Love Affair is Deteriorating - 996 owner in need of advice

I need to vent. Purchased my ideal 996 4S after much searching. Higher mileage but incredibly well maintained car which was cared for, winterized, and was the perfect daily that could do AX on the weekend and occasional track days. Came with everything I wanted (sans the sunroof delete which is incredibly rare...) in the color I wanted with the right history. Knew there were going to be expensive maintenance hits as the car was purchased with 78K. She's old, it was going to happen, but it seems like it is becoming a windfall. This slew of items has led me to believe I might have to off-load her as the time, money, stress (I don't half-*** any of this type of stuff), and strain are becoming a bit too much to live with amid a very hectic job and family life. This is my second M96 powered car; my first was my loved 987.1 which I tried to locate to buy back, only to learn that it was totaled and now a salvage. Been fortunate enough to own some great DD/track all-stars, but I am thinking I might have bit off more than I can chew and mis-judged this purchase. Car was purchased in July 2022, driven back east August 2022 knowing that the suspension would likely need a full refresh in 2023. SEP 2022 going in for an alignment after a weird vibration upfront, and a series of events has the car in the shop at my indie (who is incredible) in OCT for the following: Full suspension refresh - OEM+ / fully Meyle / urethane bushings / B6 dampers Flex joint replaced Full fluid drop (everything was dropped, drained and refilled) Spark plugs Ignition coils Filters Driving in NOV, a piece of debris was ejected off a construction hauler and the car spends a month and a half at one of the areas certified P-car body shops. USAA and the shop go back and forth, and it turns into a "thing". I finally get the car back ready to go and she looks incredible, and drives amazing. Come FEB, getting ready for AX season, and I notice white smoke, a high pitched whine, and a sweet odor after finally inspecting my car after oddly having to top off oil after 400 miles using nearly a quart of 5W40, and... AOS likely is dead. She is being towed back to my indie today who is going to get on it, and for an additional kick, the passenger seat motor died, making it very hard to get our baby's car seat in and out. I love the 996 and this is my ideal 911 despite the stigma that thankfully is going away (the GT2 would be amazing to have)... But after seven months of ownership and already in for five figures worth of work, plus the PCCM+ purchase and install, I am feeling the pressure. I am now thinking about bore scoring (this car had no signs with both a PPI from a reputable indie where the car was located and post purchase look-over at my indie), and that I am sitting on some sort of roller which is causing more stress. Not sure if I should cut out and sell, but I have been looking at the Mustang Mach 1 (new and certified pre-owned) that can do DD and weekend work amid cones and long sweeping corners. Pretty sure there are others out there who are going through this or went through it. What did you end up considering and ultimately doing? What influenced your decision? Again, I finally found the AWD daily with the right mix to AX and track, but now I am even nervous that an AX will send her into the scrap yard and me out nearly all my money that I threw into this. Not to mention the time and, at time, aggravation. Thanks and appreciate any constructive responses.

My 2 cents: when you get the car back go drive it ........ . Hard ! Find some twisty mountain roads and enjoy . Then take some time to think things over . After that make a decision . Any 20+ year old high end car has the potential to turn into a money pit . It is a gamble and not a good fit for a weak stomach . I always suggest to a potential Porsche buyer to buy the cleanest one you can find after a PPI . Second suggestion is you better have 5-10k $$$ set aside that you don't mind spending . And with today's prices that is probably not enough . And after all that it's still a crapshoot if you get a good one or not. A blown engine rebuilt correctly is 25-50k . As the old saying goes if you want to play you gotta pay . On the flip side these cars are VERY rewarding to drive when all is well . My prediction ? I think you will sell the car . Good luck with whatever you decide .

The car is 20+ years old A/X an old car is going to come with baggage and all the headaches cut your losses get the mustang it was nice knowing you

Be glad it's not a boat. As said, a 20 year old car will need work and these cars are not cheap. You have to accept the risk if you want to play. The discord comes when someone thinks that they will get lucky and not have a plan or financial cushion when things go wrong. I've had my own share of these issues, but wife andI have both agreed that our car is worth the expense and I am doing more and more of my own maintenance to soften the blows. Nevertheless, I've put more than 143K miles on our car, so the expense kind of smoothes out in the long run.

A 996 that you rely on for daily transportation that you also rely on others to service and repair is likely going to be a money pit and cause a fair amount of stress. Why you would call it a perfect daily is beyond my ability to reason. Common repairs that cost the owner that does the repair themselves a couple hundred can easily be a thousand, or 2 with the labor you pay an indie to do the work. To sum it up - I would not have done what you did if you did not plan to service the car yourself - For a car that you can DD as well as auto X and take to the track in the 996 price range, there are a lot of more reliable and cost effective options. 4S seem to be highly desirable right now, sell it and get the right car.

Thanks for the replies. We do have a generous four figure annual cushion specifically for the car, and are fortunate to be able to shovel the heavy blows that do come, but I guess it is the unpredictability that is actually at the root of the question. The car, again was PPI'd and post-inspected, and got a solid bills of health. I do my research, and from the vast amount of information I had, extensive service records, asking the right questions, everything checked out. I have a good car. And understanding the car is about 20 years old, I knew going in there were going to be big ticket items and costs that go with it. We are finally in a place where I can do some of the less intrusive maintenance items, but again, it's a learning process for some of the more intermediate to advanced work that will come with this car. And again, it's not what has been addressed, it's the frequency of every two months there seeming to be a big ticket item. The car is driven daily, hard in an enjoyment sort of way, but by no means abused or thrashed, and I utterly love every second in it to the point why I wonder why I got the PCCM+ when I always turn the audio off to just enjoy the motor. Car starts getting worked on today; can't wait to get it back... And figure this out. And I don't want this to be a "nice knowing you" type of deal...

I think there�s more to this than the car� Therapy may be in order�🤣

Let's level set on a 20+ year old 996. Unless the previous owner replaced every part and performed every service along the way, you will undoubtedly spend $20-30k over the next few years replacing things. Less if you dont need an indy. This $20-30k does not take into consideration if you have bore scoring which will cost you an addition $20-40k for an engine rebuild. I highly suggest you get your bores scoped before you spend another penny on the car. These costs are just a fact of life in keeping a 20+ year old car on the road. You gotta come to grips with this. If not, sell it and buy a Honda.

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+1 big time. My 996 has been my only car for 2.5 years now and I have spent a chunk of change in maintenance and upgrades. I'm pretty confident I would have spent double of what I have if I didn't do most of the work myself. Seeing many shop bills posted, in many cases labor is equal or more than parts needed for the job. I think with these cars being more affordable many folks don't realize that maintenance is not. A car that was $70k - $100k when new will not have the same maintenance costs that a $25k one.

So let's now further level set by talking about autocrossing and DEing the car. You can add a multiplier to the $20-30k of parts and service costs for a refresh to bullet proof the car. This multiplier includes the cost of additional sets of wheels, tires, brake pads, rotors, oil and brake fluid changes, entry fees and track insurance fees. You will spend a pretty penny on the track. God forbid you are a type "A" personality which means you will spend and do anything to shave off time. Owning a 996, spending the money to refresh it and making it bullet proof, and then deciding to track it is not for someone on a tight budget. Kinda important to approach it with realistic expectations. Appreciate the 996 for what it is. An awesome 20 year old car that you will need to sink 20k into to refresh and bullet proof (engine, suspension, brakes, exhaust). This number doesnt count interior and exterior upgrades. The longer you wait to bullet proof, the more little things will break and **** you off. You are either in or out. Any decision is a good decision.

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Sounds like the only issue is just one of despair. Things go wrong in clumps. At some point you will get this sorted out and look back and wonder what all the fuss was about. Then something else will need attention, but you will be better prepared emotionally once you build some confidence. If you haven't already, join PCNA's local club chapter and get to know the people. They can be a valuable resource and help with the ownership/maintenance education. Not discounting the excellent Rennlist members here, but face-to-face contact can some times open some extraordinary doors.

Honestly, I dont see anything out of the most common maintenance that we all have gone through. The question is. Did you need to go through the whole suspension refresh, fluids and all of that at once? Probably not. A lot of cars out there just get the basic yearly maintenance and replacements of what is broken We, in the other side, go crazy with the "preventive maintenance"... which is probably a good approach for avoiding unexpected downtimes but does not guarantee that other parts can fail (as they are 20 years old cars) and it comes to a cost ($$$)

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I�ve owned a 996.1 C2 and now a 996.2 C4S, both used as daily drivers. They�ve been great DD's and make my otherwise boring commute fun; but with any 20+ year-old car it�s important to expect some spending up front to get everything as bulletproof as possible with the engine/car, and also budget for the gotcha's that come up as well as elective mods/service. I also think it's important when DD'ing an older car that there is a plan B or backup car available for you to use to get to work, etc., just in case something comes up. In general, if AutoX or tracking with any frequency, I am wary of using a DD for those activities (esp. a 20 year-old German one), unless you do have a backup plan and are ok with costs/inconvenience of having your car down occasionally for maintenance/repair/consumables. Agree with Marv, things seem to go wrong in clumps. However, once you get over the initial hump of getting it sorted out, I've found the 996 to be pretty reliable.

Resist the temptation to spend money on the pretty things such as exterior and interior parts, suspensiom, exhaust, wheels, aero, shifter kits, etc and spend it on making your engine durable as he'll first. That will cost you ~$15k if you use an indy and half that if you do it yourself. Then move on to the suspension, exhaust, exterior and interior which are not critical to keeping the power plant running. Suspension $2.5k - $10k Exhaust. $2.5k - $10k IPD/TB. $1k Software. $1k Wheels. $2.5k - $5k Tires. $1.5k Brakes. $1k - $7k ​​​Aero kit. $6k plus other. Alot of money I get it, we all want our cars to look good, but doesnt matter if its engine doesnt run. Plenty of time to sort out the pretty stuff.

It seems like you've had a string of bad luck lately. Luck can turn around quickly. Aside from that, seems like the bill for the AOS would be less of a pill to swallow if you hadn't just had the road debris (dumb luck) and full suspension refresh. The only constructive advice I can think of is comprehensive insurance with a $1000 deductible is fairly cheap and usually saves you a bit of money for body work. Stuff like the full suspension refresh should be saved for the end of a year when you have surplus budget and want to treat yourself. If you do it right off the bat, you run the risk of a string of bad luck putting you in the red like this. I hope it works out for ya. I love my C4S.

These M96’s over 100k will all need an engine rebuild sooner or later. I’m in a similar situation as the OP in contemplating what lies ahead in the cost/benefit analysis of long term 996 ownership. What it boils down to is: do you love the car enough to invest $20-40k in an engine. If the answer is no then sell it now. One thing you have in your favor is these cars are now finally appreciating to a certain extent and the C4S is one of the more desirable models.

I know how you feel... It's a Porsche 911. They push the edge of the envelope when they made it. It costs money to own, and it will get worse. If it is not for you, it's not for you. Good luck.

Why daily drive? It's still an old car, if I daily drove my 996 I'd be as nervous as you but I never planned on it. I have a boring Toyota which will last forever and never breaks down for daily stuff. To take any 20 year old car and make it 'reliable' is a rabbit hole, you can either replace everything that could fail $$$$$ everything that is more likely to fail $$$ and still may not be as reliable as a newer car...

Here is the key. Assuming that your M96 does NOT have any bore scoring, which is why you have to check when you are buying one or already own one... Then you can easily mitigate the risk of bore scoring going forward by changing the oil 2x a year, keeping your fuel injectors, coils, plugs and maf fresh, and following common sense start up procedures. Same can be said for mitigating the risk of imsb failure with the LN Retro or Solution, hydralock and intermix with the UAOS, and cylinder head cracking/intermix problems by running a fresh water pump. NOW HERE IS THE GOOD NEWS... If you decide to do a rebuild some day to enhance the performance, you can use all of these parts with the rebuild if you so choose. No wasted money. Same can be said for suspension, exhaust, wheels, aero etc. We gotta stop the crying and whining. Its a 20 year old car. You either are willing to spend money servicing a classic sports car to keep it running or you are not. Be glad you don't own a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston or McClaren. You think M96 service costs are high, check out the costs to keep those babies running. The 996 is cheap as he'll in comparison with better performance and handling. It's all about expectations and perspective.

Here is what I see::: You bought a 20 year old Porsche 996 with 78K miles.. You did a 60k mile service ( spark plugs, coils, filters, fluid ) ...that was actually past due by 18k miles You did a complete suspension rebuild ( probably wasn't completely necessary, but new shocks and stuff is always nice) .. You had an accident .. (road debris... ie. sh*t happens ) Your seat motor failed.... Your AOS failed.......Ever heard of the UAOS ? The problem is not the car...but getting rid of the car might fix the problem....

Thanks again for the input and I am getting the quick impression that this was not the right choice at the time of purchase. I did get a bore scope as part of my PPI and post-purchase inspection. Nothing to report there. The car had the FLAT6 IMS/RMS solution performed at around 50K. I called FLAT6 and they verified the VIN prior to purchase; have the little decal in the driver's doorsill with the installation number and additional paperwork. Post purchase, I immediately made arrangements to take care of the missed 60K. My bad there. Been with PCA for eight years, joining when I got my Cayman, which is an excellent point to bring up so far as local resources go. I'll tap into that. When the suspension was due for a few repairs (as expected and was planned), it made sense to do the whole thing so as to avoid mishaps, surprises, and any other boomerang that came my way. If we are doing preventative and have the money, I will always opt in. The plan is to keep this stock with the exception of the suspension decision to go B6 for a bit stiffer ride. I have no desire to mod it, mechanically or cosmetically. I like it the way it is. If you consider the door decals and shift **** mods, guilty. I am willing to spend the money to keep a good stock 4S on the road, running well, and looking good, it just hit at one hell of a windfall. I am fortunate enough as well to have other wheels available for getting around when maintenance and repairs are needed, so covered there luckily. But.. Best to sell and move on. Thank you again. I got emotional seeing it towed off to the shop. I genuinely love this car...

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I tried heavy drinking and therapy, sometimes at the same time. Didn't help...🤣

I'll add $0.02. First of all your C4S is a very special car, I recall at least one review at the time labeling it a "mini-supercar". Don't let it go if you have any love left. Second, if these cars are used as a daily driver, you really gotta have a second car so you don't drive it every day. I use my C4S as a 1/2 daily driver, drive it all the time, but also have a van for the home depot, airport, rainy days, moving stuff, around town running errands (in parking lots that provide door dings) etc, and when the 996 is in the shop. For me using the C4S daily actually does get old on occasion, I take a look and say -- nah, sick of driving the car in traffic, need a change. One past daily driver was an '82 911SC, for 11 years, I bought it at 155K miles, and the engine blew at 295K miles. It was great, the lowest cost, most reliable car I ever owned. My wife had the "family car" (van or SUV), but I could always fit 1-3 of the young kids as needed. So with the C4S I view it as a keeper car, will keep it in good condition, I know it is special, and I'll accept the maintenance costs,and I believe we all stand a high probability of a long lasting car. My suggestion: get a second car to share the daily driving, that will take the pressure off of the constant worry / cost of 996 maintenance. You may not have another chance to own one.

Words to live by: you own a Porsche 911, you need a second car. Especially when it takes 3 months for LNE to sleve your score bored block. Or when you 911SC guts are all over the garage while your 915 gearbox is being rebuilt, and the head studs are being replaced.

Lots of great advice for you to consider. I love to hear many perspectives, let them ferment, foster dreams, then make an informed decision. My wife asks, "why ask for advice you don't follow?" I know smart people. I love their opinions. I drive my C4S only for pleasure. I quit tracking it because it's too clean & too special. I have a Toyota DD, and a cheapy higher mile Boxster S to track.

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Well, you could just buy a 992 (or even a 991 with CPO) Carrera and enjoy the warranty of a new car. However, the cost difference between a 20-year old car and a new one is one hell of a lot of repairs, some of which you might not even need. When I look at what the delta between my GT3's value and a 2015 to 2018 GT3 I could rebuild the engine twice and maybe throw in some transmission work. Of course I know that would take the car off-road for a good spell, but I can manage that. Nevertheless, I daily drive my GT3 rain and shine (no winters in Florida) and never give it a second thought when I turn the key. I've been doing that for 16+ years with this car. I am not that informed about the Carrera, but it would seem to me that once the gremlins are excised from the engine it should be a pretty robust driver.

You sure have received a of opinions. In the end, if you have loss the lust to own the car, sell it. I was an rabid 996 enthusiast. I was that way, because I made an agreement with my wife, when I was 25, I would wait to get a 911 until our last kid graduates college. Two @Syracuse One @Albany Green light, go get the car of your dream!!! Dream car, the one I visualized on my 2:30 am, half hour lunch break. Working third shift at IBM Endicott buildings 41 & 43 & education center as a bathroom janitor night shift for a third party contractor company. Yup pushing my cart around with a broom, mop and bucket. So thirty years later when that car came I loved it! I loved my car, I paid 10% - 15% above high book price when I bought it in 2014. Before the car transport arrived with the car, UPS delivered a brand new Porsche 911 Aero/GT3 car cover. I did every improvement a person could think of to C2 Carrera Aero. Lots, even a $108 Porsche umbrella for left doorsill, that never did get used, but I thought it was cool. Reliable and tasteful modifications to the 3.6L that would stretch the tourque power band to the max and achieving a respectable 300 @ the rear wheels, driven daily got 25 miles + /gallon. But my lust was decreasing the past few years. I am being straight up and honest. It was being hampered by reading and being active in 996 forums. The overwhelming input on forums and social media was turning really negative in late 2018. It seems like retrofits of IMSB have saved a lot of engines, a good thing right? Not good for retrofit companies. Now, instead of your IMSB is going to grenade your engine, now it is Bore Scoring. Everyday the constant bitching about half the engines have bore scoring, the other half will develop it next week. Then we could do nothing but discuss on how bad a PCA HPDE is on a 996. Horrible, take 25% off the value per track day. Exaggerating. But, try to lay logic into a snowflake how insinuates publicly on auction forums that you should never buy a 996 if it had 8 track days, lord mercy, never! It will have bore scoring, bad IMSB, nylon falling off of cam bushing. AOS sucking oil and puking into the Plenum. Run, don't walk from a car that has been tracked. BS, BS, BS My car had every piece of service history from the day it left the showroom new, till the time I loaded it on the transport out of here. There are thousands of high milage 3.6L M96 engines running with nothing but good maintenance. Then, wait for it, the 3.4L is now documented to be more reliable than the 3.6L. More BS. Who is coming up with the data?? Retrofit companies or people who buy and resell 911s? Bottom line. Right up till the day I drove that Perfect 996 Carrera Aero into the private covered transport hired by the new owner in Florida, I thought the car was stunning. You know what, it was still stunning. But as people say, "Other's words can harden your heart" It's true. I enjoyed most all folks on this forum. I learned a lot. But over 7.5 years and total spent of $74k+ on a 996.2 Carrera Aero with 80,000 on the clock. It had 40,000k when I bought. I thought I would own forever. Nothing could bring back that passion, it was drowned in negativity. I even bought a perfect CPO 2014 all Black Cayenne to park next to in the garage to help fire up Porsche passion. There is probably some bad grammar and misspelling in this post. But read it twice, before you disregard it. Sell my friend, sell.

Social media the internet and this forum distressed you so bad that you sold your pride and joy that you had lusted over for years.....yet here you are..

You bought a higher mileage, 20 year old car. Brought some maintenance items up to date and did some elective suspension work. Had a road accident (no fault of the car) and now have a couple of issues that would or could be typical of a 20 year old car. Am I missing something? It sounds to me like a decent car. The only problems you had were a minor suspension issue, an AOS, and a seat motor, on a higher miles 20 YO car. Sounds normal to me. Go buy high mileage Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, etc. They'll have things to fix also. It just costs less. That's why I saved and bought a lower mileage Porsche, to avoid the repairs. Either way, you have to pay. Keep the car.

Again, appreciate all the different perspectives and outlooks. Just waiting for my shop to reach out, but as with most things, you should come out learning something regardless of the situation and if you've been there before. Really want to keep the car - it's literally my ideal 911. Great points to tap more deeply into the local PCA network, broaden my DIY knowledge, and don't calculate a fire solution when something happens. Again, looking back to last week, and as many have said and I understand objectively, I have a good car and this isn't anything out of the norm for the age/mileage; it just feels like a tidal wave of one thing after another and not being able to have it for more than a month. Did the math, had the car for seven months and only actually had it on the road for three and a half, haven't even really enjoyed it. Also, track days might be out, but AXs I am fine with. Nothing the car hasn't done on my commute to skate around the zombies and distracted drivers on area highways. Just comes with more attention: oil changes, brake pads, tires, and worn components. I am fortunate enough to have an additional set of wheels, and I can give the 996 a break a week a month, and use our Jeep. Family is close by who are enthusiasts as well. Father's SL550 is a GT dream for a commute and 20 min away. It doesn't get out too often and he's all about getting it out on the road for a week a month; he is the former owner of a 944, followed by a 930, and finally a 964 C4... Needless to say, he passed it down and also gets it. Mach 1 as the back up in the in the event I get news that doom is impending. Will keep those who care posted. Should hear back today regarding moving ahead to get her back on the road. Thanks again. Already hit up the PCA regional rep for scheduled tech sessions and going to do a walk around when I pick her up and note it in my log for stuff to ask about and keep an eye on.

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I check in once a week as I still have Porsche / 996 items listed in marketplace. Surprised at the snark from you S. I purchased and installed a UAOS from you as I prepared the car for market.

Received a belated birthday gift from family full of Porsche schwag. Among the 917 racing Ts, coffee cups, and other stuff, a pair of Porsche shop gloves. Taking this as serendipity.

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Out of curiosity, what doom are you worried about that would move you to a Mach 1?

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^^^Yup^^^ Another candidate for therapy🤣 I bet there are at least a few therapists that monitor this forum for potential clients� Too funny!

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Love doesn't make sense.

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"What's Love Got to Do with It?

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I was trying to prod you to buy back into the fold....Your car was one of the nicest ones on the forum, so nice in fact that I was actually jelly of it, and disappointed when you decided to sell it... I don't think you will find another as nice if you try.......

Keeping it. Time to grow up and own it though. Took a hard look at parts to labor cost, and as we all know (I knew going in it was the ringer), that's what kills you, but on me to own it and at least do what I can with what I have. Get her back Monday. Final deal: AOS replaced (UAOS down the line) Reservoir was actually cracked and causing an onset of corrosion - Replaced with new lines and new tub (OEM P-Car/Bosch); corrosion cleaned up Input shaft seized, removed, re-greased, smooth engagement (spines were cleaned up) Passenger seat switch completely dead and replaced My guy is good but in watching a lot of DIYs from PCA and 996ers, I understand this isn't terribly hard, not easy sometimes to do, but not hard. This is a growth experience... I have 60 dollar shop gloves as a gift now... Time to use them Thanks again. And not going a f--king damn place...

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Doesn't matter anymore

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Thanks S for the kind words.. I am glad it went to a person who is driving the wheels off it, street and track.

I totally understand this. I bought an X50 turbo with 27k on it. Within the first couple of weeks it developed a slave leak which turned into fixing that plus a new clutch, flywheel etc. Got it back and took it out for a shakedown and the wing hydraulics failed. At the same time I also acquired a 4s. I have had zero issues with the 4s. With the turbo, Im always wondering "what next?"

Yeah, it's very difficult to tell when the rubber, plastic parts and metal parts will fail. But you do know they will eventually. Unfortunately, we can't change general engineering and physics principles. But we can change parts before they fail or after. Monday I take my 996 into my indy. Last year I had them do my second major 10 year preventative engine refresh, dropping the sump, scoping the bores, dropping the engine, replacing everything that should be replaced, rebuilding what should be rebuilt and going over every part like a PPI on steroids. Everything looked good with the powersteering bits so we didn't replace the orings and bits. Wouldn't you know it, I got a PS leak. Shoulda, woulda, coulda, replaced the 21 year old parts at risk. But I never spent any time studying the PS nor worring about power steering leaks, so I didn't. Go figure. Just all part of classic 996 ownership as these cars age. No one likes spending the money, but I do love the car and will do anything to keep it running in top form.

Money and Classic Porsche? Money doesn't matter when chasing / driving / repairing classic Porsche. If it does then it's not the right car for you. It's about the passion and the experiences they can offer you. It aint about the money in repairing them. We are ALL UPSIDE DOWN in these cars. You want to use it for Motorsports. Increase the Upside down factory exponentially If you're worried about the money, Maybe you should buy a 911 that's under warranty?

While reading this post, some things never change despite the marque.....

Yea, no one ever saves up money excited to go down to Rolfs Garage and get a valve job on their Porsche.. Then come home and tells all their neighbors and wife, "Hey y'all look what I bought today!!....I'm so proud !!" But they probably should.....

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Hell yah. Congratulations. Go for a drive. Enjoy it.

As a new owner last week of a 2002 C4S with 29k miles, this thread caught my attention and stressed me a little. My car does have LN Eng IMS bearing (not certain if just LN retrofit or the solution but one is already done, that is all I'm sure of). I did buy it from a very conscientious friend who bought it from Pcar a couple years ago so I am familiar with the car and borrowed it a handful of times before buying it. To the point of this thread, during the first week the passenger side window regulator failed. Hopefully just bad luck. Is there a thread or list specifically related to the "bulletproofing" of engine that is mentioned frequently in this thread. From some of my past cars (FD RX-7, S60R, C5 ZO6, e46 M3) all had their weak spots and the failure points that caused much concern, forum discussions sometimes seemed to spoil the honeymoon period but each car did have a number of improvements that were highly recommended to avoid trouble. That is what I am looking for. I've looked through the FAQ and not found a specific list. If there is one, could someone that has been in the 996/M97 game longer than me point me in the right direction. I have the essential companion book and 996 service manual by Bentley and I plan to do as much work as possible on my own.

An 02 C4S with 29k miles with IMS done? Probably needs to be driven hard and often. Keep RPMs over 2000 always and shift at 3500 or above, making sure to shift at 5000 or more every drive. Change fluids if your friend can't verify. Enjoy it and try to relax facial muscles from grinning.

Yes, this is my car in Pcar listing back when my buddy bought it....only difference is about 1500 more miles and a dealership oil change. I'll do my own fluid changes. I drive it in a responsible yet spirited fashion as you recommended. https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/2...rsche-911-c4s/

Well, for any doubters about the C4S, who are ready to welcome a bit of encouragement, or willing to do some homework, I suggest reading through these 2 articles. Sorry if this is a repeat for some folks, but they are quite supportive of the C4S. S Stands for Schnell https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post14125769 The Perfect 911? https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post14125785

I do empathize with the original poster. There certainly is a great deal of doom and gloom associated with the 996. In 2018, I purchased a 45000 mile '03 996. After a thorough PPI, I had the usual suspects addressed including getting the solution, waterpump, AOS, RMS etc. etc. This forum does make me a little paranoid with comments like "it is not if it will bore score, but when." This certainly takes away from the driving experience. Every time I start the car, I listen for the "tick tick tick tick." I'm forever looking at the tail pipes etc. I remember once moving the car for a wash, washed it and put it back in garage due to impeding rain. A couple days later, when I starter it up, smoke everywhere. Scared the crap out of me. Last summer, I blew the expansion tank about 30 minutes from home. Coolant level was a little low, but not much. I changed it myself and replaced the plastic connection along with engine mounts. This type of stuff doesn't bother me but a blown engine with a $30K price tag really does. This latter part does take away some of the enjoyment.....

There's also a decent body of evidence supporting the "change oil often and don't do short trips" method of increasing engine life. One guy on here is still regularly tracking a 20 year old C2 that he bought new. Still on the original motor.

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My oil is changed about every 1500 miles - basically one year of mileage. Car is not started for at least 6 months. What is a short trip? 5 miles? 10 miles? 25 miles? Can I use the car to go into the city, have dinner and then drive back home? 10 miles round trip? As a rule, everytime I take the car out, I make sure it gets to operating temperature 10 to 15 minutes. But it is stuff like this where apparently, so much car and attention is required. Kind of deflates the fun factor.

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You're not wrong. Much of that "data" comes from certain forum sponsors and the small group of people that blindly worship the ground they walk on. I almost got rid of mine because I knew it had issues and yeah, the forum wasn't helping. But in the end I did my own research and decided to fix and keep it. Glad I did.

The problem has always been the previous owner not the M96. This is not only true for the M96 but also every engine known to man. You either take care of it or you dont. No reason to walk out the garage door in fear. These are pretty damn durable cars. But you gotta service the machinery. They like fresh oil and spirited driving.

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BINGO!

Surely folks can differentiate between forum BS, brainstorming scenarios, potential procedures to consider and scare mongering? No?

Forums are just a place to find things you need to learn about, there are few folks with all the answers. My 996 had,,, Bad AOS, bad Coolant tank(Not Porsche), and a water pump replaced recently. AOS failed, sent oil into the cylinders, not enough to hydrolock, just enough to finish cracking the cylinder wall. While I did choose FSI, in a large part it was because of the other shops I talked to, I talked to what are some of the biggest west coast Porsche shops. One was over priced by double FSI, One couldn't throttle back to basic nicks and 3.8 upgrade and was snotty about it. 3 of them the longer they talked the faster I ran away. Just total BS artists. So its not necessarily about being a fan of one builder, it can be that the alternatives just didn't play.. The 996 has pretty much all the same weaknesses as a WRX, or an FRX, Cylinder issues, head issues. Boxer engines do have some inherent engineering issues. Its why they have a dual mass flywheel instead of a harmonic balancer.

So... I picked her up yesterday and melted seeing her back... And there is no substitute. Fourth gear at 78 at 4K on the highway and that flat six cannot be replicated. Down shift, heel-toe, rev-match to 5K in 3rd to get around a 40MPH whatever in the passing lane on a four lane freeway, small pop of the exhaust and a "brrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaa" out the back, intoxicating. Felt powerful, rejuvenated. New coolant reservoir, all new hoses, new AOS and corresponding hoses, cleaned out input shaft... You can really feel the difference. I have since purchased the Bentley shop manual, invested in a legit torque wrench to add to the now adequate intermediate hand tool set, a two ton jack, and just need to research this passenger seat power seat switch. It appears that literally the "forward/aft" switch (front to back) is dead and that only needs to be replaced, but the aftermarkets are supposedly junk, and I just need to find the right parts guide to make sure I get the correct OEM. As is typical, the cheaper the part is perceived, the more expensive it actually is. I will take any suggestions on how to approach this. I did a bunch a research and this seems to be one of those things several people post and comment about, but there is never a "conclusion". I do need to invest in a code reader... But I can look on the 996 Rennlist forum for that. And signed up on Renntech for references and the DIY guides. Needless to say, this was and will continue to be a growth experience for someone who loves cars (this one in particular), did their own work on a few previous, and is now reconnecting beyond the drive and AX/track events. Journey that counts... Can't wait for that first oil change. And for the drive to work tomorrow. Thanks for hashing it all out.

She also needs a bath. She's f---ing gross

I saw a funny sign at bar/bike shop this past weekend in VT. I translated it to Porsche world. "My biggest fear is when I'm dead my wife sells my cars for what I told her I spent on them."

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This is true. My local bike shop will issue you a fake receipt if needed and suggest to buy all bikes in black so the wife doesn't catch on

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Recently I answered a call from a widow who had an FSI engine in her ate husband's Cayman. When he shipped the car across the country he told her that it was going in for a new exhaust and a couple of special things to be done that required special attention. She thought that this only cost the amount that was on the exhaust invoice that she found in the car. She had found a bank document that showed a much larger figure where a wire transfer had been initiated from an account that she did not know existed. Things got interesting from there.

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Did she still have the Cayman?

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Just one idea that might help with this. On at least 2 other Porsches, and one VW, the fix for a broken switch likes these was simply to use spray electrical contact cleaner. I haven't experienced this on my 996 however and I don't know the seat slider switch. But these types of switches can get gunky on the contact surfaces. Simple old electrical contact cleaner can bring them back, just find a way to spray it inside and then exercise the switch back and forth many times to clean it up. It might work or maybe the switch is broken.

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Good thing he was already dead, she probably would have killed him herself!

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To be fair, do we KNOW she found out after he was dead...

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So I ordered the way overpriced switch to have it since they can be hard to come by, but I will try this first before I remove the seat switch. Any specific contact cleaner recommended? Just asking because "newbie". It's just one of those things that seems to have a lot of issues, but it's over engineered, over priced, and there is no follow-up hence the ask. Thanks man!

Also... I got my favorite weather on the way home with this car. Moderate rain, 40s, and she just gripped and ran. I can't explain the 4S.

Use De-Oxit for cleaning electrical contacts

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Interesting thread.....I am the daily driver who runs short trips but makes sure it hits 180, even making the short trip just a little bit longer....Now I am reading that I am starting the car wrong and I could be in for bore scoring since I let it idel unit the needle revs down to 1k will warm up, instead of waiting 15 seconds and driving it off.....Been on the forums since 2001 and wealth of information here, but have noticed that the 996 forums is the biggest fear factor of all the forums here...

Picture this. It's -20 degrees F and your car has been sitting for 2 weeks and hasn't had an oil change for 2 years. As a result, the oil doesn't lubricate as well as you want it too. Make matters worse, you start the car and the computer floods an excess supply of fuel into the cyclinders further deteriorating the oil lubrication qualities of your old oil at start up. Could be a 996, 997, 991, 992, audi, BMW, Mercedes etc. Same applies. I see you are in Scottsdale so you won't have -20 degree days. So the easiest thing to do to save the alusil bores in any German car (see above) is to always run high quality fresh oil that isn't contaminated by water and fuel. So change your oil at least 2x a year. Right before the winter and in the spring. Second thing to do is don't let it idle when it's in start-up mode pumping excess fuel into the cylinders. Get it out of that mode as soon as possible by driving it immediately. Third thing to do is drive the car long enough to get the oil up to temp so it burns off the water and fuel. So instead of a quick 2 mile jaunt to the grocery store, make it 20-30 min to get it up to temp. So go for a great drive, heat the baby up, take a few corners and then get your groceries. Small price to pay for keeping a classic running in great form. You would be doing the same thing for any 25 year old Merc, BMW or Audi if you owned one.

OP, you decided to stick with the C4S? Out of curiosity, why was the Mach 1 your alternate choice vs other cars? i myself am a big Mustang fan and have had many over the years, and currently have 2. Nothing wrong with wanting that Mach 1. Support on the Mustang forums is huge as well.

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I am really unsure why the -20 degrees/2 weeks and oil not changed in 2 years? As you stated I am Scottsdale and my 996.2 is a daily driver? Yes I am aware of the oil changes as I drove a air cooled before, which made it worse by the Az heat...my 996.2 has received 2 60k services within the last year one from a Indy back in Jan 2023 and than a Porsche dealership back in Sept 2023, each where unaware of the services already done....I just bought it 2 months ago... I have to say the start and go method is flawed....Today I started the 996 waited 30 seconds and drove off...within the 30 minute time frame....I was at 4 lights at idel before it warmed up to 180+....So you see regardless if you just drive off or wait....The engine will be at idel a couple of times before it hits 180+ in my case this always happens and the freeway is 3 to 4 lights away. I think we all know Porsche when they released the 996, it was hard time for them. The 996 shows this and yet its still my fav 911 style. Going over the board I am very disappointed that Porsche installed plastic guides in the 996, as I owned a 2004 6 speed Nissan Maxima many years ago, where the plastic chains failed. Its something in the back of my mind amongst other things. I know never to do 2 minute drives with these engines and my drives are usually getting the engine at 180+ 15 to 30 minutes depending on where I am going and I alway drive longer than I have, just to make sure its at 180+ ....

Just a generalization with the -20 F. The 996 is pretty easy to keep in good shape. Even easier in Scottsdale. Enjoy!

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Just between me and you, I hate starting it in 40 degree weather, which it has been lately and refuse to drive it in rain lol...

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LOL - we have the same drive patterns. Even if I am changing garage bays I take the car (2000 C2 TIP with 56K) out for a 180F drive. Never drive in the rain. It's a third car for me so it's not a DD.

Hello all from Italy, speaking of 'love affairs' with a 996, I'll tell you my story. After many 911s owned, many more test-driven for motoring magazines and several Porsche books written, I bought in 2016 a perfect car, a 2000 C4 Cabrio with 35,000 miles on the clock, full Porsche service history etc. Perfect, Concours condition. Zenith Blue with Metropol interior and Indigo hood. I didn't drive it often, as I own several more cars so in those six years mileage increased to 44,000 miles, always serviced yearly by Porsche Italia. Then, the 17 May, disaster struck: the garage where I kept the 996 (and many other cars, bikers, audio equipment etc) was flooded and water sumberged the 996 up to the bottom of the steering wheel. When we were able to tow the cars out of this flooded garage, three days after the flood occurred, I had two possibilities: either save it, at a prevedibly horrendous cost, or sell it as a flooded wreck to some dealer for pennies. If it was a normal second hand car, I'd have chosen the 2nd option. But being a preciously 'concorso' car that I enjoyed a lot during my ownership, I chose the first.and trusted the official Porsche Italy's Classic Centre for the resoration, knowing that the cost of this process would probably be more than the value of the car. But, as I loved that car, I took the plunge. Porsche was not helpful with the spares; a whopping $6000+ for the ABS pump alone, for example. Six months later the 996 was ready and I took delivery in Padova. OK, the final cost was huge, but, what can I say? I still LOVE that car. So even if a sane person would NEVER have done that, I'm quite proud to be the owner of BH314KP and it works and drives beautifully. I'm happy with that. My Favourite Cars (stefanopasini.it) http://www.stefanopasini.it/Porsche_...2023-Flood.htm The moral is, I guess: if you love the car, keep it. If you don't love her so much after your years of ownership, taillights. I di did it with other beautiful classic cars in the past and it wasn't so painful. All the best, Stefano

Nice post. I own a 2000 C2 coupe and we 👏 your effort. Well done.

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Anyone who had the chance to test drive a Carerra GT must have good judgement.

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Thanks 911 Syncro... Stefano

Wow! I am in awe of your dedication to preservation of this car. This past summer we also had a flash flooding event at our home that entered my garage and shop and totaled my 996 (amongst many other vehicles and items that respond poorly to being immersed in floodwater!). Mine had been a daily driver for years and was now a weekend/airport car with 113000 miles on it but no accidents or problems during my ownership, many enjoyable experiences and it held fond place in my mind and my wife loved it too. While rescuing other vehicles I was not able to get it moved in time and unfortunately in my case water came over the dash and into the engine itself, displacing oil with water and many electrical noises until i disconnected the battery. I had insurance and they paid me a very good price for it but after cleaning up some other vehicles that only had water to the floorboards, the amount of work you put into resurrecting this particular car is absolutely astonishing. Amazing.

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Sorry to hear about the loss. That was a lot of water!

Thank you, yeah it was a helluva day for sure! Thankfully I was working from home or things would've been much worse as I was able to move a few other vehicles to higher ground. I know this is getting off topic but I was so impressed seeing what Stefano did and having recently gone through a very similar situation. Although I really enjoyed my 996 and had planned on keeping it... but even if we hadn't had so many concurrent things to get addressed with the flood repair.... I still dont think I would be up to that project even if it was the only thing I had to do. At the end of the day, it's just 'stuff' and we probably already had too much of it! Just a few pictures After the water had receded a bit from maximum After pushing it out of the garage. Not good at all.

^^^^^ I can't 'like' that post. It would break my heart to see my car in that much water! But at the end of the day, as you say, it's just stuff.

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ohmyGOD exactly as mine, only probably the water in your car arrived one inch higher than mine, at least judging from the line of water arriving at the door handle. I like your attitude, its just stuff but it was bad to see many more things (like in your case, no doubt) damaged by water. All my old car magazines, lots of audio equipment, Marklin model train stuff... well, I decided to save at least the 911, and I'm not regretting it. After all, I couldn't afford a new 992 and no second-hand 911 would have been better, for me, than my beloved, pristine 996. May I ask who bought your 996? a dealer, a fellow enthusiast? best wishes anyway, Stefano

Thank you Stefano, yes as you know a flood is incredibly destructive and just makes a complete mess of everything. In the US my automotive insurance covered the car at a fair value to me and it was taken to a salvage auction nearby (Copart), while I found it listed online I never saw what it sold for or who bought it. The car was never previously wrecked or damaged and overall was in very good condition so my hope is that maybe it has a second life like that old Mercedes commercial or maybe it helps keep someone else's car on the road. Biggest disappointment was that I was very much looking forward to getting a permanent "antique car" plate for it this year too. Overall such a great little car and my wife told me she liked it more than the 991 turbo I recently bought, so I think it's very cool that you were able to bring yours back in such a meticulous way! @StefanoP I meant to ask, did your engine have to be rebuilt too? All the best, K

Dear K996, nice to hear that the insurance covered it. My engine, thankfully, didn't have to be rebuilt as the official Porsche Italia guys did 'wash' it immediately when they got the car and removed water, debris etc. After several oil changes etc the engine is strong, doesn't smoke and until now does not use any oil. If the engine was damaged, I would have been forced to abandon the project as economically even more taxing than it has been. Cheers Stefano