Blackstone vs. Speeddiagnostix

One company better than other? Same tests? Anything specific to order not in their basic test?

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Yes. One company does diagnostics based on years of research into oil chemistry and the other only sells test results.

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Was looking for more specific advice.

I've done both. Blackstone is old school with a few decades of experience. They do their own testing. I've used them for my Volvo XC60 with positive results. Speediagnostix is newer and sends their oil samples to a lab. I chose them over Blackstone for my 911 as they are billed to look for specific metals that can identify problems with the M96 engines. I got the report back with some cautionary flags along with an email that said if you have any questions just ask. The email I sent asking for more explanation was never returned. I brought it here to forum and this was the result. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-thoughts.html Later this summer I'm going to do a Blackstone of the 911 to get a comparison.

I've been using Blackstone for MANY years, and will continue to until I have my engine rebuilt. I don't rely on Blackstone to diagnose my results, I took the UOA class from Knowledge Gruppe in order to do that. I have a long history with Blackstone with my 996(3+ years resulting in 7 oil changes) so I'd rather have that, and use the same test procedure for now. Once I have the new engine, I'm switching to SpeedDiagnostix due to their testing procedure. I consider Blackstone the Harbor Freight of UOA whereas SpeedDiagnostix is the Snap-on of UOA. BS is good, SD is superior. If you know what to look for in a UOA, and you want to save money, go with BS. If you don't know how to read a UOA and you want a superior testing procedure, go SD. Just reading wear metals in the UOA is missing the point.

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Wow, I missed that thread. That's a scary report. Sorry! I'd replace the injectors ASAP, change the oil, drive 1000 miles and then get another UOA.

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What metals that Blackstone does not do? TangerineDream at the below link posted reports from both companies. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...o-or-link.html Differences: Speediagnostix does vanadium Blackstone does nickel, silver, barium and insolubles Speediagnostix has viscosity @100C and oxidation value Blackstone has SUS viscosity @ 210F, cST viscosity @ 100C and flashpoint Googled vanadium. Didn't find that it is in our engines , but is present in crude oil out of Mexico and the Caribbean.

I believe they both report on the same metals. Just there are at least 2 ways of doing the analysis and SpeedDiagnostix does the superior process. I can't remember the specifics of the 2 procedures, I just remember that SpeedDiagnostix was the more advanced process. Also SpeedDiagnostix looks at M96/M97 engine specifics when doing their diagnosis and Blackstone does a generic diagnosis. Either is better than no UOA, but SpeedDiagnostix is the best...and most expensive of the 2.

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Why are we saying they are the best? it is my understanding they don't do their own analysis and they don't respond well to emails. Could be an isolated case on the communication. Best,

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Thats precisely why they�re better. They send it to a lab that does a superior test. My doctor doesn�t run his own lab results but he�s a great doctor. He leaves that to the lab experts that spend lots of money to have the best equipment instead of using older equipment in house. I can�t speak to SpeedDiagnostx�s customer service.

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In Florida, at least, doctor's can not have their own labs or a financial interest in a lab. Prevents profiting off unnecessary tests. Is there any objective evidence that Speediagnostic does a better test? The numbers on their test and the Blackstone test are very similar.

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I have Oma1, OMA2 STLE Certifications (oil monitoring analyst), machine analyst, etc. It seems what speed diagnostics is doing is just reading commenting on somebody else�s report. I used to certify labs all over the world, I would even send blind samples that I would prepare in our lab to see how good the lab readings were, bunch of times labs equipment is out of calibration. Since I had a lot of business in Latin America and continental now United has a hub here Houston George bush intercontinental had direct flights quick turnarounds. The company is called analyst inc, they are in stafford Texas. I used to take customers over there for tours. And as you guess I also counseled and sent immediate notifications to customers on crucial analysis. This is a big lab they do a ton of samples they have state of the art equipment and they use to calibrate frequently. I spoke to them a few months ago and they are still in the business, I still have sample tubing in my office and I found my sample pump case in the garage but not the pump. Anyway just so you know. If I was in need I would go there because I can personally deliver the sample. Advice so that you get the closest real situation of whatever mechanical equipment oil you are sampling send the oil sample right away. Squirrel 🐿 you may consider them since you are basically local. I personally would not trust a company that does not do their own testing.

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Hm, I'm not to far away either. Just called them, they will do mail-in, customer service was at lunch. I'll find out what they charge and all the particulars and post it here.

Generating numbers from a test is one thing. Of course you want them as accurate as possible but the true value is how you interpret the collected data and how it applies to your car / engine.

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Have you ever been to bobistheoilguy.com? Lot's of folks with your kind of credentials hang out there.

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i don�t work no more. My work is actually managing my portfolio, I spent a considerable amount of time following the companies I own. I.e Ford Launched their all electric F150 yesterday, Tesla better watch out. Also I spend time cooking and planning the menu, zbomb called me the ***!!! BBQ, yes I grilled and smoked meat, chicken, pork weekly. Anyway if you need help reading an analysis I�m here, I live in Katy. Just what I�m thinking and now I also got an early 996. If you have a super expensive piece of equipment you do oil analysis as preventive maintenance or if you are doing condition base oil changes (where you change oil at point of certain results on used oil analysis). As long as the oil, filter look good on my car I�m not going to analyze the oil, I�m not tracking my car. I�m keeping the fuel system as clean as possible and I have learned how to drive the car. I�m also doing frequent oil changes. Anyway a Porsche dealership quoted me less than $9 thousand on a short block with warranty, they told me is a 3 to 5 business day turnaround, that was Monday.

I like to support local/small businesses and since BlackStone is local, I walk the sample in and have my report usually the next day.

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agree with you 100 percent. We go to sometimes hole in wall restaurants not big chain. Also AMEX has a period during the year (shop small) I�ll support that 100 percent, plus get whatever discount is being offered,

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Frank, we never received any email from you for the test kit you purchased and I also checked with Lake and he had no correspondence either from you. Sounds like the email might have gone to spam or just never made it through. For those who purchase their SDX kits from us, we're always available by email to discuss the results if there are any questions, as do many of you already. If you have questions about your results, please feel free to open a support ticket with us and we'll be happy to review them.

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Speediagnostix uses the RDE method rather than ICP that Blackstone uses. As it has been explained to me, RDP has about twice the resolution and can see particles up to 10 micron, there ICP is 5 micron. SDX also includes separate FTIR and GC tests with reporting for oil oxidation levels (more accurate than TBN) and more accurate reporting of coolant and fuel contamination. Shipping to the lab is also included. That's why there is added cost over Blackstone.

There you go, that’s a huge advantage there. Not very many people know more about the M96 engine than Charles. If Charles(or Lake or Jake or Tony) can be brought in to look at your Porsche M96 UOA, then SD is an advantage.

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To whoever is doing Used oil analysis, make sure that you have multiple samples. I have seen many people taken down an engine for no reason. What is important is the trend. Never make a decision on just one oil sample. I don�t have a clue if any of these labs provides laboratory cleaned bottles, yes you can obtain bottles that are ultra clean.

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Charles- Good to hear from you. I simply replied to the email from Caroline as it stated if you have any questions please let us know. There was not a reply and I never followed up after that. I did purchase the kit from LN so I will open a ticket and see if we can't have a conversation about this analysis. Not trying to start something in the court of internet forums. I waited a bit and floated it out here. I was also in back of my head wondering if someone from Speeddiagnostix would be following this social media posting. This kind of stuff can get real stupid real fast and I would like to conduct professional business at al times. I'm a slow but steady kind of guy and I've got a ton of patience to share with you. Let's talk more about this as we are able. I wish you the very best,

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Great. I'll be on the lookout for the ticket. If needed, I can loop Lake in to discuss.

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@ltusler has experienced this very thing first hand. After 200 or so track hours with UOA at each service I was able to look at the UOA and predict a failure if the engine was further operated. I did not use wear metals to determine this. The very next outing, the engine failed. It was the end of a race season, with no time for a repair, and points were on the table. This was before Speeddiagnostix was a company doing work for the public, but the same service used that later formed Speed into a company doing this work for individuals. We'd been working together ope all of this since 2008, and Speed is the only company that I will trust results from. This is of course based on direct experience.

If I had to guess I would say the communication breakdown might be on SD's email end. I too recently responded to their UOA results email with a question and never got any acknowledgment. It was a minor issue regarding the results of the most recent UOA not appearing side by side will all the previous SD UOA on the same vehicle and I didn't bother following up further. I always buy my SD UOA kits from LN so its nice to know Charles is available should I have questions in the future.

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You know @TexSquirrel lives near you, and I'm in San Antonio. If I get to your neck of the woods I'll PM you and let's get some lunch, or just drive fast!

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[pedantry] Isn't 10 microns (or 10 micrometers) LARGER than 5 micrometers? IE, two particles that are 5 microns across would fit in the same space as one 10 micron particle? [/pedantry]

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I believe i heard during the Jake/Charles/Lake/Tony online presentation that some UOA ppm numbers can be deceiving and actually look as if they are dropping because the lab's method doesn't see particles that exceed a certain size, thus as the wear gets worse and particles get bigger, they are missed. That's why being able to see 10 microns is better than only being able to detect 5 micron max. That make sense?

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sure just let me know when you are headed this way. I live right off I 10 and grand parkway 99, so if you are coming fromSan Antonio you are passing right by the house. They are having a bad a?? Show on June 12 (the concourse the elegance) at Porsche Houston North, I went to the one in Kemah in March and it was amazing.

Terrible experience with SpeeDiagnostix in several regards. It's the best product from a technology standpoint but the customer service and the qualitative side of the analysis is horrendous. Here's my story YMMV: In mid-April 2021 I got my first SpeeDiagnostix UoA back and saw two alarming things: (1) the Silicon was flagged at 154ppm and (2) Moly was 0 ppm but this was not flagged at all even though they knew it was Driven DI40. Ok, everyone knows that the whole point of running a group 4 base oil (PAO true synthetic) with Moly is because it's a friction reducer.....and I want that for my engine. I am a 996TT guy but am running this in my turbo-charged direct injected Audi 2.0T engine so naturally I run Driven DI40. I had just done the timing chain because it was "stretched" so was thinking the high Silicon was probably from the OE Loctite sealant used for the lower timing case. I contacted SpeeDiagnostix and asked them to please confirm; they told me the Silicon value was not a mistake and that I should try buying their product to sample with a hose instead of the drain method (I'm sorry but this is completely ridiculous advice, how would this make the value 10 times too high, this should have been a warning sign to them to check their spreadsheet). Second they told me it is totally normal for DI40 to have 0 ppm Moly (this is complete BS and I was alarmed at getting such a ridiculous response back that I no longer trusted them). So with multiple warning signs I did not believe them. I am the type of person that doesn't just ask a question, I always want to know the WHY, and I noticed they would only respond with a yes/no type of answer and never provide reasoning. Anytime I was able to force a reason out of them it made no sense. So I continued to politely email the owners daughter back and forth asking for a virgin sample analysis of DI40 to benchmark against. She would respond right away "I'll get right back to you with that!!!" but then a week would go by with nothing and when I emailed her she respond "Thanks for the reminder!" How about just sending me what I asked for instead of emailing me back thanks for a reminder. She sent me DT40, confusing it for DI40 (unbelievable), and it had no Boron or Silicon. When I asked about these measures she said they didn't have them (but this makes no sense, every oil they have on the website has Boron and Silicon values). Anyway, I finally just got fed up with this having literally wasted countless hours talking to someone that doesn't have a clue and I started asking Lake for it. I'll save you a lot of time and cut to the chase that their analysis template had errors in it. The Silicon value was accidently multiplied by 10 and the Moly value was not being looked up correctly in their template. I am not upset that a mistake was made; we are all human. What I am upset about is that I pointed BOTH of these out and gave them numerous opportunities to look into it but they either blew me off or got back to me with grossly incorrect information. In my job it is ok to make a mistake but if someone calls it out or asks you to look into it, by God, you had better be sure when you get back to them you either correct your mistake or make God damn sure you are right or I can promise you there will be Hell to pay. Fortunately I'm a logical person and know when something doesn't make any sense. This used oil analysis is completely worthless when it's this sloppy and I will not be using this company again. Honestly, Lake didn't even say thank you for finding the error in the template for them or apologize for all the time I wasted helping them find their errors. I do not know but I suspect it is certainly possible other customers could have been affected by this error in their template as well, so beware...........

I've not experienced any of this with Speed Diagnostix.. We do 15 samples or so per month, and have only used this com many since they went into business. Caroline has always gotten back to me promptly as well. We test the same samples all the time, the same mileage on all the oils, and etc. If there were big swings due to an error like this I could point it out in my stuff immediately, since I know exactly what values we should see over and over again. When did this occur? I'll go back to my results from that same week and see if anything looks different. I am sure nothing was alarming, else I would have seen it immediately.

This is my first experience using them....... but it is also my last. The analysis was done in mid-April and I just exchanged my last email with Lake/Caroline last night....... that's how long it took me to resolve this with them. Completely ridiculous. I am very put off by how sloppy they are. There were so many points of failure here I don't even know where to start. I personally have lost a lot of respect for Lake. I think he knows tribology and pistons but I can't say much more than that........

Before (got this April 21st): ...and after (Lake emailed me this last night after correcting his template):

Wow.. Ok, I just looked at all my April and May samples, and nothing looks odd in them.

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This is exactly what I pointed out about oil analysis places. A great lab will have at least 21 parameters measured and every used oil analysis before sent to customers the computer generated comments will be edited and add on by a certified OMA1 analyst, if bd as Certified OMA2. Don�t know about their numbers, what equipment are the using how frequently are they calibrating it, how many samples they run, etc. Again I used to certify used oil analysis labs all over the world, since we used toll blenders I would also blind test them ever three months (blender lab level one), Also we wanted to test the labs that we used for secondary qc (second outside lab for qc) on top of all of that every time I went to a country where we locally produced I would bring back oil samples and test as a third level check test. My business unit ran 500 samples per month thru different labs. Product wise I did not worked for Mickey Mouse oil company, I worked for Valvoline the oldest independent motor oil brand in the US, the first motor oil. The number one choice of ase certified mechanics god knows how many years in a row. If I see debris and I want to analyze i will be taking my samples to analysts inc in stafford Texas. Glad to know that I�m not the only one that sees knows issues like this. Is your engine protect it treat it like you want. Peace ✌️.

I agree. To your point that is also the funny thing: In the original report for the comments it says: " Silicon is really high so please check pages 2 and 3 for more information on that issue. Otherwise, this sample looks OK. " In the revised report it says: " Results indicate slight additive consumption, so try going 3,000 miles on the next oil change. " Think about this for a second. They didn't recommend dropping my 5K OCI down on the first analysis ... but now all of a sudden they are on the corrected analysis? That makes no sense. The corrected analysis has Silicon going way down and the Moly going up -- everything else stayed the same. So if you saw lower Si and higher Moly, why would you recommend to drop the OCI based on this alone? Nothing that comes out of that company makes any logical sense. I can see their process is very sloppy and if you submit 10 of the same sample I bet you get 10 slightly different reports back. I have seen enough based on my single experience with them on this UOA. Sometimes once you see what's actually used to make the meatloaf you're not really hungry for it anymore no matter how good you think it might taste.

We have not had any issues other than people not happy with finding out they had scored bores to then have the cylinders scoped to verify there was indeed an issue. I am not aware of any customer complaints about Speediagnostix and tons of our customers have used this service for years now without an issue. As I've stated before, I'm always happy to review UOA results for a second opinion. If you have purchased an SDX UOA kit from LN and experience any issues whatsoever, please let us know by opening a support ticket.

Hey, Charles. I am a computer science major from a big10 school that graduated the same year you did. I have read your papers on bore scoring and I have 20+ years experience on the NA and TT Porsche platform. We think a lot alike; but I am not with you guys on this one............. I have laid out clearly what happened with Speediagnostix. I got incorrect results, copious amounts of false and misleading information, and wasted tons of time with unprofessional staff. It's not just one single thing that happened here, it is many. There are even more ridiculous details I have left out but I don't want to be petty. I stand by my statements 110% and I am a very fair person. It's not really so much that I doubt their equipment and need a second opinion and honestly I can read the numbers myself so I didn't need them to hand hold me. But telling me DI40 has no Moly, confusing DT40 for DI40, saying there are no Boron and Silicon values available when all the oils on the website have them, that my 154 ppm Si is from using a drain method rather than buying their extraction hose.......? I don't know, I can name at least 5 things so fast off of the top of my head right now that occurred in this UOA experience I had with them that are completely embarrassing for anyone that calls themselves professional. I gave Lake a chance to make it right. His response? "We will do our best the next time to do a better job." You can't imagine what my bosses response would be in my line of work if that is the response I gave after hosing everything up like Speediagnostix did.

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I'm not discounting your experience. Please don't think that - I just wanted to point out in an instance like this, especially if you were having an issue, that if you purchased the kit from us we could have helped to get a more satisfactory resolution for you. Although I do not know the specifics, I did email Lake when I saw your post and he did say they did drop the ball on this and they were at fault. I would have certainly refunded the purchase price of the kit or offered another kit at no charge (which the offer still stands if you did purchase it from LN - please just contact us offline) as your experience for sure is not what we would expect from our own experiences with SDX. Sorry!

Disappointing to see this and not the first complaint. You'd typically want a testing lab in any industry to be completely independent of the products they test. We don't have that here. In fact the only defenders responding are related parties, past or present, in some manor of vendor, client, commission earned, consultancy or other financial interest. Not exactly full transparency. In days past some of the machines I drove had an oil analysis done monthly with never a worry or doubt about test accuracy. These labs would be Blackstone or AvLab. I didn't worry that if I reported using a certain oil just maybe the results might be skewed*. And do I understand this right, the subject of this complaint runs his oil test business out of his home with a third party doing the test? I think I'll go with the tried and true and at half the cost (imagine that). My full transparency? I'm not related to, or have financial interests in any of them. * if the results are not skewed based on the oil reported, such an inaccurate report seems almost worse.

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Lake hasn't been employed by Driven Racing Oils since late 2019 when he left to accept a position of VP of Sales at Total Seal Piston Rings where he remains today. To set the record straight, Lake has no financial interest in Driven either. And yes, LN sells Speediagnostix kits just like Summit Racing does as do many other outlets.

Thanks, Charles. I don't need my money back but thank you for offering -- and thank you for apologizing but you haven't done anything wrong. I got the service I paid for; it just took two months and a lot of emails but that's life. I don't have anything personally against Lake or Caroline. If someone offered me more money to switch jobs and do the same thing I probably would too all else equal. I just think the whole SpeeDiagnostix thing is a bunch of marketing and complete and utter bull**** now that I actually can see what that operation is. Caroline is like "Let me check with the analyst and get back to you".. "the analyst says you should buy the extraction hose from us and try that instead". How stupid do you think your customers are? That is insulting. It's maybe a good business idea so I applaud you guys for that but it was done so with ridiculously sloppy execution on the implementation. You can't have staff telling customers DI40 doesn't have Moly or confusing it with DT40 and ridiculous bull**** like that. If they really know what they are getting I don't really see why anyone would pay a premium for this service but if they will more power to you. I wasted a lot of time on this but I did learn something from it. And, alas, I am not crazy, there is Moly in DI40 after all! I was not trying to impress you or say I am experienced (entering into a thread with Jake Raby and Charles Navarro to tell how much you know doesn't really seem like a good idea at face value ) only pointing out that you and I share so many thing in common. I think you and Jake do have many real contributions in this space and I have tried to adapt some of those to help the Audi world where people are facing many of the same problems but are much further behind (maybe because there is no one there like you guys I don't know). I understand you are in the business to make money. I get up and put my shoes on in the morning to go out there and hustle just like everyone else.......... but I will never stop thinking independently for myself and wanting to know "why" instead of just blindly following someone's advice just because everyone else does or because I'm supposed to. Coincidently I had ordered a 2nd kit from LN last Saturday before I knew all this so if you can just let me return that (I'm happy to pay to ship it back) we can just call it even. I'll send an email to the support email that came in the order. Thanks again Charles.

The motor oil companies, shell(pennzoil,Quaker state) Exxon Mobil, Valvoline, Castrol, PSX (66,Kendal, Conoco) have technical support hotlines. A lot of them even offer some kind of engine guarantees, anyway my point is if you were using one of their products and had some type of concern you could contact them and tell them that you saw wear debris of that the particular oil didn�t seem to perform the same or whatever. Anyway I�m pretty sure that most of them with a good reputation would ask you to send them samples for analysis and some of them will even send you free of charge the kit to get an oil sample analyze at an independent lab. Due to counterfeit product into international market a lot of this guys put tracers in their oil (so to make sure is their oil).

That is interesting, I may call them at some point. I was also interested in looking into the oil analysis facility you mentioned above but it sounds like it's carry-in only and I'm not in TX. I trust Gibbs more than the oil companies and I have been happy with the results of Driven DI40. My biggest issue with the oil companies is they play games with "synthetic" when they are really selling you a group 1 or group 2 base oil, or it is only a 10% group 4 base oil blend or some scam like that. It's all legal BS that they are allowed to call it something it really isn't and same thing with Porsche A40 oil spec and all their BS oil specs. Marketing. People complain Driven is expensive but I bought a bunch of cases on Advanced Auto Parts while you could still use the 40% off coupon and I won't need to buy oil again for at least 5 years since this engine only uses 4.6 quarts. In my opinion, the irony of Speediagnostix's comments on my UOA is that my analysis at the 5K interval actually looked pretty good. A lot of people say the engine I'm running it in is trash, has severe oil consumption issues that cannot be escaped, has widespread timing chain and tensioner failures. But my engine has 90K miles on it, burns almost zero oil, and now that the timing chain has been replaced (I attribute this to long 10K OCI's before I bought the car CPO directly from Audi) I suspect I will never need to do it again (I did it 10K miles ago and it hasn't stretched since, they also updated their timing chains just like Porsche did though). These people don't understand direct injection and soot formation. In my opinion the single most important thing you can do for your engine is to run a high-quality chemically synthesized oil. My engine is going to be a real life high mileage experiment in this regard.

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The driven oil has group 3 Esther for solubility, some pao. Castrol is group 3. Mobil one is pao with Esther. JGR runs a hell of an operation but remember this are race engines, 500 miles. Not a passenger car, Anyway I was pretty involved with Hendricks and roush racing. Racing oil is a different animal. Another thing and this is where the mkt bull comes into play, Hendricks switched sponsorship to QS but continued to use Valvoline in their engines, this was Jeff Gordon number 24 time. There was a season when Jeff and mark Martin won almost all the races (Valvoline was the oil in both cars.) Analyst did the oil samples for my customers when I was at Valvoline and since all of them were from Latin America everything was shipped in. I think if you want to use them you will have to create the account pre pay the kits and then just shipped the samples. It�s not carry in only, I was going to take my samples because I�m local and I know some of them. in my opinion regarding an engine it always makes a huge difference on how it is maintained. My engine almost has no oil consumption. And ghetto is Porsche saying a quart every 500 miles or whatever it is.

My beef with it is the formulation can change and you can't really tell what the composition is in the first place as they aren't required to say and they don't. So you end up needing to trust them and I don't. It's only until you start getting into industrial grade lubricants like Chevron Phillips Chemical sells to companies and they will offer you some real specifications. But I don't see that for consumer grade oils. I do not claim to be an expert on any of this. I do not have a degree in chemistry and I am no lubrication engineer that is for sure (I studied computer science like Charles did at Northwestern). But I know enough to be able to ask the right questions even when it's something I don't know the most about and I can use logic to deduce and find out what's BS and not. Agree about maintenance but it's a shame you can't trust the OEMs on this. No engine should be consuming a quart every 500 miles or even every 1000 miles.... and no one should be doing 10K OCIs, even with real synthetic. If the oil doesn't break down by then the detergent package won't last. In some sense these newer directed injected engines with all this technology are really a completely different animal than their port injected predecessors and I never realized that until after owning one. They have huge advantages in many ways and the technology is outstanding, this car is very impressive in many ways like it can control the fuel trims so tightly and the newer cars can even more (piezo electric injectors, etc). But make no mistake there is no free lunch ; these advantages do not come without a cost. Soot formation is a major consideration and piston design, specifically oil control rings, has changed several times on this car as well as placement of the injectors and other adjustments they made. They also bumped up the vacuum spec from 5" H20 to 35" H20 to help ring seal. Which reminds me of another thing I like about the DI40 which is that it has a low level of volatization. I think this is another major issue especially with turbocharged direct injected engines and people that don't take care of their crankcase ventilation systems (AOS/PCV). In my case I replace my PCV preemptively every 50K miles and on my last one I found a failure of the PCV that was sending blow-by (quite a bit actually when I pulled the hose a ton of oil came out and it should only be a little) into my turbo inlet but the car was not coding, the vacuum spec with my manometer looked good, and there was no indication from a drivability standpoint.

Sending off a comparison sample to Blackstone today to see what they have to say. More to follow,

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You have a ton of issues with engine oils. There is an oil volatility test, you can do deposits, sulfates ash all kind of stuff people don�t know about and they never ask. Anyway because who I am I can identify myself ask the proper questions and get information that is not publicly available. I used to write PI sheets at one point in time and I used to provide a bunch of details that I don�t see today. At one point in time I was also in charge of the commercial and industrial business, here you really need to be on point these people really know their crap you cannot bs them. The reason Valvoline hired me away from Conoco signing bonus and 60 percent salary increase was because they wanted my technical knowledge, me being trilingual and what I believe they liked the most I could handle the business side , in addition to my international experience. I�m like yourself and ask for answers, in my mind the worst question is the one that you don�t ask. My wife and partner for the last 18 years has a computer science degree from Texas A&M, has worked at Shell, XOM, Citgo, Macquarie and JPM to name I few, I think I understand how you computer guys think.

Lake sent me an email this morning and told me that upon further review it was not a template error (he initially told me that's what it was) but rather a data entry error. Scary -- they do manual data entry for this and have no controls in place (facepalm). Clearly they don't have to deal with people like Audit......... So the good news is that there was no template error that others should beware of. But the bad news is that their process is obviously extremely operationally error prone now that I have a brief window into their sausage making process which employs techniques like manual data entry. Unbelievable. Maybe they should hire a CS undergrad coming out of school to write some VBA or just simple Excel cell rules to do error checking and automate the data. "How to know when you're good to go"... more like "If we don't fat finger your data you might get correct results" or "If you continue to pester the sh** out of us relentlessly for 8 weeks straight we might finally do our job" A good management team here would address this by stating what the path is forward and how they plan to address this and correct it. Not try to make excuses or say "lots of people used this service and liked it and didn't have the problems you did" sorry, you can tell I'm done suffering fools on this....................I was very polite for 2 months but now the gloves are off

Quotes source post: 17483646

Dude, don't know where you want to go with this. Sorry about your dilema, but maybe you should work directly with Speed on this. Good news is nothing has happened to your car. You are cluttering a perfectly good thread with stuff that should be taken off line.

This thread was dead for two weeks before I posted my story, which you apparently took zero time to read since I have been working with Caroline and Lake Speed for 2 months. Actually the smart thing would have been to contact Charles and LN right away as he said -- but at the time I had zero idea that was the correct avenue to pursue and when I contacted Speediagnostix orders email Lake responded but he kept pushing me to talk to Caroline instead. Anyway, keep drinking the Kool Aid, I still like Charles, Jake and Lake and have nothing bad to say about them. But I do have bad things to say about Speediagnostix. "The good news is nothing has happened to your car" is not the right way to look at this but you can continue to be a customer.. it's your engine and your money so like one of the posters said, Peace ✌️.

Quotes source post: 17483939

I have read all your threads. Best of luck to you. ​

Quotes source post: 17483860

I agree. This is looking like a vendetta. Silver_tt has made his point and so I think it's time to move on. I would think that Speediagnostix has many more positive customer experiences than negative or they'd be out of business by now. But this is classic forum fashion, as they say, "The squeaky wheel gets the oil!" (no pun intended) In the spirit of the original intent of the thread, when I had lots of work done on my 996, the shop strongly urged me to use a different UOA lab other than Blackstone. The reason was they were known to write "rosy" comments. In other works, no matter how serious the wear situation with an engine, they would say stuff like, "Great report", "Nothing to worry about", "Normal for this type of engine" or something like that. The shop would say customers would bring in cars that had serious engine wear, but the reports from Blackstone did not alert the owner to a potential problem in many cases. I guess the best advice is no matter what company you go with, make sure you know how to read your own UOA report. No one is going to care or protect your car like you do. We need more classes on this subject!

Quotes source post: 17484521

Do you have any examples of “rosy” Blackstone reports ? What shop ?

Quotes source post: 17484547

That recommendation came from the shop, not me. The owner asked me to not drag his company onto the automotive forums. He explained they do not have the time nor the staff to monitor it. I gave the owner my word and my word is my bond. The shop owner has gone over and above for me over the years and at least I can do is honor a simple request. I understand if you don't believe that statement. I'm just sharing my experience. Honestly, I've been a lazy owner and have not conducted any UOA on my 996, but have read many threads on the subject over the years and understand there are many other UOA laboratories out there that offer this service. And, I know a lot of people live by them, and as the value of our cars increase, it makes good sense to protect the investment.

33k miles on my 996.2 and 7 year in a row clean BS oil reports. Car has annual oil change, time not miles since new. Each spring like clock work since new. With IMSS and annual oil changes I only have 27.5 things now left, at least thats what Jake says I still need to worry about. I like BS. But hey, there is always a critic out there.

Quotes source post: 17482726

Hmmm, that was carefully worded. Mr. Speed states Total Seal and Joe Gibbs have a relationship and he still ENDORSES Driven Oils right on the LN site linked below. If I were to use his UOA I'd probably leave the oil brand blank, at least hoping for some degree of objectivity. UOA's are an important starting point for a lot of money being spent, or not. You Tube

Quotes source post: 17484521

We had moved on already, didn't you see my peace sign? -- but yes, I am angry. Guess what I get to do tomorrow? I have tons of work to do and a presentation Monday but guess what? I get to go buy the best 6 pack of the beer I can find and drive 45 minutes both ways to go see my indy to put my tail between my legs, hang my head in shame, walk up to him look him in the eyes and apologize to him like the man I am because I am responsible for my mistakes. I let him have it last time I was in there because I was SURE he had used too much of the Loctite Si-based sealant after he zipped it up after the timing chains/tensioners/cam bridge (Audi and their screens) was replaced, there was no other way to get a 154 ppm out of the blue like that??? -- I remember it in my head just like a movie, I was like "Johnny puts sealant on timing cases like my 4 year old puts toothpaste to be sure he doesn't get any leaks" and all the boys in the shop were laughing at him and he was just looking at me confused -- he really was. 25 years on the VW/Audi/Porsche platform and he has done that job so many times I can't even count. It all makes sense now -- I grilled him how he applied the sealant before telling him about my off the charts Si on my UOA and sure enough he basically read me the shop manual procedure from memory; dude is the best wrench I have ever been around hands down, met him through PCA racing 20 years ago. Anyway, our relationship will survive and I was wrong to blame him and I feel like such an idiot.

Quotes source post: 17484787

Hang in there. Nothing more frustrating than something we care about. Appreciate the closure.

Quotes source post: 17484916

Thanks. Yes, nothing more frustrating when it's something we care about or even more so when it's some one , as this is really the major damage in my case (it was not to my engine as you said). As far as closure goes it was never my intent to belabor this but this is not your thread and you are not an active participant in this situation. If you don't want to read about it you can simply unsubscribe from this thread but this is a free country and I'm 100% telling the truth, I posted the incorrect results, and I'm free to speak my opinion and provide factual updates (especially letting people know that Lake revised his statement in that my error was data entry and not a template error like he originally stated, which is very important information). If people are interested I'm happy to offer my pain to try to help them avoid a similar situation in the future; if they aren't interested I am not at all offended and they can just move along to the next post.

Quotes source post: 17484547

Here is a post from another thread on Rennlist from some time ago. As you can see, Blackstone either had a testing or data entry error on this on. Look at the moly content on the DT40 sample - it's clearly wrong. Case in point, errors can occur at any lab.

Charles, I am very surprised at your responses and I would not have expected this from you. No one was ever saying errors can't occur. But that's what good controls are for, to try to prevent this as much as possible. Everyone can make a mistake and that is ok. But in my case there were many, many mistakes even after I explicitly called out the errors. I mean that's a slam dunk when someone points out your errors for you. Just on my Si issue alone : -They fat fingered 154 instead of 15. A value ten times too high and didn't notice. -It was flagged in the report with a big red X and the entire comment was written based on this value. With such a high value and doing manual data entry, did they not think to double check this value if at no other time when doing commentary? -Sloppily they go ahead and send it out to the customer. Mistakes happen (especially when using manual data entry). But then that customer emails saying can you please confirm this value and asking what kind of things could cause a TEN TIMES higher value. -At that point they still do not double check the number but rather send me a response saying to buy a extraction hose from you and to sample that way instead . What??? As if this could really make a difference on the order of ten times. What a ridiculously stupid recommendation on every level and obviously just trying to sell me more. -I continue to email inquiring about this and no one thinks to simply just double check the work over a period of 2 months and a number of emails which I am embarrassed to count because I had to ask so many times and got stupid responses. Had I not been born a pushy son a b**** we never would have found this issue and I would still be sitting here wondering how in the Hell my Si got to 154 ppm or waiting for someone to simply send me back a virgin sample of DI40. That's like the most basic and simple straight-forward request, nothing fancy there. As I said, instead of making excuses and deflecting by pointing out past errors of your competitors a good management team would make process and controls improvements and state the path going forward and why this won't happen again. This is why I decided not to give this service another shot and sent an email last night requesting a return of the 2nd kit that came in the mail yesterday.

Quotes source post: 17485380

Again, I'm not discounting your poor experience. The situation was not handled correctly and everyone has admitted and accepted that as fact. You are new here so I know it's impossible for you to have been able to see each and every post made previously, but there have been instances where BS UOAs have been shared where there have been issues with the results. This is especially true when it comes to engines that have scored bores and BS stating that their air filter is dirty, stating that everything looks good, or comparing the wear levels to their universal levels as being normal which do not correlate with the M96 engine. I didn't dig up anything new - I just grabbed an image from an old thread showing that mistakes do happen since someone asked for an example. I can't say what changes Lake is doing to prevent this from happening again, but I'm sure he will make whatever changes are necessary to prevent an issue like this happening again in the future. For my part, we're going to add a note in every kit we sell moving forward that states: �If you need assistance with the SPEEDiagnostix used oil analysis service at any step during the process, please contact LN Engineering directly by emailing [email removed] for assistance.�

Thanks, Charles. I mean no disrespect to you, I want to be very clear about that. I have actually been around here a long time but when I moved into NYC I sold my 996TT and didn't login to RennList for a year and I think it deleted my account. At any rate..... I am a person that believes in science more than anything else, and that is why I liked you guys so much. Actually testing and proving our your ideas, which is something that almost no one does in this industry -- but you have to have good data (both accurate and precise) or else this UoA is completely worthless and cannot be used for anything more than some numbers fun. For your part I think adding that note in every kit is a great start. Put it in bold 25 point font. Had I just known I could have talked to you about this I'm pretty sure this would have not taken 8 weeks and with the correct virgin DI40 sample I would have been able to alert you of this error much earlier. I don't mean any disrespect to Lake or Caroline but he kept pushing me to talk to her and she just isn't a technical person and probably never will be. This is what happens when you start mixing family and business IMHO.

Quotes source post: 17485421

Charles you guys I mean LN are trying to do what you can. By this sistem, set up has issues. When I asked questioned what equipment did the lab use, I was trying to see how modern they are, manual data entry, big Nono. Then as you stated no knowing the metallurgy of the engine and confusion dirt with engine wear (silicon ), this is created by design comments in the automatic analysis of the system data. I also don�t think the lab or labs have certified analyst editing adding comments. Finally I do understand what lake is trying to do. He has a contract with a lab whatever that lab is an he gets volume discount, then he sell those to you guys, speed shops etc and then you guys sell to a customer. If what speed diagnostics is doing is really interpreting analysis for a customer and the have qualified people that is find and could be the solution to the problem that you pint pointed with BS. The whole thing has in my opinion to many different levels. I had to live with this one early 90s. Managing turnaround work at a union refinery welding on lines involved in using hf ( hydrofloryc acid in an alkylation unite where you make a high octane blending component for gasoline. The material was5 chrome, 9 chrome, anyway all welds are 100 X-ray, this is highly caustic stuff. Anyway as I was in Ppe with the inspector the weld fails X-ray, the welder and fitter where right there, I couldn�t tell them to fit the weld. So I had to find the superintendent, then he had to find the General Foreman, to find the Foreman so he could tell the crew to fix the weld. While all this happened it is a sunday and i had to pay double time and half. So the next year I got a non union outfit in the union refirenery to do a job in a delayed coking unit, these guys would produce double the welds in a shift at 1/3 of the price. Anyway this is my analogy, but using spd diagnostic you are overpaying for the service and by doing what you are now suggesting, customers are going to contact you, then you are going to contact lake or speed diagnostic and then spd is going to contact the lab. On top of all of this if it takes a while to find the error, how long is it going to take as you stated Lake works for total ring and seal. There has to be a better way, in the refinery example the unit made 3/4 million dollar profit per day so you can understand why you work 24/7 to fix it. In this case we are talking about what $25 k engines. Food for thought.

Quotes source post: 17485322

FYI - I noticed this is a pretty old sample date. I don't know when it changed but FWIW the original version of DT40 did not contain Moly.

I bought my car shortly after the OP had done an oil change. I sent a sample from my first oil change to Blackstone (also as a new customer), and here's how the ROSY response started: "Dear Mark, we wish we had better news...." Then they explained where each of the metals came from, described the results were indicative of at least "scuffing" advised more frequent oil changes until I got it fixed. Nothing rosy about it, and everything consistent with the actual problem.

Quotes source post: 17485616

Driven DT oils have had moly in them since 2015, so those samples were far after the formulation was changed. I did send a quick email to verify as I could not remember exactly when that change occurred.

Thanks. That is great information coming from a trusted source so thank you. The "scientist" in me says it's very possible Pete's 12/17/16 oil could have been from pre-2015, right? There is no control for that, just saying However, I guess it's a moot point as I am with you on this and I agree with your overall point for this specific matter. Even with the most stringent controls and certifications (which seem to currently be missing) some errors can occur (just with much less frequency as right now it looks pretty wild west to me). However as many have pointed out and I think you agree there are clear low hanging fruit improvements that could greatly improve the quality of this product (eg. manual entry data is a huge no-no). I don't necessarily think I was, but if you talk to Lake tell him I didn't mean to be rude but I was pretty pissed, especially that this caused me to falsely accuse my indy of something that he had zero responsibility for. There have been instances where people used too much of that Si-based sealant and you can get clumps in the sump that can clog up the oil pickup and cause oil pressure issues or much worse.

Well this was a good read for a newbie,.

Quotes source post: 19542883

Read the DI40 vs DT40 thread. It will give you good information and application on UOAs as well as oil discussions for the 996. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/1347309-driven-di40-dt40-and-pca-video.html

FWIW I have buried the hatchet with Speediagnostix for their mistakes and the trouble it caused me. Lake probably doesn't even know my real name but regardless has been helpful to me on several occasions, always answering emails quickly when I know he must be busy and probably gets a ton of questions/emails/calls. He has a lot of knowledge and experience and is generous with it. He is a good dude. At the end of the day Speediagnostix is the best service out there for two primary reasons: 1) The technologies they use are better than their competitors and things like Blackstone's always overly rosy commentary, reliance on TBN, universal averages, and fake fuel dilution approximation using flashpoint, just for starters, give people a false sense of security which not only doesn't add value but adds negative value. Of course no one likes to get bad news about their engine but the whole point of oil analysis is not to make you feel fuzzy inside, it's to understand the truth and potentially do something about it. 2) The service also comes with the benefit of being able to talk to Charles and Lake about your sample. The depth of knowledge and experience between these two cannot be matched and certainly not from a service like Blackstone that I have also seen make mistakes. I guess the moral of the story is like many things in life: trust but verify.