Binned the Spyder's Cup 2s... gone to PS4S... hooray! - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

I previously did a similar switch on mine. Don't know where you're based but this might be a good time to take it to Center Gravity They're masters of wheel and chassis optimising - and you're almost certainly going to leave happy and reassured that the car is as good as it possibly can be for whatever you tell them to work towards

After suffering the Cup 2s for long enough, I finally had them changed for a set of Michelin PS4Ss. - Immediately noticeable improvement in ride quality - less harsh on coarse surfaces and small sharp-edged bumps (repairs, manhole covers etc) - Steering feel definitely better, with proper self-centreing rather than the dead feeling with the Cup 2s which always seemed to need constant small corrections to maintain a straight line. Alignment was within spec when adjusted about 3 k miles ago. However.....I wonder if they need some time to "scrub in", or perhaps the OPC has failed to balance the wheel/tyre assembly properly. From about 70 upwards (on a private road..) there is a noticeable feeling of slight imbalance, through the steering wheel and through the seat. Looking at the rear wheels, there are an awful lot of balance weights now in place - far more than were there pre-change. You can see that in one of the photos, with the outline of the previous, removed weight being visible in one shot. 55gm on left rear wheel. 35gm on right rear wheel (Not too impressed at the method of removal, tbh, with obvious metal:metal contact.....am I OCD?) So - should I leave it for a few more miles (only done about 40 so far) to see if there is an improvement after scrubbing in, or just ask for a proper re-balance? Edited by Tony B2 on Monday 18th August 14:26 Edited by Tony B2 on Monday 18th August 14:51

My query on the quantity of balance weights is - I wonder if the tyres are from a bad batch, and needed additional balancing?

Find the red and/or yellow dots on the tyre sidewalls (post up a photo if you like). Edited by Orangecurry on Monday 18th August 15:15

Orangecurry said: Find the red and/or yellow dots on the tyre sidewalls (post up a photo if you like). Edited by Orangecurry on Monday 18th August 15:15 Can't see any dots on the sidewalls - not the outer sides anyway. Or would these be on the inner walls?

crystalmethod said: I previously did a similar switch on mine. Don't know where you're based but this might be a good time to take it to Center Gravity They're masters of wheel and chassis optimising - and you're almost certainly going to leave happy and reassured that the car is as good as it possibly can be for whatever you tell them to work towards I have been to CG for some optimising, and they did a good job, but they are a fair trek from me (I am in Hampshire). My OPC did query their set-up, when the car was with them for a service, saying it was outside Porsche spec and would therefore threaten the warranty.... To be fair - the OPC "pre" measurements (only about 800 miles after CG did their thing) did show very different numbers from the CG "after" numbers. So, someone's test equipment is not quite right... I acquiesced and let them set within spec, rather than store an excuse for a warranty rejection later. Edited by Tony B2 on Monday 18th August 15:04 Edited by Tony B2 on Monday 18th August 15:27

crystalmethod said: I previously did a similar switch on mine. Don't know where you're based but this might be a good time to take it to Center Gravity They're masters of wheel and chassis optimising - and you're almost certainly going to leave happy and reassured that the car is as good as it possibly can be for whatever you tell them to work towards CG have a Hunter Road Force machine now which, incidentally, is what I would use next in the OP's case. The wheels are obviously poorly balanced. A rim match (high and low spots) and Road Force is the only way to a) be sure the wheel and tyres are in spec and b) get that new car silky smooth ride. I have 305 PS4Ss on the back on my 997 and after HRF balance (at Litchfield's) one wheel has 10g on it and the other nothing - the first time in over 40 years that I have ever had a fully balanced wheel/tyre with NO weights. And, yes, it is as smooth as silk.

Tony B2 said: ...I am in Hampshire I was going to suggest Micheldever Tyres, as IIRC they were one of the first garages to have some kind of Hunter (certainly proper 4-wheel alignment), waaaaaay back when. They were certainly the go-to in Hampshire for tyres and alignment, but their website suggests they may have dumbed-down since I was last there (probably in the 1990s )

Are MP4S not an 'inside' and an 'outside' type of tyre? I thought all tyres had (at least one of) the dots, and they were on the outer wall (or either if non-directional) as tyres are fitted to the wheel which sits 'that way up' on the machine. This allows the fitter to easily align the yellow dot with the valve stem or red dot with the wheel low point (small dimple in the metal) or the valve stem..... hang on... found a mostly useful article internet said: The Yellow Dot When tyres are made, they are almost never perfectly balanced, and most manufacturers will place a yellow dot on the section of the tyre where there is least weight. When fitting a tyre, you should line up this yellow dot with the valve stem as this is the heaviest point of the wheel. By aligning the lightest spot on the tyre with the heaviest point on the wheel, the tyre/wheel balance is as close to optimal as can be. So, you won’t use as many weights around the wheel to balance out the tyre and wheel. Fewer weights make for a more balanced wheel, which then means a quieter, more comfortable ride, and a longer-lasting tyre. The Red Dot In the same way that tyres are never perfectly balanced from the manufacturer, tyres are never perfectly round either, even when new. They have high and low points which occur where the belts are joined, and these points can cause vibrations when a tyre is rolling. The red dot indicates the tyre’s high point. Most of the time a wheel will also have a dot—either a drilled dot or a sticker to indicate its low point; if you have these marks, you should align the red dot with the mark on the wheel and ignore the yellow dot. By doing this you minimise the vibration caused by the high point of the tyre Red over Yellow If both red and yellow dots are visible on your tyre and you don’t have any dots or marks on your wheel, red takes precedence over yellow and you should align the red dot with the valve stem. Cancelling out the high point takes precedence over the lightest point of the tyre, which can be addressed with wheel weights. Edited by Orangecurry on Monday 18th August 16:06

well done on making the switch, for the road its a no brainer and I'm also a PS4 from cup2 convert! The only time I had that many weights installed on a wheel was where I had a small buckle and they had tried to balance the wheel (unsuccessfully). Got the wheel straightened and all good.

Orangecurry said: I was going to suggest Micheldever Tyres, as IIRC they were one of the first garages to have some kind of Hunter (certainly proper 4-wheel alignment), waaaaaay back when. They were certainly the go-to in Hampshire for tyres and alignment, but their website suggests they may have dumbed-down since I was last there (probably in the 1990s ) I used them when they had a "premium service" (for +£10 per tyre?) with the same fitter working on the car from beginning to end of the process, but this disappeared a few years ago. I stopped using them when I watched the fitter (who knew I was only a few feet away), literally kick one of my wheels off the car, with the wheel hitting the disc, then the arch and then the floor (from about 3ft above the ground). If that is their level of care and professionalism, no thank you!

Orangecurry said: Are MP4S not an 'inside' and an 'outside' type of tyre? I thought all tyres had (at least one of) the dots, and they were on the outer wall (or either if non-directional) as tyres are fitted to the wheel which sits 'that way up' on the machine. This allows the fitter to easily align the yellow dot with the valve stem or red dot with the wheel low point (small dimple in the metal) or the valve stem..... hang on... found a mostly useful article internet said: The Yellow Dot When tyres are made, they are almost never perfectly balanced, and most manufacturers will place a yellow dot on the section of the tyre where there is least weight. When fitting a tyre, you should line up this yellow dot with the valve stem as this is the heaviest point of the wheel. By aligning the lightest spot on the tyre with the heaviest point on the wheel, the tyre/wheel balance is as close to optimal as can be. So, you won’t use as many weights around the wheel to balance out the tyre and wheel. Fewer weights make for a more balanced wheel, which then means a quieter, more comfortable ride, and a longer-lasting tyre. The Red Dot In the same way that tyres are never perfectly balanced from the manufacturer, tyres are never perfectly round either, even when new. They have high and low points which occur where the belts are joined, and these points can cause vibrations when a tyre is rolling. The red dot indicates the tyre’s high point. Most of the time a wheel will also have a dot—either a drilled dot or a sticker to indicate its low point; if you have these marks, you should align the red dot with the mark on the wheel and ignore the yellow dot. By doing this you minimise the vibration caused by the high point of the tyre Red over Yellow If both red and yellow dots are visible on your tyre and you don’t have any dots or marks on your wheel, red takes precedence over yellow and you should align the red dot with the valve stem. Cancelling out the high point takes precedence over the lightest point of the tyre, which can be addressed with wheel weights. Edited by Orangecurry on Monday 18th August 16:06 Really interesting, thank you for sharing. I will have a closer look at the shoulders for drilled dots. And the wheels. If you have any pictures of the drilled variety on the tyre, or equivalent on the wheel, please share

The dimple, mark, or sticker-from-new is ONLY on the wheel, and often not there at all, from my understanding. The tyres have the yellow and/or red dots - all this info combined should be enough to get the best fit and least weights-added. But as suggested above, you may have a slightly bent wheel, and no coloured-dot is going to help with that.

Tony B2 said: Orangecurry said: Are MP4S not an 'inside' and an 'outside' type of tyre? I thought all tyres had (at least one of) the dots, and they were on the outer wall (or either if non-directional) as tyres are fitted to the wheel which sits 'that way up' on the machine. This allows the fitter to easily align the yellow dot with the valve stem or red dot with the wheel low point (small dimple in the metal) or the valve stem..... hang on... found a mostly useful article internet said: The Yellow Dot When tyres are made, they are almost never perfectly balanced, and most manufacturers will place a yellow dot on the section of the tyre where there is least weight. When fitting a tyre, you should line up this yellow dot with the valve stem as this is the heaviest point of the wheel. By aligning the lightest spot on the tyre with the heaviest point on the wheel, the tyre/wheel balance is as close to optimal as can be. So, you won’t use as many weights around the wheel to balance out the tyre and wheel. Fewer weights make for a more balanced wheel, which then means a quieter, more comfortable ride, and a longer-lasting tyre. The Red Dot In the same way that tyres are never perfectly balanced from the manufacturer, tyres are never perfectly round either, even when new. They have high and low points which occur where the belts are joined, and these points can cause vibrations when a tyre is rolling. The red dot indicates the tyre’s high point. Most of the time a wheel will also have a dot—either a drilled dot or a sticker to indicate its low point; if you have these marks, you should align the red dot with the mark on the wheel and ignore the yellow dot. By doing this you minimise the vibration caused by the high point of the tyre Red over Yellow If both red and yellow dots are visible on your tyre and you don’t have any dots or marks on your wheel, red takes precedence over yellow and you should align the red dot with the valve stem. Cancelling out the high point takes precedence over the lightest point of the tyre, which can be addressed with wheel weights. Edited by Orangecurry on Monday 18th August 16:06 Really interesting, thank you for sharing. I will have a closer look at the shoulders for drilled dots. And the wheels. If you have any pictures of the drilled variety on the tyre, or equivalent on the wheel, please share Agreed ... very useful thank you However, the ONLY time that any tyre fitter has fitted the dots adjacent to the valve stem when fitting my new tyres was by a small local tyre fitter who specialised in motorcycle tyres and was fitting to the diminutive wheels of my '73 Mini ... Literally nobody else has ... should they be respectfully asked (told) to ??

ChrisW. said: Literally nobody else has ... should they be respectfully asked (told) to ?? Bonkers isn't it. Either they don't know, or they don't care. The problem with respectfully talking to them is that they could get upset. Not ideal. All that metal and levering next to your soft, painted alloys. The same everywhere - there are two kinds of people; ones that do a job only to pay the bills, and ones that also take pride in their work. Wheel refurbish specialists usually know to do this, especially as it make them look good when the wheels have so few weights on them. They will IME also just fit tyres, especially if you've used them in the past for refurbs.

The op had the best tyres for the car but didn't like them, so binned them off for what the internet says are the best tyres by some margin: the MP4S. But the op can't gel with them, there's something wrong with the internet tyre champion. No worries, get them balanced again; spend ££££ at an alignment shop, and then all will be well. It wasn't necessary with the Cup 2s that they were pleased to get rid of, right? Ok Cup 2's are harsh on some surfaces, but they're the best tyres (summer) for these cars by some margin. The turn-in alone is worth the hassle in my view. But they're not for everyone.

maz8062 said: The op had the best tyres for the car but didn't like them, so binned them off for what the internet says are the best tyres by some margin: the MP4S. But the op can't gel with them, there's something wrong with the internet tyre champion. No worries, get them balanced again; spend ££££ at an alignment shop, and then all will be well. It wasn't necessary with the Cup 2s that they were pleased to get rid of, right? Ok Cup 2's are harsh on some surfaces, but they're the best tyres (summer) for these cars by some margin. The turn-in alone is worth the hassle in my view. But they're not for everyone. For track agree but on road ps4's are simply more fun. I'm not interested in outright grip on the road. The car rides so much better and now reaching the edge of grip whether wet or dry is both predictable and fun. The tyre engineers really do know what they are doing and for the rd....buy the rd tyre.

I ordered one my Spyders new with the sports tyre option ticked which replaced the Cup 2 tyres with PS4. So that tyre is a fully approved OE equipment tyre assuming they are N marked. There is no difference in geometry settings between the two OE tyre specs as far am I am aware. I had my car set up by Matt at Fernsport and it was great on the PS4s. A very slight loss of bite at the front in optimal (warm and dry) conditions compared to Cup 2s however night and day better in all other conditions especially in the wet. It’s a far superior tyre for the car if you’re not a track day bunny, and let’s face it a Spyder is not really ideal for the track anyway. A noticeably better ride on the PS4. As for the balance weights, that is not acceptable for a top end tyre, they aren’t ditchfinders. I would be straight back and ask the tyre fitters nicely to have another go. If it turns out to really need that much to balance the tyre (you can check the wheels without tyres first) then I would be onto Michelin asking for their opinion. Keep us posted.

maz8062 said: The op had the best tyres for the car but didn't like them, so binned them off for what the internet says are the best tyres by some margin: the MP4S. But the op can't gel with them, there's something wrong with the internet tyre champion. No worries, get them balanced again; spend ££££ at an alignment shop, and then all will be well. It wasn't necessary with the Cup 2s that they were pleased to get rid of, right? Ok Cup 2's are harsh on some surfaces, but they're the best tyres (summer) for these cars by some margin. The turn-in alone is worth the hassle in my view. But they're not for everyone. I am not sure I really get the point you are trying to make. After 10k miles of gritting teeth and bearing the awful low speed ride, and the occasional alarming aquaplaning in heavy rain as everyone else overtakes me going 20mph faster, I decided enough was enough. There is next to zero chance I will do any serious track time in the car (and no, don't suggest that I should have got a 4.0 GTS). So I thought, instead of compromising my enjoyment of the car (last time I checked, it was my car) I would go for a more road-biased tyre, one which several other Spyder owners have recommended based on their own experience. The MPS4S is N0 designated, so perhaps Porsche have had a say in its development & usefulness/appropriateness? The GMA T-50 comes on them, too. If it is good enough for a Gordon Murray supercar, then maybe it is a bit better than adequate? After approximately 40 miles, I am certainly *not* unhappy with them, but query whether either (a) some scrubbing-in period is required, or (b) the installation/balancing is not right. I did spend ££££ at CG and experienced some improvement with the Cup2s - probably 75% of the improvement was due to slackening off the ARBs front and rear to the "soft" setting, and 20% getting the front ride height returned to factory spec. But that was then, and this is now. Better ride, better straight line and just off-centre steering feel and response. And if they do, as I strongly suspect, need refitting/rebalancing I will expect the OPC to do it, at their expense.

There’s a thread running on where Porsche have gone wrong over the years in the pursuit for more more, and their approach to selling some of their halo products to “favoured” clients, or those clients that buy lesser variants of the marque to qualify so to speak. This is a case in point. You bought the most track focused version of the Boxster. Not an S, GTS, Spyder, no, you bought a Spyder RS, the track focused iteration of the model line up. But you don’t like it, it is too track focused, you’ll never track it, you want comfort not what the car was designed for. So you change it, dumb it down, make it less GT4, more GTS. You are a personification of what the brand is today and perhaps why it is difficult to buy a GT product, and why the GT products are so expensive - it attracts clients that want the car as a trinket, a Rolex watch, a status symbol. Nothing wrong in that mind, you’ve worked hard and like nice things, but an SRS was not made for comfort, although more comfortable that the 4RS, it was made to be the fastest, track focused that it can be. The CUP 2’s were made to order, the MP4S were optioned on the base Boxster. Your cash, your choice. I’m just jealous.

maz8062 said: There’s a thread running on where Porsche have gone wrong over the years in the pursuit for more more, and their approach to selling some of their halo products to “favoured” clients, or those clients that buy lesser variants of the marque to qualify so to speak. This is a case in point. You bought the most track focused version of the Boxster. Not an S, GTS, Spyder, no, you bought a Spyder RS, the track focused iteration of the model line up. But you don’t like it, it is too track focused, you’ll never track it, you want comfort not what the car was designed for. So you change it, dumb it down, make it less GT4, more GTS. You are a personification of what the brand is today and perhaps why it is difficult to buy a GT product, and why the GT products are so expensive - it attracts clients that want the car as a trinket, a Rolex watch, a status symbol. Nothing wrong in that mind, you’ve worked hard and like nice things, but an SRS was not made for comfort, although more comfortable that the 4RS, it was made to be the fastest, track focused that it can be. The CUP 2’s were made to order, the MP4S were optioned on the base Boxster. Your cash, your choice. I’m just jealous. Oh give it up FFS. I have a Spyder, not a Spyder RS. I will not bother to address the rest of your ridiculous rant.

I'm guessing you aren't asking anybody to agree with you ? The SRS is more a road car than a GT4RS, it has the engine that a GT4 does not and tyres are subjective with the PS4S definitely a better all weather road tyre than the PSCup2 ... ?? I hope it works also for the OP and can't personally see anything to criticise ...

A really useful thread this. I had all four tyres replaced a while back, MPS4S all round. It took them an age to get the new tyres on...literally jumping on the tyre/wheel(?!) They got fitted, balanced and put back on the car, no damage to anything... weeks later I noticed quite the heavy use of weights Reading this, I'm going to be far more focused on who I use and how they get fitted next time.

Tony B2 said: maz8062 said: There’s a thread running on where Porsche have gone wrong over the years in the pursuit for more more, and their approach to selling some of their halo products to “favoured” clients, or those clients that buy lesser variants of the marque to qualify so to speak. This is a case in point. You bought the most track focused version of the Boxster. Not an S, GTS, Spyder, no, you bought a Spyder RS, the track focused iteration of the model line up. But you don’t like it, it is too track focused, you’ll never track it, you want comfort not what the car was designed for. So you change it, dumb it down, make it less GT4, more GTS. You are a personification of what the brand is today and perhaps why it is difficult to buy a GT product, and why the GT products are so expensive - it attracts clients that want the car as a trinket, a Rolex watch, a status symbol. Nothing wrong in that mind, you’ve worked hard and like nice things, but an SRS was not made for comfort, although more comfortable that the 4RS, it was made to be the fastest, track focused that it can be. The CUP 2’s were made to order, the MP4S were optioned on the base Boxster. Your cash, your choice. I’m just jealous. Oh give it up FFS. I have a Spyder, not a Spyder RS. I will not bother to address the rest of your ridiculous rant. Apologies for winding you up mate. As i run Cup 2’s on my 997, the title of this thread triggered me. I find the Cup 2’s to be a fantastic road tyre - hard on poor road surfaces yes, but the grip and turn-in is next level.

maz8062 said: Apologies for winding you up mate. As i run Cup 2’s on my 997, the title of this thread triggered me. I find the Cup 2’s to be a fantastic road tyre - hard on poor road surfaces yes, but the grip and turn-in is next level. I heard recently that Yokohama Ad09 and Ad052 are a lot better, anypne tested these?. My SRS didn´t come with the Cup2 like my prevous GT3RS... came with Dunlops.

maz8062 said: Apologies for winding you up mate. As i run Cup 2’s on my 997, the title of this thread triggered me. I find the Cup 2’s to be a fantastic road tyre - hard on poor road surfaces yes, but the grip and turn-in is next level Caveat: But at an average speed of 17mph on Mr Khan's cycle lane/average speed camera ridden streets, that's not exactly setting the bar overly high.

Slippydiff said: maz8062 said: Apologies for winding you up mate. As i run Cup 2’s on my 997, the title of this thread triggered me. I find the Cup 2’s to be a fantastic road tyre - hard on poor road surfaces yes, but the grip and turn-in is next level Caveat: But at an average speed of 17mph on Mr Khan's cycle lane/average speed camera ridden streets, that's not exactly setting the bar overly high. As I swap my tyres for the winter months, I've had a few different tyres on my 911s over the past couple of years or so, including Pirelli, Bridgestone, Goodyear Eagle, MP4S, etc. I find the 240 tread wear tyres much of a muchness, they are comfortable and give good grip. My Cup 2s are on the car from Spring to autumn, and I just love how the car steers and the confidence that they inspire. They're next level from the others and the braking is much better. My Boxster with 205/50 Pirelli Rosso something doesn't even come close in terms of feel and sharpness. I'm a fan, but not everyone is or has to be. P.S. no digs from me, Slippy - if you'd ever owned a 997, you'd get it.

A follow up on this - it looks like the OPC have agreed to rebalance the wheels. I have said that merely adding more weights is not acceptable, if the tyre orientation on the wheel is not optimum, as it will not solve the problem. I asked Michelin to confirm acceptable limits on quantities of balance weights - they state that anything over 50g is excessive and the tyre should be rotated on the wheel by half a revolution in this case. Before returning to the OPC (next week) I will: - check again but I think 2 of my wheels have >50g and one has 45g, one 35g. For comparison I checked the rear wheels on a new Spyder RS in the showroom. A single 5g weight was present on each wheel. - ask Michelin if they can confirm exactly what markings should be present on the tyre sidewall, and where to find them, in order to identify any measured eccentricity or weight variations at the factory. I am hypersensitive about wheel damage during tyre changes, so I am relying on the OPC to exercise suitable skill when manipulating the tyres on the wheel. They were OK on the first attempt! Oh the stresses of being OCD with my cars....

Tony B2 said: A follow up on this - it looks like the OPC have agreed to rebalance the wheels. I have said that merely adding more weights is not acceptable, if the tyre orientation on the wheel is not optimum, as it will not solve the problem. I asked Michelin to confirm acceptable limits on quantities of balance weights - they state that anything over 50g is excessive and the tyre should be rotated on the wheel by half a revolution in this case. Before returning to the OPC (next week) I will: - check again but I think 2 of my wheels have >50g and one has 45g, one 35g. For comparison I checked the rear wheels on a new Spyder RS in the showroom. A single 5g weight was present on each wheel. - ask Michelin if they can confirm exactly what markings should be present on the tyre sidewall, and where to find them, in order to identify any measured eccentricity or weight variations at the factory. I am hypersensitive about wheel damage during tyre changes, so I am relying on the OPC to exercise suitable skill when manipulating the tyres on the wheel. They were OK on the first attempt! Oh the stresses of being OCD with my cars.... Given they couldn't do it properly first time my OCD would have meant going for a Road Force rim match and balance and swallowing the cost. But I hope the OPC gets it right for you this time.

Discombobulate said: Tony B2 said: A follow up on this - it looks like the OPC have agreed to rebalance the wheels. I have said that merely adding more weights is not acceptable, if the tyre orientation on the wheel is not optimum, as it will not solve the problem. I asked Michelin to confirm acceptable limits on quantities of balance weights - they state that anything over 50g is excessive and the tyre should be rotated on the wheel by half a revolution in this case. Before returning to the OPC (next week) I will: - check again but I think 2 of my wheels have >50g and one has 45g, one 35g. For comparison I checked the rear wheels on a new Spyder RS in the showroom. A single 5g weight was present on each wheel. - ask Michelin if they can confirm exactly what markings should be present on the tyre sidewall, and where to find them, in order to identify any measured eccentricity or weight variations at the factory. I am hypersensitive about wheel damage during tyre changes, so I am relying on the OPC to exercise suitable skill when manipulating the tyres on the wheel. They were OK on the first attempt! Oh the stresses of being OCD with my cars.... Given they couldn't do it properly first time my OCD would have meant going for a Road Force rim match and balance and swallowing the cost. But I hope the OPC gets it right for you this time. Tell me more - who can do the Road Force thing?

Tony B2 said: Tell me more - who can do the Road Force thing? See my reply to your original post on the first page

Discombobulate said: Tony B2 said: Tell me more - who can do the Road Force thing? See my reply to your original post on the first page Ooops...yes.... My excuse is...it was a long time ago! I need someone a bit closer than CG, which is a full day roundtrip.

Tony B2 said: Ooops...yes.... My excuse is...it was a long time ago! I need someone a bit closer than CG, which is a full day roundtrip. It was 4 days ago Some OPCs now have the Hunter Elite machine. As do Bentley and Ferrari dealers. Worth checking. In good hands the end result is like a new car (most top end manufacturers now use them on assembly lines).

Well, who could not want to spend hours viewing Hunter training/promo material? https://www.youtube.com/@HunterLearningChannel Lots of really interesting stuff here (for OCD people, anyway). If my OPC does have their equipment, they have little excuse for not getting it right. I guess they must have failed to hit the "Optimise" button. It was late on a Friday afternoon, to be fair... And re-orienting the tyre on the wheel looks much easier - and less rim threatening - than I thought it would.

My OPC were very proud to show off their 'drive-through' alignment kit on a club visit, where you drive over some plates and between a laser thing and it shows up some basic alignment to investigate further. I spoke to a tech after he had left there to join an indy, and he told me the whole thing hadn't been calibrated properly and was a waste of time. Not saying they are all like that, and that the proper alignment kit isn't setup correctly, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. I'd definitely be looking elsewhere for an alignment than an OPC

Tony B2 said: Well, who could not want to spend hours viewing Hunter training/promo material? https://www.youtube.com/@HunterLearningChannel Lots of really interesting stuff here (for OCD people, anyway). If my OPC does have their equipment, they have little excuse for not getting it right. I guess they must have failed to hit the "Optimise" button. It was late on a Friday afternoon, to be fair... And re-orienting the tyre on the wheel looks much easier - and less rim threatening - than I thought it would. Sadly even the best kit is only as good as the operator....

Discombobulate said: Tony B2 said: Ooops...yes.... My excuse is...it was a long time ago! I need someone a bit closer than CG, which is a full day roundtrip. It was 4 days ago Some OPCs now have the Hunter Elite machine. As do Bentley and Ferrari dealers. Worth checking. In good hands the end result is like a new car (most top end manufacturers now use them on assembly lines). Big manufacturers don’t assemble wheels and tyres themselves… they use balancing machines with road force measurement in their chassis development workshops because they are handy diagnostic and optimisation tools. Good info on this thread. If I could add a point - it’s not smart to leave the weight of the car (parked) on a wheel for even 15 minutes before you make a road force measurement. The best results are after driving for half an hour followed by going straight up on a lift. Some tyres take a measurable non permanent set in 10 minutes, this will screw up any optimisation the machine is capable of.

Kawasicki said: Discombobulate said: Tony B2 said: Ooops...yes.... My excuse is...it was a long time ago! I need someone a bit closer than CG, which is a full day roundtrip. It was 4 days ago Some OPCs now have the Hunter Elite machine. As do Bentley and Ferrari dealers. Worth checking. In good hands the end result is like a new car (most top end manufacturers now use them on assembly lines). Big manufacturers don’t assemble wheels and tyres themselves… they use balancing machines with road force measurement in their chassis development workshops because they are handy diagnostic and optimisation tools. Good info on this thread. If I could add a point - it’s not smart to leave the weight of the car (parked) on a wheel for even 15 minutes before you make a road force measurement. The best results are after driving for half an hour followed by going straight up on a lift. Some tyres take a measurable non permanent set in 10 minutes, this will screw up any optimisation the machine is capable of. Point taken! My service appointment is 1:00pm and I will do my best to arrive close to that time, but unfortunately that part is out of my hands once I have checked in. I am going to have a chat with the service manager next week, to ascertain what equipment they use, and make my expectations clear. So far my only face to face dealings have been with one of the very charming Service Dollies...

I have had a reply from my OPC, in answer to my question about the balancing equipment that they use. It is HPA-Faip. Having checked into their capability it appears to be rather less sophisticated than Hunter's and it does not look as if their equipment can rotate the tyre on the wheel (unlike the Hunter kit) which would mean that they have to de-mount/re-mount the tyre on the wheel to optimise its position. So, risking rim damage, which I hate! I think I will go to the nearest Hunter-equipped shop....

Discombobulate said: Sadly even the best kit is only as good as the operator.... Also known as "a fool with a tool is still a fool"

My OPC has re-balanced all 4 wheels, but I have not yet had the chance to take the car on a suitable stretch of (private...) road to determine whether it has made any difference between 70 and 80, which is where it became apparent before. Looking at the new balance set up, it would appear that they have only added 5 - 15g of weights, away from the existing 35 - 55g weights, so clearly no re-orientation of tyre on rim has occurred. Michelin had confirmed that anything over 50g is not acceptable, so I will (when I have time) probably be making a trip to Towcester to get this sorted properly. Michelin also stated that their tyres no longer have any "dimples" or other markings to indicate the presence of high spots or any other discontinuities, because their quality standards have made them superfluous. It would be nice if Hunter Engineering responded to my request for info on UK-based facilities using their equipment.

Tony B2 said: Looking at the new balance set up, it would appear that they have only added 5 - 15g of weights, away from the existing 35 - 55g weights, so clearly no re-orientation of tyre on rim has occurred. So to be clear - the OPC has simply added more weights? Tony B2 said: Michelin also stated that their tyres no longer have any "dimples" or other markings to indicate the presence of high spots or any other discontinuities, because their quality standards have made them superfluous. Really? No red or yellow dots? Impressive if Michelin manufacturing is now that good. If that is the case, are they suggesting your wheels are slightly distorted?

Orangecurry said: Tony B2 said: Looking at the new balance set up, it would appear that they have only added 5 - 15g of weights, away from the existing 35 - 55g weights, so clearly no re-orientation of tyre on rim has occurred. So to be clear - the OPC has simply added more weights? Tony B2 said: Michelin also stated that their tyres no longer have any "dimples" or other markings to indicate the presence of high spots or any other discontinuities, because their quality standards have made them superfluous. Really? No red or yellow dots? Impressive if Michelin manufacturing is now that good. If that is the case, are they suggesting your wheels are slightly distorted? As far as I can see, yes, they have simply added more weights. I haven't had time to go around each of the wheels checking to confirm exactly, but certainly the 2 wheels with most weights now have extra weights, separated circumferentially from the weights that were applied with the new tyres. I doubt that the now (55+x)g wheel is distorted because when the PS Cup2s were on, it had no more than 15g in one position. I can still see the location/amount of weights that were in place with the old tyres, but which have now been removed. So, all in all, it could be a bit of a lash up. I still need to check whether the vibration at 70+ has gone. Even if each wheel and tyre are respectively perfect, it would still be necessary to counter-balance the tyre valve/pressure sensor/battery, I guess. Edited by Tony B2 on Sunday 31st August 21:32

Tony B2 said: I doubt that the now (55+x)g wheel is distorted because when the PS Cup2s were on, it had no more than 15g in one position. I can still see the location/amount of weights that were in place with the old tyres, but which have now been removed. So, all in all, it could be a bit of a lash up. Sheesh. Have you named (shamed) the OPC, or would Pistonheads-control throw their toys out of the pram? I guess if now the wheels are 'balanced' (no vibrations at any speed) you could run with it for an easy life. But if would irk me somewhat. I'd probably be making a loud nuisance of myself at the OPC in front of as many punters as I could, but then I don't need a relationship with a main dealer as my car was never in warranty.

I am reluctant to Name and Shame, because they do seem to be trying their best (front of house) but are possibly being let down by competence (in the kitchen). Since I have had the car, they have generally been very helpful, and on several occasions have not charged me for things that they have done. I had not bought the car from them btw. In this respect they are a breath of fresh air compared with my local BMW dealership who have pretty much lost me now, due to their lack of responsiveness on warranty claims.

An update: At my request the OPC had another go at re-balancing, after I demonstrated the vibration that was still occurring 68+ mph. The tech who came out with me for the demo said that it made sense to remove all weights and start again, rather than adding any more. At last - sense! Following this (3rd) attempt the result is probably good enough now, and unlikely to get any better unless I go somewhere with the full Hunter RoadForce set up. So, credit where credit is due - the OPC did their best to achieve customer satisfaction. Now this annoyance is out of the way I can definitely say that the switch from the Cup 2s to the PS4Ss is a major improvement, in ride comfort and reduction in harshness.