991.1 GT3 Engine codes - on topic - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Well after lots of searching on here and other forums i cant seem to find too much definitive info on what exactly all the different engine codes mean, the differences and whether buying a E or F series car means i must be mad and like being left with a worthless pup should i ever wish to sell it (post warranty at least).. most of the discussions on here seem to turn into unrelated 996/997 engine failure 'debate' Context is I'm currently looking at a E01 series engined car, still under Porsche warranty and extendable for another 3 years. I'm told from by Porsche this was a replacement engine in 2015. From what i've read, there is no way this car should still have that engine or be operable with it, but it is and has been in use for 10 years, reasonable miles and i assume put to good use in that time without blowing up. After much research the below sets out my understanding which i now assume is correct but if anyone knows for sure please pipe up: E0: "original" engines that were installed at the factory and then replaced in the course of the connecting rod story. There should no longer be a 991.1 in the world that drives around with it. E1: Exchange engine factory action for the 2013/2014 cars. Common problem: cam followers causing failure. F: 2015 models already has some improvements, still fail. G: Ranging .1 to .6. G6XXXX, is essentially the 991.1 GT3 RS engine with DLC coated camshaft, DLC coated cam followers, new oil gallery, new software for oil supply/pressure, oil filter like the 991.1 GT3 RS. G6 seems to be the final incarnation and the best version. Does anyone know the dates of all the above different versions? And if an E/F/earlier G hasn't let go by now then should i be inclined to view it as 50/50 will/wont? takes your chances i suppose Any better knowledge or info appreciated to make a better informed decision

Thanks for laying this out (so far) ... I haven't seen this information anywhere else though I've often seen it discussed. There was a step change to the 991.2 engines with solid valve lifters in place of the earlier hydraulic arrangement ... I will post a summary of the engine modifications of the 991.2 GT3RS over the 991.1GT3RS ... Edited by ChrisW. on Wednesday 12th March 14:28

ChrisW. said: Thanks for laying this out (so far) ... I haven't seen this information anywhere else though I've often seen it discussed. There was a step change to the 991.2 engines with solid valve lifters in place of the earlier hydraulic arrangement ... I will post a summary of the engine modifications of the 991.2 GT3RS over the 991.1GT3RS ... Edited by ChrisW. on Wednesday 12th March 14:28 His question was about the 991.1 engine. Unless you are suggesting that the G6 engine contains the changes made for the 991.2 which I cannot see being the case as that is a completely different engine.

Jaysagood said: Well after lots of searching on here and other forums i cant seem to find too much definitive info on what exactly all the different engine codes mean, the differences and whether buying a E or F series car means i must be mad and like being left with a worthless pup should i ever wish to sell it (post warranty at least).. most of the discussions on here seem to turn into unrelated 996/997 engine failure 'debate' Context is I'm currently looking at a E01 series engined car, still under Porsche warranty and extendable for another 3 years. I'm told from by Porsche this was a replacement engine in 2015. From what i've read, there is no way this car should still have that engine or be operable with it, but it is and has been in use for 10 years, reasonable miles and i assume put to good use in that time without blowing up. After much research the below sets out my understanding which i now assume is correct but if anyone knows for sure please pipe up: E0: "original" engines that were installed at the factory and then replaced in the course of the connecting rod story. There should no longer be a 991.1 in the world that drives around with it. E1: Exchange engine factory action for the 2013/2014 cars. Common problem: cam followers causing failure. F: 2015 models already has some improvements, still fail. G: Ranging .1 to .6. G6XXXX, is essentially the 991.1 GT3 RS engine with DLC coated camshaft, DLC coated cam followers, new oil gallery, new software for oil supply/pressure, oil filter like the 991.1 GT3 RS. G6 seems to be the final incarnation and the best version. Does anyone know the dates of all the above different versions? And if an E/F/earlier G hasn't let go by now then should i be inclined to view it as 50/50 will/wont? takes your chances i suppose Any better knowledge or info appreciated to make a better informed decision I agree - I cannot see how an E0 engine can be a replacement engine in 2015. The last year of production of the 991.1 engine was in 2015 and that was a G series. Personally I would not touch it. It is a 50/50 and the problem you have is everyone who has a 2013 GT3 (which would be the year of the your car based on the 2028 expiration of the warranty) will be looking to sell in 2027, when there is only 1 year left on the warranty, as after that it will be squeaky bum time owning one outside of the warranty.

Complete oiling system was revised for 991.2 and beyond because oiling is still a weakness even with 991.1 G6.

Although unsubstantiated I believe there are a few UK 991.1 GT3s still retaining the original fit E series engine including mine which received the upgrade engine by production stop at the factory being built May 2014 and I took delivery October 2014 selling the car Summer 2015 replacing it with a new GT4 and new Spyder. Bear in mind there are only 332 UK cars registered new and most received initial and any subsequent engine swaps at OPCs. Mine was white reg DE64 MJX.

My experience with having a 991.1 and going through the engine replacement under the 10 year extended warranty was that it is quite hard to get the engine to go into limp mode once the follower / cam wear is enough to activate the limp mode. I bought a car with an F series engine and proceeded to drive on trackdays at the upper end of the rev range, on the third event (Anglesey) it activated. After letting it cool and re-starting it drove home fine. Once the car was with the dealer they did the usual change plugs 'fixed sir'... Changed coils 'fixed now for definite, sir'... Each time I was able to get it into limp mode within a couple of miles of collecting the car, but only by brutally holding the engine on the limiter in second. If you just revved to the limit and changed it was fine. (which is what the dealer was doing on the test drive each time). The point is I suspect that there are a lot of engines out there with cam follower wear, but unless you're an idiot or being slightly abusive on track nothing happens. When my engine was eventually stripped and then replaced there was easily visible scoring on all the cam lobes. There's another thread on here with a guy with a 991.1 RS awaiting a replacement engine since October 2024, maybe Porsche have now run out of crate G6 engines? Mine was in stock at Porsche GB and arrived the next day once authorised. That was Dec 2022. Incidentally I read somewhere that the McLaren engine can also suffer from cam wear, I'll treat this one with a bit more respect as the warranty is never going to be as robust as Porsche. The best source of information I found for the .1 engine issues is the long thread on Rennlist, really interesting how the Americans got Porsche to offer the 10 year replacement engine warranty. This is of course just my experience with one car, I have no data to back up any of the above guessing! Loved the car both with the initial and replacement engine, but only for track days.

FrancisA said: ChrisW. said: Thanks for laying this out (so far) ... I haven't seen this information anywhere else though I've often seen it discussed. There was a step change to the 991.2 engines with solid valve lifters in place of the earlier hydraulic arrangement ... I will post a summary of the engine modifications of the 991.2 GT3RS over the 991.1GT3RS ... Edited by ChrisW. on Wednesday 12th March 14:28 His question was about the 991.1 engine. Unless you are suggesting that the G6 engine contains the changes made for the 991.2 which I cannot see being the case as that is a completely different engine. And this is the point for my attaching the 991.2 upgrades to a car that I own ... the G6 engine wasn't the finished article ... though the 991.2 may also not be. Maybe I should have explained this ?

paddy1970 said: MA1.75 (E Series) 2013–2014 MA1.75 (F Series) 2015 MA1.76 (G Series) 2015–2016 If an E1, F, or early G-series engine is still running after nearly a decade without failure, it is reasonable to assume it has either already proven itself reliable or has been repaired or modified. However, the risk is not completely eliminated....If you are risk-averse, look for a G6 engine. You can watch this vid: https://youtu.be/STIQJ8EQY40 A good watch ... thank you.

MA1.75 (E Series) 2013–2014 MA1.75 (F Series) 2015 MA1.76 (G Series) 2015–2016 If an E1, F, or early G-series engine is still running after nearly a decade without failure, it is reasonable to assume it has either already proven itself reliable or has been repaired or modified. However, the risk is not completely eliminated....If you are risk-averse, look for a G6 engine. You can watch this vid:

Thanks everyone and Paddy for the dates. This particular car was registered December 2013 and Porsche told me earlier engine was replaced in 2015, current engine code apparently E01407. Which matches the V5, which was last issued 2022. On this basis I'm wondering whether they are just pulling the engine number this off their system rather than actually checking the actual engine in the car? As this would mean they put an E series in during 2015 when it should have been a F or G?

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-gt2rs-an... 991.1 gt3 peeps may find this interesting

[quote=Jaysagood]Thanks everyone and Paddy for the dates. This particular car was registered December 2013 and Porsche told me earlier engine was replaced in 2015, current engine code apparently E01407. Which matches the V5, which was last issued 2022. On this basis I'm wondering whether they are just pulling the engine number this off their system rather than actually checking the actual engine in the car? As this would mean they put an E series in during 2015 when it should have been a F or G? You may well be correct with this theory. Worth checking

Jaysagood said: Thanks everyone and Paddy for the dates. This particular car was registered December 2013 and Porsche told me earlier engine was replaced in 2015, current engine code apparently E01407. Which matches the V5, which was last issued 2022. On this basis I'm wondering whether they are just pulling the engine number this off their system rather than actually checking the actual engine in the car? As this would mean they put an E series in during 2015 when it should have been a F or G? You might be onto something there with the PSCC system updates for the new engine, although it's not what you would expect from Porsche. (or maybe it is). Still, something a bit odd with the dates - a Dec '13 would have been a very early MY14 car and subject to the first Stop Drive recall, which IIRC, were fitted ~q2, 2014. So it's strange that the engine was replaced only in 2015. Another possibility is that the engine could have been replaced twice - once as part of the early MY14 recall and again e.g. due to finger follower failure on the replacement E1 engine. It's all speculation of course. A technician to read the engine number, and the OPC tracing back to see if it was / wasn't the only engine replacement might complete the picture. The folks on RL started to populate a spreadsheet with the engine status of the 991.1 GT3 / RS which may give you some idea of the statistics of engine failure for the various engine updates. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1k_0jjgwrsg...

Jaysagood said: And if an E/F/earlier G hasn't let go by now then should i be inclined to view it as 50/50 will/wont? takes your chances i suppose From what I've read, it is 100% probability that the cam followers will wear if the engine is used at the top of its rev range. It's not a case of 50/50 just because a failure hasn't happened yet. I'm not sure who will want to touch these cars beyond 2027. To me it sounds like the only realistic long term solution will be to have a lower rev limit mapped in to say 8000rpm to avoid the inevitable valvetrain wear.

That's interesting, so a third of the failures on that list are 991.1 GT3RS (the latest engine) .... and less than a third of them are moderately or heavily tracked ... the rest have little or no track use, though some are quite high mileage. With a little time this could be broken down to give more detail ... 86 cars listed since October '24. NOTE !! Looking again what is this a list of ? None of the GT3RS engines have been replaced ... only cars with engines replaced have a reason for this, so all the others may still be going strong ?? Edited by ChrisW. on Thursday 13th March 11:40

[quote=ChrisW.]That's interesting, so a third of the failures on that list are 991.1 GT3RS (the latest engine) .... and less than a third of them are moderately or heavily tracked ... the rest have little or no track use, though some are quite high mileage. With a little time this could be broken down to give more detail ... 86 cars listed since October '24. NOTE !! Looking again what is this a list of ? None of the GT3RS engines have been replaced ... only cars with engines replaced have a reason for this, so all the others may still be going strong ?? Herewith a brief explanation of this information dated 1st January '25 ...

[Image-only or quote-only post; no author-written text.] https://forums-images.pistonheads.com/416266/202503145717171?resize=720

What about the 991R. Won’t their engines also have finger followers and at least in theory the same issues?

Yes also the same. I think 991R was also pegged back to 8500rpm on the rev limiter. Max power was @8250 anyway so not much loss. Tbf, even though ‘9k’ is the limit for these post Mezger engines… max power is much earlier on all these cars so no need to take all the life out of these engines. The 9k is headroom just in case you need it, especially for downshifts. Edited by TDT on Friday 14th March 18:25

But I do still find that I occasionally hit the rev limiter on up changes ...

Yes it does happen as they rev so quick, and particularly if you are manual shifting and also watching you mirrors or have some other mental load occurring at the same time.

I have always found on mine that the last 500 revs are not that nice. The power drops off very quickly after the power peak and shifting at about 8500 RPM is the sweet spot. An added benefit of that is that the awful mechanical noise that they make in the last 500 revs is avoided. Certainly it is very handy to have those extra 500 revs to save an upshift and they do get used occasionally but if the engine was limited to 8500 RPM it’s no great loss. I just don’t get where the additional engine noise comes from over the last 500 revs, but it’s not nice. Personally my benchmark is the V10 Audi engine, which in my case is limited to 8750RPM. It is as sweet as a nut and pulls hard right up to the limiter. I will hit the limiter over and over again on a track day with no issues at all. An Achilles heel of the MA1.7x series in my humble opinion.

dbjames said: Here's an updated table as of 12/25 5 G6 failures now reported. Enough to put me off tuning the car of forgoing extended warranty at least.... Edited by dbjames on Wednesday 24th December 21:34 Where are these figures from?

The problem with the 991.1 GT3 engine is that it’s a design issue related to wear and mode of use. I don’t think an engine getting to 10 years is any sign that it is a good one or a bad one, and I don’t think there is an easy way of knowing how a car has been used. Interesting to see that there are also G6 engine failures. I was under the impression that they were much better. Don’t forget that you can get a Porsche extended warranty after the 10 year engine warranty expires. I’d happily run a car under the Porsche extended warranty but not one without.

Babw said: Where are these figures from? The Rennlist database https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1k_0jjgwrsg...

Here's an updated table as of 12/25 5 G6 failures now reported. Enough to put me off tuning the car or forgoing extended warranty at least.... Edited by dbjames on Wednesday 24th December 21:34 Edited by dbjames on Saturday 27th December 11:16 Edited by dbjames on Saturday 27th December 11:19

dbjames said: The Rennlist database https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1k_0jjgwrsg... Looking at the data in a bit more depth, three of the G6 failures are quite odd. Bottom end failure and oil pump bolt failure. Neither of those are specific to a 991.1 and could certainly be many reasons apart from a design flaw. The most recent bearing failure seems to have happened after 1000 miles and Porsche aren t covering it under warranty according to that data, got to be more to that. It maybe worth comparing the G6 failure rate to a 991.2. Porsche tech has unequivocally told me they see more 991.2 failures than G6, the cams aren t DLC coated and high rpm oil issues exist on the 991.2. Looking at data in isolation doesn't really give you much and if anyone thinks a 9k rpm motor with regular track use won’t need a rebuild, they’re in for a rude awakening. Edited by Babw on Monday 29th December 16:23

My mate's 991.1 RS had a new engine-swarf in oil found at service

TDT said: Yes also the same. I think 991R was also pegged back to 8500rpm on the rev limiter. Max power was @8250 anyway so not much loss. Tbf, even though 9k is the limit for these post Mezger engines max power is much earlier on all these cars so no need to take all the life out of these engines. The 9k is headroom just in case you need it, especially for downshifts. Edited by TDT on Friday 14th March 18:25 Or if Misha Charoudin is driving your pride and joy on the Nordshliefe.