Advice 996 C2 or C4S - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Looking to buy first 911. Particularly drawn to Gen2 996 and happy to pay top prices (25-30k) for all except a 40th anniversary. Have seen a few offered and wonder which might be a better buy. I am familiar with the 996 engine issues, so will be a dealer purchase (Paragon, Portiacraft, Eporsche…) This is to tide me over for a few years, but resale is not the most important factor. Does the heavier AWD and wider stance detract? As a purist, i guess i prefer the C2 RWD but would welcome comments on such an old car. It will be for weekends only as I already have a Macan S. It will not be a garage queen, nor will it be garaged! A 997.1 tip is another option. I m not fixated on manuals as the PDK Macan has been fabulous (it’s a diesel V6). My end 911 is a PDK 997.2 in burgundy/tan but thats the car after this. Edited by DrugHunter on Tuesday 7th April 23:34

Personally, I'm not a fan of the 996; I'd skip that generation and buy a 997, but now is a good time to buy as they're on the up in terms of values. Go for a low-mileage 4S in manual with a good service history, preferably with an engine rebuild, and it should be fine. Tips do not hold their values. As for a dealer, Portiacraft would be my pick. I like that they rebuild these engines and offer a warranty that shares the cost of an engine rebuild if it goes pop. That said, I think they'd all carry out a borescope inspection before sale, so you shouldn't have anything to worry about. If looking at a Tip, 996 or 997.1, I wouldn't buy one that hasn't already had an engine rebuild. Good luck.

996's are mega things but everything needs to be in fine fettle for this to be the case so paying a premium through a specialist dealer is a good idea if you dont want to do it yourself. I love the look of the c4s but discounted when i was looking due to the awd/ weight of the cars but they do remain sought after still, there are lots of people always asking for them on the Facebook pages and what not! Personally, when i was in a similar position, i ended up getting a 996.2 aero car with a whole host of factory options and then made it into what i wanted.

With that budget surely a thorough patient look gets u a 997 manual with rebuild? Pdk is very much not Tiptronic which is why values stay low A 997.2 with 65k ish went for under 30k on an online auction recently. Prices can be all over the place and hard to gauge Don't get one that looks pretty only, they're all 20 years old so many many components needed changing even on low mileage ones. I see some low mileage at big money and no mention of spend. Lastly 4s has the looks and big hips, but 2 has better steering, weight etc you pays your money...

Everyone's covered the practical stuff so I'm going to dive in on the girly stuff. What looks nicer to you? Ultimately, it's sitting on your drive so you have to look at it. C2s look great but C4Ss look... greater. Depends on whether you're willing to sacrifice a bit of driver experience for the wider hips, I guess.

996 has nicer steering and is generally a more engaging drive, the 997 has a better quality interior, but I prefer the aesthetics of the 996 interior. If you want a medallion man chariot that's 4WD and bloated, the C4S Tip is for you, if you prefer something that's more of a "911", a manual 996 C2 coupe is the pick of the bunch. Drive both. Then decide...

Thank you for the replies. as it happens events caught up with me and today I found and bought a privately owned 996 C4 manual in seal grey with black interior, not a C2, with very low miles and one family owner. I prefer the narrow rear and the AWD will probably help with my limited driving skills! I do prefer the inside of the 996 to the 997. At 19k miles, I am planning on a prophylactic IMS/RMS change if that makes sense? Thanks should go to EPorsche who were very helpful, and I expect my new acquisition will find its way there for regular care. Edited by DrugHunter on Thursday 9th April 19:32 Edited by DrugHunter on Thursday 9th April 19:32

DrugHunter said: Thank you for the replies. as it happens events caught up with me and today I found and bought a privately owned 996 C4 manual in seal grey with black interior, not a C2, with very low miles and one family owner. I prefer the narrow rear and the AWD will probably help with my limited driving skills! I do prefer the inside of the 996 to the 997. At 19k miles, I am planning on a prophylactic IMS/RMS change if that makes sense? Thanks should go to EPorsche who were very helpful, and I expect my new acquisition will find its way there for regular care. Congrats! Since you mention them, you must be fairly close to the Fairmile Pub in Cobham - there's a massive Porsche meet there next Wednesday evening.

Yes I am local and I’ll see if i can come. Won’t be in the 996. Might be in the Macan though if that qualifies.

Congratulations! I think they look great in Seal Grey. My tip would be get a full post purchase inspection done (I can recommend Purely9 and Precision Porsche, but, I’m sure many do a good one). Then you can decide what’s important to you. Personally, I’d prioritise setup, but, with so many suspension bits n bobs that can be expensive.

DrugHunter said: Yes I am local and I ll see if i can come. Won t be in the 996. Might be in the Macan though if that qualifies. Yes, all Porsches welcome.

DrugHunter said: Yes I am local and I ll see if i can come. Won t be in the 996. Might be in the Macan though if that qualifies. Sure, but Team 996 needs more representation.

WombleCate said: My tip would be get a full post purchase inspection done (I can recommend Purely9 and Precision Porsche, but, I m sure many do a good one). It will be off to Brooklands Porsche for an inspection and a quote on an IMS/RMS replacement. They look after my Macan (2015, 99k miles, full OPC history and still under their extended warranty for a few more years). Sadly I won't have the 996 by Wednesday unless DVLA issue some new plates to the seller ASAP. But I may treat the Macan to a wash before bringing it along to Chobham.

Cobham not Chobham! Do official Porsche dealers do IMS work? I thought a specialist would be required who'd fit an LN Engineering IMS bearing or similar?

DrugHunter said: Thank you for the replies. as it happens events caught up with me and today I found and bought a privately owned 996 C4 manual in seal grey with black interior, not a C2, with very low miles and one family owner. I prefer the narrow rear and the AWD will probably help with my limited driving skills! I do prefer the inside of the 996 to the 997. At 19k miles, I am planning on a prophylactic IMS/RMS change if that makes sense? Thanks should go to EPorsche who were very helpful, and I expect my new acquisition will find its way there for regular care. Edited by DrugHunter on Thursday 9th April 19:32 Edited by DrugHunter on Thursday 9th April 19:32 Good choice, well done. Do the 996.2 C4’s have the same shape as the C2’s?

Get yourself to the Porsche experience at silverstone or get yours on a track. A 911 is great fun but they do behave differently and can catch you out. 90 minutes thrashing one on a track in relative safety is great fun. (hummm, but they dont seem to do the classics anymore) Edited by Gary C on Friday 10th April 13:43

DrugHunter said: WombleCate said: It will be off to Brooklands Porsche for an inspection and a quote on an IMS/RMS replacement. They look after my Macan (2015, 99k miles, full OPC history and still under their extended warranty for a few more years). I’d rather get a PPI done by someone who a: knows a 996/ 997 and b: you could discuss it with directly afterwards

DrugHunter said: It will be off to Brooklands Porsche for an inspection and a quote on an IMS/RMS replacement. They look after my Macan (2015, 99k miles, full OPC history and still under their extended warranty for a few more years). Sadly I won't have the 996 by Wednesday unless DVLA issue some new plates to the seller ASAP. But I may treat the Macan to a wash before bringing it along to Chobham. As everyone above has said, Porsche today is not the place to take a 996. They don't have the skills/experience, or even if they do have the odd venerable mechanic, Indies have come up with better parts/solutions in the intervening decades, and they work on older cars all of the time, obviously.

Orangecurry said: As everyone above has said, Porsche today is not the place to take a 996. They don't have the skills/experience, or even if they do have the odd venerable mechanic, Indies have come up with better parts/solutions in the intervening decades, and they work on older cars all of the time, obviously. Depends where. Porsche Carnforth have quite a few classics through the doors and seem to do a reasonable job.

Didn't Brooklands used to be Camtune? They may or may not have retained the skills/people, but they'll still be restrained by Porsche parts and solutions. IMHO.

Orangecurry said: they'll still be restrained by Porsche parts and solutions. That'll be a new engine, then.

Brooklands is our local OPC and they are used to classics and 996 s. In fact they were excited by the prospect of me bringing it in. I think some of them were there when 996 s were new! I also have a quote from Paragon which is further away. I just missed their manual silver 996. Either way i am happy to a pamper this car like I do the macan since it is almost NOS. And yes C4 is a 50kg heavier C2. Same narrow body which is what i really wanted. Edited by DrugHunter on Friday 10th April 19:42

DrugHunter said: Does the heavier AWD and wider stance detract? Yes The lightest of all water cooled 911 is the earliest 3.4 from around 97 98 etc. The earliest cars had no side airbags and no traction control and no unnecessary junk. These cars also have some better engine coating which prevents bore score. And I believe a stronger IMS type. So for me these are the pick of the bunch. All later models get heavier and heavier. The c4s is the heaviest of all NA 996. With only around 300 bhp and the whole rear engine layout I don't really understand the appeal of 4wd. Its just unnecessary if you ask me.

DrugHunter said: It will be off to Brooklands Porsche for an inspection and a quote on an IMS/RMS replacement. Don't bother. I really wouldn't start messing around with the IMS. It is 20 years old, I think you can end up in more trouble swapping it than leaving the original in there. I speak from experience. Just drive it an enjoy it. If you want to convert to RWD it takes around 4 hours to remove the AWD system and you can buy the axle stubs from design911.com for £160.

Maybe just an inspection and PCCM update then. I had seen the C4 to 2 conversion kit. I doubt i’d notice much difference.

I doubt 99% of us would notice the difference 90% of the time. The % of FWD on a C4 is (I believe) negligible, same as the weight difference.

WombleCate said: I doubt 99% of us would notice the difference 90% of the time. The % of FWD on a C4 is (I believe) negligible, same as the weight difference. When I was daily driving my 1998 996 c2 a few years ago I got to know the car pretty well. One day I had to take my tool box, big trolley jack and axle stands somewhere. I got them all in the froot. The car felt different instantly with 50 or 60kg - guessing - up front. So I believe people who say the c4 feels different are mostly noticing the extra weight over the front end more than the drive from the front diff.

I read that the difference in weight is a tank of fuel (40-50kg). And to test drive both, and if you cant tell the difference, buy the C4. Because when you NEED the difference, it’ll be too late. Quite like that. My Macan is basically RWD based on the info provided, and weighs 510 kilos more with 80 less PS. Anyway, looking forward to taking ownership and collecting next week. It’s been a dream to own one and i am very pleased with the car. I did look at 993’s but the price has gone mad and my garage is full of bikes. The 996 felt much more modern inside, and I like the front lights of the facelift more than the round ones!

More difference with geo settings than the actual AWD vs RWD on these. I was only interested in the RWD, but bought a C4, ran it for a year before converting it, and in all honesty, at first I didn't like it as much, it took me a few geo changes to get the car to feel how i was used to it and preferred it. I end up with the following... Front. Toe In 0.04 Camber 0.5 (This was maxed out on standard top mounts.) Rear Toe In 0.12 Camber 1.5 This made the rear very, very planted, but also made the front end feel more stable, like it was as a C4. Going forward I would happily own either. They are 95% rear biased until it is needed anyway.

DrugHunter said: I read that the difference in weight is a tank of fuel (40-50kg). If Porsche brought out a new special edition which was 40kg lighter people would be clammering to buy it. On an already light car that's not insignificant. Add some lighter seats and battery and you could easily be 100kg lighter overall.

ATM said: Yes The lightest of all water cooled 911 is the earliest 3.4 from around 97 98 etc. The earliest cars had no side airbags and no traction control and no unnecessary junk. These cars also have some better engine coating which prevents bore score. And I believe a stronger IMS type. So for me these are the pick of the bunch. All later models get heavier and heavier. The c4s is the heaviest of all NA 996. With only around 300 bhp and the whole rear engine layout I don't really understand the appeal of 4wd. Its just unnecessary if you ask me. Need to dump all that unnecessary coolant too, only need for water in a 911, is to wash the windscreen

WombleCate said: I doubt 99% of us would notice the difference 90% of the time. The % of FWD on a C4 is (I believe) negligible, same as the weight difference. No different to the early 996.1 "cable throttle" zealots preaching their nonsensical drivel. Porsche Carrera GT, Lexus LFA, GME T50, Porsche 996.2 GT3, Porsche 997.2 GT3 RS 4.0, all utilise FBW throttle actuation, yet you don't hear their owners bemoaning the fact they haven't got a Bowden cable betwixt pedal and throttle body...

Slippydiff said: No different to the early 996.1 "cable throttle" zealots preaching their nonsensical drivel. Porsche Carrera GT, Lexus LFA, GME T50, Porsche 996.2 GT3, Porsche 997.2 GT3 RS 4.0, all utilise FBW throttle actuation, yet you don't hear their owners bemoaning the fact they haven't got a Bowden cable betwixt pedal and throttle body... Even funnier still, the fbw 996's are actually cable operated for around 250mm, so pedal feel is indistinguishable. You can also 'map' the throttle to do whatever you want, also (or buy a pedal commander type device). All you are doing is adding in another mechanical maintenance woe with the cable throttle...

Dropped the Macan off at Brooklands this morning. Two 993s, a Boxster and a 997 targa all in for work. They like to work on classics. Liking the 1Din PCCM in the 993 below, and think I’ll go with that as more in keeping with the analogue nature of the understated C4 i have.

DrugHunter said: Maybe just an inspection and PCCM update then. I had seen the C4 to 2 conversion kit. I doubt i d notice much difference. You might be surprised, I bought a 996 turbo last year, coming from a 993 c2 the only thing I don’t really like with the turbo is the steering, you can definitely feel the weight (drive shafts) hanging off the front wheels, it takes some force to deflect the steering and some muscle to correct (compared to a RWD car). If I was brave I’d pull the fwd gubbins off, but have been warned my wife would become a widow!

Congrats on the purchase. I’ve had a 996.2 C4, C2, Turbo and now a C4S. The C4S is the best looking IMO, but my favourite to drive was the C4. Both my C4 had and my C4S has PSE which adds a lot imo.

MrC986 said: This is the geo that Center Gravity put on my 996 C4 after a full suspension rebuild - the request was to make the car good for fast road use and they did a great job. I can highly recommend backing the tyre pressures off by about 4 psi to make the car ride better as well, especially on our pothole strewn roads. I sold my 996 recently for an Aston Vantage but have fond memories of a very agile sports car. Geo pic says Mercedes Benz. Did you post the right one?

This is the geo that Center Gravity put on my 996 C4 after a full suspension rebuild - the request was to make the car good for fast road use and they did a great job. I can highly recommend backing the tyre pressures off by about 4 psi to make the car ride better as well, especially on our pothole strewn roads. I sold my 996 recently for an Aston Vantage but have fond memories of a very agile sports car with the right set up... With correct alignment printout.... Edited by MrC986 on Tuesday 21st April 16:29

^^ corrected further up - you can see i like checking the geo on my cars

Thats about all you can do on OE arms etc, there's not much adjustment in them but your set up looks about as good as you can get!

It’s lovely. Didn’t notice the 4wd over the C2 I tested, love the colour, interior is as new. And totally standard in every way. Now on 19k miles. I even washed the Macan yesterday in case it gets jealous! Now looking at storage options like a carcoon as it is in such lovely condition. On its second set of tyres. Will have it inspected next week. Now I’ve read the cdr-22 manual, the PCM is not that bad. I’ve also ordered the rennlist 996 warning switch phone mount. Last question, anyone done the centre consul delete? Would that lose money on this example? I’d like the PCCm DIn1, but that leaves the centre consul redundant as no CDs needed!

DrugHunter said: It s lovely. Didn t notice the 4wd over the C2 I tested, love the colour, interior is as new. And totally standard in every way. Now on 19k miles. I even washed the Macan yesterday in case it gets jealous! Now looking at storage options like a carcoon as it is in such lovely condition. On its second set of tyres. Will have it inspected next week. Now I ve read the cdr-22 manual, the PCM is not that bad. I ve also ordered the rennlist 996 warning switch phone mount. Last question, anyone done the centre consul delete? Would that lose money on this example? I d like the PCCm DIn1, but that leaves the centre consul redundant as no CDs needed! Glad you're happy with it! And dont worry about money, its your car, just do what you want to make it better for you, everything is reversible.

Congrats. You can replace some of the centre console sections with other things such as a cassette holder. Or maybe just a plastic pocket for stashing stuff. I keep meaning to remove the CD holder and buy a plastic pocket. Just useful to have it.

The centre console delete is completely reversible (as long as you keep all the parts you remove) so it won't impact on the car's value. Buying an OE centre console delete will however impact on your wallet's health quite considerably... Here's mine :

"rennlist 996 warning switch phone mount." Eurghh. Cancel the order, looks horrid. Haha Sort of joking, your car, if you like it great. I hate stuff attached to the dash. There is a guy on facebook who is doing a centre console delete that holds the climate, so you can put in the PCCM+ double din unit and loose that crap looking centre console still.

I’m not a fan of the double DIN. I have a Macan with a big enough screen already. I’ll probably see if i can add bluetooth to the cdr-22 first and use a phone for navigation. It’s not as if it ia going to be used a great deal! Just need to chose my four favourite CDs now! It is mint condition inside

You might find this useful: https://www.dension.co.uk/gateway I have one although I didn't know it at the time nor did I then know how to use it. I just thought my PCCM double DIN headunit was broken as was the CD changer because Dension's installation bypasses the changer to connect it to the Gateway 500 unit. Everything is controlled via the CD changer option eg selecting CDs. It does work as does BT but in the end, I like the hands-off approach so just connect an old Ipod and it plays DJ mixes back to back which I prefer over sorting through my phone via BT. I'm probably doing everything wrong because I didn't have the manual nor knew what I had (even asking on a couple of Porsche forums and groups yielded no information - and it was recommended that I just get a PCCM+!). But it works - I get music out of it without the faff of BT dropping etc. I can also take calls through the system although I don't remember setting that up.

You can buy a bluetooth adapter from eBay for a Becker aux for around £15. Works great. Just make sure you attach the 12v switched to the rem out on the stereo, otherwise it will drain your battery. You can tell when it is correct as your phone will auto connect when you unlock the car. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/137234617126 Or maybe just get a Blaupunkt or Pioneer retro single din unit.... https://pioneer-car.eu/uk/sxt-c10ps Edited by Ed.Neumann on Wednesday 29th April 00:16

Ed.Neumann said: There is a guy on facebook who is doing a centre console delete that holds the climate, so you can put in the PCCM+ double din unit and loose that crap looking centre console still. Interesting - can you share a link ?

Jamie Summers said: Interesting - can you share a link ? I can't. I searched and searched, but couldn't find it. He is in one of the 996 groups. I think a few are offering it now, his looked really good though. Sat in the right place etc. Some different ones on eBay now too.... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/257477232029 But his looked very oem. More like this one...

Slippydiff said: The centre console delete is completely reversible (as long as you keep all the parts you remove) so it won't impact on the car's value. Buying an OE centre console delete will however impact on your wallet's health quite considerably... Here's mine : That is lovely. I would like to swap the CC controls and DIN1 so I can see the screen more easily, and put the phone in the glovebox out of harms way as it needs a wired connection. I also checked the price of the OEM delete! Ouch. So 2k plus installation, but I still think it would add value. The rest of the car is as it was delivered from OPC Swindon in 2002 and this weekend I will be clearing the garage (stage 1) before looking at alternative bike storage options!

The lower delete is great, big fan! 20260407_120750 by Scott Osborne , on Flickr