Ex Porsche experience centre cars - Page 4 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Hi, I know this has been done before in terms of the pros and cons of buying one of these. I’d like to know if there is any way of telling if a car that was definitely originally a demonstrator started off life at the PEC?

Sorry for bumping, anyone able to help on this? I was told all PEC cars are registered on a reg plate starting with R but is this 100% accurate?

Heres a pic of the carpark.. Every car I've ever seen there has an R Prefix . I think that R plates can also indicate management cars too.

They also indicate every car that comes out of Reading, Guildford and I think the London OPC's that are owned by Porsche GB

Hamperman said: Hi, I know this has been done before in terms of the pros and cons of buying one of these. I’d like to know if there is any way of telling if a car that was definitely originally a demonstrator started off life at the PEC? Have you tried asking the dealer, or the PEC?

Hi, I’ve just put a call into the OPC to ask them. I know the car was a demonstrator and I’m buying it from one of the London dealers that is part of the Porsche retail group which I think includes Reading. However the car is not registered on a plate starting with R so I’m hoping it’s ok. They are going to call me back to confirm!

Pros • Spec of car should have extras • Servicing should be guaranteed Cons • Driven by many people if demonstrator • No guarantee how it's been driven/ cared for in terms of mechanical sympathy Probably higher risk of longer term issues with engine, gearbox etc due to early life treatment.

You'd be buying with warranty, and if it visually meets your criteria I don't see what the true concern is?

Fnumber1user said: You'd be buying with warranty, and if it visually meets your criteria I don't see what the true concern is? Hi, no issue with buying a demonstrator at all, just not so keen on an ex PEC car. Yes it will have warranty but with COVID there is no opportunity to see the car. Of course I could wait and this is my choice, I’m just trying to establish some history of what I’m buying.

Did an Audi driving experience day at Silverstone a few years ago, warranty or not I’d not be buying one of those cars. A few months later and my son was looking at S3’s , there were plenty available nationwide with very low mileage in the exact colour we’d been driving at Silverstone. You pays the money....

There’s really not much other than using Launch Control that would tax the cars at the PEC. Most of it is pretty tame. It wouldn’t bother me. They are probably better looked after than any OPC demonstrator

Would have to be a pretty amazing deal to tempt me. Looked at a turbo once that was ex PEC. As my first special car purchase I couldn’t do it. I’d feel like the guy who just married Pamela Anderson every time I drove it...

7184c said: Would have to be a pretty amazing deal to tempt me. Looked at a turbo once that was ex PEC. As my first special car purchase I couldn’t do it. I’d feel like the guy who just married Pamela Anderson every time I drove it... Errrr....I’m starting to think I only want an ex PEC car now!

Cheib said: There’s really not much other than using Launch Control that would tax the cars at the PEC. Most of it is pretty tame. It wouldn’t bother me. They are probably better looked after than any OPC demonstrator Agree, wouldn't bother me, certainly with a PDK.

I asked that very question at the PEC. He was pretty open about it, all cars are on a Reading (R) plate, they tend to be let go when they have 3-4K miles. They go onto the internal Porsche auction site where dealers buy cars from each other to balance out their stock, so a PEC car could turn up anywhere. PEC cars obviously chew tyres & brakes so this is sorted pre sale and an occasionally, but not always an oil change... Personally I’d be inclined to avoid any Porsche with an R plate, 3-4K miles and fresh tyres or any sign they’d been replaced like marks from old balancing weights. They are plenty of others that have not been launched 4 times a day!

Not sure I see the problem with PEC cars any more than press or Porsche mgt.cars. Plenty of 12/24 month old 991/2' are with OPC's with 2/2500 miles are probably not properly run in or used. After all these cars are built for performance use.

The Porsche service history log book thing usually lists “central operations” when it’s a PEC car

How about a press car? I saw before Christmas that the press GT2RS was advertised at East London. I think it was £285k with about 13k miles.

Cheib said: There’s really not much other than using Launch Control that would tax the cars at the PEC. Most of it is pretty tame. It wouldn’t bother me. They are probably better looked after than any OPC demonstrator Do you think they are subject to earlier/ more frequent servicing e.g. oil changes than a typical OPC demo? Most demos would not clock up sufficient miles or time to require a service.

Nuttcase said: Cheib said: There’s really not much other than using Launch Control that would tax the cars at the PEC. Most of it is pretty tame. It wouldn’t bother me. They are probably better looked after than any OPC demonstrator Do you think they are subject to earlier/ more frequent servicing e.g. oil changes than a typical OPC demo? Most demos would not clock up sufficient miles or time to require a service. They’ve got a full time tech and have just built a new service facility there...so I assume he keeps himself busy working on the cars! When I was there on a Performance Day last year in my own car one of the other drivers had his own 1980’s SC there which started playing up. Tech was all over it and diagnosed what was wrong in a matter of minutes and fixed it. He’s apparently a bit of a legend in Porsche GB tech circles

I would also give the paintwork a good once over as those cars are washed many times every day.

Big thumbs up to the Tech guy at the PEC. Was there last year in my GT3 and managed to ‘pop out’ a drive shaft (dodgy torquing up of bolts by an indie following an LSD strip down). He diagnosed the problem, towed into the workshop and sorted on the spot. Great service.

N111BJG said: I would also give the paintwork a good once over as those cars are washed many times every day. That’s a good point.

Was interested in a great spec. very low miles (less than 1k) late manual 2017 991.2 recently until I found out it was owned by PGB! It was a shame because it was something I fancied and happy to pay a premium over a ' used' car but the low mileage over 3 years made me question its usage I just felt I was better off looking for a lightly used( less than 10k) private owner at not such a premium. Also a car with such low miles could be more trouble than a used example. Personally would always avoid a demo or PGB car ie a number plate starting with a R. With regards to the clean PEC cars they are basically treated to the scratch and shine style of car wash as are most OPC hence never let them wash my car after a service!

Hamperman said: Sorry for bumping, anyone able to help on this? I was told all PEC cars are registered on a reg plate starting with R but is this 100% accurate?

Do they still have the yellow GT3RS there?

Shiverman said: They also indicate every car that comes out of Reading, Guildford and I think the London OPC's that are owned by Porsche GB The registration depicts at which Dvla office the car had been registered. R is Reading L would be London and Guildford would be Surrey and P

Tripe Bypass said: Do they still have the yellow GT3RS there? They don’t sell any of the GT cars, they’ve got them all their still. You can rent the GT cars for the day on Precision Days rather than use your own car or they do half day experiences so you can compare the different generations https://www.porsche.com/silverstone/en/experience/...

Cheib said: There’s really not much other than using Launch Control that would tax the cars at the PEC. Most of it is pretty tame. It wouldn’t bother me. They are probably better looked after than any OPC demonstrator I.... ahem.... my have had a control issue and launched their 997.2RS off the low grip track - the one where you do the drifting not the wet ones.

tedblog said: The registration depicts at which Dvla office the car had been registered. R is Reading L would be London and Guildford would be Surrey and P P is Preston. A Porsche from Guildford will probably have R prefix as it is the Porsche Retail Group, so we are back to Reading registered cars again...

Cheib said: Tripe Bypass said: Do they still have the yellow GT3RS there? They don’t sell any of the GT cars, they’ve got them all their still. You can rent the GT cars for the day on Precision Days rather than use your own car or they do half day experiences so you can compare the different generations https://www.porsche.com/silverstone/en/experience/... So they don't sell the Porsche Experience GT cars but they do sell the press GT cars?

tedblog said: Shiverman said: They also indicate every car that comes out of Reading, Guildford and I think the London OPC's that are owned by Porsche GB The registration depicts at which Dvla office the car had been registered. R is Reading L would be London and Guildford would be Surrey and P I was told by Guildford when I bought my car that ALL Porsche retail group cars are registered via Reading so all have R plates.

Tripe Bypass said: Cheib said: Tripe Bypass said: Do they still have the yellow GT3RS there? They don’t sell any of the GT cars, they’ve got them all their still. You can rent the GT cars for the day on Precision Days rather than use your own car or they do half day experiences so you can compare the different generations https://www.porsche.com/silverstone/en/experience/... So they don't sell the Porsche Experience GT cars but they do sell the press GT cars? I don’t know about the press cars definitively but they still own “HBY’ which is the press 997.2 RS demo and they also own the 991.1 RS demo as well as I’ve seen that in an article recently. I can tell you for example the PEC still has it’s manual Crayon 991.2 GT3 as I did a Performance Day last year in mine and the instructor was in there one as the day was “follow my leader”. Edited by Cheib on Sunday 31st January 21:16

Cheib said: Tripe Bypass said: Do they still have the yellow GT3RS there? They don’t sell any of the GT cars, they’ve got them all their still. You can rent the GT cars for the day on Precision Days rather than use your own car or they do half day experiences so you can compare the different generations https://www.porsche.com/silverstone/en/experience/... Aren't the GT cars something like £1800 to rent for the day?

Tripe Bypass said: Cheib said: Tripe Bypass said: Do they still have the yellow GT3RS there? They don’t sell any of the GT cars, they’ve got them all their still. You can rent the GT cars for the day on Precision Days rather than use your own car or they do half day experiences so you can compare the different generations https://www.porsche.com/silverstone/en/experience/... Aren't the GT cars something like £1800 to rent for the day? Yup but plenty of people rent them. When I was on a Precision Day one of the other drivers rented rather than used his own 991.2 GT3 RS....don’t really understand it to be honest.

Far too much thought being given to the 'R' prefix registration theory, a complete red herring. I am baffled they display registration plates on the cars for this very reason! I've never visited the Porsche Experience Centre but I am guessing they aren't in the habit of letting people run wild, with the exception of Jonathan Palmer days I've always found these 'track experiences' to be rather tame. Press car, I'd probably want to avoid... If you want to go Inspector Clouseau I would expect they replace the disc/pads/tyres. So if the car has covered 4-5k miles and the discs have no sign of wear then that would raise a few eyebrows.

Cheib said: I don’t know about the press cars definitively but they still own “HBY’ which is the press 997.2 RS demo and they also own the 991.1 RS demo as well as I’ve seen that in an article recently. I can tell you for example the PEC still has it’s manual Crayon 991.2 GT3 as I did a Performance Day last year in mine and the instructor was in there one as the day was “follow my leader”. Edited by Cheib on Sunday 31st January 21:16 A lot of the GT cars are pre-production cars so they cannot be sold on and is why PEC hold onto them.

NS13 said: A lot of the GT cars are pre-production cars so they cannot be sold on and is why PEC hold onto them. I was told by an instructor that if or when they're done with them the pre-production GT cars get crushed. We were discussing the just arrived GT silver GT2RS and he said that's what would happen to that particular car. I think that's also what happened to the green GT3RS that they used for the Isle Of Mann launch.

I did the experience day there quite a few years ago. As part of the welcome speech the guy from Porsche said "you can give the cars as much stick and abuse as you want as you will be driving the SE model. SE stands for 'Someone else's"

I have thrashed the s t out of the cars at the PEC. They did make us warm up the engines first, at least..

Schmed said: I have thrashed the s t out of the cars at the PEC. They did make us warm up the engines first, at least.. Can you thrash them though? All have rev limiters and only one straight that you can hit around the 100mph mark?

markda said: Far too much thought being given to the 'R' prefix registration theory, a complete red herring. I am baffled they display registration plates on the cars for this very reason. Reading sell alot of cars so anything with an R prefix could be a PEC car? If thats your thinking then you,d worry about all the cars. If you were looking to purchase privately then some buyers leave private plate on until its sold. Would you then worry if had a R plate on it Edited by tedblog on Friday 5th February 10:37

I'm not worried, OP was... I live in Berkshire, majority of Porsche vehicles around here have an 'R' prefix registration pretty sure less than 1% them have a press or Porsche experience centre history and >25% of them have been driven far worse/suffered accident damage/wheels bashed up and patched up by independent garages on the cheap. Moral of the story... you never really know what you are buying unless it's new or you know all previous owners.

Porsche GB are based in Reading so it'd make sense that their demonstrators are registered there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_ZzBD13u10&ab...

markda said: I'm not worried, OP was... I live in Berkshire, majority of Porsche vehicles around here have an 'R' prefix registration pretty sure less than 1% them have a press or Porsche experience centre history and >25% of them have been driven far worse/suffered accident damage/wheels bashed up and patched up by independent garages on the cheap. Moral of the story... you never really know what you are buying unless it's new or you know all previous owners. I’m the OP and I’m not worried, I was trying to establish if a car I was looking at was an ex PEC car. If it was then I wouldn’t expect it to priced the same as an equivalent car that wasn’t ex PEC. The fact that people have contributed to this thread with differing views just goes to show that if you bought an ex PEC and then tried to sell it later down the line it would turn some people off. That’s a fact.

tedblog said: Schmed said: I have thrashed the s t out of the cars at the PEC. They did make us warm up the engines first, at least.. Can you thrash them though? All have rev limiters and only one straight that you can hit around the 100mph mark? That’s not entirely right. Most cars will only go around their little circuit but I did a two day course that was mainly around the main silverstone circuit. I hired a cayman S and it was hitting around 145 on the straight.

Many buyers quite rightly are reluctant to buy any ex hire car never mind a Porsche having had 1000s of different drivers despite many rental fleets having reasonable quality stock which is invariably not serviced properly and usually by 'on site' operatives who do not service according to manufacturers recommendations btw. Prime example is Motorpoint whose stock is largely ex rental including Enterprise etc many cars are not serviced at all. I drove a GT3 RS and Turbo S at the Pec both which had been subject to 1000s of launch starts. After 3 hours in the GT3 RS mainly round the track I got through a set of tyres the car was reshod and then subject to a display of numerous donuts to impress someones girlfriend lol. Yes the cars being Porsches can take the pain but would I personally buy a thrashed ex PEC car which has been constantly subjected to maximum transmission loads etc instead of an equivalent lightly used 1 owner one driver cared for car? Nope.

Just to add my two pennies. I found this thread when doing a bit of research into one of their days in my own car. Yes the cars have been thrashed but if you extend the warranty, which I do on mine and intend to for the whole time I own it then surely any issues will read their head e.g. a gearbox dropping its arse out (technical terminology)

Davey S2 said: I did the experience day there quite a few years ago. As part of the welcome speech the guy from Porsche said "you can give the cars as much stick and abuse as you want as you will be driving the SE model. SE stands for 'Someone else's" Nail , head , hit , the ............. Thread Closed*

Far Cough said: Nail , head , hit , the ............. Thread Closed* Yep, my last session in July was mainly spent doing donuts around the low friction bowl whilst being encouraged to keep the revs up by the instructor over the radio

Resurrecting this thread. Porsche Solihull have a PDK Cayman R that was a PEC car, also has PCCBs. Presume the PCCBs likely to have worn heavily given how it was likely used. Is there an easy way to measure ? IIRC Porsche centres had special equipment to measure ?

Kananga said: Resurrecting this thread. Porsche Solihull have a PDK Cayman R that was a PEC car, also has PCCBs. Presume the PCCBs likely to have worn heavily given how it was likely used. Is there an easy way to measure ? IIRC Porsche centres had special equipment to measure ? Pretty sure they measure the thickness of the discs

They measure the disc at three points on each with a Carboteq device. If you look on the PCCB you will notice three pairs of numbers with a dash in-between each pair. This is the starting point and the reading below which the disc is considered to be finished. OPC's have these devices but the disc should run theory be removed to avoid possibly spurious readings ... hence it is a bit of a pain unless the discs are already off the car. These were the readings off one of my cars with the discs off the car .... That did include a lot of track days, but this was the reason I made the investment in a set of Surface Transform discs, both used with the same Pagid RSC1 pads ... the ST's run much cooler and whilst a set of pads on the PCCB's was lasting only 3 to 4 trackdays due to heat damage to the pad structure, with the ST's fitted pads would last a whole season and there was far less heat soak into the calipers and brake fluid, making the standard brake lines flex less (saving me braided lines) ...

Thanks. That is really useful, much appreciated.

I have done a few 911 PEC days, they are brilliant fun. Much of that is down to the fact the car is not yours. The instructors are brilliant too and really push the drivers out of their driving comfort zones. I would not want one of the cars second hand if given the choice - they get really thrashed. Loads of launches, loads of massive braking (push the pedal as hard as you can sir), tyres destroyed in a day, 7mpg or less on the clock. It made me realise that I would not get close to using 50% of the basic cars basic ability on a public road, which raised the question of why spec any higher than C2 or T, unless you do track days or something. I also came away thinking their must be a link between the failure rate of the active engine mounts on the S/C models models and the number of 400 bhp 8,000 rpm launches carried out. The engine must literally be trying to twist itself out of the car on launch (as you would expect). I do push on in my 992 and at 80,000 miles the original steel brakes and pads are still OK, as is everything else interestingly.

ChrisW. said: They measure the disc at three points on each with a Carboteq device. If you look on the PCCB you will notice three pairs of numbers with a dash in-between each pair. This is the starting point and the reading below which the disc is considered to be finished. OPC's have these devices but the disc should run theory be removed to avoid possibly spurious readings ... hence it is a bit of a pain unless the discs are already off the car. These were the readings off one of my cars with the discs off the car .... That did include a lot of track days, but this was the reason I made the investment in a set of Surface Transform discs, both used with the same Pagid RSC1 pads ... the ST's run much cooler and whilst a set of pads on the PCCB's was lasting only 3 to 4 trackdays due to heat damage to the pad structure, with the ST's fitted pads would last a whole season and there was far less heat soak into the calipers and brake fluid, making the standard brake lines flex less (saving me braided lines) ... Curious to learn how many trackdays for the PCCBs to get to roughly 50%?

I had raced in the Porsche Club Championship (slowly !) but this car was of course only used for trackdays and it being run-in carefully and used regularly from new, I should say no more than 15 trackdays to the 9000 miles ... with three new sets of pads. By comparison I reckon the ST's are good for about 60 or more good track days ... but when mine were skimmed and re-infused at Surface Transform I was told that they only skimmed 50 microns off each side and a further 50 microns in total when finishing them. The maximum skim across numerous refurbishments is 1.5mm so the maximum life of the discs would be at least four or five times with my use. The cost at the time was £2500 + vat.

Fnumber1user said: You'd be buying with warranty, and if it visually meets your criteria I don't see what the true concern is? Wheel bearings get some hammer on the track and on the skid pan (well, they did with me as I kept on sliding onto t he dry bit !) I would not want to buy a PEC car without being told and having a reasonable discount.

Gary C said: Fnumber1user said: You'd be buying with warranty, and if it visually meets your criteria I don't see what the true concern is? Wheel bearings get some hammer on the track and on the skid pan (well, they did with me as I kept on sliding onto t he dry bit !) I would not want to buy a PEC car without being told and having a reasonable discount. Very true Gary. I will buy just about anything too if its cheap enough.

Gary C said: Wheel bearings get some hammer on the track and on the skid pan (well, they did with me as I kept on sliding onto t he dry bit !) I would not want to buy a PEC car without being told and having a reasonable discount. Having been lucky enough to have several laps of Weissach in the hands of a development driver and seen the extensive workshops there which contained a row of 959s being serviced we were told all cars that were sold on to the public were gone through fully and were prep’d better than anything off the production line. Not sure if Reading is a through.

David W. said: Having been lucky enough to have several laps of Weissach in the hands of a development driver and seen the extensive workshops there which contained a row of 959s being serviced we were told all cars that were sold on to the public were gone through fully and were prep d better than anything off the production line. Not sure if Reading is a through. Still would want to know, and also see the overrev report and know if it had been reset

ChrisW. said: They measure the disc at three points on each with a Carboteq device. If you look on the PCCB you will notice three pairs of numbers with a dash in-between each pair. This is the starting point and the reading below which the disc is considered to be finished. OPC's have these devices but the disc should run theory be removed to avoid possibly spurious readings ... hence it is a bit of a pain unless the discs are already off the car. These were the readings off one of my cars with the discs off the car .... That did include a lot of track days, but this was the reason I made the investment in a set of Surface Transform discs, both used with the same Pagid RSC1 pads ... the ST's run much cooler and whilst a set of pads on the PCCB's was lasting only 3 to 4 trackdays due to heat damage to the pad structure, with the ST's fitted pads would last a whole season and there was far less heat soak into the calipers and brake fluid, making the standard brake lines flex less (saving me braided lines) ... Thanks Chris for sharing this really helpful post. The OPC that is selling a PCCB equipped car sent across measurements, showing the thickness of the discs. Given it was an ex-PEC car (Cayman R), I wanted some assurance on the brake condition. I mentioned that I’d like some more info, using the specialist tools. Was sent the following reply: “… The tool you are asking about is not compatible for this age car. This is reason for the measurements that were provided yesterday…”. I assumed the Carboteq tool was compatible but the OPC claiming not. Also they indicated a like-for-like battery replacement (the car was spec’d with the expensive lightweight battery from new). I probed about the part number for the replacement battery and was only then informed that they have fitted a standard (non lightweight) battery as the expensive one is on back order and they won’t have info about availability for a few weeks.

av185 said: Many buyers quite rightly are reluctant to buy any ex hire car never mind a Porsche having had 1000s of different drivers despite many rental fleets having reasonable quality stock which is invariably not serviced properly and usually by 'on site' operatives who do not service according to manufacturers recommendations btw. Prime example is Motorpoint whose stock is largely ex rental including Enterprise etc many cars are not serviced at all. I drove a GT3 RS and Turbo S at the Pec both which had been subject to 1000s of launch starts. After 3 hours in the GT3 RS mainly round the track I got through a set of tyres the car was reshod and then subject to a display of numerous donuts to impress someones girlfriend lol. Yes the cars being Porsches can take the pain but would I personally buy a thrashed ex PEC car which has been constantly subjected to maximum transmission loads etc instead of an equivalent lightly used 1 owner one driver cared for car? Nope. + 1, not a chance in hell

Kananga said: Resurrecting this thread. Porsche Solihull have a PDK Cayman R that was a PEC car, also has PCCBs. Presume the PCCBs likely to have worn heavily given how it was likely used. Is there an easy way to measure ? IIRC Porsche centres had special equipment to measure ? Hi Kananga. I’ve been nosing around this car too. Beautiful spec. Still awaiting the 111 point report but a bit peeved as they are advertising it as an approved used car which therefore incudes the Porsche warrenty but they’ve clarified (correctly) that due to the age the car will only get an after market (very basic) cover. Also originally the ad said full PSH but again not true (1 indie). Little things maybe but takes the shine off what is a higher price car. Sales manager told me it’d never been past Rev range 2 (makes sense as it’s Pdk). We shall see what the report shows.

RS Guy said: av185 said: Many buyers quite rightly are reluctant to buy any ex hire car never mind a Porsche having had 1000s of different drivers despite many rental fleets having reasonable quality stock which is invariably not serviced properly and usually by 'on site' operatives who do not service according to manufacturers recommendations btw. Prime example is Motorpoint whose stock is largely ex rental including Enterprise etc many cars are not serviced at all. I drove a GT3 RS and Turbo S at the Pec both which had been subject to 1000s of launch starts. After 3 hours in the GT3 RS mainly round the track I got through a set of tyres the car was reshod and then subject to a display of numerous donuts to impress someones girlfriend lol. Yes the cars being Porsches can take the pain but would I personally buy a thrashed ex PEC car which has been constantly subjected to maximum transmission loads etc instead of an equivalent lightly used 1 owner one driver cared for car? Nope. + 1, not a chance in hell + 2, I doubt many people think the same as David W.

Dazza523 said: Hi Kananga. I ve been nosing around this car too. Beautiful spec. Still awaiting the 111 point report but a bit peeved as they are advertising it as an approved used car which therefore incudes the Porsche warrenty but they ve clarified (correctly) that due to the age the car will only get an after market (very basic) cover. Also originally the ad said full PSH but again not true (1 indie). Little things maybe but takes the shine off what is a higher price car. Sales manager told me it d never been past Rev range 2 (makes sense as it s Pdk). We shall see what the report shows. I had a deposit on it but stepped away after frustrations (email me if you’d like details). Think at a minimum, I’d want some more details on the PCCB wear, given it was a PEC car. They told me that had 2-3 other buyers lined up but I’ve just seen it has now been listed on the Porsche approved used system. Just to be clear, I was told it would be supplied with a 6m Sytner warranty and not a 2 year Porsche warranty. Believe not all services are OPC either (despite me being told they were). Also, they have replaced the lightweight battery with a regular one, which I suspect is due to cost (but I was given some reasons relating to availability).

They listed it as pre-owned rather than approved pre-owned. I don't think they could issue a Porsche 2 year warranty or even 1 year warranty as the car is 15 years old (the limit for extended warranty) this summer.

Nuttcase said: They listed it as pre-owned rather than approved pre-owned. I don't think they could issue a Porsche 2 year warranty or even 1 year warranty as the car is 15 years old (the limit for extended warranty) this summer. Correct, that makes sense given the age of the car.

If the car is 15 years old I would think that the fact it was a pec car some 13/14 years ago had little in the way of relevance.