Help: Need 996 Alignment Settings For Track

Any alignment / toe recommendations, given the limitations for setting up a 996, before I buy new tires? I usually drive at Road Atlanta and Barber. I have an '04 996 C2 with H&R Coilovers (NO Camber Plates) with H&R sway bars. I instruct and drive near/at the limits. Have run street and r-compound and always have the same issue. The OUTSIDE EDGES of my tires consistently wear to the cords, especially the rears, well before the rest of the tire sees wear. I have experimented with tire pressures, to no avail. Tires cord in 1.5 to 2 DE weekends, with some street driving too. I am tired of trashing tires prematurely. My mechanic did not keep alignment values and thinks my car has Front: -1.5 camber, Rear: -1.2 camber. He is not sure on toe (which could also be contributing to problem). Thanks.

Other than setting the toe to zero and dialing in as much negative camber as possible, there's little you can do with alignment. (You won't get much more than you have now.) You could over-inflate, but you'll lose grip. Otherwise you're stuck with new car, cheaper tires, or camber plates.

Agreed....Camber is youre enemy over Toe, though excessive toe can wear tires quickly as well but generally you'll see this on the inner edge from straights and street driving. Depending on ride height I"m sure you can get the desired negative camber you want in the rear on the stock arms...it's the front that's more difficult and I've never been a fan or more negative camber in the rear than in the front. GT3 top mounts aren't THAT expensive and might be worth a go...read the numerous "rotating top mount" threads over in the GT3 section to see what I'm talking about. Andy

you're probably maxed out at -1.5 up front. you can dremel out the strut tower mounting holes and get a little more. in back, you should be able to get at least -2.0. unfortunately, the only way you're going to get this dead on is to bring a pyrometer and some tools to the track. you say you're running R compound tires. what kind? just R compound, or are they slicks? and you do NOT want zero toe in back.

on a stock 996 C2 you can only get -1.5 degrees max camber at the front without camber plates..

you can hit the camber slots with a dremel tool, allowing about .8 degrees extra. same concept as camber plates, but without the expense or added ride height. alternatively, you can get some gt3 control arms which allow shimmable length variation.

I can live with the front at -1.5. If I can get -2.0 in the rear do you believe that's enough to help wear the tires more evenly? Is it better to have the two values the same (1.5 & 1.5) or is it okay to have 1/2 degree difference? What should the front and rear toe be set to? BTW, I ran one set of Michelin Sport cups and got less than 1,500miles including two DEs and they were gone. I only run street tires now (at least until I'm beyond this problem). I'm selling the car soon, so I would not be interested in investing anything more than the best alignment possible at this time.

If you are not using your car as a dedicated DE machine, then I suggest you just run DE's with stock settings (or close to it). IMO, there is no street benefit to aggressive settings - which is where the majority of drving time is spent in a non-dedicated DE car. Also, you'll waste money on tires in the long run with whacked out settings. -td

If you are going to sell the car and don't want to waste money on suspension parts I would slot the camber slots a little as suggested by insite. I'd shoot for around -2 in front and -1.6 to -1.8 in back. Not optimal but pretty good for what you want. You want a little toe out in front (1 mm) and a little toe in in back (1-2 mm). Obviously you won't want to run it on the street this way for too long. There is no such thing as a good street/track setup. Jim

I agree on no good street/track compromise. I may go for this. I rarely drive high miles in the car on the street so it isn't important as far as handling or wear. I would never come close on the street to wearing the tires in any harmful way- certainly not before they go on the track as they have in the past. Thanks to everyone for the helpful information.

As a reference point. I have my CAB setup factory settings with the RoWM030 and it is a blast to drive on the track. I tried to do the same on my GT3 and hated the settings but realized they were GREAT for the street. My car has now turned into a track ***** that is 95+% track car now and I am finally getting more agressive with an alignment geared for the track b/c my tires were wearing SUPER FAST on the outer 1/3. As Jim point out, a good track setting would be neutral to slight (1mm) toe out) and 1-2mm Toe in at the rear. Camber in rear doesn't need to be more than about -2.0 and if you can get -2.5 up front you would have a really awesome setup. SUcks on the street but a BLAST on the track. Ask yourself, where to you want to have the most enjoyment in the car at the sacrifice of the other??? I chose the track since I have other cars to drive as a DD. If I did not have that luxury and I DE'd less than say 6-8 times a year I would stick with stock settings.

Thanks LVDell

Pardon my ignorance but what is the sacrifice with track settings on the street? Tramlining? Excessive tire wear (obviously)? Twitchy?

1. Burning through tires a a fast rate 2. Reduced contact patch on the road! Very welcome

[QUOTE=LVDell] Reduced contact patch on the road! Oh but it looks cool

True, but at the cost of tires corded SUPER fast.

Setting aside camber, the toe settings you need to make a track car turn in make a street car pretty twitchy.

Way to sugarcoat that one

How easy is it to simply loosen the struts in the rear and push them as far as they will go to negative in the strut mounting holes and forget having it aligned at the shop, especially since the fronts are at max negative 1.5? The fronts look easy to adjust on your own; are they easy to access and adjust in the rear? Will this change the toe, if so, in what way? Does it change anything else in the geometry of the set up and will be adverse?

Rear's aren't slotted at the top mounts. The rear uses an arm with eccentrick (sp?) bolt to adjust camber.

just remove the "k"

Thanks.

You guys crack me up. all623, the problem with changing camber yourself is that changing camber changes toe. Otherwise your idea is not half bad.

So how fast would a -1.5 camber eat tires when driving street?

Okay, long one here. I had the car realigned (twice). The alignment shop was having difficulty, mainly with setting the rears evenly with camber and toe. These are the specifications- best they could do. How should I expect the car to handle at the track? Any unwanted or undesirable surprises? I have new street tires I will be running? My car is lowered so I presume their alignment machine will read the camber values accurately regardless? Left Front Camber: -1.2 degrees, Right Front Camber: -1.3 degrees Left Rear Camber: -1.7 degrees, Right Rear Camber: -2.0 degrees Left Front Toe: .02 degrees, Right Front Toe: .02 degrees Left Rear Toe: .15 degrees, Right Rear Toe: .39 degrees They commented one issue with chewing tires on the outside edges in the rear was that the toe was originally set at .29 on the left and .43 on the right which both were out of 996 spec. range. The new right rear toe is still a little out of spec (not too far out but they were not capable of setting close to the new left rear value of .15 keeping it within range). What are your thoughts? BTW, I will be driving one three day weekend at Road Atlanta, removing the suspension, putting the stock stuff back on and selling the car, so this is not a long termer. Thanks.

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Back from the dead. My alignment guy only got -0.75 up front on my C2 Anniversary. I'd like to stay within stock SCCA autox class which prevents "slotting", "dremel" work, or camber plates. Any ideas how to get more camber? Does adjusting the caster change the camber in this car? It did in my RX-8. Thanks! Same philosophy in general. So I tried rear camber at -1.0, zero toe front, minimal toe in rear. WOW. Very tail happy on street tires. I'll probably try in the rear -1.5 or so next time even though my car could get -2.25 in the rear. Too bad the front camber is so terrible!

Lots of interesting comments, to which I would like to add a few: - If you're comfortable working on cars, a DIY alignment is really quite simple: http://www.planet-9.com/reviews/show...uct=230&cat=10 and http://www.planet-9.com/reviews/show...uct=232&cat=10 - I have an aggressive alignment as I drive 90%+ on track (-3.0 front and -2.5 rear camber, with neutral toe front and a total rear toe in of slightly less than 0.5 degrees), and for my street tires have them flipped on the rim by my friendly neighborhood mechanic. $10-15 per wheel for remounting / balancing is really cheap insurance and doubles the life of the tires. JP

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You can't adjust caster either without parts that would be illegal for your class. You're pretty well dicked for camber. Can you stretch the rules and run X-73 suspension? It's a dealer installed factory porsche suspension. Sandard spring / shock combo. The ride height change alone would net you a much better camber number.