Setting up a 996 for my 17 year old for track duty

3/98 build, 6 speed, currently mint condition, lol. Ok so the white car is going to be going through some changes. I drive Sammy pretty much everyday so this makes perfect sense for a intro into 911 / track / my son. So far I have the following installed: GT3 Buckets The car is stock otherwise and I have the following parts ready for install: Skips AOS Ohlins R/T coilovers X51 oil pan Rennline Shifter New Shifter Cables Need a roll bar so I can add some harnesses. I dont want to use the factory tequipment bar, I have that in Sammy. Any recommendations on a cool X brace style roll bar that bolts in? GMG Roll bar? Any other "needed" mod recommendations for a beginner for safety of him and the car? So just remember this is a kid so he won't be pulling major G forces just yet. Oh and please refrain from the usual....you're letting your 17 year old skid pad and autocross your 911? Or this one....geez, nothing says entitlement like a 17 year old kid using a 911. Buy a Miata or another one of my favorites: 911 isn't the easiest to learn on, get a Miata

definitely get a miata.

OP - Pagid RS 29 yellow front/RS 14 black rear or PFC 08s historic faves. 996 pads are ridiculously easy to change. Slotted rotors. BK makes a basic harness bar. Titan sells a reasonably priced full X bar.

Quotes source post: 18625496

OP has plenty of �spares�.

Couple things to consider if you haven't already. 1. make sure the UAOS is the track version so you have the drainback and can run 1 qt extra oil. 2. Along with X51, make sure to run the 2 qt deep sump. Extra oil will help with oil pressure instability, starvation and cooling. 3. Agree with Hatchet on Pagid Yellows and slotted rotors. 4. Alot of good roll bar options available. It does stiffen up the chassis and helps. When the kids outgrew the back seat, I went with a Heigo roll cage with removable center bars so I could fit my golf clubs in the back. I went thru FVD and had them walk me thru the options available and settled on Heigo. It's been great. Nice to know I can use the back if I want to. But never did. 5. Tires are critical, what are you thinking about running?

Quotes source post: 18625467

What does "skid pad" mean on the C2 in your sig?

I think there�s a Teq cage for sale in the classifieds.

I use a DAS roll bar in my car. its pretty easy to install. ill second the pagid yellow or similar pads. Also fresh castrol srf or endless 650 brake fluid.

Brake pads, 997 GT3 front brake ducts, brake fluid, change the gearbox fluid regularly, as much negative camber as you can get up front (don't be shy about this, -3.5* is a good start), oil temperature gauge, spare engine.

Since I've never met your son,, this is painting with a wide brush.... As someone who spent a ton of years supporting rental race cars for new drivers.. IMHO a Porsche is a horrible teaching car. Same as a Mustang or a Corvette or any V8 car really. They don't teach driving skills, they teach throttle skills unfortunately.. Not that you cant learn in a porsche but you don't learn the finesse of being fast. Miata is a way way better learning car. It is tolerant of small errors, or at least goes off track way slower.. And they are way more repairable than a 911. If you shop around you can find a basic spec Miata thats may not be a lead car but it gives the training and they can be had for less than tires and fuel for a 911 if you do a lot of track days a year. It's less to run cost wise for a whole summer than a set of tires on the Porsche. A early Rx7 is another great teaching car but they are disappearing these days. Any rear wheel drive car with < 150 HP is a good starter car. Everyone should start on a momentum car and work up to a power car, it teaches better skills and makes you THINK.. Spec racer ford rentals are super common and are another car that teaches track awareness and car control and are extremely safe.. If there are racing aspirations,, Best option,, start on dirt and run a midget or a spec sprint car for a season, then go pavement. Learning to radically slide a car under control is a priceless skill and dirt teaches it so much faster than pavement. .

Its like everyone on rennlist has stock in mazda . Yes its cheaper, slower and easier to repair but its not the car he has. I see 16 fo 18 yr/olds driving their parents caymans and 911s all the time at pca's and they do fine. Plus its not like r cars r rocket ships... a mk1 is around 260 rhp and a mk2 is maybe 290 rhp st 3.1k lbs. 0.0839 hp/lb (3.4l) An nc miata is around 2400lbs and probably 150 rhp. 0.0625 hp/lb 2015 mustang 5.0l is 3700lbs and 380rhp. 0.103 hp/lb

Since you say you are concerned with your son's safety, please consider whether the car will be driven on public roads in normal traffic. Unless it's a dedicated track car, be careful about mixing in race safety systems (rigid bucket, 5- point harness, roll cage,etc) with public road safety systems (3-point belts, collapsible seat, airbags). The following linked article is a real eye opener as to the potential dangers of doing that. Other than that, I couldn't think of a better father-son bonding experience! http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...-safety-facts/

Another vote for Miata. Not a stock owner, but a do track an NB and daily an NC1. I love my 911s, but the Miata is a far better learning tool, and consumables are insanely cheap.

Yeah, it's a progression with safety equipment, especially in how you integrate the safety equipment with the standard street-car safety mechanisms. I still use my seat belts on the street as well as still have my airbags even though I have GT3 seats, a roll cage in the back and 6-point harness. But this seems to be standard operating procedure for most street/track guys. Nothing to worry about on the street with negating any safety functionality. But you do take on "street-safety-risk" as you replace OEM parts. Probably the biggest risk you run is removing your oem steering wheel which includes an airbag and replacing it with an aftermarket one that doesn't have one. Same can be said for gutting your interior and removing the side airbags. While some will do this, most don't do it. Another risk is replacing your roof, frunk lid and engine lid with carbon fiber. Carbon fiber is a very fast burning material. You get into an accident and they catch fire, you will be roasted very quickly within minutes if you are delayed in some way getting out of your car. If you do replace these parts with carbon fiber parts, it would be advised to get the best damn fire extinguishing system you can that will go off if you can't push the button. Happened to a buddy of mine in a street accident and his 911 was a burnt skeleton within a few min. This changed my mind on adding a carbon fiber roof, trunk and lid. Lastly, a fixed seat and a full cage has its own set of issues that protect you on the track but can be a nightmare on the street. With all this being said, you can set your car up for joint street and track safety and should. Just like everyone should try tracking your car a few times. You will develop great appreciation for the art of driving and most importantly, the beauty of a 996 on the track. IMHO, tracking your 996 is number one on the list of the 8 wonders of the world. I think it is pretty cool that Mike is doing this with his son.

If I were in your shoes, this is what I would do - I would also, at least for my boy, have this be a track only car. For a track car, it will be mild (still can hurt or kill though) - for a road car, it would be too much with too much temptation. DTC60 pads Sebro slotted rotors SRF Fluid GT3 Master GT3 Barke ducts 240 TW Tire Bucket seat W/Harness, HANS Roll bar Aim data system with steering position sensor, brake pressure, TPS, oil pressure, oil temp TPMS Sensors Comm system Full fire system (I would have one activation switch in reach of driver and one in reach of me passenger with a 3rd on the cowl) Master kill switch (I would have one activation switch in reach of driver and one in reach of me passenger with a 3rd on the cowl) I would gut the car, if its a track car, it does not need an interior and all the stuff is just more stuff to burn. Get everything out that can distract from the process of driving, keep only what's needed to drive the car. If there was ANY difficulty getting out of the car quickly with the stock steering wheel in, I would put a removable in. I would get him used to maintaining and checking over the car. After each event a nut and bolt check, flush the fluid out of the calipers and replace whole system with with fresh every 8-10HRS, engine and gearbox service. Putting Ohlins in right off rip is dumb IMO, sell them and you can afford a good chunk of my list with the money. I would run the stock suspension for a while and have him focus on how the weight transition of the car directly affects how the car responds to driver input, it will be easier to feel with a softer spring. The 240 TW tire will give up the ghost pretty fast if the inputs are not appropriate and hopefully limit the speed of consequences for bad decision somewhat. I think the key thing if you really want him to learn, not to mention get the most out of your investment if you're funding this whole shindig is putting a data system in the car that will allow him, you and coaches to analyze his progress via review of inputs and not just lap times. This also allows time at the track to be spent in a more finely focussed way because the data that you have reviewed from the comfort of your couch has told you what you need to work on when you're racking up expensive track time.

Quotes source post: 18625615

My son needs to walk before he can run. He will be learning car control on the skid pad / autocross track for a couple of years before setting foot on the road course.

Quotes source post: 18625836

Yes thank you. I will never street a car with a roll cage. I'm only installing a roll bar. I could even get away with just a harness bar for the time being. I only need him secured in the bucket seat so he can feel what the car is doing under him. As we all know we drive with our *** and foot.

Quotes source post: 18625850

I probably should have changed the title. For the first 2 years this will only be a skid pad / autocross car. And frankly now that I've washed it again....it's so damn clean. Maybe I should just get a miata, lol I also have a E36 M3 that could fit the bill......but but but...I Really wanted him to learn how to drive in a 911. Man this car is just SOOOOO CLEAN !!!!!!!! I'm gonna have to get over that and realize it's only skid pad and autocross. I tried to edit the title and it wouldn't let me. I might PPF the entire car to protect it.

Quotes source post: 18625675

Spare engine!! lol. No, Porsche engines are robust, haha. Maybe this is my secret plan to HAVE to install a 4.0 flat six after this one "all of a sudden" goes kaboom

Quotes source post: 18625953

Yes for sure! This would be my goal if after the first 2 years of skid pad and autocross we want to take it a step further. I would LOVE to have a stripped out LIGHTWEIGHT 911, beautifully caged, 996 with some sort of mild livery / color. DREAMING!!!! Who knows how long I'll keep the 992 GT3 RS I'm sure it will be fun but something about these old cars on the track. At the moment with GT3 bucket seats and Hollow Turbo Twists, I'm probably hovering around 2925 lbs?

Quotes source post: 18625497

I'm likely going to be doing this harness bar, thank you. Could I use the Cabroliet bar? It looks so much nicer of a design / look.

I used the brey Krause harness bar for a couple of years before the roll bar. Easy to install and take out.

Quotes source post: 18626080

Did you have the version that connects to the rear struts or did you get the convertible version? I like the convertible version better. You don't still have yours do you? They are pretty expensive I would like to find a used one if possible. Also don't love the crinkle black finish Not finished enough for me

Quotes source post: 18626018

Different mount points, so check with BK.

Quotes source post: 18626086

Yes, a bracket connects to the rear struts and stays in the car. All the other pieces are removable so you can use the back seats. I sold mine about a year or two ago. They aren't cheap but they are worth it. A 5/6 pt harness is light years ahead of seat belts in holding the driver in the seats. Plus you can use a hans.

If your kid is just going to do autocrosses and skid pad work, skip all the mods and buy him a nice, lightweight helmet with good visibility and an intercom system. Less stress on his neck and it'll be easier for the instructor to communicate effectively. Being strapped down in a race seat and a harnesses will make it too easy to overdrive the car because you don't have to balance yourself as much. Setup milestones for his driving development and reward him with mods as his skills increase. When my daughter turned 16, I was doing a lot of track and autocross instruction. I had her autocross in her 2002 BMW 330ci sport package with Michelin Pilot Super Sports. It was plenty of car for her to learn to drive in.

Quotes source post: 18629354

Thanks for that. Yeah that BMW is a good one. Did you daughter stick with motorsport fun? He has been with me countless times around the track in both my old cup car and street car. Along with tons of other instructors. Has plenty of passenger experience. First time in the hot seat for him We don't have harnesses yet so just the GT3 buckets. 3 points are just fine for a while anyway.

Quotes source post: 18629746

She's 21 now and unfortunately did not stick with it. I guess that means more track fun for me. It's probably my fault since I stopped autocrossing to focus more on my road course skills. Occastionally, she'll still come with me to the track and helps with the car. She enjoys the ride alongs but hasn't had much interest in getting on a real race track behind the wheel. I also have a well sorted, track prepped E36 M3 that she's started taking interest in so we'll see.

If you REALLY want him to learn buy him a GO Kart. and get him in a series.. I've done many types and honestly the lightweight easy go kart racing was way more bang for the buck than road racing cars. I started in my 20's,, if I could go back I'd have bought a SRF.. ALL driver and prep..

A little autocross in a 996 never hurt anybody!

Quotes source post: 18630278

Great to learn racing and control but definately don�t have the TIME for this. Talk about a commitment. Club sports or a series of any kind, those days are over. I�ll be lucky if we get 4 hours of weekend time for some skidpad fun once a month. In between these events He certainly can drive the car on the street also.

In my area up by Portland Oregon we have a local track with a wed night "club" series running on 4 stroke Honda karts, They do about 70 on the main straight there.. Maybe someone in your local are has similar.. Its amazing fun and he could go on his own. But warning racing "just once" isn't much different than trying crack "just once" LOL My daughters were both learning to drive,, I took them to a "play day" there and by the end of the day they actually had some car control skills before that they were scary....

Would you be interested in adopting a 54 year old?

Quotes source post: 18633943

Did the same with my son before he got his permit. Put him thru the local indoor karting training. He learned quite a bit. Unfortunately my daughter had no interest. Then I put them both thru the PCA autocross exercises multiple times at a local parking lot using the orange cones. The braking exercise from high speeds was an eye opener to them on how strong the brakes really are as well as an understanding of what ABS feels like so it doesn't spook them when they really need to use the brakes.

I was fighting the complete lack of muscle memory ,, they had never driven anything really. I don't remember how old I was but I was driving the pickup for my dad and uncle in the hay field with a stick for the throttle standing in the driver seat.. Mostly just idling up and down the field..

I am 57 and grew up with lots of places to ride dirt bikes and go carts as a kid. Same can be said for driving cars before permits. Different world today. The indoor carting facilities that have sprung up have created an opportunity to get our kids acclimated to motorized vehicles. Heck my buddies and I will go out to these facilities in late winter and rip it up a bit to get mentally in the groove for the upcoming track season.