GT3 997 how good are these - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Had my car for 8 years now and it still give me as much please as we hen i first got it. Still feels back to the basics driving. Like Henry said from 911 Virgin. What an engine the mezger is.

I went from a 997 Turbo S to a 997 GT3RS and the difference was massive. I had thought the TurboS was as good as you could get, fantastic acceleration, 4 wheel drive, safe handling (understeer) a complete car that would keep you safe. The RS was in a different league the best car I've owned by some margin, it was an event just going to the shops, until you have driven one you will not know, I cannot explain just how good it was. I bought it having driven a friends 997GT3 while on holiday in France, we swopped cars his GT3 was a step ahead as a driving experience against my TurboS, he hated my understeering S. I went away from that holiday thinking I need to scratch that itch it made such an impression. Anyone who has not driven one, should do it, take it on a flowing B road and give it its head you won't look back. If I could afford a another RS (£160K) as an addition to the garage I'd get one in a flash, have to hope the numbers come my way. Edited by Geoff39GL on Sunday 9th August 19:32

Yes I agree. I went and done the route Napoleon a couple of years ago, then to Cannes then onto Portifino . Wow what a car to do all them tight twisting roads .you don’t need anymore power for them roads . So much interaction and a real workout. That’s what driving is to me,

Thought you car was for sale again?

Y’know it’s interesting… read a lot about and see a lot of 997.1 GT3 (vanilla and RS) but hardly every see or read about 997.2 GT3 (vanilla) Why is that?

RC1 said: Thought you car was for sale again? Haven’t driven it for a few months ,been driving my 356 speedster replica. This has now been sold and just spent the last 2 weekends putting her through its paces again. I’ve decided, so the miles I’m going to put 100,000 on her lol

evodarren said: I’ve decided, sod the miles I’m going to put 100,000 on her lol Good man! I put 30k on mine, I bought it 5.5 years earlier with 19k on it. Best car I ever owned

yes bought mine 8 years ago with 9,000 miles. now on 39,000 miles. Never had a car this long.

Yep looks great I always spec white GT3s they are the fastest for sure. :

I wish I had a GT2 or GT3 now. For my sort of use so much better. Keeping an eye out

They're bloody awesome. Just back from God's country, and my favourite roads. Fantastic.

Which model are you after I?

D.no said: They're bloody awesome. Just back from God's country, and my favourite roads. Fantastic. Ah yes the Ribblehead viaduct. Settle up to the viaduct one of my favourite driving roads but watch for the scamera vans especially when the moronic bikers are about. There are better driving roads in Yorkshire but this is up with the best for sure.

Hi, There is a red UK supplied by OPC Bristol. PCM 3. Alastair Bols sold her. I've been waiting patiently for her to come up for sale again. Sold for all the money £160k or so in a flash a few years back think 2016. She was collector quality so may now be in a collection. Not the HWM red GT2 with yellow cage which may not be accurate odo! If not i'll maybe do something on the Hexagon red GT3 clubsport if she still around maybe but obviously need to a move a few out of my garage first. Bit long on cars at the mo. I'm not averse to a 991 GT3 either and my OPC knows I'll take their hand off on a 992 GT3

I love this one. If you guys ever need rebuild get a good engine builder and you have one of the most special cars ever made. https://rennlist.com/how-tos/slideshows/this-2007-...

D.no said: They're bloody awesome. Just back from God's country, and my favourite roads. Fantastic. 996s ain’t half bad

991 between Horton and Batty Moss.

Here’s mine, gone but not forgotten...

BrotherMouzone said: 996s ain’t half bad

av185 said: 991 between Horton and Batty Moss. Cracking. I grew up within spitting distance of the Dales, so this was my proving ground. Actually it still is, but there's a 3.5 hour drive to get there these days!

My white (of course) 991.2 GT3 near Kettlewell the other evening.

997.1 GT3 is a wonderful car, I did love mine, bonus points if you can guess the location of the photo.

Slightly off piste, do you chaps not find the 997 wanting for pace a tad in a world full of 400hp hot hatches? TX.

Budflicker said: 997.1 GT3 is a wonderful car, I did love mine, bonus points if you can guess the location of the photo. Hotel near the top of Stelvio pass?

Cunno said: Budflicker said: 997.1 GT3 is a wonderful car, I did love mine, bonus points if you can guess the location of the photo. Hotel near the top of Stelvio pass? Yes, Hotel Folgore, Stelvio. Good spot.

evodarren said: yes bought mine 8 years ago with 9,000 miles. now on 39,000 miles. Never had a car this long. Have a white 7.2 GT3 from new and by now on a similar mileage. Drive it as a daily but work related travel led to low usage the last two, three years. Did already three 1000 km runs this year to race weekends at the Ring. It makes an event out of every trip and is a keeper

Heading down Garsdale (Sedbergh to Hawes) Ride height not optimsed for some of the Dales roads Fortunately I have a new lip spoiler waiting in the garage for when this gets really bad (and a stock of brake cooling ducts!)

Yes i also have a new front spoiler in a box in the garage. Will give to the new owner, but advise to leave it in the box lol

997 gt3 / rs / 458/ speciale any one of these is all you'd ever need imo, incredible cars

WCZ said: 997 gt3 / rs / 458/ speciale any one of these is all you'd ever need imo, incredible cars Yep the 458 is a great package but too big for UK B road enertainment imo. As ever this is where the smaller and more chuckable 911 scores especially in GT3 guise. I would also rate the incredible 4.0 GT3 991.2 engine over the 458.

Terminator X said: Slightly off piste, do you chaps not find the 997 wanting for pace a tad in a world full of 400hp hot hatches? TX. I think, if your ego is sufficiently fragile to be in danger from dicing and rubbing shoulders with a contemporary hot hatch, you have bigger issues to worry about than mere horsepower. Modern hot hatches have moved on leaps and bounds, way beyond where most of us ever believed they could in terms of brute power vs. torque steer. A 997 is a wonderful machine in track. Indicating to let the odd, well-driven 400+hp hot hatch past, is no more of a hardship than letting a 500hp 991 GT cars past. Competitive but courteous driving is the order of the day. Who over took who?

Love the idea of one of these, but am put off by frequent mentions of inadequate ride height, scraping, etc. And the possibility of the ride being too stiff. I do almost 100% of my driving on pockmarked B-roads...what is really the practical usability of these cars in such circumstances?

plenty said: Love the idea of one of these, but am put off by frequent mentions of inadequate ride height, scraping, etc. And the possibility of the ride being too stiff. I do almost 100% of my driving on pockmarked B-roads...what is really the practical usability of these cars in such circumstances? Easily sorted with aftermarket suspensions.

BrotherMouzone said: plenty said: Love the idea of one of these, but am put off by frequent mentions of inadequate ride height, scraping, etc. And the possibility of the ride being too stiff. I do almost 100% of my driving on pockmarked B-roads...what is really the practical usability of these cars in such circumstances? Easily sorted with aftermarket suspensions. That's reassuring. What's a good setup for bumpy lanes?

plenty said: That's reassuring. What's a good setup for bumpy lanes? I can’t speak for 997 as I own a 996, but mine (with Moton and a mild set-up) is a blast on Scottish B-roads. Drive with fingertips and it doesn’t chase camber. I said it elsewhere before, it feels like a tarmac rally car! I’m sure 997 owners will tell you that the car is very adjustable and it can be set up to suit. Edit to add: worth a read about Chris Harris’ old 997.1 GT3. I have the article on my computer but can’t link it here but this is a related thread and jackwood’s article https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... http://drivecult.com/articles/491/the-ultimate-loa... Edited by BrotherMouzone on Tuesday 11th August 19:15 Edited by BrotherMouzone on Tuesday 11th August 19:15 Edited by BrotherMouzone on Tuesday 11th August 19:18

I've been contemplating a gt3 for some time now but question is it worth the big step up financially from a modified c2s? I've fitted folding buckets, short shift, ducktail, Fuchs alloys plus other bits and bobs to give me a more focused car. Is the gt3 so much better than a c2s then the rs that much better again?

plenty said: Love the idea of one of these, but am put off by frequent mentions of inadequate ride height, scraping, etc. And the possibility of the ride being too stiff. I do almost 100% of my driving on pockmarked B-roads...what is really the practical usability of these cars in such circumstances? The ride height is adjustable (though in most cases these days the collars will have seized to the damper body). With my current setup I do find wheel travel to be the biggest limitation on very bumpy roads with lots of dips and crests and have to moderate my progress accordingly. For me, this is a good thing, and is my chosen compromise based on majority usage. A good set of passives will no doubt transform things - take a look at some of the Belgian rally videos on Youtube... I'm not best placed to comment on the ride being too stiff as I pretty-much go everywhere with the dampers in their "sport" setting - it somehow suits the character of the car and (again with my setup) sharpens the turn-in and front-end bite. There will be much quicker cars for tackling pock-marked B-roads, but not many that are more fun, or engaging.

Kettmark said: I've been contemplating a gt3 for some time now but question is it worth the big step up financially from a modified c2s? I've fitted folding buckets, short shift, ducktail, Fuchs alloys plus other bits and bobs to give me a more focused car. Is the gt3 so much better than a c2s then the rs that much better again? One thing the old mezger engined GT3s have over the carreras is the subtle change of character at speed, road or track. On a first drive they can feel a bit agricultural, heavy driver interface points like the clutch and brakes are at odds with the light front end and natural understeer. The harder you drive them, the more they come into their own. To the point where with other cars (Carreras as well to some degree) you almost wince in mechanical sympathy over what you're doing to them (constantly revving to the limiter, standing the car on it's nose, bouncing over curbs on track) yet the GT3 will start to feel more at home. Taking all punishment in it's stride. Double laps at the ring, then pit and swap over drivers and another double lap, the car just soaks it up. If you can keep it in fuel and consumables a 997 GT3 can do more than 99% of most of us ever will need to at speed.

Out of interest, how much (roughly) to rebuild the GT3 engines? Using a reference point of say £12K for a regular 911 at hartech.

DoubleTime said: Out of interest, how much (roughly) to rebuild the GT3 engines? Using a reference point of say £12K for a regular 911 at hartech. All depends on what is wrong in first place, but for a straight like for like budget £16-20k. But normally good for 80 -100k miles before this is needed, and there are some well over this without the need for a rebuilding

Don’t track my 997.2 GT3. All fast A and B roads plus motorways to get to those A and B roads. Had a DSC controller - swaps out OEM control unit for DSC with faster and broader range of reactions - fitted, car is more compliant but still retains its stiffness and rawness. Perfect balance for me.

996 and 997 GT3 best cars Porsche have ever made full stop. The high water mark. I'd love 500bhp 4.0 RS but this would be no down grade.

BrotherMouzone said: plenty said: Love the idea of one of these, but am put off by frequent mentions of inadequate ride height, scraping, etc. And the possibility of the ride being too stiff. I do almost 100% of my driving on pockmarked B-roads...what is really the practical usability of these cars in such circumstances? Easily sorted with aftermarket suspensions. And even from OPC, splitters are pretty inexpensive. My splitter is about as knackered as D.No's. Mainly because the pillocks who run the P&O ferry terminal in Rotterdam have not mastered the knack of setting up the departure ramps like the crew in Hull have. I don;t use it on roads too much, but have caught the splitter the odd time in compressions, but nothing major. I can happily live with it on A and B roads.

Digga said: And even from OPC, splitters are pretty inexpensive. I bought one a couple of months ago, but can't find the invoice. From memory it was ~£270 inc.VAT. Surprisingly the OPC was cheaper than the main non-OPC alternatives for this item. The brake cooling scoops (the ones that clip around the suspension arm, and also take a hammering) are currently ridiculously cheap at D911 - £3.87 per side. I seriously thought this was a typo until the parts turned up!

Interesting feedback chaps - thanks! Given aftermarket suspension mods seem to be the way forward when tuning for the road, is there still any benefit of the 997 versus the 996?

plenty said: Interesting feedback chaps - thanks! Given aftermarket suspension mods seem to be the way forward when tuning for the road, is there still any benefit of the 997 versus the 996? Arguably not, because the 997 diff ramps/plates are sub-optimal. Guards Transmission Cup ramps being the best current alternative, since the OEM Cup items ceased supply.

Digga said: Arguably not, because the 997 diff ramps/plates are sub-optimal. Guards Transmission Cup ramps being the best current alternative, since the OEM Cup items ceased supply. RPM fitted the 4.0L clutch, LWFW and motor sport diff to my car last year. OEM parts were available at the time but were bought direct from Germany as I understand. Re splitters and brake ducts some 7.2GT3 had lift as an option. Works well and pretty quick,7secs or so. The cars do run low and as Digga says can present a problem at ferries, Tunnel not so much.

plenty said: Interesting feedback chaps - thanks! Given aftermarket suspension mods seem to be the way forward when tuning for the road, is there still any benefit of the 997 versus the 996? I actually like the duality of PASM and am in no rush to "upgrade" the suspension. The pursuit of outright speed and capability is missing the point in my view. If that's the end goal, there are better alternatives. I savour every drive in my car because of it's flaws and intricacies, not despite them, in much the same mindset that must exist with the ownership of any classic car.

Next up for mine, side silencer by-pass. Drops a whopping 17kgs weight from back of car and also reduces heat in rear arches by about 5 degrees, so save a bit of tyre wear too.

D.no said: plenty said: Interesting feedback chaps - thanks! Given aftermarket suspension mods seem to be the way forward when tuning for the road, is there still any benefit of the 997 versus the 996? I actually like the duality of PASM and am in no rush to "upgrade" the suspension. The pursuit of outright speed and capability is missing the point in my view. If that's the end goal, there are better alternatives. I savour every drive in my car because of it's flaws and intricacies, not despite them, in much the same mindset that must exist with the ownership of any classic car. I totally appreciate that point of view. But from perspective it's a straightforward question of whether this car suits my needs or not. I am generally not a fan of low-slung, stiffly sprung cars with huge tyres. Cars that are tuned for the track aren't good on the road, in my experience. I often find myself changing suspension on cars I own in suit my needs. Like everyone else the idea of a GT3 appeals to me, but if doesn't work well on poorly-maintained British roads there's no point. Usability>purity in my book. Edited by plenty on Wednesday 12th August 14:12

Confident you’ll find any GT3 eminently usable on the great British B-road!!

plenty said: I totally appreciate that point of view. But from perspective it's quite simple. I am generally not a fan of low-slung, stiffly sprung cars with huge tyres. My current favourite fun car runs on 195/50/15s, has nice soft springs and has healthy arch gaps. Like everyone I love the idea of a GT3 in theory, but for me it needs to be fully usable on poorly-maintained British roads otherwise there's no point. Usability>purity in my book. A GT3 is not for you, based on above I’d suggest you look else where imo. If you want a road car there are better choices out there. I’ve owned mine 12 years and it’s a keeper but I wouldn’t want to use it on just B roads hoons even with passive damper spring rates are to harsh. Yes you can play with these but you might as well start with a more compliant car in first place.

D.no said: plenty said: Interesting feedback chaps - thanks! Given aftermarket suspension mods seem to be the way forward when tuning for the road, is there still any benefit of the 997 versus the 996? I actually like the duality of PASM and am in no rush to "upgrade" the suspension. The pursuit of outright speed and capability is missing the point in my view. If that's the end goal, there are better alternatives. I savour every drive in my car because of it's flaws and intricacies, not despite them, in much the same mindset that must exist with the ownership of any classic car. I totally appreciate that point of view. But for me it's a straightforward question of whether this car suits my needs or not. I am generally not a fan of low-slung, stiffly sprung cars with huge tyres. Cars that are tuned for the track aren't good on the road, in my experience. I often find myself changing suspension on cars to suit my needs. The latest example being my R26.R which despite all of the rave reviews isn't great on our beautiful smooth roads so I'm swapping in coilovers with softer spring rates and hopefully better-quality damping. The idea of a GT3 appeals, but if doesn't work well on poorly-maintained British roads there's no point. Usability>purity in my book.

Digga said: Next up for mine, side silencer by-pass. Drops a whopping 17kgs weight from back of car and also reduces heat in rear arches by about 5 degrees, so save a bit of tyre wear too. Love it Digga I did find the Sharkwerks variety a little overpriced now for what it is, but you pays your money...had a perfectly nice no-frills one made for the 7.2 by Hayward & Scott in Basildon.

Fl0pp3r said: Digga said: Next up for mine, side silencer by-pass. Drops a whopping 17kgs weight from back of car and also reduces heat in rear arches by about 5 degrees, so save a bit of tyre wear too. Love it Digga I did find the Sharkwerks variety a little overpriced now for what it is, but you pays your money...had a perfectly nice no-frills one made for the 7.2 by Hayward & Scott in Basildon. Going JCR titanium route, on recommendation from various PHers.

Just picked this up and will spend the remainder of summer finding out how good they are ...

Had my first real drive in it last weekend after over 14 months ownership. Up the m40 then through some A roads leading into broadway past castle combe circuit. What a thing it is It reminds me of riding my motorbike which sounds odd but the feedback and connection is much more palpable than it was with my front engined pork or the 964 Im crap at rev matching and i cant yet work the box smoothly but thats part of the fun Cant wait to get more miles on it

Digga said: Going JCR titanium route, on recommendation from various PHers. Ooooh laaadeedaaa eh! (Kidding) That sounds bloody awesome mate

MDL111 said: Just picked this up and will spend the remainder of summer finding out how good they are ... That looks lovely. Let us know what you think of her.

MDL111 said: Just picked this up and will spend the remainder of summer finding out how good they are ... They are pretty ****ing awesome I think you will find MDL.... Keeping the dream alive Geoff!!

ZH997 said: rrroro said: I would love to see a detailed breakdown of exactly what preventative maintenance has been done on Hebe over the years. That would be a useful insight for all 996/997 GT3/RS owners Actually what am I talking about, I doubt any preventative maintenance will have been done at all, more a case of throwing out worn items and replacing them with brand new bits (like with the steering wheel as mentioned in the article). I suppose the same would have happened with the gearbox, suspension components etc. I wonder if any work has ever been needed on the coolant pipes, probably replaced and re-glued to original factory spec at a guess if they needed attention The car is serviced like any other press car which means a lot of inspections and a more thorough maintenance schedule. It’s obviously had a tough life with every drive being a journo thrashing it. Diff wasn’t right when I had it, was rebuilt when I dropped it back. I doubt it’s had anything like pinned lines as everything is still “Porsche Approved”. That’s interesting. What was wrong with the diff when you had the car, what behaviour was the car exhibiting? I’m surprised they let the car go out like that given the inspections and more thorough maintenance you mentioned Anyone know what diff plates are fitted as standard to the 7.2 RS? Is it the motorsport cup plates or the same ones fitted to the regular GT3 which are made of Cadburys?

rrroro said: Anyone know what diff plates are fitted as standard to the 7.2 RS? Is it the motorsport cup plates or the same ones fitted to the regular GT3 which are made of Cadburys? The problem is less the diff plates and more the ramps. Without getting into too much detail, the 996 had more pronounced ramp angles. Back in early 2000’s when the 997 was developed they thought using ABS instead, would be the future. As we all now know, you can do very clever stuff with individual wheel braking, but on track, it cooks your brakes, especially rears. Fast. The increase in slip at the diff also cooks the plates. Mine runs Guards Transmission diff ramps. I don’t know if JZM can still get hold of them.

4pot said: I see a theme.

rrroro said: Anyone know what diff plates are fitted as standard to the 7.2 RS? Is it the motorsport cup plates or the same ones fitted to the regular GT3 which are made of Cadburys? The RS has the same diff setup as the gt3. Yes they are chocolate as standard and you'll start wearing your rear brakes like crazy even with esc off in no time at all. As Digga said, cup plates and (higher) guards ramps is the way to go.

My 6 month of ownership… I wish I’d been able to afford one of these 10 years ago, but I’m so glad I have one now. I’ve driven both a 991 and my 997 now, I made the right choice!

IbanezDan said: . I’ve driven both a 991 and my 997 now, I made the right choice! I’ve been on track in every GT3 and RS variant of the 991, gen 1 and 2. I’ve also driven a few. The 991 is a stunning GT but the emotion, the visceral appeal of the Mezger is very, very different. It’s all very personal, highly subjective, but I know where the fun is, even if not the lap times.

rrroro said: That’s interesting. What was wrong with the diff when you had the car, what behaviour was the car exhibiting? I’m surprised they let the car go out like that given the inspections and more thorough maintenance you mentioned Anyone know what diff plates are fitted as standard to the 7.2 RS? Is it the motorsport cup plates or the same ones fitted to the regular GT3 which are made of Cadburys? Loud clicking/grinding noises. The car had been sat for a long while and I had it on short notice.

Digga said: I see a theme. Definitely!

ZH997 said: Loud clicking/grinding noises. The car had been sat for a long while and I had it on short notice. That sounds normal to me, haha! (Although I was a 996 not 997 owner). You'll know if the diff is shot when you brake HARD down from 3 figures on track, the car will squirm like mad.

thelostboy said: So is there a BBS specialist in the UK that does the E88? I would love a set, but have always read about them breaking. Nevertheless, for me they look perfect. I pounded track kerbs for 14 years with E88s. I also read this before buying them (from Gert at Carnewal) but never had a problem. Possibly just lucky?

Harris_I said: thelostboy said: So is there a BBS specialist in the UK that does the E88? I would love a set, but have always read about them breaking. Nevertheless, for me they look perfect. I pounded track kerbs for 14 years with E88s. I also read this before buying them (from Gert at Carnewal) but never had a problem. Possibly just lucky? Could you be referring to the magnesium centred E88s of old ? They have been aluminium for a while now and are plenty strong, I had some on my 993 and no problems with their strength in many miles of road driving.

Digga said: The problem is less the diff plates and more the ramps. Without getting into too much detail, the 996 had more pronounced ramp angles. Back in early 2000’s when the 997 was developed they thought using ABS instead, would be the future. As we all now know, you can do very clever stuff with individual wheel braking, but on track, it cooks your brakes, especially rears. Fast. The increase in slip at the diff also cooks the plates. Mine runs Guards Transmission diff ramps. I don’t know if JZM can still get hold of them. An alternative view on the diff, if the car is for road use. I had a Guard GT2 Pro diff and the understeer it caused was immediately noticeable I persevered with it until it eventually broke I then bought a very nice and shiny new Drexler LSD specced as per Ruf/9ff do for RWD high power turbo Pork, the understeer was even worse the diff completely dominated the car and for the road it wasn't much fun it felt like the rear was ultra tight and owned the drive. After doing research on the 997 set up and the engineers' quest to make the car feel more lively for road driving (in comparison with the 996) using the ABS and nanny sensors I could see that I missed this element which made the 997 so playful on the road. I blasphemously changed the Drexler for a Wavetrac which is similar to a Quaife and have been happy ever since, car drives how factory intended and the unit has stood up well to lots of abuse so far. BTW I have the Drexler sitting in a box as new if any track guys need one ? Edited by TB993tt on Friday 9th September 14:22

TB993tt said: An alternative view on the diff, if the car is for road use. I had a Guard GT2 Pro diff and the understeer it caused was immediately noticeable I persevered with it until it eventually broke I then bought a very nice and shiny new Drexler LSD specced as per Ruf/9ff do for RWD high power turbo Pork, the understeer was even worse the diff completely dominated the car and for the road it wasn't much fun it felt like the rear was ultra tight and owned the drive. After doing research on the 997 set up and the engineers' quest to make the car feel more lively for road driving (in comparison with the 996) using the ABS and nanny sensors I could see that I missed this element which made the 997 so playful on the road. I blasphemously changed the Drexler for a Wavetrac which is similar to a Quaife and have been happy ever since, car drives how factory intended and the unit has stood up well to lots of abuse so far. BTW I have the Drexler sitting in a box as new if any track guys need one ? The guards GT2 pro diff is a 50/80 though so considerably higher than the 996 OEM diff at 40/60 (OEM 997 is 28/40 iirc)....? that though would have quite a substantial effect on perceived understeer and the 50/80 split i think is used on the Cup cars so perhaps unsurprisingly not quite ideal on the road.

TB993tt said: Harris_I said: thelostboy said: So is there a BBS specialist in the UK that does the E88? I would love a set, but have always read about them breaking. Nevertheless, for me they look perfect. I pounded track kerbs for 14 years with E88s. I also read this before buying them (from Gert at Carnewal) but never had a problem. Possibly just lucky? Could you be referring to the magnesium centred E88s of old ? They have been aluminium for a while now and are plenty strong, I had some on my 993 and no problems with their strength in many miles of road driving. For sure the old Magnesium centered E88/E28 spokes cracked when those wheels were used as their makers intended (and it was more a question of when they'd crack, rather than if) but the swap to the forged aluminium centres (with the scalloped spokes) laid that issue to rest once and for all, But .... what it didn’t address was the inner rim sections cracking : And that thorny issue remains to this day ... The E88 is a wonderful wheel, and visually stunning to boot, but they’re not the lightest or most durable compared with some of the competition’s modern one piece forged offerings. And whilst the OZ Alleggerita may not have the cachet of BBS E88s, they’re lighter, stronger, easier to clean and maintenance free in comparison, and they’re positively cheap too. And let’s not discuss the availability/lead times on E88’s ...

Still in love with this 997 that’s for sure…. newsflash - fantastic road car. Compliant enough on the way, then when you get to the passes…

Apropos of road use but also improved track, I can confirm improvements for both from fitting the DSC suspension control unit. I can also confirm enormously improved body control and on road comfort with the Tractive dampers with new Eibach springs. Really huge difference.

I love the grey/gold RS colour scheme

isaldiri said: I love the grey/gold RS colour scheme It’s the best. RSVP911 just bought one.

Just been looking at tractive website. There are a few choices for dampers for 997 GT3s .. from expensive to really expensive which is best cost/benefit version?

Fl0pp3r said: : Arrr lovely I do like a good road trip, that a great car to do one in

SFO said: Just been looking at tractive website. There are a few choices for dampers for 997 GT3s .. from expensive to really expensive which is best cost/benefit version? Road one is excellent, but you will also need DSC controller. Talk to a good Porsche installer; 9e or S&C.

Porsche 911 (997) GT3 - PH Used Buying Guide

LemonTart said: Arrr lovely I do like a good road trip, that a great car to do one in It was great LT, for various reasons I don’t want to beat her up on track much now, and I prefer the challenge of a good mountain pass overtake Booked the same small hotel nearby in Goeschenen (Hotel Chalet Krone, highly recommended) so you’ve got the Süsten, Grimsel, Furka, Gottard, Neufenen passes on your doorstep. Now I’ve got a nice extra lower back cushion sorted for the bucket, it doesn’t beat me up as much over long distances either. Not what you would call ‘cosseting’, but 8-10 hour days were not unpleasant, and no bad back afterwards. Honestly I could spend a whole week just driving around those roads…the Süsten is the pick of the bunch. Digga said: Apropos of road use but also improved track, I can confirm improvements for both from fitting the DSC suspension control unit. I can also confirm enormously improved body control and on road comfort with the Tractive dampers with new Eibach springs. Really huge difference. Diggs to respond to your argument in favour of a DSC box - it’s really interesting…I previously used one to good effect in the standard 7.2 GT3 where it definitely provided an improvement in precision without corrupting compliance. However, I’ve found I’ve been unable to replicate that experience with the RS. In Normal PASM mode - using the standard controller - the RS has a really enjoyable compliance that’s great for (bumpy) roads. When I plug the DSC module in, for some reason the ride becomes unpleasantly harsh (even in Normal setting), and I’ve played around with the software parameters a fair bit with help of the chaps at TPC. I gave up after a while and removed the module. I suspect DSC comes into its own for circuit work where the wider operating window for the shocks is useful, and you really want the Tractive dampers to take advantage. The RS has a different suspension setup to the GT3 and doesn’t seem to work quite as well with DSC (only in my limited experience mind!).

Fl0pp3r said: Diggs to respond to your argument in favour of a DSC box - it’s really interesting…I previously used one to good effect in the standard 7.2 GT3 where it definitely provided an improvement in precision without corrupting compliance. However, I’ve found I’ve been unable to replicate that experience with the RS. In Normal PASM mode - using the standard controller - the RS has a really enjoyable compliance that’s great for (bumpy) roads. When I plug the DSC module in, for some reason the ride becomes unpleasantly harsh (even in Normal setting), and I’ve played around with the software parameters a fair bit with help of the chaps at TPC. I gave up after a while and removed the module. I suspect DSC comes into its own for circuit work where the wider operating window for the shocks is useful, and you really want the Tractive dampers to take advantage. The RS has a different suspension setup to the GT3 and doesn’t seem to work quite as well with DSC (only in my limited experience mind!). If you don't mind me saying, I have to say I think given the above I do wonder if in the RS the dsc was plugged in and working properly. The 7.2 gt3 and rs have iirc exactly the same PET numbers for springs, dampers and oem pasm control box and does not have a different suspension setup per technical specs. If you had an improvement on the gt3 with the dsc module, it makes no sense that it would not do pretty much exactly the same for the rs and per your description of the ride in 'normal' becoming unacceptably harsh, it kind of sounds like the damper is defaulting (as it's designed i believe) to full hard in case of a control module failure.

SFO said: Just been looking at tractive website. There are a few choices for dampers for 997 GT3s .. from expensive to really expensive which is best cost/benefit version? I’ve been looking at this on and off for a while now, researching for when the time comes to upgrade my 997.1 GT3. I’ve read on forums that the Touring Line is the one to go for if road and occasional track use is what you’re after. However I’ve also read (911uk) about reliability issues involving a knocking sound, which seems to have been an ongoing issue for a number of years with tractive dampers. I don’t know if this is just scaremongering though or if it is a real issue, this is the internet after all. I’d like to know if upgrading the OEM Bilsteins would be a good option. I’ve read about B16 DampTronics which are for PASM/DSC. Anyone know if these are the standard dampers fitted to these cars, or if these are indeed an upgrade from standard? What model are the standard dampers if not DampTronics?

rrroro said: I’ve been looking at this on and off for a while now, researching for when the time comes to upgrade my 997.1 GT3. I’ve read on forums that the Touring Line is the one to go for if road and occasional track use is what you’re after. However I’ve also read (911uk) about reliability issues involving a knocking sound, which seems to have been an ongoing issue for a number of years with tractive dampers. I don’t know if this is just scaremongering though or if it is a real issue, this is the internet after all. I’d like to know if upgrading the OEM Bilsteins would be a good option. I’ve read about B16 DampTronics which are for PASM/DSC. Anyone know if these are the standard dampers fitted to these cars, or if these are indeed an upgrade from standard? What model are the standard dampers if not DampTronics? Bilsteins would be a decent upgrade over OEM. B16s iirc are the damptronic form of PSS9s. I'd say though for damping one tends to have to pay for one gets. The more expensive the better it tends to be.

isaldiri said: rrroro said: I’ve been looking at this on and off for a while now, researching for when the time comes to upgrade my 997.1 GT3. I’ve read on forums that the Touring Line is the one to go for if road and occasional track use is what you’re after. However I’ve also read (911uk) about reliability issues involving a knocking sound, which seems to have been an ongoing issue for a number of years with tractive dampers. I don’t know if this is just scaremongering though or if it is a real issue, this is the internet after all. I’d like to know if upgrading the OEM Bilsteins would be a good option. I’ve read about B16 DampTronics which are for PASM/DSC. Anyone know if these are the standard dampers fitted to these cars, or if these are indeed an upgrade from standard? What model are the standard dampers if not DampTronics? Bilsteins would be a decent upgrade over OEM. B16s iirc are the damptronic form of PSS9s. I'd say though for damping one tends to have to pay for one gets. The more expensive the better it tends to be. Ah. Have I got that wrong then? I thought that Bilsteins were the OEM fitment? I’m just not sure what model. If not Bilstein though what are they? Any idea?

rrroro said: Ah. Have I got that wrong then? I thought that Bilsteins were the OEM fitment? I’m just not sure what model. If not Bilstein though what are they? Any idea? OEMs are indeed made by Bilstein but I don't believe there is an exact 'Porsche spec' model that's offered up for sale generally like for say the B16s. The basic idea is very similar if not exactly the same between the damptronic/pasm I'm given to understand but the spec/quality/capability isn't quite the same.

rrroro said: Ah. Have I got that wrong then? I thought that Bilsteins were the OEM fitment? I’m just not sure what model. If not Bilstein though what are they? Any idea? OEM are Bilstein. Just had my fronts back to them for a once-over and the DU bush sorting. Rears still fine at 36k miles.

isaldiri said: rrroro said: Ah. Have I got that wrong then? I thought that Bilsteins were the OEM fitment? I’m just not sure what model. If not Bilstein though what are they? Any idea? OEMs are indeed made by Bilstein but I don't believe there is an exact 'Porsche spec' model that's offered up for sale generally like for say the B16s. The basic idea is very similar if not exactly the same between the damptronic/pasm I'm given to understand but the spec/quality/capability isn't quite the same. I may have this wrong, but I think the reaction time and also adjustment parameters are greater on the Tractives over the Bilstein.

Digga said: I may have this wrong, but I think the reaction time and also adjustment parameters are greater on the Tractives over the Bilstein. Yes that is supposed to be the case although I have to say I tend to think the improvement is more from 'higher quality damping' full stop from better engineering etc (which is reflected by the pricing) rather than the (imo) relatively minor stuff like faster electronic adjustment time and such which for me is more in the 'nice to have' category. Even if it was locked down at bump/rebound X and Y etc for example, I think it's quite possible (probable?) the tractive unit would be doing better than a Bilstein or OEM damper set to the same equivalent locked parameters. The question for me would be how far it would be from something like say an equivalently tuned Ohlins ttx unit and whether the electronic adjustment factor that the tractives can have would be able to bridge that gap at least partially.

I guess the advantage over the passive shocks, be they Ohlins, KW or whoever, is that the Tractive retains this ability to have two operating modes. I am sure there is an element of compromise there, that if you just wanted ultimate road or track performance, the high quality passives will win. However, for the convenience of being able to drive to and from the track in relative comfort, and then being able to dial things up a bit on the circuit, Bilsteins or Tractives are extremely attractive. They do manage to do a lot of things well.

Well there's always the option of messing around with damper clicks on track - I'm sure Lasource has been seen doing so previously Ultimately it's spring rate limited though, damper adjustability only is going to get one so far after all.

isaldiri said: Fl0pp3r said: Diggs to respond to your argument in favour of a DSC box - it’s really interesting…I previously used one to good effect in the standard 7.2 GT3 where it definitely provided an improvement in precision without corrupting compliance. However, I’ve found I’ve been unable to replicate that experience with the RS. In Normal PASM mode - using the standard controller - the RS has a really enjoyable compliance that’s great for (bumpy) roads. When I plug the DSC module in, for some reason the ride becomes unpleasantly harsh (even in Normal setting), and I’ve played around with the software parameters a fair bit with help of the chaps at TPC. I gave up after a while and removed the module. I suspect DSC comes into its own for circuit work where the wider operating window for the shocks is useful, and you really want the Tractive dampers to take advantage. The RS has a different suspension setup to the GT3 and doesn’t seem to work quite as well with DSC (only in my limited experience mind!). If you don't mind me saying, I have to say I think given the above I do wonder if in the RS the dsc was plugged in and working properly. The 7.2 gt3 and rs have iirc exactly the same PET numbers for springs, dampers and oem pasm control box and does not have a different suspension setup per technical specs. If you had an improvement on the gt3 with the dsc module, it makes no sense that it would not do pretty much exactly the same for the rs and per your description of the ride in 'normal' becoming unacceptably harsh, it kind of sounds like the damper is defaulting (as it's designed i believe) to full hard in case of a control module failure. Yeah I must say I do wonder whether the darned thing is working properly mate! Was fine in the previous car. I have done a lot of uploading/tinkering with it previously so maybe I’ve messed it up. When I said “different suspension set up”, I really meant shock absorber tuning and spring rates - which I was under the impression are specific to the RS and not identical to the vanilla 7.2 GT3, but I’m not sure of the intricacies.

Fl0pp3r said: When I said “different suspension set up”, I really meant shock absorber tuning and spring rates - which I was under the impression are specific to the RS and not identical to the vanilla 7.2 GT3, but I’m not sure of the intricacies. I really don't think so tbh. the parts (springs/dampers and control module) all iirc point to exactly the same ones between the 7.2rs and 7.2gt3 on the PET. There are some control arm related differences but should not be really relevant to shock tuning/spring rates. the 4.0rs is a little different especially at the rear but not the 3.8rs.

isaldiri said: I really don't think so tbh. the parts (springs/dampers and control module) all iirc point to exactly the same ones between the 7.2rs and 7.2gt3 on the PET. There are some control arm related differences but should not be really relevant to shock tuning/spring rates. the 4.0rs is a little different especially at the rear but not the 3.8rs . Don’t forget, you can spec the 4 litre type spring and helper with the Tractives. Even on a lowly 7.1 GT3.

TB993tt said: An alternative view on the diff, if the car is for road use. I had a Guard GT2 Pro diff and the understeer it caused was immediately noticeable I persevered with it until it eventually broke I then bought a very nice and shiny new Drexler LSD specced as per Ruf/9ff do for RWD high power turbo Pork, the understeer was even worse the diff completely dominated the car and for the road it wasn't much fun it felt like the rear was ultra tight and owned the drive. After doing research on the 997 set up and the engineers' quest to make the car feel more lively for road driving (in comparison with the 996) using the ABS and nanny sensors I could see that I missed this element which made the 997 so playful on the road. I blasphemously changed the Drexler for a Wavetrac which is similar to a Quaife and have been happy ever since, car drives how factory intended and the unit has stood up well to lots of abuse so far. BTW I have the Drexler sitting in a box as new if any track guys need one ? Edited by TB993tt on Friday 9th September 14:22 Age old thread, but I’m in the market for an LSD for my 996TT… Anyone got any input/suggestion? Drexler sales?

Guards Transmission (GT) in the USA build one for the GT3 which is same gearbox. I know JZM used to sell those in the past.

I still have only one Porsche from that period ( 7.1RS) which I kept for sentimental reasons I think ,as it was my first new Porsche. Basically same engine as the GT3 except for a single-mass flywheel as I recall. I no longer track it but it still drive it fairly regular and am not bothered by the heavy clutch. The thing has been bulletproof, rock solid reliable. One clutch replacement. It is a tricker car in the wet than the 7.2 and at very high autobahn speeds it tends to lift ( not true for the 7.2). I keep my cars completely OEM, just a personal bias, so no experience with modifications/upgrades apart from replacing the PCCM with the current factory version. As it is 19 years old I no longer put Cup 2s on it but use PilotSports which are fine for road use. Still a fun car to drive, no nannies of any kind.

RDMcG said: no nannies of any kind. If I recall correctly, the 997 GT3 had PASM unlike the 996. Which meant the front dampers would bizarrely stiffen up when trail braking into a turn and cause understeer. The passive dampers on the 996 were much better for the track.

Harris_I said: If I recall correctly, the 997 GT3 had PASM unlike the 996. Which meant the front dampers would bizarrely stiffen up when trail braking into a turn and cause understeer. The passive dampers on the 996 were much better for the track. Correct. That's why I eventually swapped to passive Ohlins on my 997.1 GT3. My new to me 991.2 GT3 RS has faster acting PASM, but still does a bit of this. It's most noticeable on higher entry speed corners that need a bit of brake. I've already got a set of Manhthey KW's - just need to get them fitted.