How to keep the engine cool / protect it during track days/driver training events

I’ve heard from several people that 996 engines – except for GT3 and turbo engines – cannot survive hard track use. With street tires, it’s OK, they say, but not with semi-slicks like Pilot Cups. Too much grip means oil starvation. I’ve also noted that many on this forum have invested in keeping their engines cool, e.g. with a third radiator. Our engines can apparently have big heat issues. And some suggest that oil starvation is related to heat: Hot Oil might foam up, stopping circulation to parts of the engine. There are a lot of things which might help with heat in general, and also with oil starvation. I’m wondering – and would appreciate insight into – how well they each work, and what is the minumum one should do. Here’s my list, from small changes to big ones: 1. Just don’t push the car too hard. After every three laps, do a cool down lap. (Worked great for my under-braked previous car.) 2. Switch from 0W-40 to 10W-60. (And switch back for winter.) Several people, at least one quite knowledgeable, have suggested this. 4. Use a special oil. One brand I remember hearing off is Joe Gibbs, I think; I believe there are others. This surprises me a bit. I know small companies often make better products than big ones, but it still seems to me counter intuitive that a small oil producer even most petrol heads has never heard of will make better oil than Mobile or Castrol. If so, and if Porsches have a problem which better oil would solve, wouldn’t Porsche recommend it? Indeed, wouldn’t Porsche use it at Le Mans, and Mecerdes in Formula 1? Maybe what the big oil makers provide to the race teams is better than what they sell to us, but then again, if they can make something better, why wouldn’t they market it to the public at a premium price? All that being said though, I don’t really know. 5. Evans waterless coolant. This is recommended for Porsches by RPM Motorsports in the UK, maybe others too. The idea is that when your engine is hot, even if the radiator fluid doesn’t boil over, pockets of it, in remote parts of the engine, can. And once this happens, the water vapor just sits there, blocking the flow of coolant to those locations. Until boom, time to fix/replace the engine. But this waterless coolant boils a much higher temperature, so problem solved, apparently. Installing the necessary hardware seems to cost a bit over $500, if memory serves. 6. Replace the engine lid and the moveable spoiler with something that directs more air to the engine. Perhaps a GT3 style lid & wing. Or would any of the aftermarket duck tails similar to the 997 GTS's help? 7. Replace the rear bumper. C4S and Turbo style bumpers have big vents behind the wheels, though what is vented here? Heat from the muffler/silencer? If so, does that help much? GT3 rear bumpers also have a vent, though is it for brake heat? (Even if the heat benefit is small, I’m potentially interested in this as some aftermarket immitation C4S and GT3 bumpers claim to reduce weight at the rear.) 8. Replace the front bumper. C4S and 40th Anniversairy edition style bumpers (which are basically the same) direct a lot more air to the radiators – with the result that while X51 engines need three radiators, they only need two on C4Ss and 40 AEs. GT3 bumpers too? Or aerokit bumpers? (Or are these the same as GT3 bumpers?). But surely these bumpers also bring extra drag? 9. Third radiator. This obviously helps. Is it enough alone? And is it necessary, if I choose some of the other steps/changes? I’d prefer not to add weight, even if the front is not the worst place to add it. 10. Modified oil sump &/or pump? I’ve seen a kit online which was designed for this purpose – but it’s no longer available … . Any thoughts on how well each work, what’s a good combination, etc., would be greatly appreciated!

The car is not intended for track use, so in doing so you are using it in a way that brings with it risk. If you insist on using the car on the track the sky is the limit as to what you can do to improve the chances the car will not suffer any serious issues due to oiling or insufficient cooling or some combination. It should be obvious but before any mods are done the car should be in tip top shape. If the cooling system has a small leak it makes no sense to fit a 3rd radiator until this is fixed. If one insists on showing up at the track with heavily diluted oil, in that condition from say short trips to and from the grocery store, there is no real benefit to fitting a deeper sump pan. Fresh oil of the proper viscosity is of course very important. 10w-60 could be too viscous. I was always told that the viscosity of the oil to use depends upon the clearances the engine has. If one wants to build a "loose" engine then a heavier oil is probably required. These engines are intended for street use and as such have pretty tight clearances. A "tight" engine is quieter, less polluting just better for street use. My auto tech buddies advised me to when building an engine for the street to shoot for tighter clearances while still staying within the factory specifications. So putting in 10w-60 could have the engine starved for oil at very high RPMs because the oil while it gets into the bearing courtesy of an oil pump suppling maybe nearly 90PSI of oil pressure it may not get out of the bearing as readily finding it hard to squeeze through the gap between the bearing journal and the bearing shell that may be just a thousandths of an inch or so. Also, the thicker oil may run hotter as considerable heat is generated from the molecular friction of oil in these tight spaces. The thicker oil may run hotter and could run hotter enough to break down. By running a thicker oil one might bring about the very oil break down he's seeking to avoid. If one believes 5w-40 is not "thick" enough there is always 5w-50 oil (not a typo for 15w-50!). In the oiling department fitting a deeper sump and of course a longer oil pick up tube could help. If the engine has an inherent weakness in oiling one or more of its bearings as I think some suggest then you might have to open the engine up and have this shortcoming addressed. If one can run a larger oil cooler or an extra one -- maybe even one for the tranny/diff too -- that can help control oil temperature. For the cooling system it should be leak free. I'd seriously consider a 3rd radiator and perhaps a mod to have the radiator fans start out running at low speed but this can in no way prevent them from running at high speed when commanded by the DME. It would be very nice to have something in the cabin to actually monitor coolant and oil temperature too. BTW, you can choose to make mods that add a bit of weight to buy the some extra margin or you can elect to run light and risk the engine blowing up. Up to you but you can't "win" if you don't finish. Frankly, I doubt the extra weight the 3rd radiator adds will be the biggest factor in lap times. A very simple protection against damaging the engine due to too high coolant or oil temperature is to observe the temperature creeping up and back off or call the session to a halt and let the engine idle for a while in the pits to shed its considerable heat load. I would run anti-freeze and distilled water -- fresh too and not that 6 to 10 year old stuff... -- unless track rules disallow anti-freeze for safety reasons. What keeps the coolant from boiling/flashing to steam is pressure. This means that the engine cooling system must be pressure tight up to whatever pressure the system is intended to experience and tolerate. This requires the radiators, coolant tank, hoses, and coolant hose fittings, and the AOS and the oil/water heat exchangers all are in good shape. Tip top shape. As for aerodynamic mods...Without a wind tunnel to test before and after any aerodynamic mods any aerodynamic mods you make could make things worse. Generally you want to limit the amount of air that goes under the car. This creates a low pressure area under the car and helps keep the car on the track. It also helps air flow through the radiators as the air enters from a high pressure area and exits into a low pressure area. But too much "air dam" at the front of the car could have the front of the car being pushed down and without a decrease in lift or an increase in down force at the rear of the car could have the car's balance out of whack and its handling at speed negatively affected. Also, bigger radiator ducts could have the nose getting light as these could catch air -- as they are intended to do -- but do so in a way that creates lift rather than down force or just being neutral in this regard. The openings at the rear of the Turbo one at each corner of the rear bumper are to let air exit after having flowed through the intercooler. There is also the issue of helping air flow from above the engine compartment down through the compartment and exiting, too. There might be some gain to be had by modifying the engine compartment fan circuit to run the fan all the time. (My 996 Turbo has an extra fuse that when installed has the engine compartment fan running all the time the engine is on. This does not affect the engine compartment fan coming on after the engine has been turned off if the engine compartment temperature climbs too high. I do not know if the 996 N/A models have this extra fuse although I have not heard/read about it so probably not.) Before you make any changes in this area it would be nice to have some instrumentation and to monitor the air temperature in the engine compartment to see if the temperature is running at a too high elevated level. You might be attempting to fix something that doesn't need fixing. The less of this the less chance of making things worse rather than better. Extra "wing" or a whale tail at the rear could have a negative effect on the car's aerodynamics. Too much reduction in lift or too much increase in downforce could have the nose of the car up and it can catch air and the car could get light when you least expect it. Also, air flow may be less optimum through the engine compartment. And so on. Without good data to back up any mods are suspect. What's the saying? Without data anyone can claim success or something like that.

Not sure what level driver you are...not that is makes so much difference. I have been faithfully taking my car to the track for the past 8 years. It is a c-2 no fancy aero aids. Not really needed. My car has been bullet proof. I do run Hoosiers, had a deep sump pan installed with the baffle added. No issues. Yes, your car might smoke a bit on start-up, if that bothers the hell out of you, then go for the Porsche Motorsport AOS, works great. Depending on the miles on your car, I would make sure that the water pump is working in fine condition, too. No need to add a 3rd radiator, or accusump for that matter. I haven't changed out the thermostat, either. Once you really get traveling with serious velocity, you should consider GT3 duct work for the front brakes (Or cup car ducts). Adding more air, rushing over the rotors and calipers helps with braking. I would also recommend a higher temp brake fluid, (i.e, Motul RBF 600, or something as good or better-and your brake fluid needs to be completely flushed, each year, at least in the beginning or your track season), also depending on the number of times that you go and where you go to the track, I would bleed my brake calipers every other event, as the system does not recirculate. There is no real need to go crazy with mods. Put a wing on the rear, now the front needs a lip to keep the car balanced. I would suggest that if you are just getting started, (with PCA) you will need a good helmet and a solid mount fire extinguisher, a great attitude and the ability to listen to your instructor. Once you get into the upper run groups, you can invest more $$ into mods. Safety, should be your first thought...... and find yourself a good indie shop that understands track car set-up. If the addiction grabs you, you might want to consider changing the alignment, corner balancing, etc., depending on how often you will be tracking the car and if you will still be driving it on the street. This whole process can be a slippery slope. The single most important factor is the nut behind the steering wheel. You can mod the hell out of your car, but once you get into it, pro coaching will make the biggest difference in your ability to drive and drive well, not so much the $$ you spend on go fast goodies....if you have any questions feel free to reach out. I would love to help........ Oh, and BTW: have you done anything with the IMS?

Yes, the engine oil also conducts significant amounts of heat and therefore acts as a cooling fluid and lubricant . You mention two interesting issues - 1.foaming and 2.deep sumps. Both subjects have been discussed many times but seldom as related issues. Imho a baffled deep sump with a well designed and intelligently located horizontal baffle will help the foaming,the oil cooling and ensure the oil pickup is always submerged. Some of the old deep sumps had no horizontal baffle or it was placed too low+close to the sump plate. I mention this because if the vertical baffles fail to stop the oil 'climbing' the walls of the sump,then the horizontal baffle is essential. This video from Porsche may be illustrative: 2009 Porsche 911 Engine Running Simulated Nurburgring on Active Dynamometer - YouTube

I would endorse 5w50 synthetic , Evans waterless coolant and the 3rd radiator kit and the deep sump kit. I would add the low temperature thermostat kit which will start flow earlier

I have a question regarding the 3rd radiator. I have noticed sites that sell them that they say it doesn't fit a c4s. Why is that? I'd love to add a 3rd radiator to my c4s.

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What year is your car? Is it a manual or automatic? Tiptronic cars already have a 3rd radiator installed. Maybe c4s already has a 3rd radiator.

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Your c4s may already have larger "turbo" radiators, which may be the reason there is no real need for a 3rd radiator.

It's a 2004 c4s manual ... I haven't actually checked to see if it has a 3rd one. I just find it confusing they say it's not for the c4s on the parts sites online, if it did come standard you still might have to replace it? Unfortunately my car isn't close to me, I'd go check and see.

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That is correct. Even with the X51 engine, you do not get the 3rd radiator since the car has the larger TT rads.

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Interesting. So I've read the C4S / 40AE bumpers allow momre air to reach the radiators and assumed they would therefore help with cooling. But perhaps they don't help wihout TT radiators? Or ... ?

Thanks everyone for the helpful replies! After reading them I'm reminded that the best solution depends not only on the car, but also on the driver and what he wants to do. So maybe I should say a bit about my situation. Although I'm a fairly experienced track driver, I have not yet driven my Porsche on track, I'll probably only do so 2-5 times per year, and I'm not looking to race it or set lap records. My main concern is how it drives on the street (and I like how light it feels, hence my concern about adding weight), but when on track, I don't want to blow the engine. I am considering/making other mods, including safety related, brakes, etc. (Though given what I want to do with the car, I'm starting with Pagids, Castrol SRF, and some brake paint so I can see how much they heat up. Goodrich cables can wait, and a BBK is not on my shortlist.) My questions in this thread are about cooling the engine and also, since changing the front or rear bumpers and engine cover has aero effects, a little bit about aerodynamics too. If I were to change one end, I would of course want to change the other to balance it. How to balance it maybe deserves another thread. Like the other thread I started yesterday: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...mance-etc.html :-) But I thought I should ask how this impacts cooling here. Thanks again!

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So where does one get such a sump?

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What's the AOS? And how does it relate to smoke on start up? Thanks!

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Do you think it's necessary to add all of these? Or would, say, 5w50 and one of the other changes be enough, or ... ?

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First of all, thanks for the wealth of helpful information! I've realized how little I know about oil. So the higher the numbers, the thicker? And isn't the recommended oil 0w-40? Although I only got the idea to use 10w-60 from someone else (who should know what he is talking about), it seemed to make sense to me because it is recommended for some engines that rev higher than ours, so I assumed that if one is keeping the engine at high revs on track, it could work for our engines too. But I gather that while there are plusses to moving in this direction, there are also minuses. How do I know 5w-50 isn't also too high? (Or low?) Has someone somehow really determined that this (or some other oil grade) is the best?

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How to know how hot is too hot? And can one rely on this? Or can the oil or some pocket of coolant overheat before I see too high a reading? Also, I assume that even better than letting the engine idle is to drive around at low engine speeds and low throttle openings, keeping air moving through the radiator and maybe engine bay, no? Well, it works for brakes ... . This is similar to the first option I listed - do a cool down lap after every 3 laps. Can one confidently do a track day before making any mods, provided one observes this rule?

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Do these openings have any cooling function on the C4S? (Or do they just look cool?)

Unless you are planning on driving in Nevada, during the summer heat, or maybe Alabama in the summer heat and humidity, I don't think you will really need to do any mods for additional engine cooling. AOS=air oil separator. Smoking on start-up is a well known/well discussed issue. You can do a search in here and get a wealth of info. As for a deep sump oil pan and proper, X-51 baffle (which you wont' really need until you are running very sticky tires and are really traveling with some serious speed (in the corners, i.e, upper run groups)....I suggest that you check with Suncoast, for parts. As suggested, during the high temps and humidity of mid-late summer, keep an eye on your gauge, also make sure your auxiliary fan is working, too, once you shut the car off. Fresh oil always helps, how often you want to change it, depends on your budget. Otherwise, you should be all set. If you have maintained the car well, and continue to do so, you shouldn't have too do much for the car to run like a champ. Like I said b4, mine had been bulletproof. I would strongly suggest you find a good indie shop, they will be extremely helpful to you. GL and have fun.

I think I might be dumber now having read through this thread...holy cow??

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The C4S is like a lipstick on the pig. It's all about looks. Yes some will say the upgraded brakes are needed to stop the more porkier car and such...

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For a track car I would do them all . For an auto cross car , the oil , Evans coolant and the low temp thermostat would be both prudent and fairly economical, The next upgrade after that, when funds allowed , I would add the deep sump

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Thanks for the help & clarification! Regarding the AOS, does this also help protect the engine, or just avoid smoking on start up?

I think that Macster can give you a much better answer than I on this one. If the AOS picks up a lot of oil, your engine will then be breathing in some oil, hence the smoking on start-up. It does go away, but ingesting oil, in the air intake isn't good for the long haul. I;m sure it will cause other issues, over time.

Ingesting oil is bad for the catalytic converters. Ingesting a LOT of oil can hydrolock piston(s), which is bad for the wallet (although the condition will definitely eliminate your cooling concerns). If you're concerned, Google "motorsport AOS" or ask your Indie.

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Try searching in Rennlist FVD Pedros Garage-Technosump X51 The benchmark -http://lnengineering.com/resources/2014/02/28/what-is-the-story-behind-oil-starvation-with-the-m96m97-engine/

Here's my two cents - don't worry about it, the engine will be fine. I know that the 996 wasn't designed for the track, as someone has mentioned earlier, but that doesn't mean it can't handle the work. Most cars you see out there aside from Radicals and Atoms etc weren't designed for the track. I've driven at more than my share of hot track days (105 degrees at Lime Rock...) and the car never complained. I've only seen the temp gauge go higher than the zero I think one time. And depending on the tire, you should be fine with oil starvation. Anything below a Cup and you're safe as-is. If there's some serious banking on your track, or if you have some stickier tires you may want to get the X51 pan. And don't open the engine cover in the paddock. The fan is in there for a reason. As far as brakes go, the stock rotors have been proven by others to work fine. If you start to get a rumble, then you should probably take an easy lap. Pagids plus some bigger front rotors plus good fluid will be able to handle anything you could conceivably throw at that car. And if that doesn't work, then the GT2 ducts should do the job. Unlike some here, I would be perfectly comfortable driving a bone stock 996 on track with PS2s, Super Sports, Star Specs, etc. The only issue on a hot day is the driver - drink plenty of water!

^ +1!

Before you dump tons of $$$ why don't you take it to the track and evaluate what works and dosen't work for you.

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Great advice. Totally agree!

Just one more comment/question: I was a bit concerned about the comment by McMaster that the 996 wasn't intended for use on the track. Is this the general opinion?

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The 996 was designed primarily as a street car. The GT3 is Porsche's dedicated track car. That doesn't mean that the 996 doesn't make a very fine dual duty street/track car; it just depends on how far you want to take it, and how advanced your driving skills become. For some, the GT3 Cup car is the only solution. But for many (like myself) the 996 is just perfect both on and off track.

Thanks for the response Triple Black. I may do a track day or two each year but am more likely to do some auto crosses, in which case, is there an oil starvation issue?

Country, Don't you have a video of you on the track with your current car? How about post that to the thread. I'm just trying to point out to the OP that if you do some small things, you most likely will be OK. And your example is it. Some people complain that it's not track worthy, it's not really a dry sump system blah, blah, blah, but the car can handle it, especially if you are just getting started. Here's a thread for some thought for the OP. https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...r-arrives.html

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Don't let that stop you. Check out all the scions, civics, mustangs at the track. Neither is anything close to a "track car" but it don't stop them.

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Tons of people autocross their M96-powered 996s and Boxsters. The only one I've personally witnessed having an issue was my own Boxster...when my radiator cap crapped out and I puked coolant all over pregrid. Autocross doesn't generally involve racing tires and high-g corners. Getting beaten by 914's...THAT is something to worry about. The underpowered cars with wicked suspension can be brutal.

Here is a link to one of my track videos - fantastic day at Pacific Raceway with the Pacific Northwest Region PCA. Playing with a couple of 997 GT3's. Playing with GT3's at Pacific Raceway Oct 2014 - YouTube

Nice video! Is that a standard 996/997 or short shifter? Cheers

I have a few videos, let me do some searching and see what I can post. As a few have said in here, the 996, is not designed as a track car.....go to one event and you will see plenty of them. Treat her right, with the help of a good indie shop and she will reward you for a long time. If you are only doing one to two events per year, don't bother messing with a decent basic platform. Save you money, go and drive he like it was engineered to be driven. As for AutoX, I have done a few, not so sure that any mods ( 'cept) maybe tires, will make that much difference. It is all about smoothness balance and weight transfer. You shouldn't be concerned about extra airflow and cooling. Even oil starvation would be low on my list of items to worry about, I wouldn't think that there are long corners with high speeds and sustained g -forces. Nonetheless, we are talking about preventative measures so the deep sump oil pan and baffle would be well worth the investment. My .o2. It is kinda funny when someone shows up at any event, decked to the 9's, all the gear, all the stuff, you know Porsche Motorsport Race Suit, etc., and they are just getting started. I am all for enthusiasm and I am loyal to the brand...I only suggest that anyone show up, learn to "do it" (track or Auto X), speak with a bunch of drivers who have been doing it, get their input and make decisions gradually, you will be better off in the long run and may save quite a few $$$, as some of the items you thought were needed, aren't really going to help........... just sayin' and this is based on years of experience "doing it."

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I was going to let that comment by McMaster go but since you mentioned it .... It's true the 996 was not intended to be a race car or a competition track vehicle in its' base form. Can you take it to a track and have A LOT of fun, yes. For the amateur driver who will go to the track once or maybe twice a year the 996 is not only "track worthy" it's a track BEAST! Is a Honda Civic a track car? No? Well I've seen plenty on the track. Is a Volvo station wagon a track car? No? I've seen them on the track too! Keep it under 120 miles per hour and you'll be fine. The Porsche 996 in base form would not be ready for high banked, high speed racing, or extreme corning g forces. But even those things could be addressed for a fairly reasonable sum when put in context of everything else you would need to spend anyway to perform at that level. The types of vehicles that are track ready out of the showroom cost considerably more to start with, so the price was paid. Take it to the track. If it's an open event with passing and no speed limits BUY TRACK INSURANCE. People do wreck, you could wreck. If it's a "first timer" event with speeds below 100 mph and no passing the chances of wrecking are much lower. YMMV.

....

I did some checking, and I haven't taken any track videos in a while (they are all a few years old, Lime Rock and Watkins Glen). However, a friend of mine in Montreal just posted a little lead-follow @ Circuit Mont Tremblant, this past September. He drives (quite well, too!) a white Cayman with some suspension and exhaust goodies. The best part is one never really gets to see what your own car looks like/sounds like, but his video takes care of that! I will try to dig it out or get the title.......stay tuned. Maybe I will use some video next weekend @ VIR............

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Thanks Dan. My 996 was totally stock when I recorded that video, except for the custom exhaust and ECU tune (well, with a track oriented alignment and sticky tires). The stock shifter lacks a little precision IMO. Still, it's a blast to drive at the limit and it's a great day on the track when you can keep up with or pass a GT3.

Porsche admits that the M96 engine is only good for .8 g's before oil starvation issues arise. Mantissport deep sump solves that problem. Either 1.2 L or a 2L versions are available, ground clearance only lost by 5/8" with the 1.2 L, and another 3/8' with the 2 L version. Both come with windage trays. A 2 L version for 9A1 engines will be available soon. December release.

Here is some real experience. It was preventable for comparatively little. There is a useful "What we learned on the Track" Section to the Forum somewhere. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...s-learned.html

A lot of interesting posts! I'm not sure what to make of it all yet. Some say don't worry, others say change everything. But I've heard too many cautionary tales to go and do 15 laps without worrying. I've no interest in doing laps on street tires, by the way. And I'm likely to go with coilovers soon and am tempted to add sway bars later. So that puts me in the higher risk group. I'm still hoping that basic precautions (new coolant and oil - maybe 5W-50) and doing a cool-down lap every X fast laps (e.g. every 3) will nonetheless keep me safe - though I'm not yet convinced from what I've read so far. If I don't get convinced, then there's another question. As I read more and follow links, I hear more and more about oil starvation, and not so much about overheating. Is this a significant seperate problem on it's own, or only a contributing factor to oil starvation. Or more practically, if I make sufficient mods to protect against oil starvation, should I still worry about keeping the heat down?

Also, a couple of people have said "watch the temperature". What should I watch for? At what temperature should one back off?

I think no one has supported a couple particular mods which I mentioned in the original post: changing the bumpers. So I guess it's not the first thing one would do to protect one's engine from the track. But I'm still wondering if it helps. I've been thinking of starting a thread such as this one since hearing people say "don't use 996s on track". But the reason I finally started it now is that I now need to to do one of the mods mentioned in the original post anyway - I need to replace the front bumper (or to be preceise, the front bumper cover). And I wanted to know if the cooling advantages of the C4S/40AE/Turbo style bumper are great enough to outweigh the disadvantages (extra drag, I presume), given the other ways one can address engine temperature issues. I'm still confused about this. Can anyone confirm that there is/isn't a significant cooling benefit to the C4S/40 AE/Turbo front bumper, or is there only a benefit it one goes for Turbo radiators, as on the C4S? And if there is a significant cooling benefit, is it great enough that one an skip some other precautionary messure, e.g. upgrading the oil sump?

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Interesting read. Thanks for pointing that out.

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If you will be running slicks then I'd suggest doing a mod to prevent oil starvation.

Great - an intelligent thread and balanced. 1. "watch the temperature" - if you've followed other threads there is a debate about where/how to accurately measure temperature if you are trying to respond instantly to a sudden, rapid rise in engine temperature. And the stock temp.sender location seems to be a sub-optimal choice. Some Rennlisters say we get a lagging/low reading from the stock temp sensor location . 2."oil starvation" - and foaming. Whatever you modify and however you drive, the oil pickup must stay submerged to prevent bearing issues. That is easy to say .There are several different products for this issue.Few mention in what specific,extreme their baffles/deep sump work. For example ,one product claims to work on turn 17 at Sebring with sticky tires. That is nice but may be too anecdotal for a serious Track enthusiast. I labor these two points because the cost of failure is so high .Relocating(but where/how?) a temp. sender and fitting an effective sump+baffle is cheap.

@Mikeborden: Hopefully, this works, because you asked for it. Boys n' their toys - September play time between Porsches at LCMT - YouTube This was taken in September @ Mont Tremblant. It will take about 30 seconds before you see my car, as it was shot from inside a friend's Cayman S. I hope you enjoy it. More to come next week?

Mantissport is the orginal oil sump manufacturer which has posted oil pressure trace data from actual race data to back up claims. Posted on Rennlist forums.

I've tracked my c4s several times with no issues. If you are going for sticky tyres, and intend to drive it hard, then there may be other things to think about. Will you need better seats and full harness belts? 911's corner really well, also , will you need to cool your brakes better?. Mechanically, leave it stock until you've tried it, change the oil regularly, I'd use normal oil, but change it after 3000 miles. Leave the front bumper, it's designed to run with the radiators you have, the Turbo and 4S have bigger rads fitted, so if you swap the bumper, you'll need to also swap the rads and ducting to get the best effect.Also, I'd leave the sump standard, it's been designed to be driven very quickly, it can cope with a handful of track excursions. Remember, the Germans love speed, and build amazing fast cars.Yours will cope. If you really want to turn it into a full on track slag, then it's your choice. I'm sure a decent race shop will recommend and fit all the goodies you'd need. it's a very slippery slope once you start.

Here is the link to the Mantis Sport Deep Sump Data: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...baffles-3.html

What Mac said in the first line of his response. To add to it, the M96 NA was not intended for nor ever will be good for track use. The inherent flaws of the original design prevent this. All I can add is OMG and clueless.

I DD my C4S and track it a few times a month. Victory loves preparation and I'd recommend you either do nothing or everything. Not committing across the board (brakes/suspension/cooling/etc.) leads to vulnerabilities. The car stock will handle the track beautifully without overdoing it. Improving any one aspect can lead to issues with others. Here's my list: Engine: LN Dual Row IMS Upgrade LN X51 Deep Oil Sump, Baffle and Pan LN Spin-On Oil Filter Adapter and Magnet Sleeve RMS AOS MAF Sensor and K&N Intake Water Pump Low Temp Thermostat Coils/Plugs/Tubes Alternator Underdrive Pulley and New Belt Function First Motor Mounts GT3 Throttle Body IPD Plenum EVOMS Intake Custom Headers/X-Pipes/Mufflers New Coolant & Lines Drivetrain: New Clutch and Pressure Plate 997 Short Shifter Guibo Agency Power Shift Linkage Reinforced Transmission Mount Brakes EBC Yellow Front Pads EBC Red Rear Pads Zimmerman Front and Rear Rotors Motul6 Super Gold Brake Fluid SS Brake Lines Suspension KW V3 Coilovers Eibach Sway Bars F/R Tarret Endlinks F/R Tarret Monoball Camber Plates GT3 Front Control Arms OEM Tie Rods Adjustable Rear Dogbones and Toe Links Powerflex Bushings All Around F/R Upgraded Thrust Arms F/R Interior Agency Power Roll Cage Recaro SPG XL Recaro Side Mounts Planted Seat Mounts Racequip 6 PT Harnesses Extended Throttle Pedal Momo Monte Carlo Steering Wheel – 350mm Rennsport Hub & Quick Release Valentine One Dension Bluetooth Gateway Cabin Filter Track Mats Radio and AC Trim Bluetooth Adapter Exterior New Front Bumper and Lip Rolled Rear Fenders Tools -Atlas 7000 Scissor Lift installed. Perfect setup for 911s.* This is the LN sump/baffle you want:

That is indeed a nice list of mods. The cost to get a M96 NA proper for track use is hard to swallow for most owners. Looks like your doing it though.

....GT3

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200 degrees is where I stop "pushing it" & go to 8/10ths.

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There is no information about this on LN's site, just a picture. Does "X51" mean it is, or includes, or is based on a Porsche part that comes with the X51 option? Also, I saw somewhere that one also needs to purchase (an) extra pickup point(s) with this, no?

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Interesting. It looks like the one I actually ordered was from FVD - but I know I ordered it from LN because it came with my Spin-Off Filter/Magnetic Sleeve and a few other things. I don't see it on their site currently. FVD Motorsport X51 Oil Pan - $595 from Suncoast $340 here

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Just to clarify, those are two entirely different oil pans so pricing shouldn't really be compared. Only the FVD version needs the pickup point adapter(included) as it is a deep sump.

or the Technosump: http://www.pedrosgarage.com/Site_2/TechnoSump.html

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That only addresses capacity but no improved baffling though.

Or the far better one, mantissport deep sump, 10 years of development, copied but not equealed. With posted race data on Rennlist.

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Yes it does. Technosump call it a "Horizontal Dam" The kit is as follows for $500. Sump Extension (precision engineered aluminum, anodized gold) • Oil pickup extension (precision engineered aluminum, anodized gold) • OEM 987 Plastic Pickup Tubes (quantity = 2) • Extended Hex Bolts (quantity = 15) What it does not have are the s/s vertical baffles and flaps in other kits. • Horizontal Dam (precision engineered, stainless steel) • Baffle Spacers (aluminum, quantity = 3) • Anaerobic Gasket Maker Tube It lacks replacement vertical baffles & their flaps.

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My bad, I just looked at a couple pics only. Should've actually read the page. LOL. This looks to be another good solution(only con being the ground clearance for street vehicles). Has this been track tested by any of the 996 peeps here?

Great question. I love data but practical experience is even better ! Track experience reported is by Pedro of Pedros Garage -who also sells it . The big defect is/was the location of the horizontal dam. I had a debate with Pedro about this and I think they rectified it & changed the instructions. Just call Pedro - super nice guy and a very good engineer. Ask him how the Technosump perofrms on turn 17 at Sebring. You will enjoy the conversation. http://pedrosboard.com/read.php?7,32350,32350 http://pedrosboard.com/read.php?7,38640,38640

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You're right. I just took a quick look, my mistake. Mine is the FVD and required another 1.5 quarts of oil. My local Porsche indy shop that typically installs the LN versions thought it was much better designed and reliable than the plastic baffles they see. 100% of the others require some modifying to fit properly. This was installed in 15 minutes with none.

Don't forget a shield too:

Yes, agreed - the reduction in ground clearance is a concern. Pedro has discussed this too.

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Vandersmith, does the OEM skid plate work with the slightly lower FVD sump pan?

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Thanks for the links. In theory it sounds good. The only thing I didn't really find being analyzed is the anti-foaming properties of the horizontal dam design. In the back of my head, I'm thinking what some of the cons could be for Porsche to have not gone this route. I'm sure they thought about it at one point.

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I can say that I had to modify my skid plate a little by bending some tabs but it fit over the purdy FVD pan.

Foaming Note 987 tubes supplied- post #67 above. Oil pickup will be almost 2" lower than OEM -so hopefully well beneath the foam. A separate thread is required for low-foam oils for the M96.:-). But they are available.

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It does - This isn't a photo of mine. Tomorrow when I put the car on the lift I'll snap some shots. I've heard track debris hit it a few times, has a specific ring to it - which is both reassuring and unsettling

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Thanks! That's showing them! Mike

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Does this mean plastic baffles on the LN version? (Hard to see in pictures if they are plastic.)

Apologies if this is burried in the thread somewhere, but is there a reputable sump/baffle solution that does not lower the bottom of the oil pan? And if so, the natural question is: is it enough to improve baffling, pick up points, etc., and not increase oil capacity? (Yes, I know the OEM skid plate helps. I have one. For a variety of reasons though, I'd prefer not to reduce the space between it and the oil pan.)

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I'd agree that "which oil" should be left to seperate threads. But before I go searching for such threads, have you seen convincing arguments or evidence that such oils really are better than the usual suspects (Mobile & Castrol)? Thanks!

"but is there a reputable sump/baffle solution that does not lower the bottom of the oil pan?" No -I researched this issue carefully. There is a difference in how deep the replacement sump or spacer is. Some are as much as 2 qts+.Others much less. The critical issue in my (non-expert)opinion is the effectiveness of the baffles,not so much the depth of the new sump. Some baffles are leaky or too low. So in extreme G the oil pick-up is no longer submerged. It seems the benchmark is Mantis or FVD ?

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According to Jake ,the answer is "Yes".

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Do you know how much lower the factory X51 pan/baffle kit is? Or how many more quarts? Or is that not a reputable solution? Baffles leaky or too low? (I followed a link in one of the above posts to Patrick Motorsports description of this, but it didn't mention whether it is lower or increases capacity. They do say this alone is not enough, and one should get an accusump - raising the question whether one also needs an accusump with, for instance FVD or Mantis. Or whether perhaps the Accusump alone is enough.) Thanks!

Logically ,I suppose you need input from someone who has tried both Accusump and a deep pan+baffles on the same car,on the same track ? That person would be Pedro .Perhaps others here? Lots of useful info to read in the "Chronicals of Sebring" http://www.pedrosgarage.com/Site_5/C...g,_part_3.html

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X51 oil pan

X51 Baffle kit: http://lnengineering.com/products/ot...deep-sump.html http://www.tarett.com/items/986-987-...srk-detail.htm https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ump-plate.html

Interesting that some are concerned about ground clearance. Not pick to on others deep sumps, but any sump that uses the stock bottom has less ground clearance. The oil pan bottom is 5/8" thick, with the 2L spacers you lose 1" of ground clearance. All 2L sump spacer kits are copy of the Mantissport deep which was designed and produced in 2006.This was developed as we raced the FIRST Cayman S for two years with PCA. Check out Pano issue Sept 2006. With AIM data logging we came up with several versions of Deep Sumps. None have ever provided as Mantisport does, with race data proving the superior performance of the Mantissport deep sump,posted on another Rennlist thread, built in oil dams,better oil control, which one has yet to be"COPIED", Windage tray,"COPIED" by others, solid bottom design,which gives you 5/8" more ground clearance than the "others", Choice of 1.2L or 2L Deep Sumps. Due to the solid bottom design you have one less joint or possible leak vs the spacer deep sumps. 2L Mantissport solid bottom pan is 1/8" thinner than the 2l spacer pans, plus one less joint that could Leak. Hope this clears up some history and misconceptions. DFI engine sump coming soon, We use on track data, shaker post, windtunnel testing data to develop product.

Ernie, thanks for you post! If I may ask a few clarifying questions: 1. How much does ground clearance drop, if at all, with your 1.2 liter sump? 2. DFI? Direct fuel injection, as is 997.2? 3. You wind-tunnel tested the sump? If so, wow! Must be very few in the Porsche modification/tuning business who wind-tunnel test. (Don't suppose you know anything about the lift, drag, and cooling characteristics of the various OEM front and rear bumper, spoiler, wing, and tail options, by the way? :-) )

On the bumper question, I went through an old article in Excellence about the C4S. Seems the C4S bumper sends 8% more air to the radiators. Even assuming all that air made it to the smaller radiators on a C2, I guess that does not make a big difference. If one wants to do something about heat issues, one needs to do more. And if one wants to choose the ideal bumper, drag and lift are probably bigger issues (unless one would consider switching to the larger C4S radiators). (And one should be cautious about a bumper designed to send air to different shaped radiators.)

The comments about the 996 not being appropriate for the track (at least for hpde use) don't make sense to me. I am by no means an authority having only owned my c4s for just under a year.... But I can recall dozens of 996 owners avidly tracking their cars over the years with nnjr pca. My s2 and all 944's also have some starvation issues re: oil... But those are everywhere at the track..... Yep... The more serious drivers have an accusump.... But most don't. My guess is that a well taken care of and prepared stock 996 is just fine for occasional DE weekends.

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Tarett Engineering sells a deep sump kit and baffle. I use it in my 996 track car. http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-...rical/list.htm

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Given the hysteria concerning with just driving a 996, it's easy to see the concern with driving it on a race track! Reading this forum makes you wonder why anyone ever buys one... much less takes it to the track.

1.2 l DEEP SUMP You lose 3/8" of clearance. Yes we know a lot about Aero after 4 years of tunnel time. No, we did not windtunnel the sump, did on shaker post, DFI , is the 997.2 engine 2009 and later.

"The M96 NA was not intended for nor ever will be good for track use. The inherent flaws of the original design prevent this. " (bold added by me) For those of you new to the 996 world, the statement above is 100% patently false. ANY M96 drivetrain can be properly prepared for track use for under $10k. You will be able to drive it all day long at any speed at any g force. People do it every single day. I know of an engine builder who put a M96 engine in a late 80s 911 and kicked the HP up to 1000 !! at the wheels. Yes, M96 engine, 1000 hp at the wheels and it runs all day long. Can you drive a 996 out of the showroom and win the Porsche Mobile 1 Supercup, no you can't. I'll give KrazyK the benefit of the doubt and assume that is what KrazyK means by "track use." Here's a link to a 2002 doing just fine on the track. Over .8 gs and over 100 mph. IT'S A MIRACLE !! Just driving a Porsche 911 (996) around a race track - YouTube

I suppose with enough money any car could be modded enough for track use. Experts and myself included believe that the M96 NA engine was not designed by Porsche for track use. That's why they built GT3's and GT2's. The design flaws certainly back this up. Only a misguided nutjob would take his stock M96 and run it on a race track. I doubt the engine would make it past turn one. And BTW, a 1984 Corvette would pull a full G without $10,000 in mods.

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Do you have a 996 race car? If all you do is read the internet forums I can understand where you get your point of view.

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There's not really any argument here because proof exists. I own a 2002 Porsche 996 that has been driven fast on a race track (Pocono Speedway). I drove it there, drove around the race track, bone stock, and I'm driving it today with 118,000 miles on it. Never had a problem with any aspect of the car. That one example alone proves you can drive a 996 on a track. I mean, let's get real here, my car has a top speed of around 170 mph. You don't think it can handle 110 mph on a track??? Add to that the hundreds if not thousands of other posts and videos of 996 owners posting about their track day experiences. I like corvettes, best bang for the buck, but guess what you have to upgrade the oil and cooling systems too. A 1984 Corvette would NEVER survive hot laps around Pocono Speedway without both oil system and cooling system upgrades, that's a fact. All them from C1 - C4 require upgrades to be used on a track (fast laps). C5 on fair better, but with the high banks on Pocono Raceway even C6 Corvettes require some mods, IF the driver wants to approach top speed on that car. If you keep it under a 110 mph then no upgrades are required. You say "I doubt the engine would make it past turn one." Well you're wrong. Mine did. The one in the video I posted clearly made it past turn one, and all the turns for the next 20 minutes exceeding .8gs on occasion. How do you explain that?

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Your 996 must have a Corvette engine ;-)

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All Porsche are designed for hard driving and that includes tracking them LOL At least you did not include yourself as an "Expert" You are afraid to drive your car around the block without a complete engine rebuild I just did a track weekend 2 weeks ago and there were at least 10 996 from stock to full race car and as many 986 as well. I am not including the 12-15 GT3's. None had any issues on the track. KK, please stop talking out your rectum If you want to comment on changing oil or rebuilding stuff, well yes, you have a lot of experience. As far as other stuff, well......

I think the important lesson here is to actually go to the tracks and asks the veterans there on what works and suggestions. The worst thing you can do is ask here on opinions of bench racers and just have it go round and round as we're seeing here. This is the same thing as asking what the best sports cars are in the Prius forums.

Great suggestion, but go prepared with the basic knowledge? "What we learned on the Track" http://986forum.com/forums/general-d...ned-track.html Racing Section: http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-racing-forum/

I hope your not serious. You could not be more wrong about this.

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Yup. Even the Macan is an awesome track animal

Well, this certainly has become interesting reading :-) However, there are some of us who are going to drive on track, no matter what some experts say, and who are going to be a bit worried, no matter what some other experts say. So maybe part of this discussion deserves it's own thread, like the "all 996s blow up on turn 1 / no, all 996s can do the Le Mans 24 without engine oil" thread. Anyway, there's been a lot of helpful knowledge about what can be done to minimize risks shared in this thread. That's what I was hoping for when I started it, and it would be a shame to lose that. Thanks!

And to that end ... I came across something interesting in the original review of the C4S in Excellence (April 2002): "Andreas Schneider, in charge of engine development on the Carrera 4S ... feels the quasi-dry-sumped motor of the new Carrera 4S in indeed suitable for track events. 'That's why we have oil pumps in the cylinder heads,' he explains. 'This car is good for 1.4g. I wouldn't do it for 10 consecutive laps (80+ minutes) at the Nurburgring, but certainly spikes to that figure are okay." First the weird thing: "in charge of engine development on the C4S". Why? It has the same engine as the C2. Maybe his title was reported incorrectly. There isn't anything different about the C4S engine. Or is there? Then what mainly interests me. The 10 lap thing suggests that it matters not only how hard you drive, but how often/long you do it. Why would this be? The second time oil is pulled away from one side of the engine, that side starts hotter and with less oil than the first time? This goes back to one of my earlier questions: will the engine be OK if I just do a few (hard) laps before letting the car cool down? Or would this be enough combined with some other precautions? And if so, how often should one cool down, for how long?

RS....you are thinking and over analyzing this to the N'th degree. As a 996 stands stock it can track all day long on street tires. With track tires you are playing Russian roulette...you may be ok or you may not. Doesn't matter what bumper, 3rd rad or any other things. Street tires forgive and track tires don't when it comes to oil starvation. It may not bite you right away but eventually it will.

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+996. Some come on here looking for guarantees on the 996 alone but when you combine 996 + track time, everything is thrown out and you run at your own risk. Everything you needed to know was on the first page. We can take this to 50+ pages and outcome will be the same. As they say if you can't stand the heat... Now put down the keyboard and get out there. Worrying about aero, top speed, cooling should be last after driver improvement has eclipsed to the levels that those additional components are needed.

What kills engines that aren't prepped for track use is long sustained high G loads. Top end MPH has nothing to do with it unless you are topped out in the middle of a corner (never). This is not isolated to the 996. It is any vehicle made that isn't factory prepped with dry sumps, baffles, coolers, etc. Very few vehicles meet this criteria. 99% of everyone in here will be fine taking any car that is not track prepped to an HPDE. Go to any track event and look at all the street cars in the HPDE groups. They aren't prepped either but still running on track. If you are new to the track, you are not fast enough to harm the engine especially on street tires. Can you lose an engine? Sure, but you can also lose one driving to work. It generally takes a long time to build your skills and speed enough on track to get to where you really need all the prep.

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YUP!

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+996 +996 +996 on street tires.

Even on race tires, most novice drivers will not be able to hold the slip angle enough to harm the car. However if you are a novice, you should be learning on street tires anyway. To the OP if you are really that concerned about it, I suggest buying a cheap Miata to learn on the track. You will learn more quickly and have much less at stake if anything does happen. These 996's have fairly high limits even on street tires that it makes it harder to learn. If you aren't reaching and slightly exceeding the limit of the tires and your setup, you can't truly learn how to control and balance the car at the limit. Besides, it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. There is nothing wrong with taking the 996 to the track though.

Thanks all for the as always helpful advice! Maybe it's helpful to clarify a bit. I'm certainly not the best driver out there. However, for many reasons, ranging from what my data logger tells me to enough experience driving on track, rightly or wrongly, I'm worried that I'm one of the people who will pull enough g's to be at risk. (Unless it turns out that cooling down every few laps is enough.) So rightly or wrongly, I, and undoubtedly a lot of other forum members, will want to better understand what we can do to reduce risks. There are simply too many people who say don't take a stock 996 on track - not just on this forum but also several people I know who tell me of bad experiences their clients have had - for any number of assurances to the contrary to make me - and probably lots of other forum members - not worry. I've certainly learned a lot here recently - thanks again to everyone! I think I know what are the first things to investigate further about protecting my car against oil starvation: A baffled and possibly deep sump, better oil, and possibly an accusump. Not sure whether a better sump is enough without an accusump and vice-versa. I'm a bit fuzzy about heat. Maybe I need to review the earlier posts, though I suspect that even if I do, I'll be left wondering how high this risk is independant of any impact of heat on oil starvation, and not sure whether either a 3rd radiator, Evans coolant, or a low temperature thermostat (whatever that does) alone is enough, not two or all three of them. And I'm definitely fuzzy whether regular cool down laps or similar precautions make a big difference ... . Logically they must for pure heat concerns, but for oil starvation?

"I'm a bit fuzzy about heat" A few ideas to research: 1. The engine oil acts as a coolant and having a deep sump adds more oil so that helps the heat issue. 2. Lots of discussion about "thermal stability" and "shear" of different brands/grades of engine oil . 3. An accurate reading of engine oil temperature would help you cool off before you caused engine damage. http://www.pedrosgarage.com/Site_2/TechnoGauges.html

My 02 996 club race car with over 100K miles on the clock, running various DOT-R compound tires (RA1, V710, NT01) has run Cal Speedway's banking or WSIR's sweeping turn 2 and 8/9 an unknown number of times over the years with no oiling mods, running 0w-40 mobil1 with a stock filter, with no cool down: just pull in to post-race impound and shut the car off... that must make the internet 996-masters cringe...

Once you start on the Rcomps you're opening your wallet to much, much more. You saw my shopping list on turning my C4S into a suitable DD/Track machine. I've built multiple SCCA/NASA cars and wouldn't do anything less than what I have there taking everything into consideration. My build is here and I've already completed 80% of that list. Otherwise, your $ per fun meter is highest keeping it mostly stock and maybe adding some coilovers on great street tires (Pilot Sports). The car will handle any track you throw at it for multiple lap sessions. If what you actually mean about HPDEs is that you care about lap times and want to run in Group A- then I'd still tell you the same thing and to run as many events with instruction using a more basic setup until you are able to show consistent lap times on the line.

Then your one of the lucky ones. I would imagine you have caused engine damage that you have not seen yet. Maybe its time to tear down the engine before its too late.

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Outstanding..!!

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Interesting. What temperature is too high?

And more generally about heat, is this just about preventing the oil from foaming to help avoid oil starvation? (And in that case, might a good sump and/or an accusump and good oil be enough?) Or does one need to worry about heat because of some other, heat related problem that affects our cars, and which is not related to oil starvation?

I am not qualified to give you that answer. You need advice from the few that repair and race the M96. They also need some robust Engineering and practical mechanical experience.A few nominations: Brad Roberts JR + CN BYProdriver Pedro - did you read this? : http://www.pedrosgarage.com/Site_5/C...g,_part_3.html Oil temp problems: suggest you research "Shear" and "thermal stability" -both these two issues and foaming can be addressed with appropriate choice of engine oil but you need specific data on all three issues .BITOG may help.

Wait a minute � . Pocono, Cal Speedway, banking � you guys are running ovals! Wow, I�d love to try that. But probably never will. Don�t have any here. So I do road courses. How much does that change the picture? I mean, a lot from the driver�s perspective, but how about from the engine�s? Is oil starvation much more of a concern on ovals? My guess is that at ovals, there are two kinds of drivers: Novices, who will not be pulling a continuous 1g at 150 mph anytime soon (surely the group I�d be in). And oval experts. I can imagine the first group might not need to modify their cars at all to prevent oil starvation, and the second would need to modify just about everything. Does that make sense? And what about those of us who just do road courses? Are we in the first camp, because even if we are pulling 1.1g in curves, it�s rarely for long (though 1.4 g braking can last for a while, when you have to brake from redline in 5th to 2nd). Or are we in the second, because it�s long enough (or maybe because braking is as bad/worse than lateral g�s?).

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Regarding my post: POC and PCA club races run Cal Speedway as a "Roval" which is a road course... about 2/3 of the oval is used before turning into the inside at turn 3 as the road course which has 21 turns. If you want specific info: http://www.autoclubspeedway.com/Gues...B7C1671E1.ashx I don't think anyone just runs Ovals at Porsche track events... that wouldn't be too fun...

I'm still wondering about the oval versus road courses. It seems to me that ovals - and rovals too - must be much worse for oil starvation in 2 ways: First, road courses don't have nearly as many long curves taken at near maximum lateral acceleration throughout. Second, whereas on a road course, after one or two right handers, one will have a left hander that will pull the oil back where it's needed, on an oval, one can have 100 right (or left) handers in a row. A roval is of course better, but you still get 2 or 3 curves in a row that go the same direction, and they are still long ones taken with high lateral acceleration throughout. It would of course be great if someone could confirm that yes, road courses aren't nearly so tough on the engine (and therefore Porsche was right not to make their motorsport sump deeper, etc., etc.). But if that's not the case, that would be even more important to know ... .

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Yep, I have now, thanks!

rs10, oil starvation is a legitimate concern, especially on a banked oval like Pocono Raceway. If you are concerned just install an oil sump upgrade kit. You can diy easily for less than $500. Do it during your next oil change. Kits range from $249 - $549. Problem solved, fairly cheap solution.

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Thanks, I'd certainly be worried on an oval. But I don't do ovals. So I'm trying to figure out how concerned I need to be on road courses. (I have no problem using the best oil (whatever that is), or installing a Porsche Motorsport sump with baffles which does not reduce the ground clearance. But I'd rather not do more if it's not needed.)

I came upon a new way to keep things cool - apparently. In the latest EVO magazine there's an article about Zircotec ceramic and aluminum coating, a coating that's apparently used by most F1 teams to reduce the temperature of what it's applied to by up to 30%. Not more expensive than some other upgrades described in this thread - the journalist coated the inlet manifold on his 4 cylinder engine for 372 pounds. I like that it presumably adds little weight (the coating is 200-250 microns thick), doesn't reduce ground clearance, and is less likely to have adverse side effects than many upgrades (though side effects are probably not an issue for most upgrades described in this thread). No clue if it would do us much good though, much less where we'd apply it. Non-X51 manifolds are plastic no - not sure it works with plastic. And if applied to headers or exhaust pipes, would it radiate heat from them - but towards the engine? Given how crowded our engine bays are, maybe one of the best candidates would be the oil pan ... Anyway, I'd be curious what others think or have learned about using this for our cars.

RS10, what 996 do you actually own?

Jfc, if you are this worried about it don't track it. Thousands of 996s have been on track and despite the doom and gloom professed by some people, they do just fine. If you are good enough drover to hurt it, you already know what to do.

So this thread elicited aroud 120 reponses within a week, then I asked the oval question (post 122), and suddenly all quiet? What shall I make of this – that everyone with an interest in oil starvation drives on ovals? While I’m sure oil starvation danger does not disapear on road coarses, I’d really like to know whether mild precautions are enough. Can anyone shed some light on this?

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996.2

All recommendations have been given. No more juice out of the turnip to give.

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Bingo

+1 Sneeky Pete: I am surprised it has gone on this long..............

Buy the LNE .5qt deep sump kit at minimum, then watch the m96 whisperer in this video. Even if someone was able to track the exact G force stat where a "full" pan of oil started to have oil starvation, it doesn't matter, cause it's too damn late. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t7ox-DVE5eg

All your questions have been answered either directly in this thread or somewhere in the hundreds of threads about all the topics you have inquired about. You seem to be seeking a guarantee of some sort which doesn't exist. So I'll just come right out and tell you what to do. Upgrade your oil sump properly, and if that means you lose clearance, then you lose clearance. That's the price you pay. OR pay more money for a more sophisticated oil pressure upgrade installed by racing professionals and don't lose the clearance. You're going to have to pay. And you get what you pay for. Porsche ownership and tracking ain't cheap and never will be. If you don't have the disposable income maybe it's time to sell and buy a miata. You have never mentioned what city you live in, what race tracks you will be driving at, that could be useful information which has been oddly left out. You never asked "what shop near me (fill in the city) can prep my car for the track." Take your stock 996.2 with the upgraded oil pressure (everything else stock) and go to 10 or 20 track days. While you're there look around, talk to people, gain knowledge through ACTUAL EXPERIENCE rather than an internet message board. Come back and tell us the answers!

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OK, I did think I was asking a new question - whether ovals mean greater oil starvation danger, and if so, whether those who have recommended the greatest precautions are assuming that one does ovals. Anyway, even if there is no more juice now, there certainly has been a lot so far. Thanks again to everyone who shared their experience and expertise!!!

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Undoubtedly reasonable advice, though the expertise available locally may unfortunately be less than you'd expect, and I have asked. I've been to enough track days (with different cars) and have enough friends with Porsches to know who the local specialists are. One told me there is nothing one can do to make a 996.2 safe, the other told me there is nothing one can do to make a 996.1 safe, but one does not need to do anything with a 996.2. I've obviously learned much more from rennlist. Indeed, I've learned here how to fix problems on my and a friend's car that one of the specialists completely misunderstood. So for me, this forum is invaluable! And where am I? Well I'd like to avoid both saying negative things about the local specialists (as I've done here and in another thread) and identifying them. But if I say where I am, then I say who they are. I hope you will forgive me for not doing that. I rely on these guys for doing work on my car, and I like them, I just wish they would move along the experience curve faster.

What we have here is a more extreme case of analysis paralysis than typical on RL. Interesting species we have here.