Maintenance Costs: 996 Carrera vs Saab 9-3 Viggen (or other cars in general)

One of my biggest concerns with picking up a 996 is the cost of maintenance. Now I'm no stranger to high maintenance costs, as an owner of a Saab 9-3 Viggen... but I'm still afraid that the Porsche is going to surprise me with costs that I'm not prepared for. The car I'm looking at has 185k, which is a lot. I'm probably going to do a clutch, flywheel, IMSB, and RMS all at once when I pick it up, to the tune of about $3700. The goal being to drive it for 2-5 years with basic maintenance. My question is, will the basic maintenance kill me? How do 996 maintenance costs stack up against say, Saab, BMW, or Subaru for those of you who have owned both, or any other makes.

Welcome! ​​​​Parts are expensive and the is a Porsche tax applied to everything. I'm saying that you can shop around and if you're handy you can DIY a lot of jobs. Pleanty of info and people on here with a lot of knowledge about these cars. Unfortunately I can't specifically speak to maintenance costs of one car vs another but im sure others can. Then again every car is unique with its maintenance to some degree.

Basic maintenance cost when you do the work yourself is comparable to any high performance European car (comparable cars I owned E39 540i, Jaguar XJR, e92 330i); compared to Honda/Toyota product it is about 2x-3x the price. Now, when it comes to big things going bad is where things start deviating massively for Porsche from average cars. Your Saab's 2.0 motor blows, you can get one for under $2k, there are plenty of sub $1k turbo saab motors for sale on Ebay. When your Porsche motor goes, it is $10k minimum. Same math applies to almost all of the other major parts; look up the prices for 996 headlights. Do not let the low price of 996 fool you. It is still an almost $100k German supercar, AGING supercar with prices of parts corresponding to $100k supercar My litmus test for should you/should you not buy a 996 is this: Can you comfortably drop $15k on the critical repair without compromising your finances or borrowing money? Yes- proceed to buy the car. No- do not buy the car. Critical failures happen and it CAN happen to you; condom rule applies- better have one and not need it, then not have one and need it.

Many of the parts are available from Original Equipment Manufactures (OEM) for significantly less $$. IE a secondary air injection pump (SAI) is ~$900 from Porsche. When you pull it out of the Porsche labeled box it is a Bosch unit. The same unit without the Porsche labeled box is ~$200.

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This is sound advice in my experience. If you are concerned about costs ,there are better choices. If you are doing the work yourself ,access is a frustrating problem because simple replacements become lengthy and complicated affairs. If your Indie is doing it, it takes him a long time also ,so $$$$. The XJR you mentioned is very familiar to me. The Porsche is much less robust,more difficult and expensive to work on in my experience.

There are no cheap 911s. You either pay up front or you pay later. I would say basic maintenance, if you perform the work yourself, is quite manageable. But still, everything does cost more. Oil change DIY is going to cost rock bottom $80. I use DT40 so my minimum cost is 110ish. Once you need a few things beyond the basics that you either can't do or prefer not to do (water pump, AOS, suspension, radiator flush) that's when you quickly see bills from the dealer in the thousands of dollars. No matter what 996 you decide to purchase do you have $5,000 in cash ready to burn without any regrets whatsoever? If the answer is no, do not purchase a 996 or any 911 really.

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+996 on a 5k buffer, if you buy a cheap 996 be prepared to potentially spend a few k per year on either repairs or preventative maintenance. First 2.5 years of ownership I had the dealership do a fair chunck of work required. Few years on I think twice about sending my car to the dealership for work apart from annual services because I want the book stamped.

Good advice here. A car with that many miles is bound to have all kinds of things on the verge of wearing out, even on a well maintained car. These are wonderful cars, but tread carefully.

I had a Viggen and I spent a lot to keep in in perfect shape. My other car at the time was a 964. The built quality of a 996 is better than the SAAB but as others have stated, repairs and maintenance costs can be high. To me it's about the driving experience and I wanted to daily my 911. I sold the Viggen and the 964 and purchased a C4S that was lovingly cared for and have not looked back. My advise: find a car that has been well looked after - they are out there. It will be frustrating to have major repair bills right up front. A car with that high mileage can leave you stranded unless all mechanicals have been gone through by someone knowledgeable. Has the engine been rebuilt because if it hasn't, it's probably due?

"The XJR you mentioned is very familiar to me. The Porsche is much less robust,more difficult and expensive to work on in my experience." A little OT, but I find this hard to believe - or at the very least, contrary to everything I've ever heard about them??? I've never owned a Jaguar but my understanding is that they break a lot...

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Your math (or knowledge) is terribly wrong. A carrera had a base MSRP of $65,600. Pretty far off from $100k since even a 2017 base carrera doesn't start at $100k. As for supercar, lolololol, yeah right

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Mine was 89k in 03. Last time I looked (2 weeks ago) at 911s at the dealer I didn't see any below 100k on the showroom floor. That base price may be used in advertisements but I suspect it's very, very lacking in features (maybe it doesn't include wheels and tires)? Seriously though - can anyone point me to a brand new 911 for sale for 65? I'd imagine that would canabalize the Boxster sales - which seemed to run in the 70-90k range when I was looking at window stickers. On the topic of super car - several industry publications referred to the 996 as a super car (including I believe the original top gear review). Super car isn't really strictly defined anywhere and maybe by late 90s standards it made sense. In today's numbers it's not quite accurate (IMHO). At the very least the 996 turbo was a super car of the day.

With regard to your question about costs. There are cheaper ways to do anything, some aren't always right. I came from a BMW, a car make with the perception of high maintenance. The BMW really wasn't that expensive to own and maintain. Some parts cost slightly more but not crazy amounts. The Porsche is more expensive. Quite a lot. A few examples: 10qt of synthetic oil per change (every 5k miles if you follow best practices recommended on the forums) I ran over a nail - ruined rear tire. Had to replace both - $800 Front brake job parts only DIY (didn't replace rotors) $400 ... had issues with dampers frozen into pistons + $400 for new pistons and fluid to bleed system New idler pulley? $110 Engine mounts (notorious for failing) $170 each So the moral of the story - expect to pay to play. I've owned the car less than a year, doing all the work myself and have already spent just about as much on maintenance as I did in 5 years of owning my BMW. That doesn't include the 5-7k I've spent on preventative stuff (IMS solution, clutch, flywheel, etc). Cheers Charlie

costs are ridiculous and things are always breaking. and I restored a E30 BMW! lol it's easily the most expensive vehicle to maintain in my fleet. doesn't help it is the least reliable also. Certainly glad I can do the labor myself.

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This is also true. Injectors were over $300 each from the dealer. i got all 6 for $300, Bosch units. Sachs Clutch kit with porsche on the box, $2600 from the dealer. Same kit with Sachs written on the box instead - $1000

Suncoast has genuine clutch / pressure plate / release bearing kit on sale right now for $545. I'm pretty sure I paid around $700 when I did it.

There is some good advice in this thread. If you're buying a 996, even the newest is 12 years old by now. Things break, things wear out, etc. I sold my 996 initially because the maintenance costs were increasing each year. I am the type of person who wants everything to openate as the manufacturer intended, so I did all the recommended maintenance. My car had about 140K miles on the odometer when I sold it. I've also owned two Saabs (a 2003 9-5 Linear sport wagon and a 2004 9-5 Aero 6MT). The Aero was great; it required virtually no repairs during the time that I owned it. The Linear was a nightmare. It had electrical problems, and many more. Part of your experience with a used 996 will be picking the right car.

Tires seem to be $1000 - $1800 depending on quality and the rears don't last very long due to the weight & demands of being a r/r sports car. Brake pads are a few hundred but easy to DIY. Motor mounts age & need replacing around every 10 years it seems ($200ish & easy DIY). Oil I use is a little over $100 per change + a $5 filter, again an easy DIY. I have an OBII scanner to monitor the sensors & read codes. It's helped me reduce the need for indy labor by diagnosing and fixing some things on my own. I bought a 71k mile car in good shape & then spent a good $5-8k on preventative & regular maintenance in the following year, which covered 11k miles. My strategy was/is to buy quality up front and be aggressive on maintenance to hopefully reduce the risk of a major mechanical issue. We'll find out in the coming years if my approach was worthwhile or foolish, but in the meantime, the 996 is a ton of fun to drive. I grew up driving manual Saabs and the 996 reminds me of that connected, analog drive-feel every day. Only the 996 is lower to the ground & much faster with a more sleek design. I'm hopelessly addicted the car that started the madness even looks like the 996 -->

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You have a C4s, probably with a few options. Yes, options on a base carrera are minimal, but such is life. As for your post about $65k, that was the price in 2000, not the price now, I figured that was clear. A ferrari F50 is a supercar in the late 90s, not a carrera. never was, never will be.

^^ secret upside to 996 ownership: arguing with strangers on the internet about academic interpretations of words that don't have much bearing on the experience. examples - Cold air intake - Supercar

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Viggen is a 2.3. Is that a used motor from a wreck, a rebuilt factory spec motor, or a performance motor? I suspect it's a factory spec rebuild, in which case it's only about $3k more than a Viggen motor... and if I do end up rebuilding my Viggen's motor, it won't be to factory specs. I priced out my plans to rebuild the car if the engine goes to about $25k. Huh? This is contrary to every bit of advice I've ever heard. These costs just don't scare me. Oil change on my Viggen is $80 and I do them every $3k (Synth Blend). Whether or not I have $5k to burn comfortably is entirely dependent on the sale price of the car, but I don't intend to go for it unless I do. 10qt? Does the tranny get changed with the engine? This seems quite high for the size of the engine. $800 for rear tires? This I don't understand, Conti DWs run $850 installed on all 4 corners from my tire shop of choice. I've heard tell of some really weird Porsche tire requirements, is this what I'm missing? Brakes sound expensive, but then again in the Viggen world they're run as the upgrade option and they're just as expensive on a different car. Better brakes means a bit more cost. Same question about the tire costs. These are up there with Viper tires, yet I'm seeing quotes for $850 installed for the 18s on the car I'm considering. I'm plenty capable with a wrench, but I just moved away from my garage and tools. I have 3-4 OBDII readers, for example... but I'll probably use a local shop to do most of the work. Thanks all for the input!

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Yeah it takes that much oil. I put about 9.5 in during my oil change last week. I believe its because its horizontally opposed vs. a V configuration - but someone else may be able to clarify. Don't get me started on transmission fluid... I believe it is $40 / quart and I used 6 quarts between the transaxle and the front differential - its basically a one time change if you ever do it though. One thing to clarify is that my rear tires are wider because its a C4S. They're 295 + the previous owner added 19" wheels from a 997. It came with Pilot Super Sport from the previous owner and from what I've read they're good, so I stuck with them. After mount/balance it was just shy of $800 for both. $850 for all 4 seems low, even on smaller wheels - I want to say I was in the $1100 range on my last car for all 4 Eagle F1s on 18"s. I guess it depends on the tire though. Apply the 'better brakes means a bit more cost' philosophy to every component of the car. I'm not trying to steer you away by any means. I love my 911 so far - but it definitely isn't a cheap car to own.

996>viggen, with that being said, why cry when you can saab. What do you think would be more expensive to own, a yugo or an ice cream truck? I think I can offset some of my costs by selling some Chinese knock off good humor bars out of the back to the ice cream truck. I've changed my own oil before so I'm not worried about that

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^^Now that's funny. And I owned 5 Saabs. No joke.

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I've found my 996 to be pretty comparable to other German cars in terms of maintenance. Before this car I've owned about 15 Audis and a couple BMWs. Consumable parts like brakes and tires for the Porsche are virtually identical to something like an Audi, because you can get them from the same suppliers and they're similar construction. Nothing exotic about them. Suspension and axle parts are similar. Ok yes if you buy the parts that say "Porsche" on the box, they cost 3x as much as the OE supplier part that is identical. But it sounds like you're smart enough to figure that out!! All the noise about oil changes strikes me as pretty odd; a filter is like $10 and you need 10 quarts of oil. Yes, it's 5 more quarts of oil than a 4-cylinder VW, but you can get a 5-quart bottle of reasonable oil for $25, and you only need to change it once a year, so who cares? The additional cost is less than dinner for two at a bad chain restaurant! Tell your wife Valentine's Day at Olive Garden is off this year, and you'll come out ahead Body and interior parts are hit or miss. Some things are ungodly expensive (e.g. a new shift **** is hundreds of dollars), while other parts are unbelievably cheap (e.g. I got a pair of GT3 brake scoops for $7, and a new interior dome light lens for less than a dollar). The big fear, like others have said, is a major mechanical failure in the engine or transmission. Those would be big dollars. And if you need a technician to do work for you, finding a competent one will be difficult, and paying them will be expensive. So basically I think if you want to keep it for a few years, and you buy a well-maintained one, you can expect it to be really cheap to own. This is not an exotic car where an oil change and tuneup is measured in thousands of dollars. But if you want to keep it forever, or if you buy a basket case, eventually something really expensive is probably going to happen. My positions is that a car like this HAS to be considered disposable. If you can't afford to just push it off a cliff and forget about it, you shouldn't buy it. That's what I keep telling myself while I worry about whether something on mine is going to break!! If your number one priority is cheap maintenance and operating cost, obviously there are better options out there, but clearly people who buy cars like 996s and Saabs are looking for something other than a reliable beige appliance.

Haven't had a Viggin, but I've owned a 2000 540i that I drove for 145,000 miles and an '86 Mercedes 190E that I drove 195,000 miles, both from new. Neither car required much more than oil & filter changes every 3000 miles and following the manufacturer's recommended service. When I bought my 2002 Cab from my son-in-law a year ago (who bought it new), I had it gone completely through by a great mechanic for $8500. It drives like new and I drive it every day. It had 60,000 miles on it when I bought it and I've put on 8,000 miles over the past year with zero problems. If you buy a Cab, be sure to run that top up and down often. You'll have fewer problems if you do! For 23 years of my life, I flew airplanes for the USAF as a Command Pilot (Lockheed C-141 Starlifters). What you hated to see was a "newly refreshed" plane right out of two months in the service dock just before you headed out to fly to Antarctica or somewhere. In short, planes are designed to perform properly when they are FLOWN and not designed to sit on the ground. Cars are no different. If you get your 996, drive it as often as you can, keep clean fluids in it, and prepare to enjoy a wonderful experience. Here's a pic of my cab taken in Pescadero, CA on famous Highway 1. As noted above, these ARE Supercars: IMG_6056_zpsfn7wwpqh.jpg

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Lol. I'm not concerned, just surprised. My old truck had a 5.9L V8 and only took about 5qt. 10qt is still well under my current truck's 13qt capacity. But you're right, in my head I was comparing it to my WRX and Viggen's 5qts each (2.0L H4 and 2.3L I4).

These threads crack me up. The last regular 996 in the US is a model year 2004. Find me a cheap to maintain car from 2004 that you would actually want to drive that doesn't have major deferred maintenance or cosmetic issues. My 1999 F-150 rusted apart in my driveway (the 996 hasn't). Comparing anything to a Saab is crazy. Saab is no more. You can go to any Porsche dealer in the world and get spare parts for a 996 (at ridiculous prices and questionable experience on a 996) but it's possible. Not so with a Saab. Good luck when a soccer mom hits your Scandinavian dream in the Whole Foods. My 996 is roughly comparable to my 993 in terms of maintenance costs, which is to say not cheap. If money is an option buy a different car. The Porsche will be more to maintain than most, but less than a true exotic. It pains me to state the obvious.

"the car that started the madness even looks like the 996 -->" Really? Uh, I think that's quite a s-t-r-e-t-c-h... (pun intended). That is one seriously ugly car (the Saab that is...)

it was cool at the time! amazing amount of oversteer! when i bought it new they sent you to road atlanta for a 2 day driving school,that was great!

"it was cool at the time! amazing amount of oversteer! when i bought it new they sent you to road atlanta for a 2 day driving school,that was great! " Well, ^that one's^ a coupe, and it's red! Much better looking than the photo I was reffering to... It still doesn't look like a Porsche though...

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There are some definite similarities. Both are fastbacks with slim hood profiles, low to the ground, relatively small cars, and have smooth profiles for good aero. I definitely see the visual similarities. Internally of course they're massively different. Front Engine, FWD vs Rear Engine RWD...

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You forgot to mention they both have 4 wheels and are European...

both the old Saabs & 911s have extremely good drive feel & road feedback. There aren't many cars I've driven that remind me of the 996 but a 900 turbo is one of them.

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I had a chevy celebrity back in the day. There hasn't been another car on the road that reminded me of the incredible feedback and driving experience as that until I bought a sabb900

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I like your optimism! That is a very long reach...

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It's the same logic used when people say the Saab 900 or 9-3 looks like the 00-06 Hyundai Elantra GT, fastback profile and aerodynamic form is unusual enough that it creates it's own little sub-group of cars. I'm not saying the cars are comparable in terms of driving experiences. They are both fast and fun to drive, yes, but the Porsche is a more pure driving experience in many, many ways. The Viggen is still a great car, roomy, comfortable, fast (especially on the highway), fuel efficient... and so on. But it's great in the context of a daily driver, and even then it's viability is waning now that Saab is gone. A 911 is an entirely different beast, a pure sports car where every aspect of the driving experience is taken to another level and is prioritized over, say, rear seat leg room. All I was trying to do by starting this thread is see where the maintenance costs will fall on my, perhaps unusual, spectrum of expectations. The Viggen, for example, I've owned for 6 years and I've put in about $4k per year (including basic maintenance like oil changes and tires)... yes, that's $24k into the Viggen which I bought for $5k. My truck, I probably put $3k a year into on average, though this past year has been high enough to skew that towards $5k. The 4runner, I probably put $2k into a year. Our WRX before we sold it was $2k/year. From what I gather from this thread and from my own research, $3k a year seems to be a reasonable expectation, with $5k in the first year to fix issues from the previous owner and knowledge that on any given year it could easily be $5k due to something unexpected. Which to me is reasonable. tl;dr: I'm not trying to say a Viggen = 911... that'd be ridiculous. And the costs of maintenance appear to be fairly comparable between the two, at least with my approach to maintenance.

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If you love the car, nothing we say will change your mind. I certainly didn't listen to anybody and I'm completely happy with my purchase. Yes, it does cost more to maintain a Porsche, period. But your best option, in my opinion, buy the 911 but also go find a rock solid 2001 Honda Civic automatic. That's my back up car and since 2001 we've maybe spent $6k in repairs and you can find them for less than $2k. With that on hand you can drive your Porsche to your heart's content and never worry that you won't make it to work the day after something breaks. Also, your that car has made it to 185,000 miles then I doubt everything is stock. I'm replacing the struts in my car right now at 83,000 and they're squeeky as all hell, so failing parts tend to stand out when you're looking at car. So more to your point, front and rear struts with mounts are about $1200 from Pelican with very clear instructions. If if you're considering having the clutch/flywheel/IMS/RMS done then you can definitely haggle the price down for that alone. Dealers will do a lot of work to sell the car as well, good ones anyway. Take advantage where you can and you can always come here for advice and help with repairs. We all like saving money or else we'd all be on the 991 GT3RS forum. Make good choices! -Dan

Once a car starts getting into the 20-year-old bracket, I don't think it's realistic to try to bracket your repair exposure the same way you would on a 3-year-old late-model used car. At this point, there is a dearth of affordable M96 replacement motors - at least on my continent. There are many, many cheap things to fix on a 996. The motor is not one of them. What's your tolerance to a possible - though admittedly improbable - $15,000 to $20,000 repair bill (or, if you decide to dump it, your tolerance to your 996 suddenly being worth about $5K)? Knowing what I know now, I would absolutely do the same thing - but my 996 has been really solid. There are others here who do not feel the same way. Also, what's your tolerance for having your car down for a day, or a week, or three weeks while you try to source some obscure/ridiculously expensive part? If I needed a reliable, primary vehicle, it wouldn't be a 20-year-old anything... Basic maintenance is not brutal for the 996; if you DIY, it's no worse than any sports car. It's the unexpected things that get expensive fast. Your sensitivity to time is also going to affect how much repairs cost. If you can park it until you get around to fixing it, your budget probably won't be affected; if you need it fixed by tomorrow because you can't get to work without it, you're going to pay more. A lot more.

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This, this is the answer I was looking for and more-or-less what I had gathered from the other posts. Maintenance not being that much more than other high-end European cars, but catastrophic failures are exceedingly costly. The time component is a great thing to add. It's an important consideration (although not an issue for me). Thank you all for the feedback. I think I have a clear understanding of where my expectations should be if I move forward.

Glad we could help. The other side of the coin: Many cars are just cars. The 996 is a great car AND a great toy; if you have the means, acquire one by any means necessary.

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They are super cars, but they are not Supercars. I share your enthusiasm for the 996 but, respectfully, to say that the 996 (even a TT) is a Supercar is just too much of a stretch. My C4S's performance (fuel mileage aside ) pales compared to my CTT-S and no self-respecting Supercar should get spanked by an SUV of the same vintage. YMMV lol...

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Well, for the sake of being accurate: the 996 was considered an everyday supercar in 1999. Of course, 300HP in a 3,000 pound package in 2017 is no longer supercar territory. None of the SUVs I drove in 1999 did 0-60 in 5 seconds...

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You Tube It seems like a bit of a stretch... but, 1 minute 42 seconds... just sayin'

For 1999 quickest cars. Carrera is #4 on the list, matching the 0-60 times for Diablo Roadster. http://sportscarstandings.com/Top-10-Fastest-Cars/1999

Heh. 0-60 times reached diminishing returns what, a decade ago? I'm glad the world has people for whom half-a-tenth less to 60MPH is worth another $50K, or $150K, or $500K...but I don't think I'll ever be one of 'em.

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My C4S is an '03 and my Cayenne an '05 so my frame of reference was that time frame but I suppose that in the 90's the Supercar bar was lower. My '95 NSX was lauded as an "exotic" and "supercar" but to me it never approached that pantheon- until it got FI and tripled it's original 272 HP output. That changed the personality of the car considerably and while not necessarily all for the better in my mind it made it more "super". 0-60 times are great benchmarks but that really isn't entirely what the term "supercar" means to me. Curb appeal is a large part too IMHO. Roll up anywhere in the Diablo Roadster and then make the same entrance in a 996 and I just don't think you'll get the same reception. Jaws will slacken and possibly hit that same curb at the sight of the Diablo but the 996 probably wouldn't be received the same way. Top speed is another benchmark that's another virtually worthless stat but it serves to help sort out the pecking order. Agreed but it's meaningful for bench racing. Don't get me wrong I really enjoy and appreciate my 996. It's a sweetheart and with the yellow widebody a looker in its own right but I suppose deep down I'm just too pragmatic.

A local guy posted something a few months back about the 0-60 in his 981 Boxster being "ok". I reminded him that 981s & Pcars in general shine between 60 and 160, nevermind the stoplight stats.

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What are you talking about? The 996 is a drag mo-sheen! The way the engineers use wheel hop and clutch smoke - instead of some ***** "launch mode" button - to get the 996's unbridled fury down to the road is sheer genius. You wouldn't think a neck-snapping, kidney-bursting torque monster like the M96 could be tamed with such seemingly barbaric techniques, but the end result is completely driveable.

Wheel hop & clutch smoke is very apt for 996 'burnouts' Maybe we're just doing it wrong & need to go buy Hellcats & Skynyrd tats.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...52180690,d.cGc You Tube

Yes, and the Tiburon that has two turbocharged engines does great burnouts. (Obviously they spent the real money on the Tiburons and not the potatocam used to film this mess.) The seemingly inexplicable appearance of a man in drag - including pearls - @ :55 makes the video that much more special. You Tube

The Saab is a better made car, lasts a lot longer, and doesn't tend to suffer from as many catastrophic engine failures. The other thing, the Viggen as you know, outperforms the 996 in mid range acceleration, so you aren't buying a "faster car" unless driving 160mph+ is a requirement lol. The 9-5 Aero and Viggen are phenomenal values considering the peanuts it costs to buy one. The Saab B235 engines can sludge up, but generally only if oil changes have been missed. If the car has a perfect service history, you will struggle to find a better made car that will last as long. The world is filled with Saabs that have 500,000+ on their original engines. Very very few Porsches have managed that. Now a late Saab 9000 Aero with a 5-speed...with some minor mods you have a car that will outperform a 996 and make a lot of Porsche fans very very angry. You will spend a lot more when things go wrong on a 996. These cars are plagued with issues in comparison. I mean really...I owned a lot of Saabs, 2000s era Porsches are very disappointing, especially compared to 1980s Saabs which last forever. Expect a large uptick in stress and expenses, you've been warned. And to this day, I have never driven a car as fun as a classic Saab 900 turbo, good god...that road feel is on par with an Aircooled 911.

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Also time spent on rennlist reading about all the other 996 issues people are facing and hoping it doesn't happen to you... Then you go to the garage, admire for a second and then drive and you smile because it's all worth it Also you can be happy that the manufacturer that made your car is still in existence :-p

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^ 996 ownership experience summed up.

Let's not forget he's talking about buying an $11,000 car, fellas. For all of the dire warnings, his maximum loss on the car is about $5k if the engine lets loose and he sells the carcass as a roller. A set of Sumi HTRZIIIs for the rear: $133 each at Tirerack. Add shipping/mounting/balancing and you're at well under $400 for the set. That's plenty of tire for a $11k 996. And $5k for maintenance? I know it's possible. But I haven't spent anywhere near that over the past 4+ years total on my two 996s combined. Don't overthink it. Fix stuff WHEN it breaks, not because it MIGHT break. There's a good chance you'll drive that car for 2 or 3 years with minimal maintenance and sell it for what you paid for it. And compared to the 2 Land Rovers I've owned, the 996s have been like freaking Honda Accords reliability-wise.

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People sleep on those cars, but they are fun as hell. The 996 only passes it at higher speed. A 900 turbo out of tight corners is a feeling to remember. Tried to nudge my dad towards buying the black CE 93 turbo on Bring A Trailer last month, but failed. We both tracked the auction up til the end though, so there's hope.

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apparently you've never driven a Chevy celebrity

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+900 I must have had 14 or 15 Saabs. Started with a 1974 99, then seven or eight 900s, half of them turbocharged, three of them convertibles. Current one is a last-of-the-line '94, ruby red with tan top. It's beautiful. And they're starting to fetch serious money - a one-owner car just made $18k on BAT . There's another one up now which I'll watch with interest. Years back I had a 9000 CSE with the light pressure turbo which was fantastic for road trips. Replaced it with my first ever brand new car, a Cosmic Blue 9-5 Aero wagon, which might still perhaps be the best car I've ever owned. RIP Saab - getting all misty-eyed here

In the real world, I'm not expecting the Porsche to be faster than the Viggen. From 45-115, the Viggen is an absolute beast. I've had guys out for "pleasure cruises" with their ladies "race" me on the highway and most cars just can't keep up. Admittedly this is becoming less and less true, the latest Vettes are faster, the new big Mustangs are faster, I'm sure GT3s are faster... I honestly can't say about the 996 Turbo... probably close to a dead heat. I'm sure 997 and 991 Turbos would beat it and true exotics like Ferrari, I wouldn't even suggest I'm in the same category. With that said, outside of the highway, I'd lose hands down. Front wheel drive just can't compete with rear or all wheel drive. The Viggen'd outpace my WRX (02 Bugeye) on the highway, but in the corners the WRX would be gone (the turbo lag was also much worse in the WRX, although it did rev higher). The thing about the Viggen is that the power is just there, the turbo kicks in by 1700-1800RPM under acceleration compared to the WRX's 2500RPM, and even before the turbo kicks in, the power is still there. Driving the Viggen hard feels like you're floating around on a cloud... every time you put your foot down you just wooosh forward. That's the thing, the woosh, that feeling of being on a cloud. Yes, the Viggen's suspension is hard (harder than the WRX), but the seats are exceedingly comfortable and the interior is well apportioned, you can drive for hundreds of miles and not be uncomfortable. It also gets decent mileage (27mpg average vs the WRXs 23mpg) and has the biggest trunk you'll find outside of a full blown wagon. All this adds up to a simple fact: The Viggen is one of the best daily drivers ever made. It's not the only one, the E39 M5 has more room in the cabin but way worse fuel economy, the 02-07 WRX's AWD is fantastic in the winter at the sacrifice of some creature comforts, but both of these are also absolutely fantastic cars. The thing is, the Viggen is my wife's DD and her baby... and I've always said, if I win the lottery, my ideal summer DD would be a 911 (a latest MY Turbo). They have a reputation of reliability, they have a pure driving experience, they have enough room for my wife and I and our luggage in a pinch, and they have presence... I could go to a company event and have my coworkers go "Wow, you have a Porsche!" in a way that the Saab or WRX would not. I did not win the lottery, but I do think I might have found a great deal on a 996... On the Supercar/Not-Supercar argument, I'm afraid I come down on the Not-Supercar side... with a caveat. The 911 is a fantastic sports car, the pinnacle of a sports car really, but it's still a sports car. I also would not consider a Lamborghini Gallardo or Audi R8 to be supercars. There is a clear Porsche supercar from the 996 era, the Carrera GT, and it would sit comfortably in a car park alongside the Lamborghini Diablo/Murci�lago, Ferrari 360/F430, or a Mercedes SLR McLaren. The caveat is that the GT2 really brakes that threshold, and GT3 comes right up against it (as does the Gallardo Superlegera and the Nissan GT-R). I don't think anyone would deny that the GT2 is a supercar.

Quotes source post: 14108207

I hope you don't really believe what you're saying here. A 996TT beats a Viggen in the 1/4 mile by about 4 seconds. A 996.2 runs it in 13ish, while a Viggen needs mid to high 14s when being kind. Totally get what you're saying about the 'feel' of the turbo (gearing as well) and I've put my share of miles on Saab turbos. May even buy one down the road. But let's be honest about reality. Viggen weights 3,000+, 230hp 996s start at 3,000 lbs & 300-320hp. GT3 at a conservative 380 & TT @ 420 is a different league. The gearing is very different, but it still doesn't override the gaping difference in power to weight.

Quotes source post: 14108207

Love your passion for the Viggen, but . . . if you find yourself in Kansas City, I can help clear that up for you.

Quotes source post: 14108329

I am saying specifically at highway speeds. I have absolutely no illusions about from a standing start, any 911 would roast the Viggen. - To clarify, highway speeds means rolling start of 45-70mph and top speeds of 120-130mph where the risks cause drivers to back off the throttle and say "it's not worth it". Are you saying that a 996 Turbo is faster than a 996 GT3? If so, then I have this wrong and the turbo would definitely outpace the Viggen at highway speeds... from personal experience, a 996 GT3 will outpace the Viggen even at highway, a Carrera simply will not (not sure if it was a C2 or C4).

MKI GT3 made 360HP. MKI Turbo made 415, with 444 for X51 Turbo cars. The GT2 makes 489HP. From slowest to fastest (at least from A to B): NA 996, GT3, Turbo, GT2.

Lucie, out of curiosity what makes this car a great deal in your mind? I'm not saying it's not...

996tt is significantly faster than a 996gt3 (in a straight line). I also find it hard to believe you'd walk a stock 996 on the highway in a Viggen. Do a 40-130 timed video and post it up. Or find a local 996 owner to run a rolling start 1/2 mile with you at a local event.

Quotes source posts: 14108380, 14108380, 14108380

Correct I think you're being deceived by the feel of speed versus actual speed. 120 is very smooth and there's nothing worrisome about it in the 996. In a Saab 120 feels like hooning a sport bike. The 996TT is a supercar. 200mph capable chassis, ludicrous acceleration. It's not in the same category as a Viggen. Just look at the numbers. I'd love to have a GT3 and may get that chance someday. But I don't know or care if a TT or GT3 is faster, I just know that my personality type should stick with naturally aspirated sports cars. For a relatively tame sedan-type, I can stay out of trouble with a Viggen. Me and a TT would not end well, they're just too much car. I respect them enough to know that.

At (what is now) San Diego Porsche some years ago, there was a GT2 on the showroom floor priced oddly. It was too expensive to be used, but too cheap to be brand new, so I asked for the story. A regular customer came in, bought the car (cash), drove it 60 miles over 2 weeks, and sold it back because he know he would eventually die in that car. He "downgraded" to a GT3 or a Turbo. This is the only person I'm aware of who has spent more money in a shorter period of time on a car he doesn't actually still own than John Ireland.

Quotes source post: 14108207

i have a bridge to sell you..

Quotes source post: 14108546

Uhh, you need to put air in the tires or change some worn suspension parts, lol. Have you actually driven a Viggen? The B235R Saabs are fabulous machines. As pointed out on a prior page from a 9-5 Aero owner, and I had a wagon and a sedan, until you've driven one... The Trionic engine management system that Saab developed is really something very special, the power than can be produced from 4cylinders on these cars is just silly. You can even modify displacement, cams, fuel, turbo and the car can map itself instantly. Any grade of fuel, altitude, driving style...non issue. A worthwhile read. As for the chassis, well...it's no 911, but the longer wheelbase makes for some pretty stable 140mph operation, been there done that. And yes, midrange acceleration, say 30mph-100 the Saab B235Rs spank the 911TT! So playing with a Saab on the interstate can be a very embarrassing experience for a Porsche owner. Not to bash the 911/996/911TT, but Saabs are not to be taken lightly. Sports car/super car vs. sporty family/executive car, I mean, to compare apples and oranges for their nutritional value is one thing, but taste/personal preference/appetite/desire is a whole other issue, it really depends on what kind of driving one is looking to do.

Hmm, I never thought I would have a chance to bring this out on Porsche forum. But man, too easy. I love my Saab like I love my ganja I�ll smoke ya v-8 like I smoke marijuana Back up boy and show some respect My Saab Viggen has a 4 cylinder ecotec When I go out people wanna see my ride They always stare at the "Born from Jets" on the side I painted my hood black for that carbon fiber look My windshield wiper lights that off tha fu**ng hook I took off my hubcaps cause they give me better times When I rip a new track I�m stunnin on my rhymes My exhaust turned sideways with a 5 inch tip I raced a z06 and took home his pink slip I got a new spoiler from J.C. whitney It's a 15 inch doublestak worth every penny APC decals and two racing stripes 4 ion blue daytime runiing lights When I take off tha front tires go up in smoke And chevy�s with 350�s ain�t nothing but a joke Went to Pep Boys and bought all the neon lights Its like Las Vegas when you see me at night Don�t mess with tha turbo 2.3 cause it�ll send ya home Cryin lika fat kid that dropped his ice cream cone When ya see my comin get outta my way I gotta cruise tha mall cause you know its Friday I doing loud fly-bys all down tha highway Bumping some techno with my visor turned sideways If you wanna race ya *** will get tossed I throw in it neutral and rev up the exhaust I�m gonna leave your *** in a world on pain My adrenaline rushin with tha Swedish turbo in my veins Nutra slam it in drive when the light turns green And I�ll eat a Saleen like ya momma lean cusine I got another victory in the "domestic basher" I�ll pull in front of you and throw on my flashers When ya lost you called me a cheater Ya just couldn't hang with the 2.3 liter Tha Viggen is more like a rocket than it is a car You�ll be sayin to ya self �damn is that a Aero car� Don�t mess with Saabs cause they�re outta ya class I wait till ya get beside me trying ta pass Let ya hear tha turbo when I step on tha gas Next thing ya know your *** is finishin last I fix you a "Saab" burger with some viggen sauce You�re *** will be fired cause Saab is tha boss Is NOT called nitrious tha **** is called called NOS You should know by now your life is a loss It�s about time you stop driving all them wrecks Get a job at hardees and save all ya checks Or sue KFC for falling on ya neck And when you get paid buy yourself a Viggen ecotec And another one Rollin down the strip just hollerin� at b***hes My Saab is bouncing cut the springs 3 inches My neons are flashing with the beat of my bass Just another Friday night and my Viggen ready to race I got mad props for days from all the races that I�m winning And when I�m stopped at a redlight my hubcaps keep spinning My Seat is layed back got my hat cocked to the side My skin may be white but I claim Swedish pride My FWD is just burning up the streets While I got your head bobbin to this cold *** beat Tearing down you block with my crazy *** drivin� I�m ripping through your town like hurricane Ivan Got the music blaring from my audiovox speakers The crowd parts in half when I hit the strobes in my blinkers People gather around looking kinda curious They all wanted to know if I�m in the Fast and the Furious. I got out of my car with my pants just saggin Then popped open my hood so I could start bragging Chrome exhaust tip with built in LED lights Custom cold air intake made from PVC pipe 2 Jensen subs in the trunk that are bangin� hard Grill from Home Depot made from Gutter Guard Reving up my exhaust at everything I drive by Saw a Camero in the slow lane and gave him a ricer fly by I got your mirrors vibrating from the bass of my subs I told my momma for Crimus I want the Giovanni Dubs I got Viggen symbols on the back of my car If you could read Swedish it would say �Super fast car� I got a carbon fiber wing that stands 3 ft high It it was any bigger I�d be flyin� in the sky Fools driving driving domestics know that imports are superior I got 15 horsepower just by painting my interior I got more horsepower than the phonebooks got pages And my speedometer reads 140 on my indiglo gauges I got purple neons underneath that keep the ground lit 3 more paychecks and I�ll have my body kit Got decals on the side of all the sponsors I wanna get And they�ll all coming crawling cause this songs about to hit I gotta get my Viggen ready for the road to Nopi When the judges see my car I�ll get the first place trophy I�ll smoke any car at Hot Import Nights The only thing you will see is my altezza taillights Cause everybody knows Saabs are the fastest car yet I�ll eat a mustang for breakfast and sh*t out a corvette

You Tube

Yeah, obviously a Saab Viggen is way faster than a Porsche 996TT. Why is this even a discussion?

Because Jets.

Quotes source post: 14108054

Those who know, just know The Aero Wagon is def one of my favs. I had an '01, so the big brakes combined with the 17 inch 3-spokes , lots of memories dusting P-cars. I did the Bilstein HDs....that handling was really really really fabulous. Nice set of of tires, 94 Octane fuel, and a cool morning at sea level. Perfection. The things that car could do with absolute grace. I'm not really a Viggen enthusiast, the 9-5 has a much more refined chassis, and it makes a world of difference. Cool cars. Cosmic blue!! Do you have a pic?

One of my employees had a Saab thing from her youth. She ran out and bought a "new" Saab a number of years back. Unfortunately, she bought one of the 9-3's that was really a rebadged Malibu. Bummer.

Is Viggen Swedish for "torque steer"?

Quotes source post: 14109194

Yes. Just as 911 is German for "lift-off oversteer"

Yeah man, but that's at the limit. There's quirky, and then there's making your fastest car FWD. Saab called the Viggen "exciting to drive," but everyone else was concentrating on not being flung off the huvudv�g in first or second. Eventually, Saab limited the power to the wheels in lower gears. Now that's a workaround.

Found old MW test for viggen. On hot day it ran 15.2 at 96mph; give it 14.7 and 98mph on cold day with great driver. Slowest 996s trap in 103mph range, turbo is in 115mph+ range. Unless we are talking very heavily modified 9-3 or 9-5 racing stock 996s, this thread is slipping into nonsense territory. You Tube

Quotes source post: 14109430

Go back and re-read Nobody was talking about 0-60 or top speed. Nobody.

Quotes source post: 14108847

Are you stoned right now? I'm being serious. Video your 30-100 mph pull. And I'd like to see a dyno to back up your ludicrous speed acceleration numbers. PS April fools was 2 weeks ago.

Trap speed is indicative of what the car will do from the roll. My E55 has TWICE the torque of Viggen and 9-5 AERO, and my acceleration is on par with 996TT. And in stock form, I will blow the doors off from ANY stock saab from any speed and in ANY gear. Found a heavily modified Saab, talking 2x the power pulling on the W210 non-supercharged E55...at the top end. You Tube

^^see, fvkn jets bro born from jets

9-34LYFEYO

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/640x480/saab_8c3bfb9fbf8c89f1d37804e393aef01910d19192.jpg

Quotes source post: 14109467

When I was a kid at the chicago auto show for the first time I remember the Saab exhibit had speakers hidden somewhere making all kinds of jet noises. Little kid me was all excited hearing these jet noises off in the distance, because freakin jets dude! Imagine my disappointment on finding the area where the jet noises were coming from, and seeing a sad looking Saab. There were no missiles on it. No afterburners. No Tom Cruise anywhere. I've had a grudge against Saab ever since.

If only Dom had asked for a 15-second car, the movie would have been so much cheaper.

See, I remember the 80's. I remember watching Alex P. Keaton and wanting to be just like him. And becoming just like him. But even in the 80's - when pastel-wearing morons were buying Saabs - I _still_ didn't understand the Saab thing. I had ONE friend who was a Saab wanna-be for some reason I never understood. He claimed they were fast - but no car is fast enough to make up for what those cars looked like in the 80's. Even Stephen Hawking once said "Jeeeezuz thats an ugly carurr *bzzt*"

Quotes source post: 14109725

True story, I read about his opinions on it in A Brief History of Time

Quotes source post: 14108531

Well, I'm not going to buy it if the owner won't come to $10k, maybe $11k... I would say any running $10k 911 is a good deal... ... A $10k 911 that has all service records from the original purchase to today. Admittedly it's a $10k 911 because it has 185k mi and has never had the IMSB done, and could need a clutch really at any time. If I buy it and the clutch never goes, it'll be a great deal. If I buy it and the clutch goes, it'll be a $13-14k 911 with 185k and a brand new clutch, RMS, and IMSB, and if I buy it and IMSB goes, then I'll be out $6-7k and rather unhappy. I'm still assessing if that risk is worth taking, but leaning on the yes side if the owner respects my offer.

Quotes source posts: 14108546, 14108847

Let me first say, in regards to the comparative performance of Viggen vs Turbo it would appear I was wrong. If the Turbo's straight line performance (highway performance) is superior to a GT3, then it would definitely beat a Viggen even in it's sweet spot. I was working off the incorrect assumption that the Turbo was a hair slower across the entire range than the GT3. I can also tell you that a GT3 will match and even has a slight edge over a Viggen, even in the Viggen's sweet spot. I can tell you this because as sure as I am that you can get people in a tizzy by mentioning Saab in a Porsche forum, you can also get a Porsche driver to try and race you by passing them angrily. For some reason Porsche drivers don't like to be passed... Scenario: GT3 driver is in front of me on the highway in the right lane. In front of him is some idiot doing 20 under the speed limit. In the left lane is a long line of traffic, so we're both stuck there behind this slowpoke. Suddenly, there is a brake in the left lane, so I floor it and fly by the GT3 and whatever POS car was in front of him, dropping back into the right lane to find oh-so-sweet open road. But hey, suddenly the GT3 is right on my *** (at like 80ish), so I floor it and so do they. They kept pace, right up until the lanes cleared, then they tried to pass... I think from 60-90 (passing the slowpoke and getting on it) we were pretty evenly matched, but over 100 they started to make headway. The Viggen's acceleration stays very strong up to about 130mph, but the GT3 stays strong a good while after that. Sadly I cannot say, because over about 120mph on a trafficked highway is not something I'm comfortable with, so I backed off, not to mention they were winning already anyway. A similar experience happened a year or two earlier, only this time it was a Carrera (it was debadged and I couldn't tell you if it was a C2 or C4, 6-Speed or Tip, all I can tell you is it was a 996, and even that I can't be 100% sure on). This time there was no traffic, just open road and two drivers having fun. We lined up, shared a glance, and floored it from about 60mph. I kept pulling ahead all the way up to 120mph or so when we both backed off. Knowing the car, I'm sure I wouldn't have been all that far ahead at 130mph. The 996 (even a Carrera) would probably have caught up in the 140s, and of course would have kept on pounding even after I hit the limit at 145-147. It's a fact though, stock for stock, I can pass you (get ahead of you) in your C2 or C4 on the highway and there is nothing you can do about it (unless you want to keep going past 130mph in which case I'm going to let you win). It's one of the very thrilling things about a Viggen, doing that to drivers of various makes and models who have no idea what they're up against. I am not saying a Viggen is the best car ever, I'm just saying in this one regard it is very, very good. A lot of cars are much better in corners, or off the line, or have higher top speed. On a track it'd lose to a 911 of any era or trim every time, it'd lose to a lot of cars. The chassis is crap for anything other than highway and the FWD sucks at corners and off-the-line. The reason I love the Viggen so much is because in a daily driver, the highway is the place you really want to use your speed, and that's right where it has it.

Quotes source posts: 14108546, 14108847

In a Viggen 120mph is smooth as silk. Excellent aero (something the 911 and 9-3 share in common) goes a long way to making high-speeds comfortable. I can't attest to top speed above 140mph, but I can tell you it's still quite comfortable at 135-ish. With nice smooth highway-style corners... the Saab just wafts you along. If more highways were unlimited, I would go everywhere at 120mph in the Viggen.

Viggens are about 1-2s slower 60-100 than 996 manual coupes based on the interwebs numbers. This enthusiast has some cool ones. I dig the SPG more than the Viggen. You Tube

I'm convinced.

Quotes source post: 14110303

Both of his cars are quite nice, but his SPG is in a whole other realm. Out of his two cars, I'd pick the SPG too. He's was trying to sell that Viggen for years (too many cars). Last I heard he sold it last year. My car, for reference: Who knows, maybe I am wrong and even the Carrera can outpace the Viggen. Maybe that experience was a one-off, either the driver wasn't pushing it or the Viggen fared better in the 8 years since it's production (I'm sure neither car has the full factory-spec HP after 8 years). Maybe a million other things.... frankly, I don't care. Ultimately I don't drive the Viggen for speed... if I wanted a race car I chose the wrong platform. I drive it for fun... and boy on the highway is it. Well, and for practicality. Maybe if I get the 996 the wife and I will go really put them through their paces and settle this. Anywho, I really didn't start this thread to compare apples to oranges. They are two completely different types of vehicle. All I wanted to compare was the cost of maintenance and whether or not my already expensive to repair Viggen had prepared my expectations for what a Porsche would cost.

Porsche guys get a little sensitive when the Saab talks kicks up Always give a car credit where it is deserved, Saab figured out turbocharging and had it dialled by the late 1980s. Saab absolutely owned it. Then Trionic came along, re-wrote spark/fuel/boost management textbooks. The thing nobody here has pointed out, a T5 or T7 Saab will have A LOT more power at sea level in a temperate area vs. say SoCal mountains on a hot day. Take the car up the continent to somewhere dry and hot, and the car becomes pretty lethargic. Saabs will not pre-detonate, so performance will be dialled back considerably if conditions are not very good. All Saabs have sensitive pre-ignition detection from late 1983 onwards, this allowed the cars to be run on any grade of fuel. Most Saab owners ran their cars on regular....There's a big difference between 85/87 octane and 94, especially when you are pulling full boost sustained for a period of time Saab T7 B235R cars have an overboost feature, where under the right conditions and the use of very high octane fuel (94), you get an extra 20hp and 30-40ftlbs at like 2,850 RPMS. To make that much more power so low on the rev range is a strong advantage. And like it keeps getting pointed out, the 1/4 mile, top speed, drag, circuit...whatever, the fact that Saab is a family car becomes apparent. But yeah, Saab are 'ugly', so they suck lol. But to the OP, owning and loving both Pcars and Saabs, there is a big difference in maintenance and repair costs. If you are DIY inclined, you can reduce this; however, rarely does a Saab hit you with a DIY repair cost that is the value of the car. The 996 has a flawed engine design, which keeps the purchase price of these cars low, and thus the 996 has a bit of a reputation for being a liability. When have you ever heard of a Saab with an H-motor where an owner cuts open to inspect oil filters and use oil analysis like a kidney patient on dialysis? I mean, part of 996 ownership is utterly ridiculous.

Quotes source post: 14111579

I run 93... 91 when I have to in the Saab, and in my neck of the woods it's all between 10-500ft above sea level, temperate climate, so on. In a sense the point is that if you're close enough that sort of thing matters, the cars are pretty comparable. I bought the Viggen for $4700, good ones'll run you $6-9k depending on mileage (I'm at 191k ish now, bought it at 146k). Last clutch job (and some voluntary work like engine mounts, etc.) ran just under $7k (admittedly I was not happy). All my repair work added up and I'm over $20k. I think, at least in my case, it's prepared me reasonably well, at least for maintenance costs. Repair costs is a whole other story, but this forum and other research online has helped me have a reasonably informed perspective about the likelihood of engine failure and the costs associated with it. Ultimately, I think about it in terms of risk. If I buy this particular car, I'd consider the chances of needing to do a clutch replacement 45% during my tenure. Tires, 100%, brakes, 100%. IMSB... I'll replace it with the clutch if I do the clutch, otherwise I'd say 1%, maybe 1.5% chance of catastrophic failure. I'll get the spin-on adapter, magnetic drain plug, and change every 3000, but it doesn't really affect that chance, only the potential chance I might be able to catch it and save the engine if it happens.

Quotes source post: 14111579

Actually NA cars suffer from altitude much worse than FI cars... this is why planes started using turbojets instead of NA engines. You should know this... the whole born from jets thing and all.

Quotes source post: 14111654

$7k, yikes. I've never seen a repair that high on a Saab in my life

A NA '99 - with the "slow" engine - goes like stink up to 130. The 130 to 150 pull is long, and puts you at redline in fifth...which leaves you asking just one question... ...do I try to grab sixth, or live with only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being this is a 996, the slowest supercar in the world, with an engine that can blow your wallet clean apart, you have to ask yourself..."do I feel lucky?" Well? Do ya, punk? Rev limit in second comes at about 70ish. A couple of seconds into third will put you past 100. For a car with 300HP, the 996 has grunt. The only pain comes at any speeds beyond 100; the wind resistance consumes an ever-increasing amount of horsepower regardless of how sweet the car is in the wind tunnel. If I was less of a p***y, I would dial back the angle on my wing to 4 degrees, but frankly I really like the feeling of the rear wheels being stuffed into the ground at speed, even at the expense of faster quicker.

Schneider, just buy a 9-3 and experience real speed.

Speed incarnate

Quotes source post: 14109646

I get to be Vin Diesel! Spasibo, Kalash

I beat a McLaren on I-80 this weekend. He was likely in 7th gear or so and we were leaving a construction zone. I dropped into 2nd and launched from 5,000rpms. Even though his 7th was probably producing 35% of peak Tq/Hp I decided it qualifies as a race won. My 996 with gear, gf and dog is faster than a McLaren. Which means a 5 door Saab is faster than a McLaren, which is faster than a 997TT. Ergo, I can probably pull on a 997TT.

Man, I had an F50 in my sights last night and was just about to reel him in, but my VTEC would not kick in, yo. This caused DANGER TO MANIFOLD. Suddenly afear! Very frighten. Yo.

Quotes source post: 14117061

Kill is a kill man! It doesn't matter that the other guy doesn't know you are racing, his fault for not paying attention. It seems like your car is running right with that tune and parts; probably low 10 second car on the street. I'd say go take on the Veyron or 918 next bro! I suggest you use the school bus as the flag; when those bus lights are flashing and stop sign is popped. You line up with the Veyron and keep your revs pegged to get that launch action. When stop sign folds, you dump the clutch! With your skills and mad powa your car is making, that Veyron will be toast bro! Scheider, you running that ram cold air intake with electric supercharger is your problem bro! Car is making too much boost, intake manifold may blow up! Turn down the voltage and angle the intake down a bit; should fix your issues.

It's kind of funny because this thread made me realize that almost never is my C2 actually 'raced'. Even when pushing it on canyon runs, I have 1-2 more gears - you just don't need to use everything available to have a spirited drive. I just about never take 3rd to 100, much less any high gear past high 5k rpm. Of course, we all know a 996 is no match for a 9-second 60-100 sprint like this Viggen. You Tube even though a 996 running at 75% still beats it..... You Tube

Tony, you are a fool. The "built from jets" Saabs all have MPH speedos. The km/h under speedometer stands for "kall" or cold miles/hour; this is to indicated that air is being intercooled prior to being afterburned by the turbo. So this car just did 60mph to 160mph in about 12 seconds.

Good to hear that we don't have to wind out 6th gear for those canyon runs. An NA 996 redlines at ~150mph in 5th...so we probably don't need to try to catch 6th and really get up a good head of steam before doing the James Dean...

Look, James Dean was on a state route when he passed (RIP homie). Second, my point was that you don't need to wind out 3rd or 4th like the guy in the Saab video. You get good torques at 4500 so why not shift at 6k & call it a day, eh? That was my point. Admittedly, I has taken 5th to 6k in a canyon. BUT, it was the best shot you ever sawr. Downhill, 1.5mi straight, no traffics, 3 lanes plus shoulders, no trees, slight downgrade from Merrill Lynch. It's a shot that would make Matt Farah or even a Saab engineer blush. Okay.

So...the 996 accelerated slowly because he wasn't trying as hard as the guy in the Saab? That's the most convenient - and most widely utilized - explanation for a poor showing.

Bingo. And you know why? Saabs haven't given 911 owners the proper motivation to give it a real go. It's not that they're lazy, it's that they just don't care. The polemics show up with a *high* 15-second car at a *low* 13-second car forum and say they got a big hog. Cute story, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it. So there they stand, pointing at their stories. "That's what she said lolllzz" this and "oh, tell that to my OPC gauge" that. It's all shtick and for naught. Because Papi don't care. An he aint need no overnight shipment from Sweden. Cash me outside, how bou da? You Tube

Well, looks like in a few weeks I'll be able to put this to the test, provided nothing unusual crops up in the PPI. Not that two cars at 191k mi and 185k mi are really representative of the performance from the factory... Now to find a stretch of road or runway...

KaBoom!

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Please do not do this in Upstate NY. Our roads are already pretty badly cratered and we do not need a lot of car parts, burnt fluids, and random shrapnel scattered about.

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For about $400 the Viggen's issues can be resolved. Shame they didn't do it from the start, the chassis was half-baked. Rear ASB and steering clamp and poly bushings, undercarriage 6-pt support.

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How does one even go about finding a random post from the middle of a 7 year old thread? What were you searching for when you saw this, and decided you just had to contribute to 2017? Just legitimately curious.

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No mystery - just bought a Laser Red 5Dr Viggen. I'm quite familiar with all 911s from my friend's '69 Soft Targa S through the 997 and familiar with SAAB as well. Let's just say in certain circumstances even an unmodified or Stage One Viggen will show heels to a Cayman/996 on a straight or moderately curved road. No big deal to me either way but it can be quite entertaining as a Cayman discovered yesterday, leading me to this.

If you get off on combatting massive torque steer it's an interesting sedan I guess. Last gasp for the old Saab. I had a 1968 Saab 95; it had about 75HP and still torque steered. Fun to drive through fields though. And my son loved the rear facing seat.

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https://986forum.com/forums/boxster-...boxster-3.html Ah, another Saab performance car driver. I've got a Viggen. Power and acceleration of the Viggen and the Boxster are about the same, but the delivery is completely different. The Boxster is rear wheel drive and naturally aspirated, the Viggen is front wheel drive and high pressure turbo. The Boxster power delivery is effortless and linear all the way to redline. The Viggen is working much harder (noticeable because it has sport motor and transmission mounts), but has virtually no turbo lag because of very clever tweaking of the throttle controls. Of course the biggest difference is rear wheel versus front wheel drive. The steering of the Boxster is much more crisp especially under acceleration. As long as you can get the power on the road (real men don't have traction control ) the steering is extremely effortless. The Viggen has serious difficulties putting all its power down through the front wheels, because of the high torque the wheels not only spin but also suffer a lot from torque steering. The Viggen is a real handful when driving it to the max. Still, I love driving both cars, the Box for its sportiness, the Viggen for its sheer brutality. The Box is more fun because the top goes down, the Viggen is more because its a stealth fighter (my greatest joy is smoking clueless BMW's).

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IDK about "getting off on combatting massive torque steer" stock the car is silly with it but I *DO* know about a big rear ASB and steering clamp/brace/poly bushing make a HUGE difference because I drove a Viggen with Stage 2 and those mods and it was night and day. Those coming soon. So I have my modded 535is for RWD and my Viggen for FWD and the Missus weighs in with another Swedish FWD for good measure. Next up, 986 Boxster. We'll need to park that one in the backyard or the neighbors will be pissed LOL. If you want to be sure to beat a Stage One Viggen on the highway it had better be an S though. Ask the 987 Cayman I just walked this week.