options ticked, I then had it tuned to produce GTS power + a little more, loved that car! it was PDK but I had the PDK tuned as well so you pushed forwards for down and backwards for up gears like a sequential. It might be worth getting out there and driving a few though as some people dont like the steering in the 981 compared to 987.

I had a 987.1, 987.2 ,981 S and now a 2016 981 GTS which I have had for nearly 4 years. Each subsequent version was appreciably better than the previous, in particular the 981 examples. The GTS however is just lovely, I'm sometimes moved to update, but I cant justify the price difference to a 718 or indeed anything that fits my requirements better. I'd suggest a GTS as apart from it being a lovely place to be, seems to hardly depreciate. I paid £50k for mine in mid 2016 from a Porsche dealer, and they are not far off that now. Weirdly 2014 versions are up for nearly the same price as 2016 ones generally.

981 definitely an improvement over a 987.2 I’d say. Quieter and more refined generally. But if you like the opposite… 981 GTS one of the best cars I’ve owned.

In driving terms, the 987.2 is very little changed. I've owned both and done about 70k miles in each version and I'd say 3.4 versus 3.4, the reality is that it's less than 10% more power and torque and that's how it feels. The main benefit of the .2 9A1 engine in driving terms is that it revs out a bit better. The .1 is pretty flat above 6k. In other areas, the .2 PASM is a bit better, but still not that great, and I'd say if anything the .1 has nicer steering. I think they re-valved the rack for the .2 and there's a touch less feedback. The interior upgrades are likewise very limited, contrary to most characterisations. It's just the updated centre console control panel, that's it. And the .2 is seriously dated at this point, too. It's also a nightmare finding a .2 with decent spec. They're nearly all poverty, including the Black Edition, which personally I definitely would not hold out for. I mean, buy one if you like the black paint etc and a nice one comes up. Just don't prioritise one on the basis of a materially different driving experience, which it isn't. Standard spec on the Black Edition is crap, too, and most of them are also poorly specced. As mentioned, very few 987.2 manual are available at any one time, and nicely specced ones with the extended leather interior, which for me makes a huge difference to the cabin ambience, are very rare. Probably four or five appear annually, of which one or two are nice examples and even those will probably require compromising on some spec items and very likely on colour. It's actually easier to find a nice R, much easier. Main benefit of the .2 therefore is a far, far more reliable engine (incidentally, ignore some of the recent noise around 9A1 reliability or lack thereof, it's overhyped nonsense, failures remain very much the exception). But a Hartech rebuilt .1 is a god alternative in that regard. Re the 981, it's a fairly different beast. More refined, but more remote. I think a well-specced 981 interior is pretty unambiguously a nicer place to be and it's a more pleasant car for touring. But for driving fun, it's more subjective. The 987 is more involving, the 981 more capable. Take you pick. Oh, the 981 does sound better. Easily. I personally find having owned a lot of these cars, you always miss some aspects of whatever version you don't currently own. I've ultimately landed on the 987.2 as my long term favourite, but the caveat is that I've done quite a few things to wake the car up. All 987s are a bit dead behind the eyes is factory spec. If I wasn't allowed to make any changes to the factory spec, I'd have a 981 S manual with X73 and PSE. A GTS adds very little in terms of driving thrills to a 981S with that spec, but costs a chunk more. But nice 981S manuals are also very rare. Again, it's a lot easier to find a GTS. If allowed to make changes, the 987.2 is my pick. Good luck.

“Upgrade to a 911”

My tuppence worth...I've owned my 987.2 S manual for fourteen years (sorry you can't have it) I did plan to change it at one point to a 981 GTS. Just by chance I was given a driving morning by my OPC at the time and what turned up was a 981 GTS which had the X73 suspension package...it was a lovely thing I thought that's it I am having one. Then I drove it, what has been said about the steering is 100% true, after driving a hydraulic set-up its electric steering is quite poor by comparison, the lack of feel is very noticeable so much so that it put me off buying the GTS, I was kind of gutted to be truthful. Jumping back into my own car it felt tighter if you know what I mean, I don't know why but it just did.

Context - I've had an early 996.1 C2 Manual Coupe, a 987.1 Cayman S Manual, and now have a 981 Boxster S PDK. Readers Cars Threads: 996 https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... 987 https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... 981 and now https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... I did consider getting a 987.2, but I couldn't find a good one. I'd have happily had a Boxster Spyder or a Cayman R, but they seemed very punchy pricing for me. I think if I didn't already have a 987 I might have felt the change would have been more significant and thus worth it. So. The electric steering is different. There is no denying that. But it isn't anywhere near as bad as people make out after reading the latest evo magazine or nipping one round the block. Get in one and spend some real decent time driving some good backroads. You can 'map' the steering to the GT4 settings with a ThinkDiag box off Amazon. The 981 is, in my mind, a huge leap on from a 987 in the overall package. I loved my 987.1, but the 981 feels *really* special. What I would say, is don't discount a well optioned 981 Cayman S. My Boxster S has 'basically' GTS spec. With a remap the only different would be the seats not saying GTS on them. It was also ~£10k less.

conanius said: Context - I've had an early 996.1 C2 Manual Coupe, a 987.1 Cayman S Manual, and now have a 981 Boxster S PDK. Readers Cars Threads: 996 https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... 987 https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... 981 and now https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... I did consider getting a 987.2, but I couldn't find a good one. I'd have happily had a Boxster Spyder or a Cayman R, but they seemed very punchy pricing for me. I think if I didn't already have a 987 I might have felt the change would have been more significant and thus worth it. So. The electric steering is different. There is no denying that. But it isn't anywhere near as bad as people make out after reading the latest evo magazine or nipping one round the block. Get in one and spend some real decent time driving some good backroads. You can 'map' the steering to the GT4 settings with a ThinkDiag box off Amazon. The 981 is, in my mind, a huge leap on from a 987 in the overall package. I loved my 987.1, but the 981 feels *really* special. What I would say, is don't discount a well optioned 981 Cayman S. My Boxster S has 'basically' GTS spec. With a remap the only different would be the seats not saying GTS on them. It was also ~£10k less. I think there is a reason the GTS's tend to be £10k more - slightly more exclusive, bit nicer front end and definately hold their price better, so overall cost actually is less when you actually decide to swap.

andygo said: I think there is a reason the GTS's tend to be £10k more - slightly more exclusive, bit nicer front end and definately hold their price better, so overall cost actually is less when you actually decide to swap. No doubt at all Just a 981 S is comparable pricing to a 987.2 S.... a 981 GTS isn't a million miles off double the price so the comparison starts being a little unfair

andygo said: definately hold their price better, so overall cost actually is less when you actually decide to swap. That hasn't been true for some years. GTS depreciated less initially, but all of these cars - 981 S, 981 GTS, 987.2 - have been flat and essentially not depreciating (ignoring inflation and assuming no additional mileage) for five, six, seven years, whatever. But the GTS has a higher buy-in cost and thus more money tied up and not working for you. Over that time frame you'd have been better off financially by far buying a 981 S and putting the spare £10k into the markets if what you're worried about is minimising losses. That £10k in the S&P 500 seven years ago would be worth about £25k today, Of course, in future the GTS may take off and the gap widen. Or not. It's impossible to say. So, buy if GTS if you really like the GTS. But the idea that it's been cheaper to buy in and out of in recent years isn't accurate.

981 GTS is my favourite of all the cars I've owned. If I was looking for a Cayman, that's what I would buy.

Biased here but had my 987.2 (boxster) for 6 years now. Purchased on 7.5 k miles and now on 55k. Wont ever sell as nothing like it for the price in my view. Brilliant daily driver and used in all weathers. If comfort more your thing then defo 981 GTS, but if driving is of more priority than luxury, 987.2 all the way. As mentioned all 987.2 are generally povvo spec and mine no different. Only thing I really wanted were heated seats. You could always retrim if you wanted extended leather etc. The porsche oem stuff isn't up to much. Gone to town elsewhere, rear end poly bushed + engine mount. Ohlins set up by CG. Spyder rear arb, side vents and front splitters. Big difference was full manifolds, exhaust and 200 cell cats with remap. Feels like the car it was meant to be and the perfect a & b road weapon. Roof off in summer is icing on cake. I think 987.2 reliability vs price means you will probably never have to sell, especially if you make it your own with a few tweaks. Keep the suspension refreshed every 3-4 years, the oil changed every 6k and its just bliss.

I've owned both. My manual 987.2 is the best car I've ever owned, and probably won't ever be beaten.

I had a 987.1 3.2S Boxster followed by a 996 3.4 and now a 981 S. I went to look at a 987.1 2.7 Cayman before the 981 S and it's definitely worth the change/upgrade. As one of the other posters has already said, the prices between 987.2 and 981 mean it was always going to be a 981 for me. It's much more modern inside and imo, looks better.

Guys, Thanks to you all for your replies. They are all helpful and appreciated. I started this thread thinking that a 981GTS was probably the obvious choice but a bit of research suggests that the 987.2S which was originally thrown in as a makeweight is probably the one that appeals more. I like nimble, I like connectedness and I like mechanical feel. The 987 has more of these than the 981 (although you will notice that I am avoiding calling either a 'better' car.) The strong wants are thus: - Manual - More pep than the current 2.7 987.1 - Hard top - Just as much fun to drive, if not more - Non-black colour scheme. (Let me explain this a bit more; a car with black exterior and interior would be a no-no. Black exterior and a pale or coloured interior would be OK. Ideal would be something with a coloured exterior and pale or coloured interior.) - No significant reduction on the spec of my 987.1 (full leather interior, sports seats, heated seats, probably PASM.) Finding a 987.2S in this spec could take a while. As people have observed, there are few 987.2S manual cars out there and they don't come up for sale often. Being picky in the other bits of my spec narrows the field down worse. Therefore the options are: - Compromise. Settle for a PDK/DSG gearbox. This is an option but not an attractive one. And I'd still be looking at a small pool of potential purchases. - Look at a 997 (i.e 911 platform) instead. This would mean more choice of cars but I'm not sure it's worth the extra expense and the mid-engined platform has always appealed more as a purist option than the rear-engine of the 911. - Look at other brands. An Alpine is the obvious choice and has significant appeal. How bad is the luggage space in one? Perhaps I need to have a look at one. - Do something else. Other cars in the household are a 944 (which I love and which is staying put) and an older Fabia, which my wife uses to go to work and is generally practical . However this is coming to the end of it's life and I was looking at BMW i3's to replace it. Perhaps an alternative to the Cayman Conundrum would be to replace the Fabia with something practical and fun (Golf GTI being the starting point because I am boring) and replace the Cayman with something more balls-to-the-wall like a Caterham. The obvious downside of this is that we would then end up with two summer-use cars (Caterham and the 944), but the Fabia replacement would tick the all-year-'round-fun box so we'd probably cope. Hmmm. Decisions. (Of course, the obvious decision would be simply to stick with what I have as the existing 987.1 Cayman is great in many, many ways. Perhaps I should do this instead and keep the money in my pocket!) Thanks again for your help. I'll keep this thread updated with decisions!

If a 997.2 is within budget then it’s much, much easier to find a good spec example. Does drive a bit differently, obviously. 987 is a bit more sports car-y and nimble. But the 997 is hardly a lump.

987.2 manual is the best car I've ever owned

Its funny how a lot of people who go looking for 987.2's get very hung up with the interior trim, stock dash vs extended leather, there's nothing wrong with the stock dash its very nice quality and feels good to the touch, you could end up missing out on a great car just because it doesn't have a leather dash. If leather is what you really want this will drastically reduce the amount of available cars to you, and that's before colour, grearbox, sport seats, wheels, suspension and most importantly condition come into it, there's not a lot of these cars around to be that picky you could end up waiting years or never find the "perfect" car then you would miss out on the best bit...driving it. Just look on the Cayman R thread for people dismissing cars because it doesn't have one thing they want and because of this they never get the pleasure of owning one...personally I think that's mental. OP good luck with your search for a car, when you find one please post some pictures for us to see.

No affiliation - this is the best 987.2 non R out there. Its got it all. A unicorn. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202601119... Edited by Jones the cat on Sunday 18th January 01:58

Re looking at other brands I drove a 987.2 3.4 S PDK (full leather, PASM, etc) from 2015-2020. A few months ago I bought an Alpine A110S; the engine is surprisingly torquey for a 2 litre, the S suspension is firm (like PASM sport all the time, but the standard model is softer), but less weight, superb bucket seats and a low driving position makes the longer-geared Porsche seem like a lardy GT in comparison. It might be 30hp down on my old Cayman but it s also 300kg lighter. Brakes and steering feel are comparable, but the luggage space is barely half of what a Cayman could carry, so you ll need to pack judiciously for anything more than a few nights one night away. Overall the A110 probably has more in common with an Elise/MX5 than a Cayman, and they are perhaps bit Marmite in looks and interior feel; I m certainly enjoying mine. Edited by Michael_B on Sunday 18th January 08:41

2Btoo said: Guys, - Look at other brands. An Alpine is the obvious choice and has significant appeal. How bad is the luggage space in one? Perhaps I need to have a look at one. Thanks again for your help. I'll keep this thread updated with decisions! Surprised to see an Alpine suggested on a Porsche forum. They have their dedicated fans but is a very different proposition to a Cayman. Luggage space is basically non existent, and reliability is quite poor (try reading the Alpine forums, Porsche not perfect but Alpine far worse). Always seemed odd to me making an enthusiast sports car that was four pot turbo and not available in manual. Definitely compromised. In terms of Caymans good shout 987.2, steering is so much better, 981s are very compromised, GTS so overrated despite all the forum fawning we read about on here.

2Btoo said: I started this thread thinking that a 981GTS was probably the obvious choice but a bit of research suggests that the 987.2S which was originally thrown in as a makeweight is probably the one that appeals more. I like nimble, I like connectedness and I like mechanical feel. The 987 has more of these than the 981 (although you will notice that I am avoiding calling either a 'better' car.) Fair enough. Think the big two things missing from ruling out the 981 though is the sports exhaust (induction into the cabin which wasn't on the 987 platform), and the interior of the 981. This is less-so the trim and more the way the centre console 'hems' you in. I owned a 987.2 (base) for 6 years. Excellent car, absolutely loved it. 981GTS is a different beast and both variations have their strengths and weaknesses but every time I get in the 981 it feels like the LMP cars which drove my aspirations to own a Porsche. Also it's still very much a go-kart. But there is a huge difference between a 987.2S and 981GTS. For start, the latter is going to be at least £25k more expensive. So it will be a heart over head decision. Do not rule out a well-optioned 981. To be honest, reading this and your earlier post I also wonder whether a base 987.2 or 981 would suit better as the smaller engine means you're going to need to rev it more to extract performance. If manual is a must then base model could be lots of fun

What do you mean about the 981 sports exhaust and induction into the cabin? Does the sports exhaust come with a different induction arrangement?

Clad-Hach said: Its funny how a lot of people who go looking for 987.2's get very hung up with the interior trim, stock dash vs extended leather, there's nothing wrong with the stock dash its very nice quality and feels good to the touch, you could end up missing out on a great car just because it doesn't have a leather dash. This kind of thing is obviously subjective. Personally I think the plastic dash and door cards are pretty grim. But it’s certainly and advantage if you are happy with that in terms of finding a good car.

John D. said: What do you mean about the 981 sports exhaust and induction into the cabin? Does the sports exhaust come with a different induction arrangement? Yes, the system was redesigned in the 981 to 'pipe' more engine sound into the cabin. It basically uses a diaphragm to increase sound resonance. If you run Sports mode in the 987 and 981 they sound markedly different. In the cabin, the 981 is more noticeable, and deeper. 981 also included overrun (active in Sport) so you get more of the crackles and burbles not in the earlier generations.

SV_WDC said: John D. said: What do you mean about the 981 sports exhaust and induction into the cabin? Does the sports exhaust come with a different induction arrangement? Yes, the system was redesigned in the 981 to 'pipe' more engine sound into the cabin. It basically uses a diaphragm to increase sound resonance. If you run Sports mode in the 987 and 981 they sound markedly different. In the cabin, the 981 is more noticeable, and deeper. 981 also included overrun (active in Sport) so you get more of the crackles and burbles not in the earlier generations. Deffo making the case for the 987 there I'd say, those god awful mapped pops and crackles on overrun piped directly into the cabin on the 981(or extra loud NVH) vs an authentic engine sound and no piping. Of course if one is inclined towards Max Power then the 981 is clearly the correct choice. Lol.

Had a 981 Cayman S for just about 6 years so you could I liked it. In fact loved it. It was spec'd (not by me) virtually as a GTS (although they weren't available at the time of build), with the exception of PSE. It sounds wonderful without. I actually had it retrofitted, so you don't get the additional induction sound mentioned above. It sounded even better under acceleration (the best I've owned and now on my 4th 911). However, the pops and bangs are really unneccesary imo. I wouldn't ignore a 981 without PSE if it has everything else you'd want. There are many exhaust options out there.

I had a 987 Boxster 2.7 for 8 years and really enjoyed driving it all over Europe in that time but we acquired a 2.7 981 Cayman and ran the 2 in parallel for a couple of years until we decided it wasn't practical to keep both so made the decision to let the Boxster go. We've now had the Cayman for 10 years and its unlikely it'll ever be sold as for todays roads and traffic its probably right in the middle of the ownership/entertainment sweet spot. In the end everyone is going to have a different opinion and the only way you're going to know what to do is to drive all the cars on your list and make the decision based on your experience. Either way you'll end up with a cracking car.

Guys, Thanks for the comments. There's a bit of an update. The friend (well, friend's son) came over for a very amiable lunch, walk-around the car, ruffle through history and paperwork, eyeball at the pile of spare parts I have for the car and a drive, and despite me doing all I could to dissuade him he has decided he does want it. (The make-or-break point was whether he could fit an ironing board in the back; he's an army officer so does quite a lot of ironing of kit. An ironing board was found in our laundry room and it fitted a treat!) There's no rush to find the replacement as he's in no rush to buy, but I now need to start looking for something to replace it with. In practice, I may well sell him the car in the next coming couple of months as I can then use the 944 during spring/summer and look for a new 987 at my leisure. However I do need to start looking. So ... 987.2, S, manual. Not black/black (I could cope with black outside or black inside but not both). Good condition. Not worried about mileage. Needs to have heated seats, sports for preference. Nice to have would be full leather and some bright colours; the grey exterior and red interior of my current one is perfect. If anyone has any links to suitable machines then post them here .... thanks!

Just picked this 987.2 S for the missus from Strasse It’s PDK as was her previous 718 Boxster and I have to say I’m really impressed with it I’m a serial manual 911 owner and am really impressed with this 987 genuinely think I prefer the more analogue feel of the 987