Nearly pulled the trigger on a Boxster today...but... - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Boxster virgin here, although I have looked at a few cars now. I'm looking for a good 986, ideally early facelift/clear lights, 60k max mileage, 2.7 manual. I saw one today that did look very honest. Good wheels/colour/interior combo, with a few things ticked on the spec wish list like heated seats. Having spent a few week researching it I checked the hood, checked for puddles, brake discs, mayonnaise, white smoke etc. However when I drove it two things struck me. Firstly, there's a slight judder if you feed the clutch in very slowly in 1st gear. It felt light enough, and it wouldn't really pull away in 3rd gear, so it can't be that worn, but it did trigger a few alarm bells. TBH, in normal "pull away smartly" mode you I didn't really notice it, but there defintely was a judder just feeding it in slowly. Second, there was a humming/grumbling sound, which sounded like a wheel bearing. I couldn't totally be certain of the exact circumstances, but it seemed to be about 50mph on the over-run, although in a lower gear/more revs situation it didn't seem as bad...although whether that was just due to the increased engine noise and engine braking acting on the wheels, I wouldn't like to say, or for that matter if it was possibly engine related. Shame, as the rest of the car was good. Thoughts? Haggle? Get them to fix it? Run away?

Porsche virgin here, but from reading your post I wouldn't go for it. Hold out, and the right car will come along eventually. You'd be gutted if something more serious goes wrong a few months down the line, these aren't minor snags you've noticed either Good luck

Are we talking about a 60K miles car here?? Really!! You could be looking for a while!!

Binksboy said: Are we talking about a 60K miles car here?? Really!! You could be looking for a while!! If you mean will I find a 60k car without problems, then I don't know, hence me asking the question. If you mean will I find a 12 year old car with 60k on it then yes, there are loads, I've looked at 3 today...

in exactly the same boat here, what sort of budget are you working to if you don't mind me asking?

I'd agree that it'd be much better to concentrate on condition than the number on the odometer, which will serve mainly to drive the price you pay higher, without necessarily meaning you'll get a better car (they are nearly all at least 10 years old after all and can have had a very varied life irrespective of mileage). The clutch symptoms you describe sound like a non-issue - I could fix it for you in under 5 minutes. It sounds like it's got some friction material pick-up on the flywheel that just needs burning off. Drive it down the road @ 30mph in 4th, dip the clutch, rev it hard, let the clutch out again so it slips, but not for long (you don't want to wreck the clutch), and that should do the trick - do it 2 or 3 times if needed. The wheel bearing noise could be just that or could be the diff bearing - it would need diagnosing properly by a specialist. If they were the only issues on the car then try to sort the clutch in the way I suggested and get a specialist inspect it fully, including the noise you've found, and go from there - if it's otherwise exactly what you want then to write it off without getting it checked would seem foolish, it could be a long time before you find another (which may have other issues). Good luck.

Firstly may help if you give us your ideal spec. 986 2.7 (ideally Facelift) Preferred colours (exterior/interior)? Mileage (ideally up to 60k) Manual? Any other preferences? Price? You might find you're better looking at the Boxster S as well as it will probably give you a larger pool of cars (due to the number of 3.2 S sold), you get some extras and the prices don't seem much different. I'd definitely get a specialist to check it. Spending £200-300 could save you time and £££ in the long term.

g7jhp said: Firstly may help if you give us your ideal spec. 986 2.7 (ideally Facelift) Preferred colours (exterior/interior)? Mileage (ideally up to 60k) Manual? Any other preferences? Price? You might find you're better looking at the Boxster S as well as it will probably give you a larger pool of cars (due to the number of 3.2 S sold), you get some extras and the prices don't seem much different. I'd definitely get a specialist to check it. Spending £200-300 could save you time and £££ in the long term. Just as an example: Facelift (2004) 3.2 S, 48k miles, £8.5k Facelift (2004) 2.7, 48k miles, £8.7k

I was looking for a 2.7 2004 986 in January and as has been said changed to the 3.2 S as there seemed more and prices were similar. In the end having seen the 987 updates I spent an extra £1000 and got a 2.7 987.1 - but depends what you really want it for. Personally it came down to who was selling as much as the car - a good independent or a small dealer that knew what they were doing with a decent warranty were the only place I would buy from. Plenty are for sale at dealers that only sell £5-10k cars - but are they likely to prepare/service etc a Porsche ? Anyway good luck with the search. You will find the right one. D

Guys Thanks for the tips. Ideally I'm looking to spend £7k-£8k, so I know I might be looking for a while, but I'm sure the right car will come up. Ideally I want a 2.7 manual facelift car, in black or silver, black hood, black heated leather, but I'm not too fussed about any of this if the car is right. The car I looked at yesterday was apparently "mid facelift", ie plastic rear window but clear lights. I didn't think there was such a thing? Cmoose, I've read all of your input on the "Poverty Pork" thread however there is a lot to take in! Are you basically saying that an "amber lensed" car circa 2002 has a better IMS than a later car, say 2004? What are the cutoff points?

thegoose said: The clutch symptoms you describe sound like a non-issue - I could fix it for you in under 5 minutes. Genuine question, if that's the case why wouldn't the dealer fix that before a potential customer came to look at the car? Personally I think the OP should spend a couple if extra grand and get a newer 987, but it ain't my cash! Gone on OP, extend the budget!

Hard-Drive said: It felt light enough, and it wouldn't really pull away in 3rd gear...... !!!!! I've got a manual 981 Boxster S and it will barely pull away in 2nd gear, let alone 3rd! Bear in mind I have the higher torque engine too. I think trying to pull away in 3rd is asking far too much of a 2.7

Ozzie Osmond said: !!!!! I've got a manual 981 Boxster S and it will barely pull away in 2nd gear, let alone 3rd! Bear in mind I have the higher torque engine too. I think trying to pull away in 3rd is asking far too much of a 2.7 Erm...you miss my point. If the car pulls away in 3rd gear that's the sign if a worn and slipping clutch. It's supposed to stall...

foliedouce said: thegoose said: The clutch symptoms you describe sound like a non-issue - I could fix it for you in under 5 minutes. Genuine question, if that's the case why wouldn't the dealer fix that before a potential customer came to look at the car? If it was me I would but it depends whether the dealer has a) noticed the issue b)knows what the symptoms are indicative of and c) knows how to rectify it the way I described.

Stir Hornets nest time! I got a 2003 3.2S TIP a couple of years back now. It was a bargain, with 73,000 on the clock and a very loud rattle when cold (exhaust heat sheild), that I think worried the previous owner who paid £14k 2 years earlier. I paid half that. My thoughts are very low milage car will be more likely to have problems than ones used regulaly. So I avoided cars with silly low milage - 12K to 20K at similar age and 50% more expensive. However, mine has had 3 of the wheel bearings replaced since I got mine. Indicator snapped internally, so whole pod needed changing (4 stalk). Discs and pads in that time. IMS Bearing? Well she is just coming up to 102,000 miles now and as sweet as the day I bought it and regularly sees 6-7 k on the tacho and that S exhaust changes note just at the right time! Great cars, get one!

anonymous said: [redacted] My 02 built in late Oct. 2001 was on the lift - years ago -- for an RMS leak with its tranny out and I spotted the IMS end flange. Its the shallow one, signaling it has a dual row bearing. 'course, an engine rebuilder mentioned that he has come across some engines with the shallow dual row flange with a single row bearing. Sigh. All I know is he says the 2.7l engine is a very good engine, he seldom sees them in. And mine has over 277K miles on it, original bearing (how ever many rows it has) and all.

Hard-Drive said: Boxster virgin here, although I have looked at a few cars now. I'm looking for a good 986, ideally early facelift/clear lights, 60k max mileage, 2.7 manual. I saw one today that did look very honest. Good wheels/colour/interior combo, with a few things ticked on the spec wish list like heated seats. Having spent a few week researching it I checked the hood, checked for puddles, brake discs, mayonnaise, white smoke etc. However when I drove it two things struck me. Firstly, there's a slight judder if you feed the clutch in very slowly in 1st gear. It felt light enough, and it wouldn't really pull away in 3rd gear, so it can't be that worn, but it did trigger a few alarm bells. TBH, in normal "pull away smartly" mode you I didn't really notice it, but there defintely was a judder just feeding it in slowly. Second, there was a humming/grumbling sound, which sounded like a wheel bearing. I couldn't totally be certain of the exact circumstances, but it seemed to be about 50mph on the over-run, although in a lower gear/more revs situation it didn't seem as bad...although whether that was just due to the increased engine noise and engine braking acting on the wheels, I wouldn't like to say, or for that matter if it was possibly engine related. Shame, as the rest of the car was good. Thoughts? Haggle? Get them to fix it? Run away? My 02 Boxster's clutch was shuddering upon take off from stop and shifting cold was more difficult and even warmed up the gears were grinding a bit like I wasn't pushing the clutch in far enough. Figured that at 277K miles the original clutch was about done for. But talked to the service manager and he looked up the last time I had the clutch (and brake) fluid flush and bled and found it was about 2.5 years ago. Had the car in for this -- $179 -- and the judder is gone and shifting is without any drama at all. Even cold I can select a gear without any issues. As for the wheel bearing that's not the end of the world if that is what it is. Cost my under $500 to have a noisy rear one replaced at around 80/90K miles. The replacement has nearly 200K miles and is quiet yet. The other 3 are quiet and have 277K miles on them. If you want see if you can buy the car with an adjustment to the price to cover a new clutch/flywheel and wheel bearing. If you can then have the clutch/brake fluid flshed/bled. If that helps win! If not then have the clutch done. While the car's in the shop for the flush/bleed have the noisy bearing replaced. All of course assuming you are sure the car is otherwise in good shape and worth owning.

Thegoose...I went to have a look at another at a mainstream (but non Porsche) dealer yesterday. If I'm honest, it was well out of price range, but pretty much flawless and in the most superb spec. However it had exactly the same clutch judder symptom. I didn't drive it, but the sales guy did. I could feel the same judder through my seat...I told him your little trick. It worked perfectly and he looked at me with his mouth on his lap like I was some kind of Porsche mechanical guru. I 'fessed up but that is a great thing to know for further viewings

Hard-Drive said: Thegoose...I went to have a look at another at a mainstream (but non Porsche) dealer yesterday. If I'm honest, it was well out of price range, but pretty much flawless and in the most superb spec. However it had exactly the same clutch judder symptom. I didn't drive it, but the sales guy did. I could feel the same judder through my seat...I told him your little trick. It worked perfectly and he looked at me with his mouth on his lap like I was some kind of Porsche mechanical guru. I 'fessed up but that is a great thing to know for further viewings And there I go helping destroy my advantage over less knowledgeable dealers Seriously though, you're welcome although I can't take all the credit. It's something I was told about by Mike at Sports and Classic, an ex-girlfriend having had a similar problem with a BMW 320i convertible that she took in to BMW under warranty for. They weren't great to deal with, saying if it was a worn clutch she'd have to pay up, and sign to say so before they'd even look at it. Anyway, under warranty they replaced the clutch, flywheel AND THE GEARBOX. It solved the problem, only for it to return a few months later - the trick Mike then told me about when I discussed it with him worked perfectly. If only a BMW technician had done it it would have saved BMW warranty a small fortune (when it was 3 years old and needed an MOT I watched it on the ramp to make sure the gearbox was indeed new, and it was). I must confess I tried this trick on a 148,000 mile 320d a couple of years ago and managed to burn out the clutch, but it was clearly borderline worn out beforehand - it wasn't the end of the world at £300 to replace and drove better afterwards - taking into account the number of times I've done it successfully on balance it's worth doing it where the judder exists.

Hard-Drive said: Erm...you miss my point. ... OK, sorry. Hard-Drive said: If the car pulls away in 3rd gear that's the sign if a worn and slipping clutch. It's supposed to stall... Most cars I've owned before will easily pull away in 2nd and it can be done with care in 3rd. Maybe I've had good clutches. One common "clutch slip" test is to have a car moving very slowly in high gear and then put your foot flat on the accelerator. As the engine gradually speeds up it will produce very high torque at about 2,000 rpm at which point a worn clutch will slip.

Ozzie Osmond said: Most cars I've owned before will easily pull away in 2nd and it can be done with care in 3rd. Maybe I've had good clutches. One common "clutch slip" test is to have a car moving very slowly in high gear and then put your foot flat on the accelerator. As the engine gradually speeds up it will produce very high torque at about 2,000 rpm at which point a worn clutch will slip. Been doing this since the 1980s when test driving cars (about 25 mph in 3rd and then floor it if in a built up area), but I always try to do it going up a steep hill as well to put maximum possible weight on the drivetrain. A clutch that just only just slips will actually still last fine for several thousand miles if driven gently, but it's a good bargaining point.