Michelin PS4 A/S - Current thoughts, especially winter/early spring?

Hi gang, I've admittedly been wicked quiet here due to a few rounds of health issues (thankfully nothing major, but it's just been back-to-back), plus continued re-entry after my insane 4250-mile trip in November. (I'll announce the cool stuff as soon as it's ready, so stay tuned.) As some of you know, I'm squarely a winter Boxster contrarian here. For years, I've continue to enjoy driving in the wintertime in my Boxsters, relying on both dedicated winter tires and respective hardtops -- both my former 987.1S and now my 987.2 2.9L. It's great fun, and I can't recommend it enough. In fact, I'm hoping to enjoy my annual trip up to NH ski country next month and the Boxster is ready to go. Typically, I shuttle between Michelin X-Ice 3s for the winter, and Michelin PS4S for the summertime. They're different tools for different jobs up here in New England. I lose a lot of handling performance with the X-Ice, but at least I don't shudder when it snows. With the PS4S , in the summer - the street experience is unparalleled with zero compromises. The car is on rails at every turn. Sticky, sticky, sticky! With the QuickJack , I find that swapping them out is a relatively easy 1-hour job (plus taking out and putting away the QJ). I mean, if guys swap tires every track day, it shouldn't be that much of a big deal. Anyhow, I remain a firm believer of dedicated winter/summer tires as we're driving a dedicated sports car. However, with regards to A/S, my resolve is ever so crumbling -- but in a very different way than I expected. In short, I'm now seriously eyeing a used set of Michelin PS4 A/S, dedicated solely for my super-long road trips. I already have the extra rims on-hand, so that's not really an issue. So what's the deal? Well, back in November when I did that crazy trip, I took a gamble by trying use up my 13-year-old Bridgestone Potenza summer tires . I had a pro mechanic friend take a peek at them before I left, and he agreed that they seemed grippy enough. In practice, they were indeed useable. I drove some of the most challenging steep mountain twists, including doing Tail of the Dragon twice. They hung in there in upper 30ºF temps and the tread loss for the entire trip wasn't terrible. Meanwhile, was the car pleasant to drive on those tires ? Absolutely not. They were crazy loud, and I could feel every bang. Every concrete slabs on the NJ Turnpike made me shudder, and the non-stop concrete of SC was insane. Thank god I brought ear plugs. Now, I knew that I was going to recycle them when I got home like a pair of old sneakers -- so that's indeed happening -- despite the fact there's plenty of tread. They're trash. When I mounted my winter Michelins , I realized -- I just needed new tires -- not new shocks! LOL. But in very early April, I may be doing another insane trip to the South again to cover another concours. That's late bridge season, and I feel like the winters would be way too soft for a trip south and the tread would be gobbled up by the roadway. Plus, high mileage on the pricey summer tires would just be a total waste of tread. Enter the PS4 A/S. I had two sets mounted on my wife's MINI Countryman S ALL4, and they're solid performers -- although the tread got eaten up far more quickly than I had hoped to see. Plus, with an inch of unplowed snow on the road last night both on backroads and the Interstate, apparently things were mildly dicey -- and that's in a 4WD car. Meanwhile, I don't expect to hit snow on my long road trips, but am focusing on average ride comfort, quiet, and reasonable (if not) perfect handling. I also have kept my eyes out for a used set of the Michelin Cross Climate 2s as my winter tires overall, but nothing has really come up. Any thoughts, I'm all ears. Cheers.

I have the pilot all seasons on mine. I've never wanted for grip on the street. They wear great. I've never tried in snow but had them out in sub freezing Virginia winters. I feel like they are a touch noisy but never had anything to compare them to....and won't since I will put them on again . For reference...years ago lots of autocross, kart racing, motorcycle racing, car track days and raced spec e30....I can push a car...but don't push that hard on the street. (My wife would not agree with that statement.)

That's a huge help, @Ric_in_RVA -- especially as VA is precisely in the region where I'll be heading if all goes to plan. So basically, you run them year-round and enjoy the grip without compromise? The set I'm looking at is probably at about 6/32", which should be plenty left for part-time usage on a tight budget. TBH, my guess is that the tires would expire before I'd wear them out. Good to know about noise too. Again the old Bridgestones are noisy as hell and the X-Ice reminded me that I do indeed have a quiet car -- assuming I've got the right tires on there. I extra appreciate the E30 reference. I've had my E30 'vert for 25+ years and have spun out before on Blizzaks with mild snow. I now respect what grip is all about.

Come drive it.....I have no worries with the car. I have to work to get it to rotate.

That's very cool and thanks, Ric. The fact that you have to push the car totally speaks volumes. I'm likely going to pull the trigger on these. Again, anything will be better than those round rocks that I was driving.

When I had my S2000 I replaced some old summer Potenzas I had on it too long with PS4 A/S although to be honest I think I ordered the wrong ones or the PS4S weren't out yet. Nonetheless, those went on there. They were significantly better than the Potenzas that came off though. I'm sure it's some tire tech improvements too, but I thought they were great overall. I'll probably put the PS4 A/S on my other car (Alfa Giulia) when the P-Zeros are bad enough on it, and most likely the PS4S on my Cayman when it's P-Zeros are gone. P-Zeros aren't bad here in Texas but when it's colder like now you really notice how hard they get. If I lived somewhere cold they might have had to go. I'm curious on your crazy long road trips, do you carry a spare of some sort? Or have used the slime kit? Or just count on luck and roadside assistance?

Thanks @KillerBs75 - I’m assuming you need the A/S in TX more for the cold? i love my standard PS4S and would run the pm year round if the ramps were warm enough. FWIW, I pack a collapsible spare in the frunk and have towing on my policy. Slime is terrible; I’ll likely be writing an article on all this subject soon.

Need is a strong word for the cold in Texas. I'll just say I've had a better experience in the cold with A/S over summer tires. It's not that big of a deal to run summer times 12 months of the year here though. Just as an example, last Saturday AM it was 25 degrees and the car is just less comfortable and less grippy until the tires get a little heat in them. It's also my understanding the P-Zeros are just worse at cold temps anyway. It's a minor thing though and I intend my Porsche to stay on summer tires always. The PS4 A/S are excellent though. They were next on the list to put on the SUV having run Continental, Bridgestone, and Nitto A/S prior. I had a couple years ago and I had a flat in town but on a freeway that I totally was not going to pull over on anyway (even driving on a wheel is cheaper than being hit by a car at 90mph). It sort of freaked me out and I did run flats instead. I was also in a pinch of "what does this tire shop have now". Which is sort of leading into the note about your road trips. I've done a few not quite 4200 but definitely over 3000mi trips in years past. With no spare of any sort and some of the places and level of remote I went it was honestly very ill advised in hindsight. I very well could have been camping out on a gravel road waiting for the next car to drive by when I hadn't seen a car in two hours and phone doesn't work. I sort of burned out on the epic road trip after too many in too few years, but considering another and I might even consider taking the Cayman on one, so I'll be looking for that write up.

I’ll be watching for your insight into the slime. This is the first car I’ve owned without a ‘spare’, having grown up when cars had a full-sized spare under the trunk floor, which evolved into the compact spare, which left one lacking confidence driving on a donut marked, ‘Do not exceed 50 mph or use for more than 50 miles’. So, each time I come across that bottle of green goop in my frunk I pray will never be in such straits as to resort to using that and holding my breath all the way home.

I went from General Gmaxx RS (summer tire) to PS4 A/S (got a deal at Costco) and immediately didn't like the feel. the softer sidewall is immediately noticeable and leads to a vagueness in the steering. I also felt the car would follow the slope of the road so driving on roads with a definitive crown would be a PITA. They lasted OKish (longer than the Gmaxx RS but hugely so). I won't put them on a 987 again and have gone back to the Gmaxx RS.

@KillerBs75 - Interesting across the board. I know it can indeed get wicked cold down in TX (unlike what people think, it's not like FL), but it's cool that you can indeed run summers year-round. I'm definitely looking forward to writing up the whole spare tire thing. I was definitely in places where there was squarely no cell phone service, and nobody around for many, many miles. I'm glad I went prepared and consider myself lucky. @WTFChuck - Yup, I didn't want to chance going with a very likely expired bottle of slime. More later; stay tuned. Either way, towing is key. @Apexhunter987 - Definitely valuable insights and I really appreciate it. As these would likely be dedicated long-distance road-trip tires, I actually would happily sacrifice some handling if a softer sidewall if it means a quieter and a softer ride. Meanwhile, it sounds like I wouldn't want to drive these year-round. My X-Ice3 are super soft and would be fantastic for such, but they'd get eaten up. As an aside about the "crown" of the road, @Apexhunter987 --- You said, "I also felt the car would follow the slope of the road so driving on roads with a definitive crown would be a PITA." e weird thing here is that I think I've experienced this with every tire in both my former 987.1S and the 987.2 -- aka, I figured it was a feature and not a bug about the 987's precise handling. Maybe I'm missing something? Put it this way: If there's a slight slope to the right for water drainage (exit lane), I can sense an ever so slight pull to the right. If there's a slight slope for water drainage to the left (passing lane), it pulls ever so slightly to the left. If I'm centered in the center (travel) lane, there's no pull at all. Any thoughts, I'm all ears.

I have the Pilot A/S on my winter rims. It’s a great tire, I do feel a little less grip than my Pzeros but in the winter I don’t push as hard as the summer. So they are just right.

Soooo, here's the update. I was ready to go pick up the tires yesterday, which was going to be a bit of a complicated purchase (fronts from one seller, rears from another), but the fronts were just too worn and would have been a waste of time. Boo-hiss. This being said, if I see another pair of matching fronts for sale, I'm just going to go pick them up. The key thing here is that these wouldn't be a terribly important set of tires , but would be far more enjoyable than the rocks that I had used. TBH - As stupid as it may be, I'm half tempted to just throw the rocks back on for one final road trip if it comes to that in April. Again, they still had plenty of grip (especially at the Dragon and the mountain roads) and never lost it at any point. It was just more of a question of the road noise that was bugging me (ear plugs further south) and the harsher ride than anything. We'll see.

No, it doesn't sound stupid. At some point the rubber gets so hard they just stop wearing. Just be aware too that aquaplaning in the wet happens so much easier with old tires, so drive accordingly. I bought an E30 with very old tires and they were great until it rained. Next day I changed them for new. I would run pressures on the low side, get some heat in the carcass. Nothing extreme, a couple of psi. Try it and see, easy enough to change back. So apexhunter, I felt the same way when I installed PS4 A/S. Definite loss of precision, still good but not razor sharp any more. On the plus side, more plush.

Thanks, @roblesnie - You've got a good point. Again, they were just fine for the trip and came home in great condition. Just way too noisy for long distance travel (especially on concrete), and stiff when encountering serious bumps or bad surfaces. TBH, I never lost a single moment's grip in both the wet and the dry, and that includes the twistiest mountain roads I've ever driven. I was also pretty careful about making sure the tires were warmed up when things were below 40ºF as I headed home in late November. We'll see - If I can swap these in the next 6 weeks or so, I will but it's going to depend what's available on the local used market.

OP, I admire your pluck, wish I could drive my 911 's in the winter, just can't do it, the salt around here is brutal. . I do have Pilot Alpin 4s on my Golf R, and like them a lot. They are not too bad in the dry, great in the wet, and pretty good in the snow.

I am using the ps a/s full time. It is a much more comfortable and quiet tire. I'm hoping to get more miles out of them than the Bridgestone summer tires . I don't drive much so it'll be several years before I know for sure. Costco had a good price on the tires .

I've not driven a boxster on dedicated winter tires and on PS4 S AS tires as a comparison, but I think you will find a huge difference between dedicated winter tires and "All-season" and AKA no-season tires ... You might not notice that much difference in the summer time, unless you drive very spiritedly ... in which case you'd probably notice the difference between the all season and the PS4S , and for sure the PS2)

Thanks, fellas. Yeah, I'm arguably the resident contrarian here who drives my 987.2 Boxster year round with the unobtanium removable hardtop. It's like I've got a Cayman in the wintertime. New England winters here on Boston can be a bit tougher on the car, but that's what a hose and a quick rinse is for. We're supposed to get about 2' of snow in the next 48 hours, but I say "bring it on" as long as the roads are plowed. I don't want to miss out on fun driving for a third of the year. Life is too damn short. As I said, currently I'm running Michelin X-Ice and that's super-soft. I used to have Michelin Alpins, but they are wicked expensive and are squarely out of my budget. TBH, I don't mind the extra cushiness during the winter when the roads are less than perfect. Again, I'm pretty convinced that the PS4 A/S is the way to go if I can find a solid set. Meanwhile, you'll see me repeatedly praise the PS4S as a dedicated summer tire. Accept no substitutes. I'll likely be writing a piece on this in the near future, so stay tuned.

If I lived somewhere like that I'm not sure I could be a lock the car up for the winter person either. Buy some nice winter tires and go.

I use the PS4 All season and I love them. They rate very closely to the summer tires and look a little beefier which I actually like. They are also great in the rain like the summers. However this is a bit further south than you and if your weather is more consistantly snowy and you do not mind the loss of feel with the winter ones that is fine. But if 90% of the time it is just cold or a little frosty and rainy, you might consider the All seasons all the time, or just for fall to Spring. Just a thought.

Got out to the "test Track" yesterday and drove my PS4 A/S tires to the point I got a gentle push that easily controllable. 16 degrees. Car had been driven an easy 5 miles...so I don't think they were close to warmed up. No real issues and plenty of feedback. I LOVE this car and the R springs and Konis Sports....which are SUPER stiff the first few miles at 16 degrees!!!! I don't think you are even supposed to move the summer tires at 16 degrees are you?

If you even look at them at 16ºF, I think they'll definitely shatter. Stay safe down in VA.

This thread had me thinking if I got the right tires . Luckily I did, this video was good about distinguishing the two options, Pilot Sport All Season 4 vs 4S. I daily commute, 12 miles each way 10 on the i5, about 1 mile to work and 1 mile home off the i5, luckily reverse traffic so its racing the whole way . San Diego weather is "mostly" always mild, all season for daily driving. Woulda sucked to have bought the wrong ones, thanks to guys at Costco who counceled me based on what I was using my Porsche for. 🙏

AztroRover, So which did you choose, you didn't say in your post. Just curious. Thanks!

Sorry, I went with the All Seasons. Due to the daily commutes, longer wear and wanting a confortable ride over all.

For those of us a bit further north ....... I bought A/S4 to augment the summer tires . But I am wondering if I should have gone with the Michelin CC2 instead. It is not UHP rated but come on, I'm not taking them on an autobahn. In Vancouver, we are mostly in the 30 - 40F range, OK for the A/S. However if I want to go anywhere out of suburbia and into the hills, I need all-weather/snowflake tires . Or full winters. It's a requirement. I do feel constrained, tbh. My car is not that precious and I like to drive when it gets gnarly. You can explore the ragged edge at sane speeds. Responsibly of course . Maybe switching between A/S and CC2 is how I should go. But then Marketplace does have used mounted winters for sale, mostly on 18" wheels. My A/S are 19"s. Decisions, decisions. R

I lived in both Alaska and Vancouver for a while (speaking of up north), and if you are driving yours year round, I would personally ditch the performance summer tires. There is a small gain in steering feel with them, but if where you live has roads in the condition I saw up there, all seasons are simply a more appropriate tire even for the summer. I just switched to all seasons for my car that I daily and after an initial “this feels less sporty”, I still drive the same way, take the same on ramp at the same speed, still drive the same mountain roads the same… I, and I think most of us here, just don’t (and shouldn’t) use that much tire to require a borderline track tire on public streets. I applaud you for not being so precious with the car 👍

I have PS4 A/S for the winter. They are not remotely as awesome as the PS4S . I don't have an extra set of rims to make the swaps easy, and also because I thought I might run them all the time, but there is no doubt that I can't wait to get the PS4Ss back on and I'm not sure what I'll do next winter. Nothing wrong with the PS4 A/S - I think they're very good. But no where close to the on-the-rails feeling of the summer tires for me.

I agree. I still have my Pzeros but going with 4S next . On my 4SA/S now for the winter and they are fine for daily or some spirited driving. But if you push it you can feel the difference from summers. One issue with the sticky summer tires is there is so many small pebbles and debris on the roads in NY. Constantly hearing them rattle, get very little with the A/S.

I never like PZ4's Michelin PS4s are still the best overall tires for any usage. You can get better track/AX tires but to do it all I don't think anything does so much so well.