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YOUR RESEARCHAnother dead millennium?
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^^^ Seeing as what�s been happening to valuations lately (of all used cars in general, but more specifically to 996�s).
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Suggestion
Bear in mind you cant remove your updated seats with out it affecting your settlement unless you replace with like kind this is true for any items like wheels for example if you have a crappy set to put on you might get away with it.
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Bear in mind you cant remove your updated seats with out it affecting your settlement unless you replace with like kind this is true for any items like wheels for example if you have a crappy set to put on you might get away with it.
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And if you are unsure about that too, run a Google search.
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Their argument is always that your value is subjective bc it�s of �personal taste.� This is also going to come from having basic run of the mill insurance.
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Since when does insurance companies use BAT as a viable car value?
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Replace with like kind this is true
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Bear in mind you cant remove your updated seats with out it affecting your settlement unless you replace with like kind this is true for any items like wheels for example if you have a crappy set to put on you might get away with it.
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Their argument is always that your value is subjective bc it�s of �personal taste.� This is also going to come from having basic run of the mill insurance.
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Update: they�re going to resubmit the valuation based on my comps from BAT, I�m hoping that gets it up to 32-33k; again they didn�t use MEs as comps initially.
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Silver lining, we did some upgrades in the house, we got newer better equipment at work, and we didn't replace a lot of stuff we didn't need, i mean how many lace doilies can a guy use when doing an oil change...
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Totaled value was around $12.5K, we bought it back for around $1,450, fixed it for $5,000 and drove it for another 11 years.
I�m not sure what happened, yes I was enjoying getting on an on-ramp but I�ve driven the car nearly 30k miles and it was dialed. Back end pendulumed on me, I overcorrected and took out a crosswalk signal, then spun backwards hopping the curb and hitting something else with passenger door/rocker panel. Door won�t open. No other body damage.
I am 100% fine and the airbags did not deploy.
This is my pride and joy and I�m in shock so take it easy on me if you can. I�m like 55% sure they�re going to push to total it. Curious as to what the vets out there think in this regard. ****.
Sorry this happened to you. Probably totaled but very salvageable. Buy back and fix it. The model is too rare and unique to let it go.
If by some unfortunate measure you end up parting the car out, shoot me a PM as I could use a few interior trim bits for my ME.
For sure totaled guys? Looks like the bumper brace took the brunt of the impact but are you thinking the issue is the side impact and maybe the frame is bent?
I have so much into this car. Coilovers, full aftermarket exhaust, sway bars, corner balance, stereo, new tires. Literally 5 paint corrections and multiple ceramic coatings.
Oh. Color matched sport seats.
You got the sport seats color matched, so maybe you know of a somewhat affordable way to get Violet Chromaflair paint, but when I was looking at getting an ME, I did a bunch of research on the paint and talked to a few owners and heard horror stores about paint work. From over $5k 5+ years ago for just a front bumper repaint to paint shops refusing to paint anything, but the whole car because it was too hard to match the paint, to other paint shops attempt to match and failing horrible. I wouldn't be shocked if just the paint work alone totals the car. It really doesn't take much to totally these cars though, just look at the price of a factory bumper, headlight, etc and unless you have agreed value insurance, I would expect your insurance company only values the car around $20k, very possibly less. What ever guide LA uses to value your car, placed my '99 at $12k.
I am really sorry this happened to you and hope I am wrong and you can get the car fixed up. The ME is one of my favorite 911 models and Violet Chromaflair is my favorite Porsche color ever, so I'd love to see it back on the road. Best of luck!
As an aside, Incase you didn't know the only other time Porsche offered Chromaflair paint was green Chromaflair a few years ago as a $97k option. And my understanding is that wasn't all for exclusivity, but due to legitimate product and application costs. Ford offered a similar paint in the early to mid 2000s and the paint itself costs about $25k per gallon.
a lot of interesting tidbits here on the paint but man, don't even go there with that low valuation on this car - I did some quick analysis based on BAT (these are legit comparables) and a comp for mine W/O all the upgrades and giant stack of receipts is $33-35k. A 51k mile ME went for $48.5k and that was March. Yes, I have way more miles, but I also have way more proven dollars invested.
You are familiar with the increase in values in Porsches are you not? Also, given the rarity of these cars, sales data is low (which clearly adds to the added value of scarcity), but comp non ME's go for 10-15% less on average.
You're not the insurance company so I'll chill...
Also, it was $800 to paint the seats, not that bad. BUT, I have no doubt that color matching these cars is next to impossible and so now, TBH, I'm leaning towards hope that I'll get a fair dollar amount to let it go.
BTW, when did an insurance company offer you $12k for a 99? I'm guessing that was at least six years ago. I have an 02 boxster S getting a $10k bare metal respray the insurace company is paying $8k of.
Basically that tells me that an 02 boxster S with 100k miles is worth at least 15k to an insurance company.
An ME 911 is going to receive a SIGNFICANTLY higher valuation than that.
There isn't a frame on this car - it's the tub that's bent. That's what hurts you is it's all one piece. This is a GT3 diagram but the basic principle is the same - you're looking at the grey part not the green part. See how it's just one big continuous piece from front to back? Your crash bar probably saved you from damaging the front part that encompasses the frunk but you most likely put a nice ripple in the side of the tub.
Glad you're ok, bud. Sorry about the car.
$800 for the seats is not bad at all! That is like what it would cost for any color. Hopefully, that is a sign that there may be hope at least paint wise.
Sorry, to clarify the $12k valuation was the state tax assessment for titling my car in LA and was last month (6/22). I have not lived in LA long enough to know if it holds true here, but I found that in WA the state tax valuation was usually within about 10% of what the insurance company's valued your car at. I used to always ask my insurance their book value if it were to get totaled, because I used to daily 60s and 70s cars and despite having much higher actual values the insurance company's typically would value them at a couple grand and would refuse to do agreed value since they were daily drivers. I also tested this with some newer cars and had my friends ask about there cars and found it to be generally true across the board in WA. The WA tax assessment was somewhere south of $17k in 1/22, but I didn't ask my insurance their value this time.
Lets hope your ME valuation is much higher. I meant no disrespect in my post, nor was I trying to be rude, I realize your car is worth more than $20k, I was simply just trying to emphasize the realities of insurance and that your probably have an uphill battle ahead of you. I know way too many people who have been screwed by insurance, and I hope you get a fair deal out of this and aren't one of them. Also, sorry that you are having to go through two insurance claims on two P cars at the same time, that is some bad luck man. Glad you are okay though.
Well said, I hear you and thank you. State tax assessments eh...more fun. No sales tax here in Oregon thank god.
Based on another thread with a 996TT rennlister, I'm optimistic that the market and the sheer volume of cars being crashed has insurance companies too busy to haggle.
This is a third this year actually, a vandal smashed my passenger side window in my CTT, the glass scratched the paint and cut the seats and door card. Sunset porsche let it sit for 2 months w/o touching it and so the insurance company bought a battery too. $8k. The door card was $2600 alone.
The boxster is actually a miracle, I stored it outside with an outdoor cover on it, this was the beginning of November. Took the cover off mid February and bubbles had formed on any semi-flat surface underneath the clear coat. I'm paying the extra for the bumpers and the mirrors and added the aero bumper in the front.
Now I'm really counting my blessings.
My guess is that it's totaled. My wife was T-boned by a guy who ran right through a stop sign in our 2001 Carrera 4, this was around 2005, so it was only a few years old and the damage didn't look that bad, but they still totaled it. Fortunately she was fine. I think they gave me about $52k back then. Very sorry for your loss.
I really feel for oregondave. I've been thinking for awhile about getting an Agreed Value policy (e.g., Hagerty) as valuations for non-classic car insurance aren't in line with the market. I already have a policy for my 66' K-code Mustang....and this unfortunate incident is going to get me off my rear end and look into it for my 996 Targa. Hang in there!
Sorry to see this.
If it is or isn�t totaled depends on what value your insurance provider puts on the car.
There�s a big difference between 70% of 20K and 40K.
It will be interesting to see if being a limited edition and your stack of receipts help.
Do you have any recent comparable sales with similar mileage?
Good luck
My daughter had an accident this past Saturday afternoon.
Totaled the CPO Honda HR-V I bought her for graduation around a year and a half ago.
It was bad and I�m just glad she was able to walk out of the ER later that night.
That is the only thing that really matters.
The car was totaled based on 2 pictures sent from the scene,(every airbag deployed) no adjuster needed.
BUT after 18 months and 15K miles it was worth 6k more than I paid for it.
Wow, I hate that for you. Been close a few times and if you drive enough there is always a chance this might happen. As far as the insurance company is concerned I definitely think it�s totaled unfortunately�
100% agree with being motivated to get an agreed value policy.
I doubt my current insurance company would reimburse me for the certified IMS Solution installation, OEM clutch, flywheel, rms, AOS, plugs, coil packs, timing chain tensioners, fuel injectors, water pump, battery, low temp thermostat, rollers, tensioner, etc. all done in the last year.
Very sorry to read about your accident. It sounds like you have put a lot of time, energy and money into it. +1 on agreed value policies for 911's like this. I'm sure your insurance company will want to total, Maybe look at buying back and parting it out if the price isn't too high. Parting is a whole lot of work, tho, if you do more than the basic easy-to-remove stuff. But, its a good thing you were driving a 996, it allowed you to walk away from the accident. Solid, safe vehicles.
Bummer
Did PSM attempt to intervene? Def interested in what the insurance thinks its worth, its clearly a cut above your everyday c2/c4. Passenger side doesn't look great, but maybe the door itself took the worst of it, if the airbags had deployed the math would be even worse. I'm surprised the airbags didn't go off actually, all though it sounds like you are OK so I guess the computer's judgement was correct, would love to know some actual specifics about when airbags should fire.
I turned the PSM off at the stop light right before I went after that corner into the on ramp.
Never hurt me before, I think it would have saved me here. Also not trying to correct might have helped, but it happened so f�ing fast it was instinct.
The car is almost 23 years old so solid chance they�ll never go off? These are crazy safe cars other than the fact they CAN bite you with the weight being in the rear. I don�t have a hint of whiplash, it�s been 48 hours.
Back in the early 80's I had a 1969 912. The 1969's had the extended wheelbase (to help combat rear weight bias) and the 912's 4-cylincer 1.6 was much lighter than the 911 engines. I never really expected or had any issues with rear weight bias until one time I was going around an "S" in the road that I've driven a million times because it was right near my house. I wasn't going slow, but I wasn't going fast either, and I was shocked when the rear-end suddenly came out at pretty modest speed. I was able to recover it, but I was so shocked I couldn't even remember what I did at the time to cause it. I think I took my foot off the throttle as I was entering the turn, but I don't really remember. Of course, the 996 tires have much more grip than my 912, but physics is physics, and the rear weight bias can bite under the right circumstances.
I wonder if I can keep the roof box and even the after market stereo equipment without it impacting the loss payout? It has the 996 specific sub box that fits behind the back seats (yes I know how dumb it was to put money into that in a 996).
I would make a list of items you would like off you car and discuss with you insurance company. When my '83 was totaled my insurance company let me take a few items. I later bought the car and sold it to my mechanic who used it as a parts car.
Its probably totaled, maybe you hit oil or diesel. That happened to me in a rental sportscar a few weeks ago very sudden and freaked me out as I wasn't driving hard...
I wonder, the pavement looked clean but it�s not like I was out in traffic taking a good look. F�ing nuts, the car just decided to go backwards in a split second.
Dave, sorry to see what happened. It could have been alot of things on the ground including radiator fluid. The tub may be fine but the cost of the parts may be enough for the insurance company to total it. I had a 2003 Audi S8 (Ronin) which to this day was my all time favorite sedan that was totaled by the insurance company after an accident even though it was straight, because of it being all aluminum and the insurance company concerned the costs would get out if hand. I regret not buying the car back from them.
But I did learn a huge lesson which was some car insurance companies will insure the car for a predetermined value and most will only insure for the book value. My 996 is now insured thru Porsche insurance for a stated value. Hagerty will do the same. Liberty advertises replacement value.
Let's keep our fingers crossed that your insurance company will fix it.
Since when does insurance companies use BAT as a viable car value? I think you�re going to be very upset when they come back to you with their value. Their argument is always that your value is subjective bc it�s of �personal taste.� This is also going to come from having basic run of the mill insurance. Progressive undervalued my very rare sand yellow 958S when it was on the line of being totaled.
if they value it low then get ready to start yanking all of your parts and putting the stock stuff back on 👍🏼
Great info! I�ll have to check that out. I�m would assume that it�s going to vary state being that laws are different from state to state for insurance companies to follow. I�ll be following this thread to see the outcome of this for future knowledge 👍🏼
best of luck to the owner
im fairly optimistic. Like I said, my boxster s needed a near total bare metal respray and an interior detail because my outdoor car cover didn�t protect it from the elements. $9k total, 100k mile boxster s. They covered it without blinking. That tells me they�re not using KBB for total loss valuations.
Ugh that's heartbreaking. Sorry for your loss. I called Geico the other day to talk about an agreed value policy, the operation I got through with seemed kind of clueless. I was told because I live in nc and the car is a 2001 that it was classic status, but that's contrary to what NC dot website says .. Anyway it's not about me.
@oregondave
will you let us know how you get on? Again, it's tragic, and shows that even the most experienced can get dinged. Public roads are not even the tiniest bit forgiving when the application of horsepower overcomes adhesion. You might have, likely did, hit a greasy patch, that's all it takes. I'm so glad you are ok and that no one was hurt, it could have been far worse. All that investment, the insurance company better make good. Fingers crossed for you. I've only had my base C2 since late January, have about 18k in receipts, and plans for more refreshing that will cost far more than what's been spent. I better slow down until I figure out insurance. Spending I mean. I'm pretty careful as a driver, 58 yrs old means I'm pretty 🐔💩. I would like to say wise but we all know that's not true.
Best wishes to you.
Good luck, if i may offer a suggestion on how to negotiate your loss with the assumption that it is totaled as most think here.
1. wait for their first offer.
2. disagree siting all the reasons you have stated list everything you have done, service, tires, improvements (very important to be thorough)
3. see what value the adjuster attributes to your list of updates and improvements and or the comps from BAT.
4. you will likely get a small increase in the number based on the comps you provide.
5. i suggest strongly you ask for it in written format that you are not getting any extra for your improvements.
6. BIG - once they have confirmed you are getting nothing or very little for the stuff you have added you can then state you will undo and take the things which they are not giving you any value for in the settlement.
7. Bear in mind you cant remove your updated seats with out it affecting your settlement unless you replace with like kind this is true for any items like wheels for example if you have a crappy set to put on you might get away with it.
we have a small fleet of work vehicles and i have dealt with this a few times and sometimes i have been successful in increasing the number other times iv'e gotten nowhere, the adjuster makes a big difference,
The buy back - this depends on the two numbers they give you (payout and buyback) as to whether it makes sense, but you have to have storage while you disassemble and keep for your next 996 or sell onto forum members..
don't forget a used 996 engine that works with a known IMS service history and no issues is worth good money.. as is the trans ect ect
sometimes its just to painful to walk past it everyday and life doesn't line up to let you do it.
Story - back in 2016 i had my Brand New Tri-Coat ivory Challenger Hellcat with Brass monkey wheels sitting in my Garage with 1,410 miles on it i think i had paid three notes, i was out of town when the big rain event happened in South Louisiana, it was a week prior to Hurricane Mathew that went through Florida, we got about 3 feet of water in the car and house, it was totaled, i helped the guy push it out into the road and watched him winch it onto the wrecker and drive away. ( insurance was not kind and paid me $7000 less then i paid and that included TT&L, so i likely lost $10k in 3 months, some people suggested to me i should have bought it back, that was not feasible as i didn't have a house to live in let along a place to store a car, oh and my place of work flooded also so as one of the management team i had to head up the work recovery also, (no sympathy required) sometimes you just have to move on.
Good luck my friend.
thanks buddy. Parking a wrecked car at my house will be a tough proposition but I could probably make it work. Sorry you went through that, what a true f�ing nightmare.
Silver lining, we did some upgrades in the house, we got newer better equipment at work, and we didn't replace a lot of stuff we didn't need, i mean how many lace doilies can a guy use when doing an oil change... Onward!!!
How did you get insurance to cover that? Can you expand on what you mean by the elements? Was it a hail storm or something if that nature? Or was
it wind flapping that caused the cover to destroy the paint? Very curious how you got them to cover this incident.
thanks
the porsche silverguard outdoor car cover did NOTHING. Dirt and moisture went through it like it wasn't there. The moisture was trapped on the surface of the paint for several weeks. This literally caused the clear coat to lift in little bubbles all over the surface of the car. I certainly didn't want or expect that to happen! They saw similar examples of outdoor car covers simply not delivering as promised online and decided to cover the paint damage. That simple.
Seeing dead Porsches makes me sad. Especially your 996. Another glorious, soon to be, collectible bit the dust. It seems hitting/getting hit in the front or rear is better than the side with these tub style "frames". I'm guessing the insurance isn't going to give you what that car is really worth. At least you're unhurt.
Back in the 80's a friend of mine had a '72 911t that he just spent a ton of money painting from white to red, in many coats of lacquer (that was a "thing" at the time) and he put one of those leather/vinyl bras on the front. When he removed the bra a few months later, the paint underneath was pink, due to trapped humidity in Florida heat. I think it actually went back to red after a few weeks uncovered, though it was so long ago I don't remember exactly.
I also had a similar issue in the '90's with my 1974 911s, which was under a cover in Florida heat for weeks when I was traveling. When I took off the cover, it had pink paint in a few areas. Those pink areas didn't reverse themselves and my brother repainted those areas for a perfect match.
That's my only experience with covers in heat/humidity, and it wasn't great
. I did use a cover occasionally on a different car in the garage, and there were no issues with that.
I'd like to emphasize these points. I had a totaled 968 some years ago (son drove it into a ditch). And I gathered up all of the receipts for service and parts and gave them to adjuster. Got me another 25% on the totaled value. So get ALL of the receipts ready.
And yes we bought the car back from insurance. Totaled value was around $12.5K, we bought it back for around $1,450, fixed it for $5,000 and drove it for another 11 years. But the 968 is way, way easier to work on than a 996.
Unfortunately I suspect that you�re about to find out how big of a scam the insurance industry is, unless you have an Agreed Value policy. They will fight you tooth and nail on every penny. Been there, done that.
I absolutely hope that you fare better than most do in this type of situation. Sorry for your loss and glad that you weren�t hurt.
Consider getting an attorney.
You won't know until the insurance company adjuster gets done, but the offer the insurance company presents is just that, an offer.
Humbling experience, I suspect.
I would like to add something, because I think I do know what happened�it's the second skid that got you.
Beside getting too frisky on public streets
, you did what most of us would/have done once the back end steps out, you jerked the wheel the other way. Your intentions were good, but, as you said, you
over corrected
. Once you did that it was a lost cause. All you can do at that point is "put both feet in (clutch and brake)" and try/hope to minimize the damage.
Next time, and I hope for you that there will be, take your car to an autocross. Get an instructor and learn the dynamics of your car in a safe space. It's all about being smooth and vehicle balance. Not only will you have a blast, but you will begin to learn the muscle memory to avoid turning a bad situation into a catastrophic situation.
Best of luck, Dave.
Also to aid yourself get at least a dozen listings of sold cars in your group focus on cars sold in a 500 mile radius this will give them an idea of actual selling prices
It takes a lot of practice to get it down, but if you like to drive, it is worth the effort. It will make you a better driver and it will make what you drive, wherever you drive, much more enjoyable�let alone safer.
That has not been my experience. Pretty much the opposite in fact. I have had the misfortune to total 2 cars in the past few years and each time I was able to negotiate a higher payout due to mods on the cars. In one case I even got a bump for having had a recent comprehensive service done.
I think a lot of this type stuff varies by state, as the laws can be so different. Like I don't know if it is still true, but I know for a long time in WA your insurance company had the right, and always exercised it, to not reimburse/cover any modifications made to the car that were not disclosed to the insurance company, and if you disclosed mods they hiked your insurance rate up often excessively, so it was a gamble which way you wanted to go.
initial first glance quote from precision was $18k, this was prior to any tear down. I sent the adjuster my lengthy list of recent upgrades and maintenance, he�s a great guy, handled my vandalized 955 CTT and didn�t balk at covering $8k+ in new interior leather, glass, paint and a new battery.
It�s pretty clear the cost to repair it is going to approach $30k, and Precision is confident it can be repaired, but I think the value won�t support that. Adjuster is working with appraisal service to get accurate valuation. Waiting with baited breath and hopeful this will turn out much like if I had put it on the market. More to come.
Update: they offered me $30k and i can keep the aftermarket stereo equipment and the exhaust tips.
Then I saw that the comps aren't even MEs.
I'm hoping he'll go back to the valuation on this. Otherwise I have to get an appraisal and hope that an arbitrator sides with my appraiser.
^^^ Seeing as what�s been happening to valuations lately (of all used cars in general, but more specifically to 996�s). I think you�ve got a good shot at getting it fixed (but only if the frame/unibody isn�t bent - that�s usually a total loss scenario). Good Luck!
I've been thinking that all along. Yes the car is technically totaled from an insurance standpoint, but body shops have straightening racks for a reason. I'm not sure what I would do in the OP's case but I would definitely be looking into resurrecting the car for some purpose.
Update: they�re going to resubmit the valuation based on my comps from BAT, I�m hoping that gets it up to 32-33k; again they didn�t use MEs as comps initially. On my way to pull the stereo parts and fabspeed tips. The car and it�s gorgeous interior will end up at auction.
Hopefully you settled on a fair market value before the insurance company took possession of the car.
You should never release a total loss until you�ve reached a price.
I think I saw it there today. I was actually curious about another MY99 I saw there (no picture yet). After looking further it does appear that for $200 the public can register and bid (the auction date for that one in at the end of Nov), but I still have to figure out how an inspection is done, if at all possible.
yep I�m not dumb man, they upped the offer to $31.2k yesterday, I�ve got another $2k in parts I pulled off so walking away at just over $33k. I think it was worth $35-36k but this is acceptable, it did have 110k miles.
Hopefully you're getting another 996. I know from experience and I mentioned this earlier, that crashing a car is hard on your ego for a long time, PTSD even? But here's your daily affirmation... You're a good person. Better than most (you drive a Porsche). You're worth it, and damn it you deserve it. So reward yourself. No one else will!
Get out there and get those on ramps. Just don't lift. Easy to say and hard to do. So get some hpde training for yourself as well. You're worth it!
LMAO Awesome man, thanks. Gonna stick with the Boxster S and the CTT for a while. Boxster S just got full respray, rebuilt gearbox and aero kit bumper, it's prime roadster time in the PNW, I'll post some pics if anyone is interested - new Guards Red is something else.
Great advice on the HPDE btw...definitely will if I ever get back into a rear engine car again.
he should have been!
old thread revival�I got sick of dealing with Craigslist douches and just posted the Stealthbox and amp from my stereo system on the marketplace. Will also post the rack system (not the box) and the 997 shifter shortly.
someone bought her and put the motor in his car a few months ago, I almost bought back my gorgeous steering wheel from him. He�s got the head unit! And those f�ing seats�.goddamn it!
to all of you who were so kind to me in the aftermath of this, thanks again.
