Real Value of a 997? - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Following on from the 'real value of a 996' thread - what do you folk make of the current 997 market? Feels to me like 996's that were cheap as chips a few year back have bounced a little, as more enthusiast cars percolated back in the the system Are 997's now in a similar trough? this one nicely specced C2S at MPC went for £18k last month & this tip made just £14.5k at Matthewsons lately as well. Are they gonna to the way of 993/964's? (i was lucky enough to buy one in 2004 for about £10k, unluckily for me, i sold it a few years later and was very smug that I got £12k back on it..... )

BERGS2 said: Following on from the 'real value of a 996' thread - what do you folk make of the current 997 market? Feels to me like 996's that were cheap as chips a few year back have bounced a little, as more enthusiast cars percolated back in the the system Are 997's now in a similar trough? this one nicely specced C2S at MPC went for £18k last month & this tip made just £14.5k at Matthewsons lately as well. Are they gonna to the way of 993/964's? (i was lucky enough to buy one in 2004 for about £10k, unluckily for me, i sold it a few years later and was very smug that I got £12k back on it..... ) Both early Tiptronic cars, the first one having the wrong wheels - and probably the least appealing of the later wheels. I am not looking at either of those and thinking "phwoar".

BERGS2 said: Are they gonna to the way of 993/964's? They built far, far more of them, so no, is the short and simple answer. Even taking into account engine-related attrition.

Nice gen1 997's (with an engine rebuild) are likely to increase in value, as are Gen 2 997's. They will never get to the crazy levels of the 964/993 though - as mentioned above - built in far fewer numbers and has the 'air-cooled' die-hards salivating over them.

Classic cars all go the same way. They either get scrapped or broken for parts if the repairs are too costly or they get proper money spent on them and that is reflected in the price. 997 Carrera S coupe in manual form is already getting harder to find, currently only 26 for sale on autotrader. 1 997.1 with an engine rebuild at £35k with 80k miles on it at eporsche. Then we have a nice 09 plate .2 with 67k miles and another .2 on a 58 plate with 65k miles at £48k both with private sellers. Now, I would like to think those cars are in very fine fettle with the niggly jobs done and all suspension refreshed and feeling like new. We are already at the age where many of the cars for sale will need a good £10k spending on them before they feel factory fresh, and that is not even considering bore score issues (which are overblown imho, but do dictate what the market price is whether we like it or not.). Owners with good ones are keeping them. Why wouldn't you? My 997.1 Carrera S is fully rebuilt, in great condition, 80k miles, good spec. and offers something you simply can't buy today. If I sold it for say £30k what would I replace it with? A manual 991.1 would cost me another £20k and offer me what? A manual 991 Carrera T could be nice to have a go with, but I really do prefer the NA engine, and wouldn't want to pay £35-40k more. I have decided I might as well just keep the 997.1 forever, it offers something modern cars don't and for what I will get for it what's the point of selling it? If it jumps up in value a lot, if it means I could try someone else by throwing a few quid in I might sell. I bet there are many owners thinking the same.

wax lyrical said: Nice gen1 997's (with an engine rebuild) are likely to increase in value, as are Gen 2 997's. They will never get to the crazy levels of the 964/993 though - as mentioned above - built in far fewer numbers and has the 'air-cooled' die-hards salivating over them. Tiptronics will always lag behind IMHO.

Furbo said: wax lyrical said: Nice gen1 997's (with an engine rebuild) are likely to increase in value, as are Gen 2 997's. They will never get to the crazy levels of the 964/993 though - as mentioned above - built in far fewer numbers and has the 'air-cooled' die-hards salivating over them. Tiptronics will always lag behind IMHO. True. By some margin. For the Gen 2 cars, the PDK box is much better and some people prefer it to the manual, but there will always be 'manual-only' die-hards.

There's a Gen 2 997 C4S PDK, with 135k miles on the clock, on Autotrader - £32K. Seems really good value given the meticulous maintenance, owned by an enthusiast, etc.

The 997 PDK is not the best iteration though, if I was going PDK I think I would go for a 991. All autos lag behind manuals as the cars age, what was the pinnacle of modern gearbox design looks rather dated two decades on. I wouldn't not own a PDK 997, but the 997 pdk vs 991 pdk is quite a jump and the 991 is now around the same price. The 991 Carrera S is 30kg lighter than the 997, it is less than 30mm wider, and the only real negative compared to the 997 was the steering was not quite as communicative, but it is still brilliant. The main issue was it was so much more money to upgrade, that is becoming less of an issue.

Ed.Neumann said: The 997 PDK is not the best iteration though, if I was going PDK I think I would go for a 991. I've had both. Give me the 997. The 991 box is faster, but the 997 is the far better car.

Ed.Neumann said: . I bet there are many owners thinking the same. I am one of them. Full suspension refresh and 4.1 Hartech rebuild (plus all the bits "while we are in there") on our manual C4S. Trigger's broom It's not worth as much as I have spent on it but who cares? We love it.

Furbo said: Tiptronics will always lag behind IMHO. They're not that slow to change gear. Oh, wait, you meant...

Furbo said: Ed.Neumann said: The 997 PDK is not the best iteration though, if I was going PDK I think I would go for a 991. I've had both. Give me the 997. The 991 box is faster, but the 997 is the far better car. Interesting. That is good to know. I like the 991 and think it is a good middle ground, but nice to hear someone else say they prefer the 997. I keep thinking of having a change, as we all do, but know deep down inside, as a Sunday/Funday car the 997 probably suits my needs better.

Furbo said: Ed.Neumann said: The 997 PDK is not the best iteration though, if I was going PDK I think I would go for a 991. I've had both. Give me the 997. The 991 box is faster, but the 997 is the far better car. Agreed. The 991 doesn’t look as good (to me) and the steering is a definitely inferior. Also the interior is more ‘Panamera Coupe’ than 911. It’s lost a lot of the 911 DNA. As has the 992.

As others have said it's going to come down to generation, gear box and then optional extras then the all important condition condition condtion. It'd be nice to know what stuff actually sells for. I'd put my Gen 2 Manual up for £48k tomorrow if I actually beleived I'd get that much......although I have an amazing habit of selling cars just before they jump in price

Daston said: As others have said it's going to come down to generation, gear box and then optional extras then the all important condition condition condtion. It'd be nice to know what stuff actually sells for. I'd put my Gen 2 Manual up for £48k tomorrow if I actually beleived I'd get that much......although I have an amazing habit of selling cars just before they jump in price Yup, I sold one once that went from ten £23500 I sold it for to about £200k in very short order

As a newbie to this world I find Porsche values very interesting, even a 5 yr old macan with reasonable miles is £35k with the golf GTi 2.0 engine. it's such a powerful consumer brand and you have the trendy brand conscious buyers (most leased 911s plodding around London) and the PH community! As to 997, interesting dealers now pricing good 997.2 above 991 so they're seeing these as peak. As said down to spec and too many produced to make real values increase however as all new car prices go up with inflation these £40k +/- cars are fairly safe depreciation proof The premium of the 997.2 v .1 is understandable and fuelled by internet doom. The bargains have to be the 997.1 that have engine work and all the mid life crisis work done. These can be had for 60% of a value of some 997.2 and potentially the 997.2 needs much of this work done Agree with comments above as the numbers thin out values will be sustained as quality ones dominate the market and importantly they're not going to make good n/a manual gearbox volume cars ever again. Sure some specials north of £100k but not for us mortals Facebook great for values as owners feel their car is worth sooo much!

If any water cooled 911 is ever to be “restomod” it’ll the the 997. Even 996s are beginning to get some serious love, I believe the 997 will be a stone cold classic in due course.

PRO5T said: If any water cooled 911 is ever to be restomod it ll the the 997. Even 996s are beginning to get some serious love, I believe the 997 will be a stone cold classic in due course. In a way the Gen 2 is a factory Restomod. It has an engine that was used in later models, updated infotainment system (will be even better with the factory upgrade coming) yet still retains all the great analogue parts

Out and about in my 7.2 GT3 again on the weekend. What a highlight of a car. My later Tourings may have the better performance stats but the older car is just so full of feedback and wonderful to drive. And the vanilla 997s are just utterly gorgeous

Daston said: PRO5T said: If any water cooled 911 is ever to be restomod it ll the the 997. Even 996s are beginning to get some serious love, I believe the 997 will be a stone cold classic in due course. In a way the Gen 2 is a factory Restomod. It has an engine that was used in later models, updated infotainment system (will be even better with the factory upgrade coming) yet still retains all the great analogue parts It's a truism that the 997.2 GTS was the sweet spot. I have had a lot of 911s, from 1980 onwards, and it was the best of them.

they are also £85k these days for a manual 2wd car. Some won't pay it, Paragon have a nice one in atm.

911_Speedster said: they are also £85k these days for a manual 2wd car. Some won't pay it, Paragon have a nice one in atm. It's a very good one at first glance. Aero, the required options and "investment gearbox".

It's certainly diminishing returns with a GTS. Double the money of a well-specced Gen 2 3.6, but hardly double the car. Nor is it 3-4x a 987.2CS. Etc. Actually think the real value sweetspot is probably in a 997.1S that's had a full recent Hartech 3.9 rebuild. Or find one with a knackered engine and get that work done yourself. But a low mile, nicely specced Gen 2 car with lots of life left in it is very appealing. Money no object, the GTS is great. It's just not good value for what you're getting in terms of the driving experience over a regular 997.2 at today's valuations.

housemouse said: It's certainly diminishing returns with a GTS. Double the money of a well-specced Gen 2 3.6, but hardly double the car. Nor is it 3-4x a 987.2CS. Etc. Actually think the real value sweetspot is probably in a 997.1S that's had a full recent Hartech 3.9 rebuild. Or find one with a knackered engine and get that work done yourself. But a low mile, nicely specced Gen 2 car with lots of life left in it is very appealing. Money no object, the GTS is great. It's just not good value for what you're getting in terms of the driving experience over a regular 997.2 at today's valuations. There are investment considerations I think. If any of the non-GT cars is going to increase over time I think the GTS will lead the pack.

Furbo said: There are investment considerations I think. If any of the non-GT cars is going to increase over time I think the GTS will lead the pack. For sure. But you'll obviously hammer that investment if you drive the car much. All a bit of a turn off. Half the price for a car that gives 90% of experience and actually gets driven so much more appealing as a notion than a car where the value is tied up in investment / fashion considerations.

Castellet said: I wouldn t be fussed by a GTS. A nice 997.2 Base or S, Manual, Coupe for under £50k, to use and enjoy, could be a wiser buy imv. Depends on your viewpoint. Plenty of buyer happy to have something they can use 2kpa and retain value. Also worth noting that these have reached the point where stuff is starting to need sorting because old.

Just drive the GTS ! Other cars are 90% for sure, but the GTS has that engine which was a £15k option alone in the other models if one dare tick the X51 Powerkit box ! Loads of very nice cars about but very few outstanding Porsche models imo. A manual GTS is one and I guess that is why they are priced as they are. It's a way better car and engine than a 981 GT4. An example of a good car but not a great car. GTS makes power to red line and that's what you pay for. A 3.6 or an S or even the 981 GT4 just cannot compete engine wise and is puffing at 6.5k revs One might say the Sports classic is the daft car money wise, it's just a GTS after all. Some times that magic in a car is the last 10% . Smart buy is a 997.2 x51 power kit car I guess but did they even make any it will be single digit numbers , i see 997.1 power kit cars, but never seen a 997.2 X51 car for sale.?

Is there any love for the 997.1 C2S? I had one and thought it was a really well balanced little car, and compared to a friends 997.2 we both thought it sounded better (both on the stock exhausts). ON the road both felt equally fast as well really. I thought at the time ‘this is all the sportscar you’d ever need’ but then of course the lure of more power led me to other things. I’d buy one again though. I know there’s the IMS and bore scoring worry but it’s not that expensive to fix if it happens

911_Speedster said: they are also £85k these days for a manual 2wd car. Some won't pay it, Paragon have a nice one in atm. A PDK can set you back £90K - so a low mileage manual could easily command £100K+ I feel. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/19915005

housemouse said: It's certainly diminishing returns with a GTS. Double the money of a well-specced Gen 2 3.6, but hardly double the car. Nor is it 3-4x a 987.2CS. Etc. Actually think the real value sweetspot is probably in a 997.1S that's had a full recent Hartech 3.9 rebuild. Or find one with a knackered engine and get that work done yourself. But a low mile, nicely specced Gen 2 car with lots of life left in it is very appealing. Money no object, the GTS is great. It's just not good value for what you're getting in terms of the driving experience over a regular 997.2 at today's valuations. 997 GTS Manual is great value if you bought one in 2014 for £60k with 13k miles and kept it for the last 12 years . But seriously I think they are quite special and will not sell mine after over a decade of ownership. It’s currently sat next to a 991.2 GT3 CS and although they are very different cars it is holding its own (including in the engine department). Next to a GT product that’s pretty incredible.

c4sman said: housemouse said: It's certainly diminishing returns with a GTS. Double the money of a well-specced Gen 2 3.6, but hardly double the car. Nor is it 3-4x a 987.2CS. Etc. Actually think the real value sweetspot is probably in a 997.1S that's had a full recent Hartech 3.9 rebuild. Or find one with a knackered engine and get that work done yourself. But a low mile, nicely specced Gen 2 car with lots of life left in it is very appealing. Money no object, the GTS is great. It's just not good value for what you're getting in terms of the driving experience over a regular 997.2 at today's valuations. 997 GTS Manual is great value if you bought one in 2014 for £60k with 13k miles and kept it for the last 12 years . But seriously I think they are quite special and will not sell mine after over a decade of ownership. It s currently sat next to a 991.2 GT3 CS and although they are very different cars it is holding its own (including in the engine department). Next to a GT product that s pretty incredible. Snap I moved from a 997.1 C2S to a 991.2 GT3 CS simply because I wanted something able to take the abuse on track, but I still miss my 997.1

Jones the cat said: 911_Speedster said: they are also £85k these days for a manual 2wd car. Some won't pay it, Paragon have a nice one in atm. A PDK can set you back £90K - so a low mileage manual could easily command £100K+ I feel. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/19915005 I am not seeing £90k there and I don't recall seeing a £100k 7GTS. Happy to be corrected.

Inlineonline said: Is there any love for the 997.1 C2S? I love the 997.1 S, much prefer it to the 997.2, it sounds so much deeper, there is something that the non direct injection cars don't have in this regard. Not saying anyone should buy a 997.1 over a 997.2, the .2 is a much safer ownership proposition, but if money is no object the .1 offers something that the .2 just doesn't, and as time goes on and people hanker a classic feeling car it will be interesting to see which one the market likes most or if it becomes less of an issue when all the .1's have had their rebuilds. Mind you, as much as I love the S, the 3.6 manual is arguably even sweeter as a road car imho. The way it revs is just divine, it almost has a LWF feel to it. (A bit of an exaggeration but those that have driven them will get what I mean.)

I’m biased, but bog standard 2005 3.8 tiptronic, use it every day, had a fresh engine rebuild when I bought it, had it for about 12 months and done 10K in it. I’ve owned 3 911s and would not describe myself as a fan as such, but they have all been lovely cars and not sure what else I would get that does what they do at this price point. Edited as the apostrophes keep getting taken out! Edited by 996Type on Wednesday 20th May 21:00

996Type said: I m biased, but bog standard 2005 3.8 tiptronic, use it every day, had a fresh engine rebuild when I bought it, had it for about 12 months and done 10K in it. is that a 3.8 due to having had the rebuild?

Inlineonline said: Is there any love for the 997.1 C2S? I had one and thought it was a really well balanced little car, and compared to a friends 997.2 we both thought it sounded better (both on the stock exhausts). ON the road both felt equally fast as well really. I thought at the time this is all the sportscar you d ever need but then of course the lure of more power led me to other things. I d buy one again though. I know there s the IMS and bore scoring worry but it s not that expensive to fix if it happens that was one of my favouriters back in the day - Slighlty lighter than a C4S, 375 bhp (?) did it have the wider arches as well? I can't recall.... Of course - if the IMS and borescoring scare stories worry you still - you could get one of these and lose any concerns.... Then it's only the turbos and gearbox to worry about....

Furbo said: I am not seeing £90k there and I don't recall seeing a £100k 7GTS. Happy to be corrected. Only a matter a time for a low mileage manual

911_Speedster said: Some times that magic in a car is the last 10% . Smart buy is a 997.2 x51 power kit car I guess but did they even make any it will be single digit numbers , i see 997.1 power kit cars, but never seen a 997.2 X51 car for sale.? I have a 997.2 C4 GTS Cab with the X51 Power Kit, bought it in 2020 from Paragon and thought I'd have it 2 years and move it on, 6 years later and still struggling to work out WTF to replace it with ...

dibblecorse said: I have a 997.2 C4 GTS Cab with the X51 Power Kit, bought it in 2020 from Paragon and thought I'd have it 2 years and move it on, 6 years later and still struggling to work out WTF to replace it with ... very nice :-)

Furbo said: I am not seeing £90k there and I don't recall seeing a £100k 7GTS. Happy to be corrected. Paragon last month had a black one at £104k and 4WD. seems to have sold, and they never discount cars. The one at £85k is 30k miles so find a 15k miles car and it might go up at Paragon at £100+ these days. Daft market but then a BMW CSL is up at £170k ! and 987 Spyder prices after 10 years have finally cracked £50k on up to £60k+ A lot of people always said they would buy a 997 GT3 over a GTS, but a mint 997.2 CS now is what £140k and stuck with long gearing unless it has a cup final drive. So older cars seem to be doing well atm in this EV market. I guess when you only have 80 odd 2wd manual GTS vs 500 SRS these days, it's hard to find nice cars. Paragon seem to have the 997 GTS market now, as sellers know they can get the best money for them.

911_Speedster said: 987 Spyder prices after 10 years have finally cracked £50k on up to £60k+ Still flat at best in real terms. We've had, what, 30% inflation in the last five years alone? BoE says 40% since 2016.

housemouse said: 911_Speedster said: 987 Spyder prices after 10 years have finally cracked £50k on up to £60k+ Still flat at best in real terms. We've had, what, 30% inflation in the last five years alone? BoE says 40% since 2016. That’s pretty good for a mass market mainstream model though

Inlineonline said: housemouse said: 911_Speedster said: 987 Spyder prices after 10 years have finally cracked £50k on up to £60k+ Still flat at best in real terms. We've had, what, 30% inflation in the last five years alone? BoE says 40% since 2016. That s pretty good for a mass market mainstream model though yeah and during that inflation time period the value of my London flat went down. So I think having a car you enjoy driving and it being stable or even increasing a little in value is a pretty good outcome overall. It is not like these cars are investments, they are consumer goods.

Inlineonline said: That s pretty good for a mass market mainstream model though Wouldn't say the 987 Spyder is a "mass market mainstream model". It may not have a GT department engine / chassis, but the bodywork is more bespoke than some blue chip specials and by the standards of modern GT cars, was built in much smaller numbers.

some said 987spyder would be £30k, in fact it's gone up to £60k+ So not bad, Same on mint low mile Cayman R's. IF every car I owned just went up 2% PA and never down I would be happy. think of people who paid over list for any GT car in the last 5 to 10 years, some are £150k down. Even the SRS if you have to trade it out, because lets face it no ones buying private, it's a £40k loss on retail. So the overs guys are £100k+ down on GT4 RS and SRS ! People buying early 992.2 touring's for £300k in a years time will be £100k down. I don;t get who pays these daft prices to be honest, what were the early 992.1 RS cars £450k ? So any older model which has gone up is bloody good.