996 Turbo - Page 4 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Hi All, I was hoping to get into the 996tt this year but work/business and a house move all got in the way.......so maybe 2014 is going to be the year for me. I've been an admirer for a long time and have driven 996 c4 & 4's and a couple of turbos. I'm would prefer a later model 2004 and might even be able to stretch to a Turbo S manual (the one I really want), even though I have to driven one yet. So a couple of questions: 1. How does the x50 or Turbo S compare to the standard car? 2. Following on from a discussion on here and after watching a recent episode of Fifth Gear, how quick are these cars against the more modern, super saloon cars like the 2009 M3 etc....... Advice and real world experience required. Oh....nearly forgot, how can you visually tell the difference between the "S" model?? Dash/speedo "S", and carbon brakes?? IceBoy

IceBoy said: Hi All, So a couple of questions: 1. How does the x50 or Turbo S compare to the standard car? Compare how chap? Looks, driving, performance? Look similar, slightly more laggy apparently, both silly quick. IceBoy said: 2. Following on from a discussion on here and after watching a recent episode of Fifth Gear, how quick are these cars against the more modern, super saloon cars like the 2009 M3 etc....... Given the opportunity (space, licence losing ability) markedly faster. But in the real world I doubt you'd get the chance. IceBoy said: Oh....nearly forgot, how can you visually tell the difference between the "S" model?? Dash/speedo "S", and carbon brakes?? S has cc brakes as standard so yellow calipers (although there are plenty of steel brakes with yellow caliers too) and there is a turbo s badge in the gauge pod and at the bottom of the centre console.

DKL, driving and performance. Thanks in advance. IceBoy

If you can find a S or a X50 pack, well worth the extra. If you find a X50 try to get one with a sports exhaust fitted. The sport exhausts almost eliminates any lag. The X50 pack/S model also come with GT2 intercoolers, upgraded clutch and a few other mods that make the car sooo much better. I have driven both and much prefer the X50. Best of luck on your search.

Moosh said: If you can find a S or a X50 pack, well worth the extra. If you find a X50 try to get one with a sports exhaust fitted. The sport exhausts almost eliminates any lag. The X50 pack/S model also come with GT2 intercoolers, upgraded clutch and a few other mods that make the car sooo much better. I have driven both and much prefer the X50. Best of luck on your search. When you say sports exhaust is that a factory option (do you have a number code) or after market (which)?

This side of 100mph i found the f10 330d x drive just as quick - seriously.

steve singh said: This side of 100mph i found the f10 330d x drive just as quick - seriously. Really? 15s to 100 vs 9s. And they felt just as quick? Think that says more about you than the cars, tbh.

Greg66 said: steve singh said: This side of 100mph i found the f10 330d x drive just as quick - seriously. Really? 15s to 100 vs 9s. And they felt just as quick? Think that says more about you than the cars, tbh. Why do people get so personal? More like 10.6s 996 turbo based on official figures vs. 14 secs on the f30 330d x drive - wow, c3 seconds i really notice that when you put your foot down from a standing start to 100mph without any 996 turbo next to you as a reference point...not. Count 3 seconds in your head and then think about what you have typed in the context of the real world beyond your bedroom, Feels just as fast in term of sensation and on road driving within good fun, but not prison food speed. Edited by steve singh on Friday 6th December 22:13

10.6 for the tip. 9.4 for the manual. 8.9 on fastestlaps. Where are you getting your 14 from? As for the bedroom attempted crack, I think I'll do the counting from the driver's seat of a 996 turbo, no?

Greg66 said: 10.6 for the tip. 9.4 for the manual. 8.9 on fastestlaps. Where are you getting your 14 from? As for the bedroom attempted crack, I think I'll do the counting from the driver's seat of a 996 turbo, no? So, 3 seconds, or to be generous lets say 4. I've done the counting from the drivers seat of a 996 turbo, drivers seat of the e92 m3 and the drivers seat of the F30 330d x drive, so i'll stick to my bum dyno

A good remap on a 420 car gets to 500 very easily - like you need it! They are belting cars if you get to drive them. If I take mine to work I often wish I hadn't - dull in traffic and wearing away an expensive clutch! On a good A road with no traffic its heaven.

It's like comparing an F10 M5 to an E92 M3. 3-4s over a 0-100 sprint is a lifetime.

steve singh said: This side of 100mph i found the f10 330d x drive just as quick - seriously. To be fair you're comparing a 15 year old car with the very latest from BMW. The F30 wouldn't see which way a 991 Turbo went, few cars would...

steve singh said: Greg66 said: steve singh said: This side of 100mph i found the f10 330d x drive just as quick - seriously. Really? 15s to 100 vs 9s. And they felt just as quick? Think that says more about you than the cars, tbh. Why do people get so personal? More like 10.6s 996 turbo based on official figures vs. 14 secs on the f30 330d x drive - wow, c3 seconds i really notice that when you put your foot down from a standing start to 100mph without any 996 turbo next to you as a reference point...not. Count 3 seconds in your head and then think about what you have typed in the context of the real world beyond your bedroom, Feels just as fast in term of sensation and on road driving within good fun, but not prison food speed. Edited by steve singh on Friday 6th December 22:13 Admit it, you f ked up. TX.

Terminator X said: steve singh said: Greg66 said: steve singh said: This side of 100mph i found the f10 330d x drive just as quick - seriously. Really? 15s to 100 vs 9s. And they felt just as quick? Think that says more about you than the cars, tbh. Why do people get so personal? More like 10.6s 996 turbo based on official figures vs. 14 secs on the f30 330d x drive - wow, c3 seconds i really notice that when you put your foot down from a standing start to 100mph without any 996 turbo next to you as a reference point...not. Count 3 seconds in your head and then think about what you have typed in the context of the real world beyond your bedroom, Feels just as fast in term of sensation and on road driving within good fun, but not prison food speed. Edited by steve singh on Friday 6th December 22:13 Admit it, you f ked up. TX. Care to elaborate or did you accidentally delete the follow on paragraph?

g7jhp said: Moosh said: If you can find a S or a X50 pack, well worth the extra. If you find a X50 try to get one with a sports exhaust fitted. The sport exhausts almost eliminates any lag. The X50 pack/S model also come with GT2 intercoolers, upgraded clutch and a few other mods that make the car sooo much better. I have driven both and much prefer the X50. Best of luck on your search. When you say sports exhaust is that a factory option (do you have a number code) or after market (which)? Moosh?

steve singh said: This side of 100mph i found the f10 330d x drive just as quick - seriously. Not sure if serious ?!

g7jhp said: g7jhp said: Moosh said: If you can find a S or a X50 pack, well worth the extra. If you find a X50 try to get one with a sports exhaust fitted. The sport exhausts almost eliminates any lag. The X50 pack/S model also come with GT2 intercoolers, upgraded clutch and a few other mods that make the car sooo much better. I have driven both and much prefer the X50. Best of luck on your search. When you say sports exhaust is that a factory option (do you have a number code) or after market (which)? Moosh? Sorry for the late reply, have been at the 50 year Porsche meet at Teddington. After market exhaust, the standard exhaust is very tame sounding. I have Euro Pipes on mine and she sounds fantastic. There are other makes that are also good, but I only have experience of mine. On the Euro Pipe website you can listen to the sounds. Though they do sound a lot better in real life.

It is strange and very unproductive the way people seem to get very personal when it comes to how fast one car is against another, honestly does it matter? The 996 Turbo is immensely quick, best thing to do, drive the cars youre referring to yourself and make up your own mind. As has been said numerous times, the party trick of the 996 turbo is its rocket ship straight line acceleration, but that aside it's a hugely capable, nimble and very involving car round the twisties, comfortable and with good luggage space. It's far more powerful than is ever useable on public roads.

Just to echo the sentiments above, any 996tt is an outrageously fast and beautifully balanced sports car. I've just got the basic yr 2000 420hp version and it's really quite a special drive. Not as beautiful as its predecessor, but a more feelsome drive. Sure an X50/ S is even better .

steve singh said: Care to elaborate or did you accidentally delete the follow on paragraph? Not only is 3 or 4 seconds a huge difference, the shove in the back will be even greater. A 330d is a quick car but lets not get ahead of ourselves!

csmith319 said: steve singh said: Care to elaborate or did you accidentally delete the follow on paragraph? Not only is 3 or 4 seconds a huge difference, the shove in the back will be even greater. A 330d is a quick car but lets not get ahead of ourselves! Butt dyno says different - suggest the op drives both and decides himself.

Every time a 996T conversation comes up SteveSingh replies! I'm beginning to think you have some fascination with these cars! Fantastic cars and extremely quick, can't say i've had any BMW diesels hanging on but maybe I've just been lucky haha The power delivery makes a 996T feel EVEN quicker than it actually is. In much the same way my old M roadster with its high revving engine and flat torque curve felt slower than its actual pace. Wow did it sound good though! If it's the feel of power/performance you are after the 996T especially in X50 form should give you all you need, its downfall is its so well planted and capable, high speeds feel all too easy. This is what its often criticised for Edited by shantybeater on Sunday 8th December 14:48

g7jhp said: When you say sports exhaust is that a factory option (do you have a number code) or after market (which)? Porsche don't do a factory option sports exhaust for the Turbo. Got a Milltek on mine (with a remap). Good exhaust and much better sound than standard! Get a Turbo - you won't regret it

I had a traffic light grand prix against a 330tt in Birmingham, I was behind him from the lights and went past like he had the handbrake on when he moved over. Ok, ams k16 billet turbos and an EPL tune, amongst other things puts me around 700HP, but then it's always ok to race modified lesser cars against a standard Porsche 996tt so i'm just evening things up a bit. where it matters on the motorway these cars are immensely quick, I hardly ever put my foot to the floor, the acceleration is effortless above 100mph to silly speeds.

Guys, you're all forgetting what happens when you map a BMW diesel, the laws of quantum physics disappear up your bum dyno it appears. Yet to see anything trouble my 'lightly fettled X50 (with RS intercoolers which are way better thsn the X50/S items), this side of an MP4 & M600. Plenty of fun on track too as well as super fast at V Max OP, as suggested, drive a fit one, 420/S/X50 & see what you think. Then try an E 92 M3/330d/335d

I pootle around in an automatic BMW 335d which still feels very quick by the seat of my pants, even after 5 years of driving it. However every time I get in my 996 Turbo S I'm left thinking that by comparison, it's just so fast that it's almost dangerous. Yes, it's more work to drive the manual Porker than the "press accelerator and hold on" BMW, but get in the right gears and it's just hilarious. Mind you, a PDK 991 Carrera S would give the 996 a run for it's money in the real world. That's 14 years of progress for you! I would also second the recommendation about fitting a more free breathing exhaust. I get much sharper pick up and better throttle response with my 100 cell Speedtech exhaust, and that's without remapping. It also sounds much nicer :-) Pete

mattiselvis said: Just to echo the sentiments above, any 996tt is an outrageously fast and beautifully balanced sports car. I've just got the basic yr 2000 420hp version and it's really quite a special drive. Not as beautiful as its predecessor, but a more feelsome drive. Sure an X50/ S is even better . Get it remapped fella, turn it into the car it should have been. No downsides, just more, more everywhere, torque, power, speed, as fast as a phase 1 997 turbo.

shantybeater said: Every time a 996T conversation comes up SteveSingh replies! I'm beginning to think you have some fascination with these cars! Fantastic cars and extremely quick, can't say i've had any BMW diesels hanging on but maybe I've just been lucky haha The power delivery makes a 996T feel EVEN quicker than it actually is. In much the same way my old M roadster with its high revving engine and flat torque curve felt slower than its actual pace. Wow did it sound good though! If it's the feel of power/performance you are after the 996T especially in X50 form should give you all you need, its downfall is its so well planted and capable, high speeds feel all too easy. This is what its often criticised for Edited by shantybeater on Sunday 8th December 14:48 True, I think this is primarily down to the fact I cannot reconcile the experiences on this forum in regards to the 996 Turbo vs. the 2 (tiptronics) I drove on a test drive. I wanted it to be amazing and seamless power in any gear - however after the initial euphoria I ended finding that it would get bogged down in the wrong gear and I lost a tussle with a M5 on the motorway (lost tussle being I didn't manage to out accelerate him). I love the way it looks and I look at the paper stats and think wow, that much bhp and torque should be amazing. However I still cannot get it out of my head when I hear it being talked about on the forums - it just feels like I would like to try one again with a non-standard exhaust and manual box. If it was as fast as people say I'd buy one in a heart beat.

steve singh said: This side of 100mph i found the f10 330d x drive just as quick - seriously. Well Steve has driven both... you would never say this about a Cerbera though, either side of 100mph Steve

I've owned both a TTS (2005, 11k mile example sold through 911V about 2 months ago) and currently have a mapped F31 330d. I agree the power delivery is completely different in both cars. The 330d is much smoother (but so it should be given it is 8 years newer) in it's delivery and allows you to make for surprisingly quick progress, especially on pick-up from a trailing throttle. The TTS had much more lag, loads in fact by modern comparison, but holy hell was it quick. I would go as far as saying too quick for the road. Once the turbos had spooled in (from around 4-5k if I remember) you had better hang on because if you weren't you would be in the next field before you knew it. I have never driven or been in a car that accelerated as fast and it constantly took mine and every passenger's breath away. As others have said above, £ for £ I doubt there is more performance available (especially considering the tunability). The factory performance stats I think are a little light, I am sure EVO figured the car at 3.8 to 60 leptons... just look at the type of machinery today (nearly 10 years later) that buys you access to those performance figures and you have something of a bargain.

steve singh said: True, I think this is primarily down to the fact I cannot reconcile the experiences on this forum in regards to the 996 Turbo vs. the 2 (tiptronics) I drove on a test drive. I wanted it to be amazing and seamless power in any gear - however after the initial euphoria I ended finding that it would get bogged down in the wrong gear and I lost a tussle with a M5 on the motorway (lost tussle being I didn't manage to out accelerate him). I love the way it looks and I look at the paper stats and think wow, that much bhp and torque should be amazing. However I still cannot get it out of my head when I hear it being talked about on the forums - it just feels like I would like to try one again with a non-standard exhaust and manual box. If it was as fast as people say I'd buy one in a heart beat. You often venture into the Southwest forum so you can't be that far from me?. I'm happy to give you a ride in mine when its back on the road (x50 - completely standard). No doubt it needs and aftermarket exhaust because its very quiet at the moment but in terms of feel for speed i'd be suprised if it didn't push that button for you. I'm afraid I can't comment on tips at all, it was never an option for me so i've not seen not sat in one.

steve singh said: True, I think this is primarily down to the fact I cannot reconcile the experiences on this forum in regards to the 996 Turbo vs. the 2 (tiptronics) I drove on a test drive. I wanted it to be amazing and seamless power in any gear - however after the initial euphoria I ended finding that it would get bogged down in the wrong gear and I lost a tussle with a M5 on the motorway (lost tussle being I didn't manage to out accelerate him). I love the way it looks and I look at the paper stats and think wow, that much bhp and torque should be amazing. However I still cannot get it out of my head when I hear it being talked about on the forums - it just feels like I would like to try one again with a non-standard exhaust and manual box. If it was as fast as people say I'd buy one in a heart beat. So you took a Tip out on a test drive and raced and lost to an M5 in a car you were unfamiliar with? You found that you got bogged down in the wrong gear. Were you driving it in auto, or manual mode? The tip, driven properly, is as fast as people say it is and don't let anyone tell you any different! I haven't driven a manual, so can't make a fair comparison between tip and manual, (other than driving the tip in manual mode), but if the manual is faster than tip it must be a damn scary car to drive!!

dank said: The 996 Turbo is immensely quick, best thing to do, drive the cars youre referring to yourself and make up your own mind. As has been said numerous times, the party trick of the 996 turbo is its rocket ship straight line acceleration, but that aside it's a hugely capable, nimble and very involving car round the twisties, comfortable and with good luggage space. It's far more powerful than is ever useable on public roads. Was going to post pretty much this. On the subject of X50- vs non-X50, when I bought mine I was actually seeking non-X50 as I don't think the extra shove warranted the extra lag. Everyone has their own opinion on this, and each to their own. As has been said, genuine turbo S's have carbon brakes (yellow calipers) but not all will have the S badge on the centre console - cars with the carbon interior pack don't for some reason). The easiest way to tell (in most cases) a genuine S is that the turbo S badges on the rear will be centred. If the owner has just added an 'S' badge, the whole lot will be off centre. Compare this: with this

I have a standard 2002 996 Turbo manual in which I do about 5000 miles per annum. I have owned a good number of quick cars over the years (currently have a new M135i as a daily driver) and once the turbos have spooled up none of them compares to the 996 in a straight line. Test drive the different variants by all means but if it was me I would concentrate on getting the best car you can afford and worry about the power later. Happy hunting.

shantybeater said: steve singh said: True, I think this is primarily down to the fact I cannot reconcile the experiences on this forum in regards to the 996 Turbo vs. the 2 (tiptronics) I drove on a test drive. I wanted it to be amazing and seamless power in any gear - however after the initial euphoria I ended finding that it would get bogged down in the wrong gear and I lost a tussle with a M5 on the motorway (lost tussle being I didn't manage to out accelerate him). I love the way it looks and I look at the paper stats and think wow, that much bhp and torque should be amazing. However I still cannot get it out of my head when I hear it being talked about on the forums - it just feels like I would like to try one again with a non-standard exhaust and manual box. If it was as fast as people say I'd buy one in a heart beat. You often venture into the Southwest forum so you can't be that far from me?. I'm happy to give you a ride in mine when its back on the road (x50 - completely standard). No doubt it needs and aftermarket exhaust because its very quiet at the moment but in terms of feel for speed i'd be suprised if it didn't push that button for you. I'm afraid I can't comment on tips at all, it was never an option for me so i've not seen not sat in one. Thanks for the offer, but i think you've got mistaken identity as I've never been in the SW forum and don't like near to that geography unless i'm back up in the midlands to see my parents

steve singh said: Care to elaborate or did you accidentally delete the follow on paragraph? Sorry, this is the bit you clearly f ked up: "This side of 100mph i found the f10 330d x drive just as quick - seriously." TX.

OP if you can find a good S or X50 its worth the extra money. I found the turbo S rapid. Sub 4 secs to 60 easily and 100 in around 8 secs. Not sure why Porsche released such conservative figures for it. It will blow any M3 away. Depending on what your budget is you can modify them with companies like Nine Excellence to run 15 secs to 300 kph which is as quick as anything out there. Really is a special car and at some stage values for good cars will start going up as arguably the 996 could possibly turn out to Porsche's finest turbo moment. By way of comparison a 991 turbo S runs to 300 kph in 30 secs.

Hi All (OP here), I didn't think this would turn into a slanging match! Anyway, thanks for all you input and in the new year, I will try a few cars and see how I get on. This question came to mind, after having watched episode 1, season 23, of Fifth Gear. Very interesting stuff about a super-saloon (m3) vs some seriously fast stuff, an absolutely great watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQEgxy4mxy4 Regards IceBoy

Hey Monthefish.....the car in the top picture also has some vents in the rear bumper? IceBoy

With regards to manual vs tip they are in my experience very different cars, i test drove 5 tts (all standard non x50/s) before my eventual purchase to which two were tips, both good boxes but tips make it more of a gt car where the manual car requires more concentration and makes for more of an experience and im sure people will say otherwise but the manual is noticeably faster and a real supercar (exhaust being only let down). Why people keep comparing to a BMW i dont know,(envy,lust most likely) having driven and owned BMW's (and worked for a main dealer) for the past 12 years,4 m cars in that time among others, there is nothing even in BMW's line up today that would beat a GOOD example of a 996tt, stats alone can show you that and like has been said 996tt are 12 years old. I bought a Porsche 996tt as id always dreamt of owning a Porsche never did i dream of owning a BMW. As a brand they have been massively watered down over the years much to my annoyance and i no longer class owning a BMW as being special or exclusive lets be honest every f#@@#r drives one that cannot be said for Porsche. BMW still make good cars as for m3s m5s lets not forget they are and always will be suped up 3s and 5s no matter how much you might not want to believe it (been there with both). A Porsche 996 tt is a supercar not just in speed but also in looks,drive, and feel of ownership experience. Am loving mine and hope to never sell..... although a gt2 would be nice.

IceBoy said: Hey Monthefish.....the car in the top picture also has some vents in the rear bumper? IceBoy Camera angle, they all have them - just line them up with the rear lights and you'll see they are out of view on the bottom pic...

stubbsy996 said: g7jhp said: When you say sports exhaust is that a factory option (do you have a number code) or after market (which)? Porsche don't do a factory option sports exhaust for the Turbo. Got a Milltek on mine (with a remap). Good exhaust and much better sound than standard! Get a Turbo - you won't regret it Got one, didn’t regret it!

iceman385 said: With regards to manual vs tip they are in my experience very different cars, i test drove 5 tts (all standard non x50/s) before my eventual purchase to which two were tips, both good boxes but tips make it more of a gt car where the manual car requires more concentration and makes for more of an experience and im sure people will say otherwise but the manual is noticeably faster and a real supercar (exhaust being only let down). Why people keep comparing to a BMW i dont know ,(envy,lust most likely) having driven and owned BMW's (and worked for a main dealer) for the past 12 years,4 m cars in that time among others, there is nothing even in BMW's line up today that would beat a GOOD example of a 996tt, stats alone can show you that and like has been said 996tt are 12 years old. I bought a Porsche 996tt as id always dreamt of owning a Porsche never did i dream of owning a BMW. As a brand they have been massively watered down over the years much to my annoyance and i no longer class owning a BMW as being special or exclusive lets be honest every f#@@#r drives one that cannot be said for Porsche. BMW still make good cars as for m3s m5s lets not forget they are and always will be suped up 3s and 5s no matter how much you might not want to believe it (been there with both). A Porsche 996 tt is a supercar not just in speed but also in looks,drive, and feel of ownership experience. Am loving mine and hope to never sell..... although a gt2 would be nice. I've got an absolutely crazy reason for this....errr the OP asked ?

IceBoy said: Hey Monthefish.....the car in the top picture also has some vents in the rear bumper? IceBoy That's on all 996T's ala 959 Sorry Steve, not sure how that happened!

Just to clarify a point made to me by Ken at 9E, it is not infrequent that these cars can be off colour with coil packs, waste gates sticking, boost leaks etc. it's quite possible to be disappointed by a car, but really, it MUST be sick if it, but not necessarily indicating faults. Have a chat to 9E or other well respected Porsche specialists, to get the full SP of what the common issues & remedies are. WRT the TIP, 9E ran one as their Demo as its possible to go quicker via a tune to motor & gearbox.

monthefish said: Was going to post pretty much this. On the subject of X50- vs non-X50, when I bought mine I was actually seeking non-X50 as I don't think the extra shove warranted the extra lag. Everyone has their own opinion on this, and each to their own. As has been said, genuine turbo S's have carbon brakes (yellow calipers) but not all will have the S badge on the centre console - cars with the carbon interior pack don't for some reason). The easiest way to tell (in most cases) a genuine S is that the turbo S badges on the rear will be centred. If the owner has just added an 'S' badge, the whole lot will be off centre. Compare this: with this Fair enough if you're going by badge, but the first car has standard exhaust tips, so not an x50 which all the S models were.

e8_pack said: Fair enough if you're going by badge, I wasn't, in any way, suggesting that the badge should be used as a definitive answer, however it is the best quick look/see. Most people are happy to add an S badge but very few would actually go to the trouble of centring it all by removing and replacing the turbo badge. e8_pack said: ...but the first car has standard exhaust tips, so not an x50 which all the S models were. The exhaust tips don't tell you it's an S. Mine (non S, non X50) had those exhaust tips. ETA. and here is an S without those exhaust tips. link Edited by monthefish on Tuesday 10th December 13:53

Steve Singh.....you obviously have never driven a 996 turbo.....330d as quick up to 100 lmao! Saying that, who keeps their turbo standard......its rude not to tweak the map at the very least . GTR and R8 V10 territory.

Mozza81 said: Steve Singh.....you obviously have never driven a 996 turbo.....330d as quick up to 100 lmao! Saying that, who keeps their turbo standard......its rude not to tweak the map at the very least . GTR and R8 V10 territory. 0-60 proves little, if anything. Had an Imprezza turbo, 5.4 to 60, replaced it with an E39 M5, 5.1 to 60 but after that the 5 would simply disappear into the distance. Super cars only come into their own at big numbers. A 330d for goodness sake. I drive a 400bhp saloon and wouldn't even try against a 996tt.

ArmaghMan said: Mozza81 said: Steve Singh.....you obviously have never driven a 996 turbo.....330d as quick up to 100 lmao! Saying that, who keeps their turbo standard......its rude not to tweak the map at the very least . GTR and R8 V10 territory. 0-60 proves little, if anything. Had an Imprezza turbo, 5.4 to 60, replaced it with an E39 M5, 5.1 to 60 but after that the 5 would simply disappear into the distance. Super cars only come into their own at big numbers. A 330d for goodness sake. I drive a 400bhp saloon and wouldn't even try against a 996tt. Some people on this forum need a reality check - both posters above are prime candidates. Please take the time to read my posts before commenting and then think about that in the context of your posts, This is a 997 turbo vs. e92 m3 - the 997 is at vs. bmw mt...you would call this 'destroy', 'wouldn't see which way it went', 'light years ahead', 'warp speed', 'mind blowing' - whereas we're talking prison food speed and yet for the best part you could measure the difference in car lengths...in the real world without a reference point next to you both cars would feel just as fast (note the word feel). http://youtu.be/L3CqJIQiq5o

Clearly your annual check up beckons if you're still insisting that a diesel "feels" as fast as a 911 turbo! TX.

steve singh said: ArmaghMan said: Mozza81 said: Steve Singh.....you obviously have never driven a 996 turbo.....330d as quick up to 100 lmao! Saying that, who keeps their turbo standard......its rude not to tweak the map at the very least . GTR and R8 V10 territory. 0-60 proves little, if anything. Had an Imprezza turbo, 5.4 to 60, replaced it with an E39 M5, 5.1 to 60 but after that the 5 would simply disappear into the distance. Super cars only come into their own at big numbers. A 330d for goodness sake. I drive a 400bhp saloon and wouldn't even try against a 996tt. Some people on this forum need a reality check - both posters above are prime candidates. Please take the time to read my posts before commenting and then think about that in the context of your posts, This is a 997 turbo vs. e92 m3 - the 997 is at vs. bmw mt...you would call this 'destroy', 'wouldn't see which way it went', 'light years ahead', 'warp speed', 'mind blowing' - whereas we're talking prison food speed and yet for the best part you could measure the difference in car lengths...in the real world without a reference point next to you both cars would feel just as fast (note the word feel). http://youtu.be/L3CqJIQiq5o Thats a really poor vid example. The 7t disappears? You've got a great car and it should not bother you that its not nearly as quick as Weissach's quickest straight line road cars. Massive price difference and if you spend a few pennies on these Mezger engine cars they can run to 300kph in 15 secs. Thats quicker than a few of the newest hyper cars without too much of an outlay. The turbo engine is derived from the GT1 Le Mans winning race car. Good for up to 1500 bhp with mods. Hoe the feck can you keep on comparing diesel cars and M3s to turbos? just silly matey

IMI A said: steve singh said: ArmaghMan said: Mozza81 said: Steve Singh.....you obviously have never driven a 996 turbo.....330d as quick up to 100 lmao! Saying that, who keeps their turbo standard......its rude not to tweak the map at the very least . GTR and R8 V10 territory. 0-60 proves little, if anything. Had an Imprezza turbo, 5.4 to 60, replaced it with an E39 M5, 5.1 to 60 but after that the 5 would simply disappear into the distance. Super cars only come into their own at big numbers. A 330d for goodness sake. I drive a 400bhp saloon and wouldn't even try against a 996tt. Some people on this forum need a reality check - both posters above are prime candidates. Please take the time to read my posts before commenting and then think about that in the context of your posts, This is a 997 turbo vs. e92 m3 - the 997 is at vs. bmw mt...you would call this 'destroy', 'wouldn't see which way it went', 'light years ahead', 'warp speed', 'mind blowing' - whereas we're talking prison food speed and yet for the best part you could measure the difference in car lengths...in the real world without a reference point next to you both cars would feel just as fast (note the word feel). http://youtu.be/L3CqJIQiq5o Thats a really poor vid example. The 7t disappears? You've got a great car and it should not bother you that its not nearly as quick as Weissach's quickest straight line road cars. Massive price difference and if you spend a few pennies on these Mezger engine cars they can run to 300kph in 15 secs. Thats quicker than a few of the newest hyper cars without too much of an outlay. The turbo engine is derived from the GT1 Le Mans winning race car. Good for up to 1500 bhp with mods. Hoe the feck can you keep on comparing diesel cars and M3s to turbos? just silly matey It's not comparing per se, it's drawing out the point that differences talked about on the internet are actually far less magnified in the real world. It's the same on something like avforums where someone slates a tv but talks about an amazing 'different' model and when you see them side-by-side you are expecting a big difference but it is as subtle as hell. I would love to own a 997 turbo one day and have my eye on them at the moment, but i think all forums should carry the 'differences on your screen may appear far less in real life' warnings across them!!!!! Often you can read something on a forum and really get your hopes up and then when you come to the test drive it is below expectations as a consequence. I love all cars, but i'm never biased. Honestly after i drove the f30 330d xdrive i thought to myself this doesn't feel like a slow car vs. the e92 m3 - in fact i was making some serious progress. The only reason the m3 made more sense to me was the specialness, rwd and looks - but reality is i don't think it would blow away the 330d in terms of straight line performance in the real world (the same for the tt). The internet wouldn't have you believe that!

steve singh said: IMI A said: steve singh said: ArmaghMan said: Mozza81 said: Steve Singh.....you obviously have never driven a 996 turbo.....330d as quick up to 100 lmao! Saying that, who keeps their turbo standard......its rude not to tweak the map at the very least . GTR and R8 V10 territory. 0-60 proves little, if anything. Had an Imprezza turbo, 5.4 to 60, replaced it with an E39 M5, 5.1 to 60 but after that the 5 would simply disappear into the distance. Super cars only come into their own at big numbers. A 330d for goodness sake. I drive a 400bhp saloon and wouldn't even try against a 996tt. Some people on this forum need a reality check - both posters above are prime candidates. Please take the time to read my posts before commenting and then think about that in the context of your posts, This is a 997 turbo vs. e92 m3 - the 997 is at vs. bmw mt...you would call this 'destroy', 'wouldn't see which way it went', 'light years ahead', 'warp speed', 'mind blowing' - whereas we're talking prison food speed and yet for the best part you could measure the difference in car lengths...in the real world without a reference point next to you both cars would feel just as fast (note the word feel). http://youtu.be/L3CqJIQiq5o Thats a really poor vid example. The 7t disappears? You've got a great car and it should not bother you that its not nearly as quick as Weissach's quickest straight line road cars. Massive price difference and if you spend a few pennies on these Mezger engine cars they can run to 300kph in 15 secs. Thats quicker than a few of the newest hyper cars without too much of an outlay. The turbo engine is derived from the GT1 Le Mans winning race car. Good for up to 1500 bhp with mods. Hoe the feck can you keep on comparing diesel cars and M3s to turbos? just silly matey It's not comparing per se, it's drawing out the point that differences talked about on the internet are actually far less magnified in the real world. It's the same on something like avforums where someone slates a tv but talks about an amazing 'different' model and when you see them side-by-side you are expecting a big difference but it is as subtle as hell. I would love to own a 997 turbo one day and have my eye on them at the moment, but i think all forums should carry the 'differences on your screen may appear far less in real life' warnings across them!!!!! Often you can read something on a forum and really get your hopes up and then when you come to the test drive it is below expectations as a consequence. I love all cars, but i'm never biased. Honestly after i drove the f30 330d xdrive i thought to myself this doesn't feel like a slow car vs. the e92 m3 - in fact i was making some serious progress. The only reason the m3 made more sense to me was the specialness, rwd and looks - but reality is i don't think it would blow away the 330d in terms of straight line performance in the real world (the same for the tt). The internet wouldn't have you believe that! You're right re the M3/330D comparison as the M engines are designed to deliver power in peaky way whilst the diesel is torquey and good in gear acceleration i.e. power is far more easily accessible. But whether 996 or 997 turbo its night and day difference to 330d and m3 e92. You have driven poor examples of 996 - I have spent time in a 996 turbo S and its every bit as quick as a 997 t

Test drives won't reveal the full performance of the car. Get on the motorway, put your toe down and watch the numbers. No 330d will be in the same league.

steve singh said: Some people on this forum need a reality check - both posters above are prime candidates. Please take the time to read my posts before commenting and then think about that in the context of your posts, This is a 997 turbo vs. e92 m3 - the 997 is at vs. bmw mt...you would call this 'destroy', 'wouldn't see which way it went', 'light years ahead', 'warp speed', 'mind blowing' - whereas we're talking prison food speed and yet for the best part you could measure the difference in car lengths...in the real world without a reference point next to you both cars would feel just as fast (note the word feel). http://youtu.be/L3CqJIQiq5o Sorry, but what IS the point of your posts? Are you saying that the 997.1 turbo doesn't "feel" like it trounces the e92 even though it does, from a roll and, even more amusingly so, from a standstill? Perhaps you need to choose a different car to compare the turbo with. I'm a massive fan of M-cars, but seriously, come on!

I can see Steve's point on this (and I've got a 996T). Its a tremendously fast car, faster than a 330d yes, but in that video (for instance) how fast were they going before it disappeared into the distance? A whole heap faster than you could go on a public road I imagine. Realistically on a normal British road, without losing your licence in 10 mins I don't imagine the 330d would be that far behind. Behind sure but not that much.

This is getting silly. A 996 turbo would annihilate a 330d on any road, anywhere. Apologies to the chap above, but if yours doesn't feel like it could, I suspect yours in broken.

steve singh said: Some people on this forum need a reality check - both posters above are prime candidates. Please take the time to read my posts before commenting and then think about that in the context of your posts, This is a 997 turbo vs. e92 m3 - the 997 is at vs. bmw mt...you would call this 'destroy', 'wouldn't see which way it went', 'light years ahead', 'warp speed', 'mind blowing' - whereas we're talking prison food speed and yet for the best part you could measure the difference in car lengths...in the real world without a reference point next to you both cars would feel just as fast (note the word feel). http://youtu.be/L3CqJIQiq5o 'Feel' is exactly the difference. Having been in a 997.1 turbo on road and track, the difference in shove between it and an e90 m3 or e60 m5 is night and day - not worth comparing. A 330d or 335d have massive shove low down the rev range as do most diesels, can be mis-leading though. We get you don't find 911 turbos impressive (996 in particular), but think most people with direct experience disagree!

steve singh said: Some people on this forum need a reality check - both posters above are prime candidates. Please take the time to read my posts before commenting and then think about that in the context of your posts, This is a 997 turbo vs. e92 m3 - the 997 is at vs. bmw mt...you would call this 'destroy', 'wouldn't see which way it went', 'light years ahead', 'warp speed', 'mind blowing' - whereas we're talking prison food speed and yet for the best part you could measure the difference in car lengths...in the real world without a reference point next to you both cars would feel just as fast (note the word feel). http://youtu.be/L3CqJIQiq5o !? Confused... the 997tt comprehensivley whopped the E92... the destroyed the M3, which would in turn destroy a 330d. There is simply no comparison between a 911 Turbo and a diesel 3 series

IceBoy said: Hi All, I was hoping to get into the 996tt this year but work/business and a house move all got in the way.......so maybe 2014 is going to be the year for me. I've been an admirer for a long time and have driven 996 c4 & 4's and a couple of turbos. I'm would prefer a later model 2004 and might even be able to stretch to a Turbo S manual (the one I really want), even though I have to driven one yet. So a couple of questions: 1. How does the x50 or Turbo S compare to the standard car? 2. Following on from a discussion on here and after watching a recent episode of Fifth Gear, how quick are these cars against the more modern, super saloon cars like the 2009 M3 etc....... Advice and real world experience required. Oh....nearly forgot, how can you visually tell the difference between the "S" model?? Dash/speedo "S", and carbon brakes?? IceBoy IceBoy, some thoughts from me 1. Personally would recommend going for a good example manual turbo as a base, and then in time tailor to your liking as others have said there is plenty of scope. Depends on how far your budget can stretch but I'd rather go for a good example turbo with money spent in the right places rather than an average example S. 2. Not a fair comparison really. The power delivery is very different, as is the handling and feel through the steering etc. I have always found sports saloons more subdued than you might think especially on uk roads (thinking about my experience in M3/S4/XFR), sure they look great fun going sideways on top gear but that's not real world driving. And as for F30/31 330d v 996/997 turbo debate, as good as the 330d is...the turbo is in a different league as it would be to an M3. To me the turbo is also nicer to look at 'v' a modern sports saloon and for me feels special no matter what speed you are doing. Currently own a 997 turbo and f31 330d msport so you could say I should be unbiased and have real world experience

Thanks All, Some really good advice and comparisons. I used to have a E46 M3 which I loved.....although not a direct competitor, when I drove a 2002 996tt, my head nearly exploded! I just couldn't believe, how fast and blurry things got. The search will continue in the new year, when I'm sure, I will have many more questions. IceBoy

IceBoy said: Thanks All, Some really good advice and comparisons. I used to have a E46 M3 which I loved.....although not a direct competitor, when I drove a 2002 996tt, my head nearly exploded! I just couldn't believe, how fast and blurry things got. The search will continue in the new year, when I'm sure, I will have many more questions. IceBoy I swear I must have driven 2 bad ones - i'm going to refrain from my opinions now until i try another one in the new year. Was the one you drove standard?

IceBoy said: Thanks All, Some really good advice and comparisons. I used to have a E46 M3 which I loved.....although not a direct competitor, when I drove a 2002 996tt, my head nearly exploded! I just couldn't believe, how fast and blurry things got. The search will continue in the new year, when I'm sure, I will have many more questions. IceBoy Felt exactly the same the first time I drove mine (after getting out of an e46 M3 engined z3!), I remember actually clasping the steering wheel with both hands and almost going into the back of a car I tried to overtake! My bro who also owns an M roadster drove my 996T for the first time on his back roads he drives everyday, after booting it from a junction he turned to me and said 'what was I doing back there 50? felt quick!) I replied 'the rear spoiler came up well before you let off' haha Edited by shantybeater on Saturday 21st December 10:31

Hi Steve, My E46 M3 was in tip top condition and the 996tt I drove was a totally standard manual car. I nearly s**t myself. Have a go in one in the new year and the quote "night & day" is not significant enough! Mrs Ice, keeps asking why I keep looking at fancy car on the net!! Haven't told her the good news yet LOL!! steve singh said: I swear I must have driven 2 bad ones - i'm going to refrain from my opinions now until i try another one in the new year. Was the one you drove standard?

Have to say. A standard 996 turbo is a quick car no doubt, but it's fairly heavy & very refined so does not "feel" that fast... Coming from 400bhp rear wheel drive Cosworths (400bhp/1200kgs) the difference is that the 911 will do it all day every day for 200,000 miles without fuss. Evos, Subarus, Cosworths etc can all be tuned to live with a standard 911 turbo fairly easily, but tune the 911 & the tables are turned. The 996 with a remap is the car it always should have been, as the 997 is basically that but with VNT turbos as well. Can't wait to get into a 996 turbo next year, I'm slightly obsessed

The 996 turbo is at its best with a remap. I have just upped mine just this week from 520bhp to 690bhp. I am so addicted to this car, off out now for a drive

Moosh said: The 996 turbo is at its best with a remap. I have just upped mine just this week from 520bhp to 690bhp. I am so addicted to this car, off out now for a drive Moosh, more details please (if you don't mind sharing) as that is a bit more than a remap Sounds v interesting.

XGT said: Moosh said: The 996 turbo is at its best with a remap. I have just upped mine just this week from 520bhp to 690bhp. I am so addicted to this car, off out now for a drive Moosh, more details please (if you don't mind sharing) as that is a bit more than a remap Sounds v interesting. Hi XGT Previously upgraded, Euro pipes stage1 100 cell Cats, 5 Bar fuel pressure regulator, GT2 special edition 6 pot front calipers, and a remap. This got me up to around the 520bhp. Current upgrade, K24 Hybrid Turbos, 997 Turbo S Intercoolers, ECU Re-Map. 1 Bar WG springs,Existing Headers ported and polished internally, New plugs. I think thats the lot but am waiting for the report to comeback to me with all the details of the work that was done.

Moosh said: Hi XGT Previously upgraded, Euro pipes stage1 100 cell Cats, 5 Bar fuel pressure regulator, GT2 special edition 6 pot front calipers, and a remap. This got me up to around the 520bhp. Current upgrade, K24 Hybrid Turbos, 997 Turbo S Intercoolers, ECU Re-Map. 1 Bar WG springs,Existing Headers ported and polished internally, New plugs. I think thats the lot but am waiting for the report to comeback to me with all the details of the work that was done. Cheers Moosh, that's some upgrade. Enjoy!!

Moosh - for 690 you'll need bigger injectors at least. There's only so much fuel the standard ones can flow, and asking them to flow 50% more fuel just isn't going to happen. You'll probably also need to think about the fuel pumps. I've been down the 5 bar standard injectors route, when the ECU is asking for 125% duty cycle you know it's time to drop the engine and put some big injectors in, worth doing a few more bits whilst the engine is out.

I used to own a 535d (mapped of course) and now own a 997 turbo The 535d had a similar feeling of acceleration from low speeds due to the immense torque, and whilst in that short sweet spot, it did have pulling power like the turbo. But the difference is that the BMW is just in the sweet spot of the rev range. The turbo would just keep going and going - and this happened well under 100mph. I would be shocked if I felt the acceleration of a 330d was anywhere near that of the turbo anywhere past 50mph. Not to mention that the turbo has a launch like nothing else I have been in - rear tyres wider than the moon with a lump of metal weighing them down just for good measure - then add in the rather good 4wd system. Even the 4wd BMW wouldn't have anywhere near the traction that a turbo has. But if Steve Singh was talking about driving around a typical town/city day to day, weaving in and out of traffic, then I agree that, whilst not having the opportunity to open up a turbo past 40-50mph, maybe a 330d would feel just as quick.

My input into this, some of my car ownership from oldest to newest (not bragging but helps explain my post,not trying to make this into a "look at what I have" post) R34 GTR (420bhp) - 911 Turbo (996) - BMW E60 M5 - BMW E46 M3 - BMW E93 M3 911 Turbo faster than the R34 GTR, more lower down torque than the GTR and it would pull like crazy, up to 100 mph IMO it's very hard to split the M5 and the 911 apart, not taking paper figures as I don't know what they are but how it feels from the driver's seat. M5 had alot more going on with the crazy hard gearshifts which I loved so the sense of speed was great. Once into autobahn speeds (over 140mph),the M5 IMO felt safer,quicker and more comfortable. I was able to have a general conversation at 165mph in the M5 while this simply wouldn't happen in the 911 IMO. Compared to the E93 M3 (convertible) which is about 180kg heavier than an E92 M3, the 911 would trounce it no matter what way you look at it, E92 will be quicker due to less weight but 911 still quicker I think judging from what I can remember from along time back. E46 M3 is more fun to drive than a 911, maybe not faster but you'll have more fun. Compared to a 330D or anything else, well let's be honest a normal 3 series or 5 series can do what an M5 or M3 do about 85% of the time, to get into the area's where the M car's are better involve license loosing areas, I don't think the E93 come's alive till past 6,000 rpm which is already above the speed limit in most cases The 911 Turbo was stock, the interior layout IMO is poor and could be better, car sounds great though. Friend owns a DMS tuned version which was insanly quick. My M5 had some aftermarket mods (ram intake/filters/exhaust/remove speed limit) so maybe not a fair comparision. If I was to do it all over again knowing what I know, I'd go for a E60 M5 again, just didn't get on with the 911 for what I needed it for, it wasn't suitable for my uses. Great car and as said a DMS or other company modified example is seriosuly quick, hard to imagine without going out in one so do that if you can and get one if budget allows! Please excuse any spelling/grammer etc coming to the end of a 12 hour night shift (damn global IT networks for international bank!) so I'm fairly tired. Thanks for reading the long post hope it benefits in some way. Last piece to add, drive a few cars, buying private isn't an issue IMO if price reflects this and get rad covers for the front bumper if you buy an example without them!

bodgerben said: Moosh - for 690 you'll need bigger injectors at least. There's only so much fuel the standard ones can flow, and asking them to flow 50% more fuel just isn't going to happen. You'll probably also need to think about the fuel pumps. I've been down the 5 bar standard injectors route, when the ECU is asking for 125% duty cycle you know it's time to drop the engine and put some big injectors in, worth doing a few more bits whilst the engine is out. Hi Bodgerben what boost is your car reaching?