N rated tyres on a 997.2S, Nice to have or Must have? - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Hi all I am in a little quandary sorry to reignite the great tyre debate(again), its much the same as oil and other similar emotive discussions. I currently have some age old Bridgestone Potenzas on my 997.2 S and they are all going in the bin, so in the market for 4 new boots, so whatever I fit will be a major step change. The question is to do I either replace them with, the only N rated tyres I can find which are Pirelli PZeros which don’t get the best of reviews either in general and or for 911’s. Or do I go for a non N rated Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. To be honest trying to find the same make and model is proving hard enough let alone an N rated version. There is £200 difference in the cost with the Pirellis being the more expensive, this is not a deal breaker but a consideration for me. The car is realistically only used in the summer with predominantly dry roads and no track days doing ~3000 miles pa. What is the collective wisdom? I am leaning to the MPS4S… Thanks in advance for your thoughts Cheers alex

Had thought they'd dropped the outdated N requirement for warranty stuff now. Definitely don't go for the P-Zeros they are awful.

Depending on your wheel sizes you may find the Michelins are in "XL" specification, which is essentially an SUV tyre. XL are tailored for heavy SUV type vehicles and may have a very strong sidewall. I had some MPS4S on a big sports car after removing run-flats and in all honesty the ride was much the same. Having said that, for all I know some "N" tyres might also be XL rated. After all, Mr Porsche does build SUVs.

Early-bird said: Definitely don't go for the P-Zeros they are awful. In what way? I just did did a quick google search and, "The Pirelli P Zero (particularly the PZ4) is a premium ultra-high-performance tire, praised for exceptional dry/wet grip, precise steering, and stability. As a frequent OEM choice for supercars it excels in sporty handling but may have shorter tread life compared to touring tires."

N rated stuff is old. Conti Sport Contact 7 are the way.

You may find this useful https://youtu.be/dgQU0NkBfhE?si=zJ9fAcD9AYYt1Duz

Panamax said: In what way? I just did did a quick google search and, "The Pirelli P Zero (particularly the PZ4) is a premium ultra-high-performance tire, praised for exceptional dry/wet grip, precise steering, and stability. As a frequent OEM choice for supercars it excels in sporty handling but may have shorter tread life compared to touring tires." PZ4 has nice steering feel, but grip drops off dramatically when they get below 4mm. Also don't really work well until fully up to temp, they are particularly prone to scrubbing the front end at low speed (Ackermann effect). There are much better tyres. (My last 3 sets. PZ4 , MPS4s, Conti SC7). Michelin PS4s- Slightly numb the steering feel, great grip in all summer conditions and fantastic wear characteristics. Continental Sport Contact 7- Combine the Pirelli steering feel with the grip of the Michelin or better. Wear much quicker than the Michelin. Less of a concern if you are a low mileage user. Bridgestone Potenza Sport EVO. The EVO bit is important, it's an upgrade to resolve the wear issues on its predecessor. I've not driven these, but they are meant to combine the steering feel of the best above and have good durability.

FL Racing said: You may find this useful https://youtu.be/dgQU0NkBfhE?si=zJ9fAcD9AYYt1Duz Yes I also was going to suggest the OP had a look through the same resource, from Jon at tyrereviews https://www.tyrereviews.com/

Thank you for the replies so far, just helped to nudge me further away from the N rated tyres, all look to be older models and hard to come by , so a bit more expensive to boot as well! Great point on the XL rated, not clocked that but the MPS4S was an XL rated so wont go for them either. I am leaning towards after reading and watching content on https://www.tyrereviews.com/, great website, towards the Conti Sportcontact 7, as recommended here. Seen the wear rate might be higher but for my mileage and type of use, will likely age hardened before I wear them out. I can also get Goodyear F1 Supersports but they don’t quite such good reviews and are a more track focused tyre, which I don’t want or need. Any more thoughts really appreciated

I've done over 12k on SC7s on my Cayman and still have about 3.5mm left on the rears.

I've never had N rated tyres on my 997.2S. My go to has usually been the Michelins (MPS4) and never had any complaints. The last year I have been on Continentals (SC7) and I would say they are very much on par with the MPS4s. M11rph said: Michelin PS4s- Slightly numb the steering feel, great grip in all summer conditions and fantastic wear characteristics. Continental Sport Contact 7- Combine the Pirelli steering feel with the grip of the Michelin or better. Wear much quicker than the Michelin. Less of a concern if you are a low mileage user. I agree with the wear speed quoted above, the SC7s do seem to have dropped off a bit lately and there's still quite a bit of tread left. I have never noticed numb steering with the Michelins, but in fairness when I first got the car I bought them to replace the very elderly but not that worn tyres that were on it and the difference was massive.

Appreciate not the same model but just changed tyres on my 992.1 C4S. I went for Michelin PS4s, which i had on my 718 Cayman GTS and loved, replacing Pirelli PZeros. But for interest can go onto on Michelin UK website, put in exact model and year of your car and you'll get the recommendations. Mine turned out size wise to be XL NA0s which i bought. https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/manufacturers/pors...

What I hate about the PZero is the loss of traction in the wet, which is non linear, unlike all other ultra high performance road tyres. For this reason alone I'd never have PZeros.

can confirm Pzeros (albeit on a 996.2) made me fear for my life as soon as any moisture appeared on the roads. Currently on Goodyear F1 assy 5.

thank you all, much appreciated all of your thoughts! I have ended up going for Conti SportContact 7s based on your thoughts, Tyrereview.com views and my usage and lastly taking into account what I can get in terms of availability. I will let you know how i get on with them

I probably get through more tyres than most given my car is used only for pleasure drives on deserted roads. I wish I could say otherwise as it becomes an expensive activity. Anyway I’ve tried quite a few options many of which were not N rated. In general, the more recent the technology and tyre virtually always mean more grip, wet or dry. I’m obviously talking established brands here not ditch finders. The PS4S is still a very good tyre and tends to get more mileage, I would say comfortably 25 % as a rough estimate. Conti C 7 is excellent in terms of grip but will wear faster. A few years ago I went from PSS to C7 on an M2 and the difference was stark. The grip in the wet was leagues better. However brands like Kumho with the new PS72 S should not be dismissed, or Maxxis with the new VS6 - extremely grippy wet and dry. I also like the PZ4 which is miles better than the P Zero and has nice steering feel. I haven’t tried the PZ5 yet. These are my opinions - everyone may disagree. This is relative to pure sports driving, so my rating is based on grip and predictability.

Early-bird said: Definitely don't go for the P-Zeros they are awful. I wonder why so many high performance car manufacturers fit them if they're that bad?

NDA said: Early-bird said: Definitely don't go for the P-Zeros they are awful. I wonder why so many high performance car manufacturers fit them if they're that bad? Really ? You're a head of procurement at a car manufacturer, your company builds 260,000 cars a year, and Pirelli offer you tyres that are £10 cheaper each than the equivalent Michelin, Continental and Goodyear. As the head buyer, which company would you place the order with ?

They’re not. I’ve got no vested interest in Pirelli’s, although my experience with them has been excellent. But, more significantly: - Why would virtually all manufacturers, especially high-end sports and supercar marques, fit them as OE? - They supply these cars for road tests and media scrutiny with them fitted - They seem to perform at the top level in most independent tyre tests - They have a long and successful involvement in all levels of motorsport - and most notably at the cutting edge of F1 That’s not to say that someone might not have had a bad experience with them, in a particular situation. But, any sweeping generalisation that Pirelli’s are somehow rubbish has no credibility .

Slippydiff said: You're a head of procurement at a car manufacturer, your company builds 260,000 cars a year, and Pirelli offer you tyres that are £10 cheaper each than the equivalent Michelin, Continental and Goodyear. As the head buyer, which company would you place the order with ? With cars going out to every journalist and motoring channel around the world - would I put the cheapest tyres on my cars? Hmmm. Not sure. Ferrari make around 14,000 cars a year and fit Pirelli to many of their models.

NDA said: With cars going out to every journalist and motoring channel around the world - would I put the cheapest tyres on my cars? Hmmm. Not sure. Ferrari make around 14,000 cars a year and fit Pirelli to many of their models. What Porsche fit to their press cars may not be what they fit to the majority of the production cars ... Porsche fitted Pirelli P Zero Rossos to numerous 996/986 cars in the late 90's early 2000's. They were roundly criticised by many (do a search for "PistonHeads Pirelli P Zero Rossos", you'll find plenty of detractors) Any new Ferrari model will have its tyres specifically engineered to suit it, I'd imagine Pirelli have a close working relationship with Ferrari. Furthermore Ferrari are building tiny numbers of cars annually compared with Porsche, and are possibly less price sensitive.

Michelin PS4S are great in the wet, great in the dry, but steering feel is all but gone, they are very vague off centre. The N rated ones have a much firmer compound on the outside 1/3 of the tyre and this is meant to help, but don't think they are in the right size for your car. For me, loosing that super sharp steering feel is a deal breaker. The Pirelli's are horrid when they get cold, and in the wet they are shocking, not ideal for the UK. The new PZ5 is meant to be far better. The Bridgestone Potenza Sport is superb, great steering, amazing in the wet, better than the PS4S imho, and just a nice tyre, but, they wear super quick and MPG is noticeably down. EU have actually banned them, think a new version coming. Heard nothing but good things about the Continental Sport Contact 7, great grip, comfy, and the steering feel is back too. Everyone I know who made the jump from PS4S has been well impressed and wouldn't go back. I think the CSC7 has to be the best all round tyre for these cars right now. Edited by Ed.Neumann on Saturday 4th April 22:40

Ed.Neumann said: I think the CSC7 has to be the best all round tyre for these cars right now. Edited by Ed.Neumann on Saturday 4th April 22:40 Is that all round in Sprint/Summer or all year round?

Slippydiff said: Any new Ferrari model will have its tyres specifically engineered to suit it, I'd imagine Pirelli have a close working relationship with Ferrari. Yep, also true for Pirelli/Porsche, Pirelli/Lamborghini, Pirelli/Aston etc

Jones the cat said: Is that all round in Sprint/Summer or all year round? All year round. But I'm only going off what others have said, feels as good as the PS4S in the wet, still feels as good in cold temps and only starts to fall off as you dip below around 4-5ºc, and the steering feel is back. Nice sharp turn in and very direct off centre. I'm in Cambridge so don't tend to get silly weather here, and when I do I don't really take the 911 out anyway. If it was my daily, or I was using it a lot more with a chance of having to use it in the wet when below 3ºc (which is where my Bridgestones start to be noticeably worse grip and noise wise.) I would probably put on an a cross climate sport. I bought a second set of wheels with the PS4S fitted, going from the Bridgetsones that were on my car I was gobsmacked at how numb the car felt, really wooly feeling off centre, lost that super sharp turn in. As a Michelin fanboy that was a bit of a shock, one of the reasons I bought the wheels was because they had 6 month old PS4S tyres fitted, which would always be my go to tyre. I went back and forth with the two sets, triple checked pressures and realised that the Michelin while pretty quiet, comfy, excellent wet grip and good dry grip just made the car feel more like a golf. A few owners have noticed the same, and some of them have gone over to Conti Sport Contact 7s and said they are brilliant, steering feel back and no noticeable down sides other than wear rate. But I only do 5k miles a year, so if I have to change the rears every 2 years instead of every 3 years I so what? I'm not going to ruin the feel of the car for the sake of saving what? £300 over 2 years. One thing I should mention, if you have very aggressive camber on the front and rear, more so the rear actually, the steering numbness is no where near as noticeable. Going to a negative of 2.1 brought the steering feel and turn in back quite a bit, at 1.8 it went numb again. So not everyone will have the same results, some with a lot of rear negative camber might not even notice. Anyone who has played with camber will notice how much firmer the suspension feels as you go more aggressive, set you front dampers to 0.4 and then to 1.5 and the difference is huge, I guess what you are doing as you increase camber is putting the tyre at more of an angle and replicating a firmer sidewall, less flex in the tyres, hence sharper turn in? Edited by Ed.Neumann on Sunday 5th April 10:35

Panamax said: Depending on your wheel sizes you may find the Michelins are in "XL" specification, which is essentially an SUV tyre. XL are tailored for heavy SUV type vehicles and may have a very strong sidewall. I had some MPS4S on a big sports car after removing run-flats and in all honesty the ride was much the same. Having said that, for all I know some "N" tyres might also be XL rated. After all, Mr Porsche does build SUVs. I think this is fake news. Any tyre that has the 102 load rating, including the Conti, will carry the XL marking.

Magic919 said: I think this is fake news. Any tyre that has the 102 load rating, including the Conti, will carry the XL marking. Remembered your password I see.

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