997.1 GT3 Engine Issues - Page 5 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Does anyone know of any 997.1 GT3 engine failures or have any of you any experience of issues with the GT3 engines? I recently (in Feb) purchased a 997.1 C2S and though I do love the car I have always wanted a GT3 The car I am looking to buy is a 997.1 GT3 and I will be in a position to buy in March next year and between now and then, I am trying to gather as much information as I can. Currently, my C2S costs me nothing but fuel and consumables and it's still under a 12 month warranty from RSJ so there is peace of mind I get with that in case anything major goes wrong. I have covered over 10,000 miles since I bought the car in Feb and have been into France, Germany, Italy, Switzerland and Austria where the car has performed faultlessly and has bought many a smile to my face. My concern is that GT3 may not be as kind to my wallet as the C2S and in order to mitigate that risk, I am trying to establish what I need to check or look out for when viewing potential cars. When I was looking for a C2S this forum (and various magazine articles) had lots of information on IMS, RMS, potential problems etc etc but when searching for info on the GT3 I am struggling to find information. Can anyone point me in the direction of a list of potential issues to look out for and checks to make? So far, I have gathered the following from the GT Purely Porsche guide ..... Ensure the clutch biting point is not high - if so the clutch may need replacing Check the brake discs for cracks - they tend to wear quite quickly - aftermarket Alcons is a plus Check front screws holding bells to discs - they can come loose Check for noisy front shocks - coil springs can cut into top mounts Check for oil leaks on cam chain housing The above is a great starting point but there is not much there in relation to potential engine issues.....are there any to worry about? I will be eternally grateful for your help (and so will my wallet)

I suspect that GT3 owners don't like to comment as it is a very small market and cars get tainted. I would venture that RMS failure is a possibility, but not that common. I would also recommend that for a 7.1 stick it on an OPC warranty which will give you total piece of mind.

Old Trout said: I suspect that GT3 owners don't like to comment as it is a very small market and cars get tainted. I would venture that RMS failure is a possibility, but not that common. I would also recommend that for a 7.1 stick it on an OPC warranty which will give you total piece of mind. Things like RMS and coil pack failure I can cope with (and plan for) but what I am trying to establish is if there has been any cases of issues like bore scoring or D-chunk failures etc. Are these failures limited to the 'standard' engines? I will probably get a Porsche warranty on the car after 3 months of ownership but I don't like paying OPC prices for the car Currently, OPC cars are priced around £5k (minimum) more than private or specialist dealer prices. I just want to step into GT3 ownership with my eyes wide open.

No issues - it's the Mezger!

I've had a gen 1 and now have a gen 2, not aware of any real issues with the actual engine. In fact I've always been under the impression these engines were renowned for not having any real problem areas.

A well looked after GT3 engine is near as dammit bulletproof. You will always find the odd case of issues, but fundamentally these are the strongest water cooled engines Porsche makes. None of us here have the statistics to prove that statement, but those of us who are part of the track day scene will know that GT3s are a weapon of choice with good reason - they are ultra strong and reliable. As ever, it is vital to buy on condition not mileage. Cheers

Quite a few RMS replacements.

When my C2S had its first OPC service at 2 years, back in 2009 I was shown around the dealer's workshop. At that time there were two 997 GT3s in, both with engines out, apparently with significant oil leak issues. I remember being told that one was regularly tracked, so the issues weren't unexpected. Never heard of bore scoring etc. issues

I had my old 997.1GT3 for over three years, 16k miles, a lot of them hard and it never ever missed a beat! Other than consumables, tyres, brakes etc I didn't have to replace anything, fabulous cars, if you take the plunge you will not be disappointed I agree in buying a car with OPC warranty tho, simply for peace of mind, I doubt you will need it, but..... g

Its not the same engine as your C2S and hardly shares any of the same mechanical parts. Its derived from a completely different engine block that has proven reliability over at least a decade. The car itself is likely to suffer with all the same age and wear related items to your C2S such as rads, aircon, brakes, coil packs etc etc. I have never seen any recurrent engine problems on the internet or through personal ownership. If you find any - let us know!

Pugley said: Its not the same engine as your C2S and hardly shares any of the same mechanical parts. Its derived from a completely different engine block that has proven reliability over at least a decade. The car itself is likely to suffer with all the same age and wear related items to your C2S such as rads, aircon, brakes, coil packs etc etc. I have never seen any recurrent engine problems on the internet or through personal ownership. If you find any - let us know! Excellent! That is what I had hoped but I feared otherwise. Thanks for your replies everyone

What about the glued-in water pipe issue? See this thread on the PCGB forum: http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=730888

I did the same as you back in July and I haven't regretted the move, although I have had a ref niggles and the girlfriend would now rather I kept the "S" due to it's ride being more compliant than the GT3.... However, the first time you hear that engine sing to the limiter - you will be smitten! I think there have been some issues with oil leaks, but I would have expected that by now all of these would have been fixed under warranty. The engine is renown to be the toughest in the game and will take many times the abuse of a standard unit without complaint, unless hugely over revved ("buzzed") on downchanges. What they are known to consume is tyres, brakes and suspension parts as most have seen some hard driving or track work. So top mounts, coffin arms and dampers are viewed as "consumables"; although the parts and the labour prices to fix them are astronomical .... Clutches do wear out and some are heavy, much heavier than the C2S. This can either be the "assister" spring wearing out or the clutch itself. The former being much cheaper than the latter. MM.

I personally know of one 997.1 GT3 engine failure where the conrod snapped & punched through the side of the block, effectively destroying the engine. It could have been rebuilt but the cost exceeded what Porsche wanted for an exchange engine (circa £14K + VAT, IIRC). The car wasn't in warranty & the owner bore the full cost. The engine showed no over-revs to account for the failure & had been (over) serviced regularly by the trackday-loving owner. I've seen two other 997.1 GT3s that have expired catastrophically on track but have no information about the background on them.

nxi20 said: I personally know of one 997.1 GT3 engine failure where the conrod snapped & punched through the side of the block, effectively destroying the engine. It could have been rebuilt but the cost exceeded what Porsche wanted for an exchange engine (circa £14K + VAT, IIRC). The car wasn't in warranty & the owner bore the full cost. The engine showed no over-revs to account for the failure & had been (over) serviced regularly by the trackday-loving owner. I've seen two other 997.1 GT3s that have expired catastrophically on track but have no information about the background on them. hi nick & op, i also know this car & it's owner... also remember the incident on track. i too know of other similar stories relating to early 7.1 gt3's. the problem is with the conrods i believe... ade

keep it lit said: nxi20 said: I personally know of one 997.1 GT3 engine failure where the conrod snapped & punched through the side of the block, effectively destroying the engine. It could have been rebuilt but the cost exceeded what Porsche wanted for an exchange engine (circa £14K + VAT, IIRC). The car wasn't in warranty & the owner bore the full cost. The engine showed no over-revs to account for the failure & had been (over) serviced regularly by the trackday-loving owner. I've seen two other 997.1 GT3s that have expired catastrophically on track but have no information about the background on them. hi nick & op, i also know this car & it's owner... also remember the incident on track. i too know of other similar stories relating to early 7.1 gt3's. the problem is with the conrods i believe... ade Thanks Nick and Ade. Could you explain any further as to what the specific issue is? Is it a manufacturing issue? Is it preventable? Are there any tell-tale signs to look out for? Thanks in advance

As a 997 owner with an enternal mind towards the poetntial issues of the M97 engine and seeing the best solution as a 997.1 GT3, this is a very interesting thread. Thanks for posting.

RiccardoG said: As a 997 owner with an enternal mind towards the poetntial issues of the M97 engine and seeing the best solution as a 997.1 GT3, this is a very interesting thread. Thanks for posting. Ni worries RiccardoG Even though I love my C2S and it has never let me down, the thought of it potentially requiring a large chunk of cash spending on it is detracting from the enjoyment somewhat. I have always wanted a GT3 so if I can upgrade and not have the threat of engine issues weighing on my shoulders (and at the same time, limiting depreciation) then it's killing two birds with one stone

I think your post and what your are looking for is a prudent move. An OPC warranty is such a piece of mind when spending the big bucks as if anything goes wrong ( other than consumables ) you get it sorted. If it is that broken they will even pick it up and deliver you a hire car. I depends how risk averse you are ? There was an excellent article on Rennlist I think about the technicalities of the leaking RMS and why it does it. Well worth a read if you can search it out. Might allay some fears

I have not heard of any psrticular engine issue with the 3.6 litre engine beyond fairly rare RMS stuff. If you intend to track,the one thing to be aware of is that they can spray coolant suddenly unless you get the coolant pipe welded. This requires them to drop the enging but its a straightforward job. Steel discs may show some cracking but its not a bid deal unless they are cracking vertically to join the holes. Virtually every car I have seen has minor cracks and mine showed up after a week at the Ring years ago and never got worse. Overall, as others have said, the engine is bulletproof. Just as well as a replacement is eye wateringly expensive. As with any car like this you need an impeccable service history.

echo above. engine bombproof. coolant pipes are glued on and can come off! as an aside, Hans Mezger didn't design the GT3 engine but the design is derived from Mezger's work on earlier engines. Check the DME (over-rev) data on any potential purchase. Especially if you intend to get a Porsche warranty.

I have been researching the GT3 market/potential issues for the past 4 months. As others have said, normal Porsche consumables such as rads, air con conds, brakes etc apply. Suspension components need more regular replacement when compared to a C2S as an example and RMS replacement is also a regular occurrence. I have been told by Specialists who are used to dealing with GT3's, that there is a problem with some GT3 engine blocks. Evidently, some suffered from porous blocks and the only way to rectify is a new engine. An impecable service history is a must. There was a thread on here a few weeks ago regarding a car that had missed a service. Most contributors advised the potential buyer to look elsewhere. At that time, I was looking at an 07' Comfort with 4,300 miles on the clock. It did not have it's first service until 2011. Even though it had only covered 1000 miles at that time, it put me off buying it. An ECU Interrogation can revel Rev range breaches, operating hours, if the Airbags have been primed to activate etc Value wise, they are sensitive to mileage, spec and ownership tally and the slightest of issues will send potential purchasers running for the hills. One specialist told me that GT3 buyers look for a reason not to buy a particular car. I have now viewed a number of cars. Most were either in a poor condition and or had issues of some description. Pound for pound, the best car I viewed was at on sale at Portiacraft, last summer. It was an '07 Comfort UK car with decent options, no Rev Range breaches, 14,000 miles and 2 owners from new. It had a full service history however, this had been done at Portiacraft. An issue for some maybe. It had new tyres all round and freshly refurbished wheels. In my view, it needed a good detail but It was priced at 50,000GBP....I wasn't quick enough and it sold to someone else.

V8KSN said: Thanks Nick and Ade. Could you explain any further as to what the specific issue is? Is it a manufacturing issue? Is it preventable? Are there any tell-tale signs to look out for? Thanks in advance I very much doubt that there any signs that a conrod failure is imminent; it's not a part that can fail gradually. The only way to prevent it would be a full strip & replacement but that's a huge undertaking absent any other need to do it. A few engines going bang isn't a good predictor that any other engine built in the same era will also go bang. I can't say with absolute certainty, but I was told that Porsche changed the design of the conrod in the early 997 GT3; my memory is that it involved making the wrist pin a smaller diameter but I could be mis-remembering. I do know that they have been through several revisions. Fioran0 might be able to shed more light on this. By way of an illustration, here are my old conrods from an '04 GT3: And here are the last revision rods from the 997 3.6 litre Cup engine (2009, IIRC). Note in particular how the reinforcing web has been reduced around the wrist pin end & all the smoothing off that has been done around the big end. The later rods are lighter and reputedly stronger despite going on a diet.

keep it lit said: nxi20 said: I personally know of one 997.1 GT3 engine failure where the conrod snapped & punched through the side of the block, effectively destroying the engine. It could have been rebuilt but the cost exceeded what Porsche wanted for an exchange engine (circa £14K + VAT, IIRC). The car wasn't in warranty & the owner bore the full cost. The engine showed no over-revs to account for the failure & had been (over) serviced regularly by the trackday-loving owner. I've seen two other 997.1 GT3s that have expired catastrophically on track but have no information about the background on them. hi nick & op, i also know this car & it's owner... also remember the incident on track. i too know of other similar stories relating to early 7.1 gt3's. the problem is with the conrods i believe... ade Pretty sure its the same owner who came to the alps with us this year. He said that when you look into it, quite a few have gone bang. That said its probably still rare and any engine can fail on track. They used to say the k20a and s2000 honda lumps were bulletproof ..... My @rse ! Edited by jackal on Monday 26th November 17:59

jackal said: Pretty sure its the same owner who came to the alps with us this year. He said that when you look into it, quite a few have gone bang. That said its probably still rare and any engine can fail on track. They used to say the k20a and s2000 honda lumps were bulletproof ..... My @rse ! Edited by jackal on Monday 26th November 17:59 yep same dude..

jackal said: Pretty sure its the same owner who came to the alps with us this year. He said that when you look into it, quite a few have gone bang. That said its probably still rare and any engine can fail on track. They used to say the k20a and s2000 honda lumps were bulletproof ..... My @rse ! Edited by jackal on Monday 26th November 17:59 Suppose it depends on what people's definition is of "quite a few" but I read of a couple more failures of 997 mk1 gt3's in America but al in all it would seem you would be very very unlucky if it happened to you!

I think the general message is that the Mezger 6 in these cars are very very strong. Bear in mind that cars with extensive track use are going to have spent a high(er) percentage of their lives at elevated revs. Not being buzzed mind you just being used hard. The splitters are a consumable as well remember, very difficult to avoid bashing them periodically. In all honesty the main expense over and above a C2S is the temptation to tweak it to get it just how you want it. Addictive.

agtlaw said: echo above. engine bombproof. coolant pipes are glued on and can come off! as an aside, Hans Mezger didn't design the GT3 engine but the design is derived from Mezger's work on earlier engines. Check the DME (over-rev) data on any potential purchase. Especially if you intend to get a Porsche warranty. Unless the bomb goes off next to a con rod, coolant union, rms or the gear shift whilst your going down the box presumably?

I had 2 and both had rms leaks(weeps) fixed under warranty. These were not dripping leaks but profit making warranty work for the dealer...both were fixed permanently although the first one took two goes but I think they were learning the fix. Apart from that sublime car, sublime engine. Have seen a few go bang on tracks but mostly caused by the "money shift". Would not hesitate to own a gen 1 and a fantastic choice after a C2S if you are looking for something a little mor extreme.

ttdan said: Have seen a few go bang on tracks but mostly caused by the "money shift". I suppose its no wonder Porsche want to remove this risk in the next GT3.

Ignore any comments that talk about Mezger engines being bullet-proof, bomb-proof, anything-proof... they are certainly not. These engines have numerous issues like most other engines, from snapped chains, to coolant hoses popping out, rod failure, rms, ims (even if much more rare than the cooking version), oil leaks, etc etc If you are worried, buy one with wtee would be my only real suggestion. Otherwise take a view that if the history checks out and the DME interrogation appears reasonable, then whilst thats not a guarantee that you won't have engine issues, its all you can do to minimise the risk. % of problems out there is likely to be quite small - but they certainly exist and are more common than many here seem to think.

ZeroH said: Ignore any comments that talk about Mezger engines being bullet-proof, bomb-proof, anything-proof... they are certainly not. These engines have numerous issues like most other engines, from snapped chains, to coolant hoses popping out, rod failure, rms, ims (even if much more rare than the cooking version), oil leaks, etc etc If you are worried, buy one with wtee would be my only real suggestion. Otherwise take a view that if the history checks out and the DME interrogation appears reasonable, then whilst thats not a guarantee that you won't have engine issues, its all you can do to minimise the risk. % of problems out there is likely to be quite small - but they certainly exist and are more common than many here seem to think. Is it not the case though, that many of these failures are compounded by the very hard life many of these cars endure. Surely most equivalent Carreras would never see such extreme use and abuse?

mollytherocker said: ttdan said: Have seen a few go bang on tracks but mostly caused by the "money shift". I suppose its no wonder Porsche want to remove this risk in the next GT3. In relative terms its the vast minority that this can happen tooo. and then it's a money spinner as a mis shift isn't a warranty claim.

mollytherocker said: Is it not the case though, that many of these failures are compounded by the very hard life many of these cars endure. Surely most equivalent Carreras would never see such extreme use and abuse? Not impossible certainly... but things like coolant pipes popping out have happened on very low mile road only cars. My only comment really is to say that anyone buying a turbo or GT model needs to be aware that engines can cause issues (and that aside electrical ancillaries like alternators which often only seem to have a 5/6yr life), so best to factor in the ability to deal with such issues on any purchase outside of wtee, even if its not a common occurance.

ZeroH said: Not impossible certainly... but things like coolant pipes popping out have happened on very low mile road only cars. My only comment really is to say that anyone buying a turbo or GT model needs to be aware that engines can cause issues (and that aside electrical ancillaries like alternators which often only seem to have a 5/6yr life), so best to factor in the ability to deal with such issues on any purchase outside of wtee, even if its not a common occurance. Wise words that would apply to most hi per sports cars.

LaurasOtherHalf said: Unless the bomb goes off next to a con rod, coolant union, rms or the gear shift whilst your going down the box presumably? you're* coolant system isn't an engine fault. neither is a spastic mis-shift.

nxi20 said: And here are the last revision rods from the 997 3.6 litre Cup engine (2009, IIRC). Note in particular how the reinforcing web has been reduced around the wrist pin end & all the smoothing off that has been done around the big end. The later rods are lighter and reputedly stronger despite going on a diet. Those rods look to be cast, not forged, to me - evidenced by the finish on the unmachined parts of the rod. Very surprised to find cast rods in such an expensive 8000rpm+ engine. Did/do any of the GT3s have forged rods?

ZeroH said: ... ims (even if much more rare than the cooking version) So rare that it has an incidence of precisely ZERO. There is no IMS in the GT3/GT2/Turbo engine.

Wow! So many replies and so much to think about! Thanks everyone. I was hoping this thread would be full of posts saying the GT3 engine is failure free but I guess that was pretty naive So where do I go from here? Well I will be buying from a reputable specialist indy so some of the checks like rev range readouts and ECU checks will have been done for me (with evidence provided) and they will also provide a decent warranty too. Three months later I can maybe put the car on an OPC warranty if it passes the 111 checks. Things like the coolant pipes needing welding in place I can look at later (or negotiate its inclusion in the sale) and things like electrical ancillaries and consumables are fine to deal with so I guess that leaves the conrod and porous block issues..........there is nothing I can do about them! The reason I started this thread is because I don't like the threat of engine failure hanging round my neck with the C2S and I want to upgrade to a GT3. Will the GT3 be problem free? Probably not. Am I swapping one problem for another? Maybe. Things I am sure of.... There are fewer issues with the GT3 engine than with the C2S engine. The GT3 will depreciate at a slower rate than the C2S. Next year I will only be driving the car on tours and the occasional track day and for these, the GT3 will feel more special (not to mention faster and more involving which is the overriding reason to upgrade) Taking into account all of the above and all your posts so far, the plan to upgrade is still on track!

nxi20 said: So rare that it has an incidence of precisely ZERO. There is no IMS in the GT3/GT2/Turbo engine. That was my understanding too ....

The guy on the other thread spent 24k pounds maintaining his 996 GT3 over 4 years - he had no major issues either... Go in with eyes open...

steve singh said: The guy on the other thread spent 24k pounds maintaining his 996 GT3 over 4 years - he had no major issues either... Go in with eyes open... Thanks Paaji, I think he had a high level of OCD though, even by his own admission I'll budget around £4k per year on 6000 miles a year, that should be ok....... i think

V8KSN said: Thanks Paaji, I think he had a high level of OCD though, even by his own admission I'll budget around £4k per year on 6000 miles a year, that should be ok....... i think That sounds about right. Pretty stonking value for money if you add in 20+ mpg as well. If the geo is set up for fast road use the car handles even better but will chew through rear tyres on the inside shoulders very quickly. Especially on sport cups. Probably worth running PS2s or Continentals which give nearly as much grip, last longer and dont try and kill you on a soaking road

V8KSN said: Thanks Paaji, I think he had a high level of OCD though, even by his own admission I'll budget around £4k per year on 6000 miles a year, that should be ok....... i think I think you'll find that I was just doing what was needed when it was needed, but I did do it properly every time and that was driven by the need to keep the car in top condition - as evidenced, possibly, by the speed at which it sold. I've read this thread and had to chuckle all the way through. I bought my car on the strength of a visual check and a test drive by me, and a quick once over by JAZ. All the way through my ownership I was aware that if the engine went bang or similar, I was looking at a rebuild cost in excess of £15000.00 and just lived with it. No warranty was ever available except for the first year through 911V. My view on these cars is that if you can't afford the rebuild, or the other running costs worry you, you shouldn't be running the car. But thats just my view.........

rlw said: V8KSN said: Thanks Paaji, I think he had a high level of OCD though, even by his own admission I'll budget around £4k per year on 6000 miles a year, that should be ok....... i think I think you'll find that I was just doing what was needed when it was needed, but I did do it properly every time and that was driven by the need to keep the car in top condition - as evidenced, possibly, by the speed at which it sold. I've read this thread and had to chuckle all the way through. I bought my car on the strength of a visual check and a test drive by me, and a quick once over by JAZ. All the way through my ownership I was aware that if the engine went bang or similar, I was looking at a rebuild cost in excess of £15000.00 and just lived with it. No warranty was ever available except for the first year through 911V. My view on these cars is that if you can't afford the rebuild, or the other running costs worry you, you shouldn't be running the car. But thats just my view......... Hi Richard, sorry if I came across as being facetious or flippant with my post above, that was not my intention. I have read your thread and I can see where the money went and I am sure it was all needed (either immediately or for preventative purposes) but you must agree that 24k in 4 years is above average, no? I will be doing all the checks you did and i'll be buying from a reputable dealer with a 12 month warranty but I am just trying to establish what else may need doing so I can budget for it. If the engine goes POP then it goes POP and i will have to pay to sort it out, i'm just trying to figure out what I can do (if anything) to mitigate that risk.

V8KSN said: Hi Richard, sorry if I came across as being facetious or flippant with my post above, that was not my intention. I have read your thread and I can see where the money went and I am sure it was all needed (either immediately or for preventative purposes) but you must agree that 24k in 4 years is above average, no? I will be doing all the checks you did and i'll be buying from a reputable dealer with a 12 month warranty but I am just trying to establish what else may need doing so I can budget for it. If the engine goes POP then it goes POP and i will have to pay to sort it out, i'm just trying to figure out what I can do (if anything) to mitigate that risk. I didn't think you were being facetious and no offence even remotely taken. Yes, £24K was a f k of a lot but did include nearly £4K for paintwork so only £20K really! I think I was a bit unlucky in that the car, while well looked after, was getting to that point in its life where, simply, stuff needed doing and, combined with my way of doing things, it ended up costing more than it could have done. Also, keeping it in the OPC network will have added to the cost but probably paid off in terms of security for me and later owners. I do think that with all these cars that cost big money new, you just have to be able to take a big hit if necessary. Fortunately, it didn't happen to me and probably won't happen to anyone else but you do need to keep it at the back of your mind. And God knows what a rebuild on an AMG V8 might cost but thats another issue. BTW, my car is for sale again it seems so get down to 911V and get a proper, sorted GT3 in a decent colour, not one of those wussy 997s.......................

I changed my 2005 997.1 C2S for a 996.2 GT3 earlier this year. The 997 was mint with low milage, full OPC history and every receipt going back the the original invoice. However, I did have the niggle of the engine letting go in the back of my mind when I owned it and this issue certainly helped to make my mind up in moving to the GT3. The GT3 (albeit my 996) is a different kettle of fish and as such needs a higher level of spend to keep it right. For instance it has an LSD and the friction plates fitted from new do not last, so if you want the LSD to be doing what its supposed to do, you need to fix it with either replacement standard plates or preferably the cup plates. This will cost about GBP1000. Then there are brakes and tyres, if you drive it like it's designed to be driven then they're going to cost you too. All mechanical parts can and will fail, sometimes down to bad design (996/997 IMS issues) and sometimes down to operator error (incorrect downshift) but that should not stop you getting into a GT3. If you want one and can afford it............. do it and believe me you will not, for a minute, regret it.

nxi20 said: So rare that it has an incidence of precisely ZERO. There is no IMS in the GT3/GT2/Turbo engine. Yes I should have precised my comment.... indeed its not the same IMS design as the regular 996/7's certainly and thus won't suffer the same failure... the turbo DOES have an IMS tho that is much shorter and is gear driven, as opposed to the cooking models chain driven long shaft with seal that often breaks. Anyway, this is the IMS part i'm referring to on the turbo.

ZeroH said: nxi20 said: So rare that it has an incidence of precisely ZERO. There is no IMS in the GT3/GT2/Turbo engine. Yes I should have precised my comment.... indeed its not the same IMS design as the regular 996/7's certainly and thus won't suffer the same failure... the turbo DOES have an IMS tho that is much shorter and is gear driven, as opposed to the cooking models chain driven long shaft with seal that often breaks. Anyway, this is the IMS part i'm referring to on the turbo. Correct.

So 997.1's have 'chocolate' con rods and the 997.2's in both 3.8/4.0 have issues - sounds like the 996'3 are the ones to have Or are people just scaremongering to bring all the prices lower ;-)

The only model to really crave for is the 996 Mk1 GT3 No driver aids AND a throttle cable - just like wot old cars used to have

Pugley said: The only model to really crave for is the 996 Mk1 GT3 No driver aids AND a throttle cable - just like wot old cars used to have Apart from ABS and power assisted steering. And in common with older cars, it has less power and poor build quality. flame suit on but the mk1 is the runt of the GT3 litter.

agtlaw said: Apart from ABS and power assisted steering. And in common with older cars, it has less power and poor build quality. flame suit on but the mk1 is the runt of the GT3 litter. I didn't find any problems with build quality in my car which was 13 years old. Nothing broke or fell off and it all looked good and worked well. It all added to the lighter weight so made sense. If you look after them, they age very well. And they are at least as well built as a 2.7RS was originally and very unlikely to rust as well................. All those driver aids and build quality also add weight so you might want to change runt to lightest instead.

rlw said: I didn't find any problems with build quality in my car which was 13 years old. Nothing broke or fell off and it all looked good and worked well. It all added to the lighter weight so made sense. If you look after them, they age very well. And they are at least as well built as a 2.7RS was originally and very unlikely to rust as well................. All those driver aids and build quality also add weight so you might want to change runt to lightest instead. Did you (thrash) take it on track much or was it a 'garage queen'? It would be interesting to see whether track tools are more prone or less prone to problems bearing in mind I would guess that most track tools are possibly looked after in terms of servicing et cetera to a higher degree. Pip

Pip1968 said: Did you (thrash) take it on track much or was it a 'garage queen'? It would be interesting to see whether track tools are more prone or less prone to problems bearing in mind I would guess that most track tools are possibly looked after in terms of servicing et cetera to a higher degree. Pip It did a few trackdays and a Vmax day - surely throwing it down the runway at Bruntingthorpe at 178mph (verifiable) God knows how many times might have thrown up the odd weakness. Plus, it was an everyday car for when I needed a car so it went to work occassionally, went to LM every year, schlepped around when required and was treated to good but routine servicing. As I say, there was nothing about the car which suggested that it was likely to fall apart at any time. It was as solid as my 993 and 964 and a f k of a lot better than the 3.2 I had. The materials used may not have been as high class but they certainly stood up to normal use as well as anything.

agtlaw said: And in common with older cars, it has less power and poor build quality. flame suit on but the mk1 is the runt of the GT3 litter. A comment which shows a simply staggering lack of knowledge on your part, as the Mk1 and 2 (and thus the 996 GT3RS too) share the majority of their components.

ZeroH only swears by the 996 turbo anyways ahahahah. Had my 997.1GT3 RS, did 17kmiles in one year including numerous track days and like most here, car was well maintained and bullet proof! Purchase with a nice service record and it should prove one of the most reliable daily usable track car!

911Thrasher said: ZeroH only swears by the 996 turbo anyways ahahahah. Had my 997.1GT3 RS, did 17kmiles in one year including numerous track days and like most here, car was well maintained and bullet proof! Purchase with a nice service record and it should prove one of the most reliable daily usable track car! In fact, I swear by no Porsche engine - the issues that affect the 997GT3 equally affect the 996 turbo. Given the various and numerous issues in 986/987, 996/997 regular and gt/turbos, and Cayenne engines, I really don't think Porsche has a great record when it comes to designing and manufacturing modern engines. Time will tell if the latest DFI engines are any better, but certainly issues like rms and ims have been engineered out, which says it all !

ZeroH said: In fact, I swear by no Porsche engine - the issues that affect the 997GT3 equally affect the 996 turbo. hmmm, thats not quite true though the general peripheral items such as RMS leak and coolant fittings absolutely. they are across the board. fwiw, the prevention for RMS is apparently to drive it more. that may explain RMS leaking being more common in GT3 than turbo engines.

fioran0 said: ZeroH said: In fact, I swear by no Porsche engine - the issues that affect the 997GT3 equally affect the 996 turbo. hmmm, thats not quite true though the general peripheral items such as RMS leak and coolant fittings absolutely. they are across the board. fwiw, the prevention for RMS is apparently to drive it more. that may explain RMS leaking being more common in GT3 than turbo engines. I think for what these GT engines go through on road and track is remarkable. They do suffer the odd oil weep/leak, so does any engine over time. I have seen a handful snap a chain (never a Gt3). They are overall very reliable and stable engine, which can easily be tuned to get really big BHP from. Mike

Ian_UK1 said: Those rods look to be cast, not forged, to me - evidenced by the finish on the unmachined parts of the rod. Very surprised to find cast rods in such an expensive 8000rpm+ engine. Did/do any of the GT3s have forged rods? The 1st set of rods appear to be forged. A large flash along the rod portion is a giveaway. Cast parts have a thin flash. From the view of the 2nd set of rods one can't see the flashing but I suspect they are forged as well. The finish appears to be what I would expect if the rods were shot peened.

V8KSN said: Wow! So many replies and so much to think about! Thanks everyone. I was hoping this thread would be full of posts saying the GT3 engine is failure free but I guess that was pretty naive So where do I go from here? Well I will be buying from a reputable specialist indy so some of the checks like rev range readouts and ECU checks will have been done for me (with evidence provided) and they will also provide a decent warranty too. Three months later I can maybe put the car on an OPC warranty if it passes the 111 checks. Things like the coolant pipes needing welding in place I can look at later (or negotiate its inclusion in the sale) and things like electrical ancillaries and consumables are fine to deal with so I guess that leaves the conrod and porous block issues..........there is nothing I can do about them! The reason I started this thread is because I don't like the threat of engine failure hanging round my neck with the C2S and I want to upgrade to a GT3. Will the GT3 be problem free? Probably not. Am I swapping one problem for another? Maybe. Things I am sure of.... There are fewer issues with the GT3 engine than with the C2S engine. The GT3 will depreciate at a slower rate than the C2S. Next year I will only be driving the car on tours and the occasional track day and for these, the GT3 will feel more special (not to mention faster and more involving which is the overriding reason to upgrade) Taking into account all of the above and all your posts so far, the plan to upgrade is still on track! No such thing as a failure proof engine. While the GT3 (Mezger) engine is quite robust it can suffer catastrophic failure. The engine is only as strong as its weakest part. I know of a guy who tracked his early Boxster all the time and racked up nearly 200K miles then a rod bolt let go. Is the engine crap or ? Another example? My 03 Turbo which I bought in 09 with 10K miles. That's around 1700 miles/year. I've added miles at the average rate of 2K miles per month. The car now has over 101K miles. The last service the tech found what he believes is a RMS leak. The engine is not junk. My thinking is this is the delayed result of the previous owner just letting the car sit around for so long. I do not think the engine is crap. Another example: A 996 Turbo S owner who has put over 360K miles on his car's engine without any engine problems. Given the treatment many GT3/GT3 and even Turbo engines get they appear to hold up rather well. There are weaknesses. In my opinion one of the biggest for someone who's going to track the car I believe is the coolant pipe fittings. It is expensive but were I going to venture onto the track I would budget for this and have it done. Engine out time though. Will I have this done to my Turbo's engine? If one fails of course. (I do not track my cars.) When it comes time to replace the clutch, which my techs can do with the engine in the car, I might instead ask them to remove the engine and have this done. I don't know yet. Also, they might advise against it too based on their experience cars like mine just do not suffer from this problem often enough to make it cost effective. It wouldn't be the first time they've talked me out of expensive preventative work sometimes prompted by what I come upon on the 'net. The silly boys. They must not have gotten the email to soak the fearful/naive _filled with 'net terror stories_ customer. As for your potential car purchase, find a good one, well taken care of (documented servicing) and loved. Find one that is stock and has not been track thrashed to an inch of its life. Remember you are buying a used car so a thorough used car check out is paramount. Before this though arrange to take a test ride of 15 miles or so having the driver as the engine/drivetrain is fully up to temp demo the car in a variety of driving scenarios. City stop/go driving, cruising, high speed accel runs, light and hard braking, etc. Back at the starting point take the car out as a driver and follow the same route and drive the car the same way. After the above if you still like the car give it a zillion point used car check out. Assume nothing works until you verify it does work. If you still like the car and believe you can buy it arrange for a PPI. This is after the test ride/drive for by this time leaks should be obvious if there are any. At this time the DME overrev counters get read out along with the engine run time and if these show nothing scary and the car checks out buy it. Drive it. Take care of it. Did I mention drive it?

Bit of an old thread revival as I’m currently looking at an early 997.1, 2007 model year… I’m wondering if any of the old heads on this thread check in! I personally know of a couple of very similar aged 997.1 GT3s that went bang due to the conrod failure-has anyone got any more info on this? Was it pot luck, a bad batch, anyone know of any engine numbers? I suspect there’s no way of knowing but thought I’d ask anyway. I’d like to do another engine stroker eventually but not because of a failure!

PRO5T said: Bit of an old thread revival as I’m currently looking at an early 997.1, 2007 model year… I’m wondering if any of the old heads on this thread check in! I personally know of a couple of very similar aged 997.1 GT3s that went bang due to the conrod failure-has anyone got any more info on this? Was it pot luck, a bad batch, anyone know of any engine numbers? I suspect there’s no way of knowing but thought I’d ask anyway. I’d like to do another engine stroker eventually but not because of a failure! Jeez! This threads a blast from the past! Nick Ramsay (nxi20) and Ade (Keep it Lit) are the boys to speak about regarding tuning and tweaking the Mezger engine as they have done it all. God only knows how many miles Nick has done on the 'ring now! As a side note, I bought the 997.1 GT3, had it for 6 years and did over 30,000 miles with 90% of them on driving tours in Europe. Not once did I ever experience any trouble with engine reliability or problems with Conrods or anything else. They are amazing cars but a proper diff rebuild and a geo setup makes them even better.

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Yes I’m still in touch with Nick as he’s in our GT3 WhatsApp group-great guy. Ade I’ve lost touch with and haven’t seen him nor his RS at any tracks recently.

Slippydiff said: Hope you are well my friend

v8ksn said: Hope you are well my friend All good here thanks You ? It's a quiet time of the year to be posting/asking about 997 Mezger engines. Everyone's been or is on holiday enjoying the exceptional weather here and abroad. Come the Autumn and longer, darker evenings/nights they'll be plenty of responses to this question. FWiW, having had a couple of them (but three 997 engines if you count the Cup engine in the ZanziCup) they're pretty much bullet proof. Likewise the 996 versions. If you want solid numbers on rod failures, I'd give Mike at Sports and Classic a call, and put a post on the Rennlist 997GT3 forum. Those two sources should give you a pretty good indication as to how commonplace the issue is. But from my perspective (FWiW) it's a non-event. If it was, it would be well documented on the PH Porsche forum, Rennlist etc etc, and every buyers guide that's been written in the past 15 years would have mentioned it.

Slippydiff said: But from my perspective (FWiW) it's a non-event. If it was, it would be well documented on the PH Porsche forum, Rennlist etc etc, and every buyers guide that's been written in the past 15 years would have mentioned it. It was Matt at Fearnsport who first told me about it, Cunno’s car was one of the two I know about that had had this specific failure. The other one is up for sale on autotrader and specifically mentions it… http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2025081755...

PRO5T said: It was Matt at Fearnsport who first told me about it, Cunno’s car was one of the two I know about that had had this specific failure. The other one is up for sale on autotrader and specifically mentions it… http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2025081755... Speak to Cunno, Matt told me he had a high-speed spin at Silverstone but didn't "In a spin, both feet in", at least that was my understanding. I'm sure J will clarify. That car had 480hp after Matt built it into a 3.8 with cams, I drove it with Ade in the passenger seat on the roads around Oulton Park IIRC, it was a quick old thing

Slippydiff said: PRO5T said: It was Matt at Fearnsport who first told me about it, Cunno’s car was one of the two I know about that had had this specific failure. The other one is up for sale on autotrader and specifically mentions it… http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2025081755... Speak to Cunno, Matt told me he had a high-speed spin at Silverstone but didn't "In a spin, both feet in", at least that was my understanding. I'm sure J will clarify. That car had 480hp after Matt built it into a 3.8 with cams, I drove it with Ade in the passenger seat on the roads around Oulton Park IIRC, it was a quick old thing Yes I drove it out of Fearnsport when I was looking last time, in that instance I bought the Manthey 3.9 996.2 instead. Your story about the spin is maybe correct now you mention it, maybe it wasn’t Jc’s car that failed. When I think about it, when Porsche put a new engine in he rebuilt it at 40k miles because of the bad engine theory (into 3.8) in case it was affected by the bad batch. I sent him a message this morning, I’ll see if he gets back to me…

PRO5T said: It was Matt at Fearnsport who first told me about it, Cunno’s car was one of the two I know about that had had this specific failure. The other one is up for sale on autotrader and specifically mentions it… http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2025081755... That is Cunno's old car though, no? Jon moved on to a 991.2

s_mcneil said: That is Cunno's old car though, no? Jon moved on to a 991.2 No idea, been out of the GT3 scene for 8 years now. I thought JC's car had KW or Moton coilovers. From memory the car had two engine builds at least 10 years ago. The second due to aforementioned spin I thought. No air-conditioned crankcases, but possibly low compression due to jumped timing and piston /valve contact. The cam manufacturer provided little or no information on the cam specs/installing/timing them. I watched as Matt "worked it out for himself" (as he was want to do) and know he was well chuffed when it produced 478hp on the rollers.

Says the 3.8 (by Matt) was last year though so think the timings might be off in the advert.

s_mcneil said: That is Cunno's old car though, no? Jon moved on to a 991.2 No, Cunno’s was on over 90k miles when he sold it (and second engine rebuild!)

Slippydiff said: Speak to Cunno, Matt told me he had a high-speed spin at Silverstone but didn't "In a spin, both feet in", at least that was my understanding. I'm sure J will clarify. That car had 480hp after Matt built it into a 3.8 with cams, I drove it with Ade in the passenger seat on the roads around Oulton Park IIRC, it was a quick old thing Sorry Henry Wrong again Con rod failed at Donny, down back straight under power. The spin at Silly sucked the failed cat material into the engine even though it never stalled. And yes I did get both feet in

PRO5T said: Yes I drove it out of Fearnsport when I was looking last time, in that instance I bought the Manthey 3.9 996.2 instead. Your story about the spin is maybe correct now you mention it, maybe it wasn’t Jc’s car that failed. When I think about it, when Porsche put a new engine in he rebuilt it at 40k miles because of the bad engine theory (into 3.8) in case it was affected by the bad batch. I sent him a message this morning, I’ll see if he gets back to me… No Craig not correct

s_mcneil said: That is Cunno's old car though, no? Jon moved on to a 991.2 Not my car

FL Racing said: No Craig not correct I (obviously) don’t have a great memory for the details! I did send you a PM on 911uk this morning but if you have any more intel on the likelihood of any 997.1 engines going pop through no user error I’d be great full to hear it or any theories

PRO5T said: I (obviously) don’t have a great memory for the details! I did send you a PM on 911uk this morning but if you have any more intel on the likelihood of any 997.1 engines going pop through no user error I’d be great full to hear it or any theories There is a couple, from memory I recall finding 4 when I searched the internet after mine went. Mine 2 in the states and 1 cup car. So in the big picture like Henry said the odds are in your favour, more risk of buying a unknown damaged car. There were no pre warnings signs, if I was buying a 997 again it wouldn’t put me off just make sure it’s been over serviced buy a well known Indy and plenty of preventive mtce has been carried out. I heard you were buy your mates orange 997RS? Changed your mind? Rumour has it the present owner of my car is looking to sell.

FL Racing said: I heard you were buy your mates orange 997RS? Changed your mind? Rumour has it the present owner of my car is looking to sell. There are many options, up to and including a GT4 RS and lots in between. As much as I love the 997 RS (and I do love that particular car) a cheaper 997.1 with some scope to modify as you did yours still appeals. The problem with a classic RS is I’d feel more tied into keeping it standard, a modern RS why modify when you’ve got a warranty? I know if I had something simple and reliable, well, what would I spend all those hours in the garage over autumn/winter doing? As I often say, a man needs a good hobby-keeps him out of trouble. I’m back in the U.K. this weekend and I’m heading down south to look at various options on Tuesday, culminating at Salon Privé for the following weekend. I hope to have a better idea or solution by then

FL Racing said: Sorry Henry Wrong again Con rod failed at Donny, down back straight under power. The spin at Silly sucked the failed cat material into the engine even though it never stalled. And yes I did get both feet in Wrong again ? Do refresh my memory ... Ah yes, the failed cat substrate, I'd forgotten about that. Well done on both feet in !! Takes some presence of mind to remember to do it when it's all going Pete Tong at speed !! Car sold now ? Is it true you've gone to the dark side Edited by Slippydiff on Monday 18th August 21:05

Slippydiff said: Wrong again ? Do refresh my memory ... Ah yes, the failed cat substrate, I'd forgotten about that. Well done on both feet in !! Takes some presence of mind to remember to do it when it's all going Pete Tong at speed !! Car sold now ? Is it true you've gone to the dark side Edited by Slippydiff on Monday 18th August 21:05 Wasn’t my finest bit of driving, you could of measured my reaction speed with a sun dial. I was chasing Nick R in his 996. 3.9 on slicks which just kept disappearing on the exit of the corners. This was fist time out in the 3.8 and on cup 2s. Got caught out on the bumps at chapel and reacted to slow, should of caught it. Anyway see attached last minute is where the spin is https://youtu.be/PDnHC1NnDtQ?si=EfZzj_HDc9MXdJTp New car is also PDK

FL Racing said: Wasn’t my finest bit of driving, you could of measured my reaction speed with a sun dial. I was chasing Nick R in his 996. 3.9 on slicks which just kept disappearing on the exit of the corners. This was fist time out in the 3.8 and on cup 2s. Got caught out on the bumps at chapel and reacted to slow, should of caught it. Anyway see attached last minute is where the spin is https://youtu.be/PDnHC1NnDtQ?si=EfZzj_HDc9MXdJTp New car is also PDK Lovely that Matt did build a lovely Mezger, that motor sounds sooo sweet. Thought you'd caught that, but the pendulum came out on top (as they often do) !!

Slippydiff said: No idea, been out of the GT3 scene for 8 years now. I thought JC's car had KW or Moton coilovers. From memory the car had two engine builds at least 10 years ago. The second due to aforementioned spin I thought. No air-conditioned crankcases, but possibly low compression due to jumped timing and piston /valve contact. The cam manufacturer provided little or no information on the cam specs/installing/timing them. I watched as Matt "worked it out for himself" (as he was want to do) and know he was well chuffed when it produced 478hp on the rollers. Jon got a replacement stock engine from Porsche when he had conrod failure. Mike at S&C fitted it. Not long after that engine was built as a 3.8 he was doing a 1 mile "how fast" type event & sat on the rev limiter for several second in top to get to the timing beam. Unbeknown to him the 997 doesn't do a fuel cut on the limiter only spark so unburnt fuel went into the cats (which are immediately after the headers) & they melted. It then sucked melted cat material back into the engine on the overrun - new pistons & liner time... Jon had Motons originally & then found (like I did) that AST wouldn't supply rebuild parts. We both dumped Moton & went Nitron R3 - a better damper imho.

FL Racing said: Wasn’t my finest bit of driving, you could of measured my reaction speed with a sun dial. I was chasing Nick R in his 996. 3.9 on slicks which just kept disappearing on the exit of the corners. This was fist time out in the 3.8 and on cup 2s. Got caught out on the bumps at chapel and reacted to slow, should of caught it. Anyway see attached last minute is where the spin is https://youtu.be/PDnHC1NnDtQ?si=EfZzj_HDc9MXdJTp New car is also PDK Ooooh , thats nice !! After our chat at Spa I sold up and have gone the Spyder route. Loving it so far. Totally different vibe to the GT3`s (obvs)

Far Cough said: Ooooh , thats nice !! After our chat at Spa I sold up and have gone the Spyder route. Loving it so far. Totally different vibe to the GT3`s (obvs) Yes sore you did, not long after Spa. CL have already reduced max cover to £100k on Trackdays even though policy renewal December . It’s getting difficult to insure these car at the moment

When a manufacturer integrates a car immobiliser that activates should the airbags trigger (to prevent the car being re-started) ... but integrates it so deeply that the whole front interior of the car needs to be disassembled in order to replace it (there is no re-set) ... you know that the repair costs are going to increase massively, and who wants their car stripped out just to replace a small safety device whilst the physical damage is being repaired ? Check out the Mat Armstrong 992 GT3RS re-builds on Youtube ... ??

I’m not so sure that has any bering on the matter, what kills most insurance claims on high end motors is; Parts availability and cost Jig availability at approved body shop Cost of hire for equivalent while car is repaired Look at MA’s parts price costs, then imagine there’s a twelve week wait just to get the thing on a jig (in all likelihood that is wildly optimistic), then storage during that time and then, hiring a replacement equivalent car for the whole duration. Insurance companies just want it off the books before they even think about pyro fuses (which by the way, are ridiculously expensive via manufacturers if you can’t go down the eBay route like Matt).

For sure it makes it very easy for cars to be written off and broken for parts. I'm sure insurance companies love that ... Hence Matt finding a Pyro Fuse on Ebay .... etc ... To the point, by comparison 997.1 GT3 engine issues (the few there may have been) pale into insignificance. The Pyro Fuse by comparison is self inflicted by Porsche. Edited by ChrisW. on Wednesday 20th August 15:48

FL Racing said: Yes sore you did, not long after Spa. CL have already reduced max cover to £100k on Trackdays even though policy renewal December . It’s getting difficult to insure these car at the moment Just wondering what to move to when they reduce it further to £50k

PRO5T said: Bit of an old thread revival as I’m currently looking at an early 997.1, 2007 model year… I’m wondering if any of the old heads on this thread check in! I personally know of a couple of very similar aged 997.1 GT3s that went bang due to the conrod failure-has anyone got any more info on this? Was it pot luck, a bad batch, anyone know of any engine numbers? I suspect there’s no way of knowing but thought I’d ask anyway. I’d like to do another engine stroker eventually but not because of a failure! By this point we are talking about a car released almost 20 years ago and there are very very few cases of any failures. Considering these cars are designed as track cars for the road they are very likely to have seen a tough life far beyond your average C2. Who knows what event or lack of mechanical sympathy the cars in question went through. Plenty are still kicking around doing endless track days with evidence of very few engine failures on the internet. My car is now over 70k on the clock, the moon miles car must be reaching 200k+ I would put to bed any theory of weak conrods. The things to actually worry about are the coolant line adhesive giving up (so get them pinned if its due heavy track work). Beyond that you will probably experience some RMS weep if the car isn't used regularly. There is always an element of risk, the 996 turbo is also known for being very stout (and shares many components), yet my old mans Turbo generated a loud knocking noise from the bottom end which could not be diagnosed without strip down. A large bill from 9E and she is back purring again....they believe the engine was stripped by Porsche early in life (some signs they had been in there) and something was marginally left out of tolerance for 70k miles..... Edited by shantybeater on Saturday 23 August 10:16

Maybe there was just some wishful thinking value adjustment in this ?? This thread would have resurrected itself many times over had there been a 991.1 level problem ....

ChrisW. said: When a manufacturer integrates a car immobiliser that activates should the airbags trigger (to prevent the car being re-started) ... but integrates it so deeply that the whole front interior of the car needs to be disassembled in order to replace it (there is no re-set) ... you know that the repair costs are going to increase massively, and who wants their car stripped out just to replace a small safety device whilst the physical damage is being repaired ? Check out the Mat Armstrong 992 GT3RS re-builds on Youtube ... ?? I saw that and can't imagine why such a thing was put where it was? And why the pyro fuse anyway? It's not protecting an EV battery bank, surely a more simple cut-off switch like the type a Caterham has would be better in a normal ICE car? It seems to be effective following any Caterham incident I've seen/had where the system needed isolating. I don't have to worry about it as the newest 911 I have in my collection is a 997.1 GT3RS (without any broken rods at the moment) but if I had a GT3 with a pyro fuse and it ever went (and I did a Matt Armstrong style rebuild) then you can guarantee I'd be bypassing the pyro fuse and wouldn't be putting a new one in, I can't figure out why he didn't do that? As far as I can tell you wouldn't need to code it out or anything, you could just delete the pyro fuse and rewire accordingly. Or am I missing something?

My guess is modern vehicle legislation has mandated their fitment. I've no doubt that if you were unfortunate enough to witness someone trapped in a car after an accident, then watched them burn to death in a fuel and/or electrical fire, you'd probably concur with such legislation.

PRO5T said: FL Racing said: I heard you were buy your mates orange 997RS? Changed your mind? Rumour has it the present owner of my car is looking to sell. There are many options, up to and including a GT4 RS and lots in between. As much as I love the 997 RS (and I do love that particular car) a cheaper 997.1 with some scope to modify as you did yours still appeals. The problem with a classic RS is I’d feel more tied into keeping it standard, a modern RS why modify when you’ve got a warranty? I know you’ve got plenty of experience but I reckon you’d feel more special all round in that 997 GT3RS we talked about. Plus you wouldn’t have to worry about values, they’re going to stay fairly solid, whereas a GT4RS is going to depreciate. I’ve done loads of research and as we’ve all concluded I don’t think the 997 RS has any common defects to worry about.

Slippydiff said: My guess is modern vehicle legislation has mandated their fitment. I've no doubt that if you were unfortunate enough to witness someone trapped in a car after an accident, then watched them burn to death in a fuel and/or electrical fire, you'd probably concur with such legislation. You could just say you don’t know if you don’t know Aside from what I saw during multiple tours of Iraq and Afghanistan, the one that sticks most in my mind is Eleuthera 2009 I watched a drunk guy burn to death in his truck after he rolled it on the Queens Highway. Fuel leaked onto hot parts and ignited. Despite trying we couldn’t get him out. The fire was so hot it rendered the fat in his body into liquid and for weeks there were swarms of flies on the road. A pyro fuse wouldn’t have prevented that and certainly putting it in a very inaccessible place wouldn’t have helped. I don’t know the answer any better than you but google says “Do All Cars Have a Pyro Fuse?” “While pyro fuses are common in the automotive industry, they are typically only found in electric and hybrid vehicles. In these applications, they serve as a safety mechanism to disconnect the high-voltage battery in the event of a short circuit, overload or collision event.” So I wondered why they’re found in 911s that aren’t EVs or hybrid and don’t have high voltage battery packs in them. Edited by harryblue on Tuesday 26th August 13:26