996 Build quality

Every time I read my copy of 911 & Porsche world, I invariably come across some reference to 'poor build quality' of the 996. This is beginning to irritate me as it never goes onto say exactly what it is that is actually 'built poorly.' I've had my latest 996 for nearly 3 years now; nothing's dropped off, the doors are still attached and all the other components appear intact and firmly affixed to their intended locations. So what exactly are they going on about please?

It has always annoyed me too - even the the early 996's were put together well. I think it's just that people have miconceptions that because the doors don't shut with a highly metallic "clunk" (a la 993) then the car wasn't put together properly. That's the example they all tend to use. Nothing has dropped off my 1998 car either, and everything works as it was intended. It seems that because Porsche went all "modern" and started fixing things on with plastic clips instead of self-tapping screws, some think that the build quality went down. Load of nonsense if you ask me.

Strange, when I tried out a 993 I was surprised by what a metallic clang the door made - like a biscuit tin. The 996 made a nice satisfying thud. Not the only reason I chose a 996! but it helped...

After a succession of 911s, I ordered a 996 at launch and I was immediately impressed with the quality. Furthermore, this has steadily improved and my subsequent 'facelift' 3.6 feels even better in all areas. In fact, I put my name down for a 997, specifically requesting an '06 model year car (to give them a year to iron out any teething problems) and I'm now getting cold feet. Whilst the 997 is undoubtedly a terrific evolution, I'm entirely satisfied with my 996 and can't justify the £25,000 + cost to change.

Maybe they should try owning a current model Merc E Class to know what poor build quality is like

The only thing I can point to is the quality of the paint which seems to be rather less resistant to stone chipping than it used to be. Otherwise it's fine. I don't actually think the new interior in the 997 is anything to write home about and I'm happy with mine, fit for purpose. By comparison, the (red) interior of my SL55 seems contrived and fussy. But you're correct, the 911 is built in a way to make it cheaper. An entry level 997 is rather less in real terms now than a 964 Carrera 2 was in 1989.

I have a 96,000 98R 996 Tiptronic - its had a rear diff rebuild last year (slight noise coming from it when I bought it from Autobahn and we agreed on a deal to rebuild it but I was being slightly fussy as I bought it from a dealer) and apparently the gearbox was rebuild a couple of years ago. The car looks first class inside and out with only minor signs of wear on the leather - far superior than most other marques with nearly 100,000 of undoubtedly hard miles!

I tend to agree, even though i have experinced, a few little rattles over more bumpy back roads, but i am very fussy, and generaly i think they are great cars. I also notice with these types of reports it is often written by people who do not own one, and may own an old timmer and have the view that they don't make them like they use to. I would worry if it was reported by a longer term own (owners) i recently bought the new 911 magazine and read a report on the early cars and there was nothing bad said. Nice to hear. (by the way the 911 nothing else matters mag, worth picking up a copy) Phil

I agree with all that's been said. My 2000 996 feels really well put together and even my wife says it feels really taught and excellent to drive. I did seriously consider a 993 S but they just felt so old and outdated, and let's face it - the 993's bodyshell was built around 1960's technology. Hardly inspiring 40 years on. No doubt it will become a classic and thankfully Porsche cars cater for most tastes. We both thought it was time to move on and not let nostalga rule our decision. The 996 is more than a fine car, its truly excellent, with high sales and many thousands of satisfied customers worldwide to prove it. Porsche have always made great cars, and the 996 is just the evolution of the 911 theme that has progressed to its modern evolution. The 997 takes up the reins of what the 996 started. As they say in 356 circles - Keep The Faith is all that matters, no matter what Porsche you own.

Spot on. The OPC that let me out for a long test drive in a 997 made one crucial mistake - they let me go home in my 996!

I agree; since the 997 came out the motoring press (including specialist Porsche mags) seem to have relegated the 996 to an also-ran; very much the poorer sibling compared to the "classic 993 and the much improved 997" - depreciation on especially pre facelift cars seems to be bearing this perception out. It feels that the 996 is getting a rough deal[ ] Andrew

Spot on as well, my sentiments entirely. Had a good look round a 997 out of curiosity but went away feeling disenchanted. The bonnet is aluminium I think and from the underside it looks like it's been pressed out of recycled Iron Bru tins. So much for the claimed superior build quality. The interior does have the appearance of being more robust but I think it's too cluttered with switches etc which spoils the overall appeal. Did notice that the doors seem to close easier and with a more solid feel though. As for the pricing structure, when I eventually managed to get the car configurator working (albeit only partially!), I was angered to see matallic paint as an option. Pay c£58k for a car and have to pay another 700 odd quid to have it in arctic silver? [ ] ... and another 200 quid or so for a rear wiper[>:] Come on. By the time I'd finished, the total price (with sunroof and crested seats as the only options) came close to a base 996C4S and I know which one I'd choose. I'm, keeping my 996 - and the shirt on my back!

If you check out the 997 forum then the odd rattle i get in my 996 on bumpy back roads seams to be nothing to even worry about, and as you guys say for the extra cost to up-grade then i don't think it is worth, not for me. Phil

I loved my 996, it was the best. The 997 is better some some ways though, but by god did it rattle. All fixed now though, so even more pleased[ ]

I tended to agree with the "poor quality issue" on the 996, when I bought mine last september in had an incredibly annoying rattle from behind the glovebox. Finally found it on friday-the tracker had been cable tied to the beam behind the nearside air bag!. So this was not a Porsche problem but the clown that fitted the tracker, apart from that I think the qualitys pretty good.

I am delighted to read the positive members/owners comments regarding a superb and successful 911 such as the 996, I am on my 3rd model 996 and worry sometimes at the bad forum press on RMS and rare engine failure, much better to read the good points! The volume of 996 is immense and I firmly believe is a success story in it's own right and now in it's 9th year of production is still going strong, the TurboS cab is a dream car indeed. Happy 996ering Johnny McGirl 996 RS

When the Jag XK first came out years ago, I read a test report in one of the motoring magazines. One thing in particular that sticks in my mind is the journalist had problems closing the boot, and when he slammed it a bit harder, indentations matching his fingertips were left in the lid! How's that for build quality then?[ ]

I'm sure I recall something along those lines from The Incredibles ....

Having owned 2 996's albeit early models, I can see why the "poor build quality" does come up. I have to say that both the 964 and 993's I owned did feel more solid and robust, perhaps it just perception that comes across in the "poor build quality" Would agree about the paintwork as blueSL comments. I almost went back to a 993 as this model had been my most enjoyable, but times move on and I think the 996 will eventually be more respected if thats the right word. My current early 98 model has no rattles, just a little wind noise from the passenger which PCT still can't sort out !!!!![ ] Mark

Have you tried a cork [ ]

[ ] Very good Ian_uk, should have said passenger door !!!!!!!!! Mark

My 996 has just done 142k now. Apart from a few rattles I have to say it doesn't drive like it has done that many miles. Same tiptronic gearbox, same diffs and wheel bearings and No oil leaks now the bellows have been done. You sometimes read the forums and can get quite worried - my only real complaint is the ease by which other people seem to be able to knock my doors whilst at Tesco! So I wonder why spend another 20k for a face lift one - because I can't find a car I like the look of more or the driving more rewarding. She is now up for sale at £23k if anyone is interested - I think I will be buying a facelift one now

The 'poor quality' issue I think could be fuelled by some of the really long posts you see on some (un-named) web sites that go on and on and on and on about, in particular, engines going bang, rms failures and suchlike......[8|] The press soon pick up on issues such as these and hey presto they have a story. One berk was even going to go to Watchcat or some such televisual extravaganza which would have really put the cat among the pigeons. Then 'poor build quality' could have been front page news. Now you are all indignant at the car's bad press! Ha![ ] Serves us all right![:-] The paint is hardly Porsche's fault methinks - isn't it something to do with EU legislation of solvents??? Haven't manufacturers gone over to water based evolutions of paint??? Haven't all manufacturers got similar issues??? As for my old 996 I cannot think of a finer car, (apart from my newer 996). Yes it had lots of issues when I bought it but I am sure that was down to the previous owner... After getting all the little bits and pieces fixed the only thing I had give up was the lower suspension bush wotsits. Door slammed shut with a very satisfying thunk in my opinion....

Fair enough, at least you're being objective. It's continual references to poor build quality without explanation which I find annoying.

The problem is that this is a question of opinion. Last time I sat in an Audi, I didn't like it. Nothing I could put my finger on, I just didn't. If anything, it felt cheap. Sorry and all that. My 996 is an entirely different matter - that makes me smile even without starting the engine. I'm glad you like your Audi, though. Maybe we're after different things. What worries me about build quality issues is if there is something hidden that proves to be substandard. If the cabin is cheap and flimsy then I'll spot that before I buy and change my mind. If the engine has a propensity to blow up without warning and without warranty then I have no opportunity to see that when I decide to spend the cash. What irritates me is that there seems to be this myth of 996 unreliability that is at variance with what I see in my own car (admittedly not statistically valid!) but which also seems unsupported by the real world experience. It rather reminds me of the absolute hell we went through deciding whether to give our children the MMR vaccine. I suspect that the 996's success is the problem; having sold so many, quite a few have gone to people who are not car buffs and do not look after them, do not watch the garage floor, and do not look into odd symptoms. Combine that with a problem like the RMS and you have a situation with some enthusiasts suffering (hello Bernie) and some non-enthusiasts kicking up a fuss about why their expensive toy has gone bang. (Fingers crossed that I do not have to eat my words)

I have had several Audis in recent years, and I would agree that they have created the perception of better build quality through their attention to detail and materials used in their interiors. In fact, in this regard, I would rate them above BMW, Mercedes and Porsche. However, Audi still can't build a decent driver's car.

Ok, I surrender, the Audi's build quality is better. But it's still not a Porsche![ ]

Speak for yourself. I've looked at plenty of Audis over the years and it has always been the interior that put me off, to the point where I didn't bother test driving them. But that is purely a matter of opinion - others may (and do) disagree. And that is no reflection on them (or me). Build quality issues are about hidden defects in the car that we do not choose to accept.

Actually, the remark was tongue in cheek and intended to be read as a whole in conjunction with the closing comment. Now that I look at it, I should've joined the two together with dots and maybe added another 'smiley' in amongst it. I do however remain remorseful, since I realise I have commited a cardinal sin on this board...to concede another marque is better. Sorry. [&o]

Sorry - had just returned home, hadn't been driving the 911[:'(], long day[:'(], sense of humour not yet engaged.[:'(] ::[click]:: [ ] Any better now?

[8|] WHAT there are other marque [ ], you'll be saying we have a choice next...(sorry I got carried away, forgot we were on about Porsche[&:]) [ ] [ ] garyw [/quote]

Hmmm, would that be on the basis of sports car looks, or driveability Firstly I would point out , I'm happy as a pig in s*$t with my porsche, which I have in preference to an Audi. However, I have driven my friend's Audi RS6 and believe me it has immense power and stunning road holding. A wolf in sheeps clothing I admit, but where it counts it is very much a decent driver's car. It seems pretty well bolted together as well [ ]

Hi, just got back from Spain. I guess I should go on and on about my engine and gearbox problems but I won't. Not this time. My 996 took me 2800 + miles to Spain and back and had to put up with some grueling roads and it was certainly driven extremely hard. It never once gave me any problems. Fingers crossed my nightmare problems are over now and I vouch for the 996 being extremely reliable. I will add though that my previous car, an Audi A6 2.5 quattro was the most reliable car I have ever owned. I drove it 165,000 miles from new and it never had a squeak out of place.

Glad to hear you're back with no snags, Berny.

Yeah had a great time. Thanks mate. Read the Spain trip thread in the General section for more detail

Just add my $0.02, I am really not into the interior thing on these cars, to be honest I don't like the 997's interior it looks to ricer for my liking, but I suppose it will grow on me eventually. Have always been inspired by the looks of the PORSCHE marque to be honest and if I had wanted a more grand interior then I suppose I would have bought BMW, MERC, etc Not having owned an AUDI or driven one so I can't comment on that subject.

Follwing on from my original post, I was just reading the last few pages of my 911 Porsche World mag., feet up, cup of coffee, Hamlet cigar...then...Argghhhh! 'Your Cars' pages - guy's just bought himself a brand new 997, goes on to say how absolutely marvellous it is. Fine. But then..."while the 997 features no radical departures, it is 80% new - and all the better than its predecessor for it"... (just had to get the dig in, didn't he)[:'(] "80% new", now where have I heard that before. Ah yes, the 968 was 80% new over the 944. Hard to quantify improvement since it's dimensionless, but I know my 968 was never 80% better than my 944 just because some of the components were modified and therefore deemed to be new. Just shows to go you how some people can swallow the sales hype hook line and sinker. Happiness is a cigar called Hamlet - and a 996[ ]

Hmm you must be reading last months edition......this month that guy is not such a happy bunny. He was just about to trade it in for a Maserati after only 4 months of ownership. Some problem with a spacer between the transmission and engine really got him annoyed, along with being given a KN as a courtesy car! I remember reading in PP a few months back about a guy who bought a 360 brand new, then after a few months he was so annoyed that the stereo wasn't working and that people kept staring at him, that he took a huge depreciation loss and bought a 911 instead. It just amazes me how fickle people can be about cars. They spend months on the waiting list, take a big depreciation hit etc but for seemingly silly reasons just get so annnoyed they sell up after only a few months. You want commitment you speak to Berny, h'es had more than enough reasons to buy a Skoda instead of his 911, but he's still hanging in there..... To be honest If the guy in 911 and PWorld would have traded in a 997 for a Maserati then he clearly doesn't recognise a serious sports car from a disaster zone.

You're right Rodney; I don't have access to the latest copy at the moment, as I'm away from home just now...but I can't wait to get back home and read it.[ ]

Quite right. The demonstrator I was given had a fault so serious that I had to be warned to look after the gearbox. They hadn't been able to fix it in time for me because they had been waiting for the part from Italy for a week. Not impressed! Their other mistake was to let me see the used car stock list. When you see it full of ex demo models at 6 months old and £15-20k off, it doesn't give you much confidence.

I reckon Maserati's are the rich man's Audi TT, all show. People that buy those cars can only be buying them because they apparently look good. Scratch beneath the facade and you have financial and mechanical nonsense!

But be careful here, I've just been horrified to discover something I wasn't aware of... ...you just never know...[ ] http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/fb.asp?m=121177 Oh the horror!

To add my 2p worth, and without wanting to turn this to an Audi forum I drive a tuned/lowered S4 Avant LHD as an everyday car. The S4 has been absolutely fine and it was the best value for money when I bought it new from Germany. in the last 5 years I did not have a single bill other than the yearly service. I would reccomend an Audi over any BMW or Jag, I used to have an Alpina B3 and an XK8, unreservedly. Only the latest of the Mercs could be compared to Audis, but at a higher premium. But comparing a Porsche to an Audi, or any other car as a matter of fact, is like Cheese & Chalk. Different cars fill different needs and they should be utilised as such without idolising them; this could lead to confusing cost and price with value and functionality.

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Why does the sidebar describe me as a non member, I`ve paid me dues...............? Can non members post on this forum...? Sorry for the hi-jack...........

Hi Mikial, you have to request your status be set to "member" and I have just done that for you - I check every non member post I see to see if they have registered their member number and if they have, set them to member status. Sorry for the long explanation. And yes, to a limited extent, non members can post

mikial, 1. What makes you think the 997 is a new model? [ ] I think there's a lot of 996 in there[ ] 2. Read my sig [ ]

Thanks Nic and Mark, thats told me then...[ ] Also explains why I failed my eleven plus twice..( "boy doesn`t pay attention, head in the clouds all the time.........."...) quote Mr Tolley headmaster Stanley Park Secondary School for boys and girls Carshalton Surrey 1963

Mikial, the gist of your post - comparing the perceived quality of your four 911s is very interesting, could you enlarge a little please. I have had only one early Porsche, and this was solid but NOT well built, so good to debunk this myth.

Tell us about the 360 as well compared to the 996........[ ]

360 first then, did a p/x at the OPC at Colchester, exchanged a one year old GT3 for a four year old Rosso 360 F1, that was Sept last.My initial delight became jaundiced when pushing on in theFerrari.Initial good grip on turn in became "uh oh whats happening here.....!" Having got used to the GT3 finaly biting at the front when you thought the hedgerow was getting too close, the 360 reversed the roles. Initial good turn in washed away leaving an understeering red sledge.I took the car to Scuderia Systems where they fitted a Tubi exhaust ( allowing me one Sunday morning in March this year to drown out the vicars speech while in mid sentance blessing the newly erected village sign in deepest Suffolk) and adjusted the suspension geometry, removing all traces of the dreaded u/steer. It now , although a tad aggresive, goes where I point it. The flappers are a delight to use when gearchanging and in sport mode at a given rev speed ( high) blip the throttle for you .......superb. I think thats enough about that, it`s a Porsche forum after and I`ve hi-jacked the thread ...........again ....! Every Porsche I`ve owned I`ve thoroughly enjoyed and I wouldn`t criticise that which I know nothing about and never experienced, having never driven a 997 or a 993 (or a KN for that matter) I have no commment to make on those particular models. The 996 I drive now is the best example of a Porsche I`ve driven for my needs, the 911E needed constant care and maintenance and still broke, the heater never worked but when it went it went well. The 930 was at the time I owned it among the worlds fastest cars ,in top speed and acceleration , ( I think that`s correct allthough I stand to be corrected) but the brakes were weak and it rusted, again the heater never worked. The Club Sport was an ex racer which I believe was raced by Robin Gray ( anyone remember him?) with some success especially at Spa. Full roll cage and a pair of full race harnesess avec race seats did it for me but it was unruley and naughty and got me into trouble ( as did the GT3) again the heater never worked. Gone on long enough, excuse the spelling.

This is one of the best threads on the post for a while. Some really good arguments made. It seems both 911 & PW and GT Purely Porsche tend to define older models as in some way better than current production - I guess it's a way of somehow looking back on the halcyon days of Porsche when they were semi hand built. To the magazine readers that bought those cars new, it relives that era. And it perpetuates the myth, sustaining readership but ignoring the fact these manufacturing techniques almost took Porsche under in the early nineties. So the older models need to be looked back on as hallowed machines, and the latest model (997, KN and soon the Cayman) heralded as a significant advance.Otherwise why bother to read the road test? That leaves the 996 in the firing line which is tosh. My 996 turbo is the most reliable of the 4 Porsches I've owned - in that nothing has gone wrong or dropped off. You can be sure when the 998 comes out, the 997 will be rounded upon just as the 996 is now. Then we'll have our day.... PS Anyone know where I can buy Total 911? - no newsagent in Central london seems to stock it.

Just ordered mine off their website - www.total911.co.uk .

Thanks for that link D F , just ordered the two editions. Just a thought re: 911 E and 3.2 etc, wer`n`t the hand controls behind the s/wheel good to use, beautifully damped , quite unlike the 996 which sort flick on and off. Are the 997 `s any better....??