Would a GT3 or GT4 RS hit the mark? - Page 4 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Hi All, Was hoping to get some views and opinions from those of you who have been in a similar position. I have been fortunate enough to own a number of exotic cars such as Audi R8 (only the V8 but gated manual!!), 911 Turbo, Ferrari F430, Gallardo LP560, McLarens etc. I will be looking to get my next car in the coming weeks/months and decided that it needs to be a N/A engine'd car. From the various cars owned, I have learnt the ones I enjoyed the most were the N/A cars. I have never owned or driven a GT product Porsche, and the GT3 or GT4 RS models in particular have always been intriguing. I don't track my cars, and only use them on extended sunny/dry weekend drives out. My usual list of requirements is that as it is strictly a weekend toy, it has to through a combination of its looks, presence, sound and drive feel special and a sense of occasion every time I take it out. My budget will probably be around £110-115k so I am thinking if I am patient and wait a few weeks till winter I should be able to get into either a private buy 991.1 GT3 RS, a GT4 RS (WS), or perhaps a 991.2 GT3 (although I prefer the more aggressive styling of the RS cars - in order to hit the looks/presence requirement!). My question to others that have been in a similar situation where you have owned more traditional supercar or exotic brands, when making the switch to a Porsche GT product how has the experience been for you? I have no doubt they are just as capable and arguable even more so, but given I don't touch the edges of the potential performance of most of the cars I have owned given I don't track them, do they still feel as special or give that real sense of occasion when walking upto, sitting in and then driving, in the same way you get when doing so in the usual thoroughbred supercar suspects like a McLaren/Ferrari/Lamborghini etc?

I’m about to swap out of my AM DBSS into a 992 GT3 manual. First Porsche for me and it was a case of a massive itch needing a scratch…I can’t tell you how much I enjoyed the test drive I had in the car. The engine in these is masterful and a true joy to behold. I preferred the looks of the GT3 over the 4RS and having spoken to other people the general consensus was the 4RS is brilliant but too loud inside given where the intakes are positioned. I have a 675LT Spider as well and I’m pretty sure the GT3 is going to give me as much enjoyment just because it’s a totally different proposition. Also the more advanced tech in the 992 was another important factor. I hope to take it on track too so it’ll be getting used as intended.

Evening, good choices! I was similar to you, my first “Supercar” was a 991 gt3 which I regretfully sold and bought a McLaren & Ferrari over a 3 year period. I always regretted selling the GT car and went back into one nearly 2 years ago (991.1 gt3rs) and absolutely love it! The raw sound and mechanical feel you just don’t get with Ferrari or McLaren in my opinion. Mines just gone on the market due to house renovations I will buy another though in a couple of years.

To me the Ferraris feel more special and more of a sense of occasion car than the RS Porsches. my Porsche was more fun to drive on the road though, largely due to the manual transmission. I usually picked the Ferrari keys for the special feeling and the Porsche ones to get my manual fix and for the more race car feel of the car. Never owned a McLaren so can’t opine on those. Those cars were a 997 RS and a Scuderia, so not modern versions of the brands. I did sell the Scuderia and still regret it to this day - was a stupid decision.

I have never owned a Mclaren or Ferrari, but have a 992 Turbo S, an R8 v10+ and 718 Spyder RS in the stable currently. For me the RS, hands down, is best to drive and has the biggest sense of occasion. But utimately this is such a personal thing, only you can decide. This post is relevant and well worth reading.

BlackR8 said: I don't track my cars, and only use them on extended sunny/dry weekend drives out. This sentence stands out to me. I had a similar GT itch and went for a vanilla/cooking (by comparison to what you’re considering) 981 GT4 clubsport. Plenty of occasion and theatre with the buckets, harnesses and cage; exquisite gearshift and pedal weights; otherworldly grip. But it’s really a track car that can be used on the road, rather than a road car that can be used on track if you see what I mean. Over time the noise (great in the early stages of ownership) and harsh ride (great on a smooth surface) became wearing and ultimately not that enjoyable. It’s was certainly a box worth ticking, and I don’t regret buying it. But I don’t regret selling it either.

Hedgeman said: I have never owned a Mclaren or Ferrari, but have a 992 Turbo S, an R8 v10+ and 718 Spyder RS in the stable currently. For me the RS, hands down, is best to drive and has the biggest sense of occasion. But utimately this is such a personal thing, only you can decide. This post is relevant and well worth reading. Really like the Spyder RS, great looking car if it had the manual option I’d have seriously considered one ….how do you find the roof?

RSbandit said: Really like the Spyder RS, great looking car if it had the manual option I d have seriously considered one .how do you find the roof? I like my manuals too, but the engine and close ratio gearing really suits the PDK gearbox, definitely don't be put off. The roof is an easy job with 2 people, probably about 3 minutes. Solo it's a faff, particularly rolling it correctly so it's tight and no creases for stowage. But all that said, if I ever had to downsize my car collection, other than keeping a practical vehicle out of necessity, this would be last to go. I will never voluntarily sell it.

Thanks all, very useful input. From my experience I found that the more capable or all rounder a car was the less exciting it was actually to drive on the public roads unless there was something else that made it still feel special and enjoyable. For example the McLarens were amazingly capable but that made them a bit 'too good' unless doing crazy speeds if that makes sense, and the engine/exhaust character was not a patch on say the N/A Ferrari or Lamborghini, but it was actually the looks and the drama with the doors going up etc that made up for that sense of occasion requirement. Given I have never tried or owned a GT it might be just a case of a itch that just needs to be scratched, like has been the scenario for many others that have commented. I am leaning towards a GT4 RS as my logic is that everything that probably makes it impractical for the road (deafening noise, hard suspension etc), will probably be what makes it feel different/special for that 1 day a week blast on a Sunday morning. My slight apprehension is that the looks/presence and that intangible feeling the true supercar brands give you won't be the same but I am hoping the drive itself will make up for this. Almost the opposite of my experience with the McLarens.

BlackR8 said: Thanks all, very useful input. From my experience I found that the more capable or all rounder a car was the less exciting it was actually to drive on the public roads unless there was something else that made it still feel special and enjoyable. For example the McLarens were amazingly capable but that made them a bit 'too good' unless doing crazy speeds if that makes sense, and the engine/exhaust character was not a patch on say the N/A Ferrari or Lamborghini, but it was actually the looks and the drama with the doors going up etc that made up for that sense of occasion requirement. Given I have never tried or owned a GT it might be just a case of a itch that just needs to be scratched, like has been the scenario for many others that have commented. I am leaning towards a GT4 RS as my logic is that everything that probably makes it impractical for the road (deafening noise, hard suspension etc), will probably be what makes it feel different/special for that 1 day a week blast on a Sunday morning. My slight apprehension is that the looks/presence and that intangible feeling the true supercar brands give you won't be the same but I am hoping the drive itself will make up for this. Almost the opposite of my experience with the McLarens. Just go and drive one. Having had porsche, ferrari, McLaren then i'd strongly suggest trying a Vantage 4.0 - with its Mercedes V8 it's an absolutely mental car for a Sunday thrash. There are some very good Spyder RS and GT4RS deals about, but id wait till January when they will be 10-15% lower....

Spyder is two cars in one - roof off / on. The smaller size of the cayster platform is viewed by many as a plus. The SRS is softer vs GT4RS which might be a plus.

RSbandit said: Really like the Spyder RS, great looking car if it had the manual option I d have seriously considered one .how do you find the roof? For me it would be Spyder RS or 991.2 GT3. Both great cars. Given your use I wouldn’t give the roof on the Spyder a second thought, I think as an owner you’d get used to it fairly quickly. I’ve owned a manual 9991.2 GT3 since new…nothing that’s come out since has really improved on it. They’re awesome cars. The engine is a masterpiece and it’s only in the 991.2 that it was produced without a GPF (early 991.2 RS’s were also pre GPF)

bennno said: Just go and drive one. Having had porsche, ferrari, McLaren then i'd strongly suggest trying a Vantage 4.0 - with its Mercedes V8 it's an absolutely mental car for a Sunday thrash. There are some very good Spyder RS and GT4RS deals about, but id wait till January when they will be 10-15% lower.... I agree a drive is a must as if it is anything like people talk and review it, I expect this may be the deciding factor where I may be willing to overlook the lack of visual and road presence drama vs the traditional supercars. The Spyder RS is not really an option, as I am not one to take the hood down. I owned a couple of Mac Spiders and they were totally wasted on me I have driven extensively a Vantage V8, and I assume the Mercedes equivalent is not too different. They are great examples of where in my personal experience the drivetrain whilst good, did not make up for the lack of visual drama/specialness. I am hoping a GT product Porsche driving experience will be a step on from the engine in those cars. My Porsche experience so far has been that of owning a 911 Turbo, and a regular cooking 911 Carrera albeit with the aerokit etc. Truth is that I found both of those cars pretty uneventful and lacked the sense of occasion that sits at the top of my requirements.

BlackR8 said: bennno said: Just go and drive one. Having had porsche, ferrari, McLaren then i'd strongly suggest trying a Vantage 4.0 - with its Mercedes V8 it's an absolutely mental car for a Sunday thrash. There are some very good Spyder RS and GT4RS deals about, but id wait till January when they will be 10-15% lower.... I agree a drive is a must as if it is anything like people talk and review it, I expect this may be the deciding factor where I may be willing to overlook the lack of visual and road presence drama vs the traditional supercars. The Spyder RS is not really an option, as I am not one to take the hood down. I owned a couple of Mac Spiders and they were totally wasted on me I have driven extensively a Vantage V8, and I assume the Mercedes equivalent is not too different. They are great examples of where in my personal experience the drivetrain whilst good, did not make up for the lack of visual drama/specialness. I am hoping a GT product Porsche driving experience will be a step on from the engine in those cars. My Porsche experience so far has been that of owning a 911 Turbo, and a regular cooking 911 Carrera albeit with the aerokit etc. Truth is that I found both of those cars pretty uneventful and lacked the sense of occasion that sits at the top of my requirements. The latest 4.0 Mercedes engined vantage is very different from what came before - is it that which you have driven? The Porsche, especially gt4rs is based on the Boxster architecture if 2012 so won’t feel as exotic as others you’ve mentioned - it’s principally a car for the track.

BlackR8 said: bennno said: Just go and drive one. Having had porsche, ferrari, McLaren then i'd strongly suggest trying a Vantage 4.0 - with its Mercedes V8 it's an absolutely mental car for a Sunday thrash. There are some very good Spyder RS and GT4RS deals about, but id wait till January when they will be 10-15% lower.... I agree a drive is a must as if it is anything like people talk and review it, I expect this may be the deciding factor where I may be willing to overlook the lack of visual and road presence drama vs the traditional supercars. The Spyder RS is not really an option, as I am not one to take the hood down. I owned a couple of Mac Spiders and they were totally wasted on me I have driven extensively a Vantage V8, and I assume the Mercedes equivalent is not too different. They are great examples of where in my personal experience the drivetrain whilst good, did not make up for the lack of visual drama/specialness. I am hoping a GT product Porsche driving experience will be a step on from the engine in those cars. My Porsche experience so far has been that of owning a 911 Turbo, and a regular cooking 911 Carrera albeit with the aerokit etc. Truth is that I found both of those cars pretty uneventful and lacked the sense of occasion that sits at the top of my requirements. I wouldn't rule out the Spyder until you've driven one. As mentioned somewhere above it's more compliant than the 4RS. Still very firm but much much more suited to the road. It'll probably drive better than most cars that have been mentioned here, and it's not short of road presence. And you could just leave the hood on. Suggest you try one. They're light years away from something like a 992 Turbo. Enjoy the search

Hedgeman said: I have never owned a Mclaren or Ferrari, but have a 992 Turbo S, an R8 v10+ and 718 Spyder RS in the stable currently. For me the RS, hands down, is best to drive and has the biggest sense of occasion. But utimately this is such a personal thing, only you can decide. This post is relevant and well worth reading. A R8 V10+ is a scratch I haven't itched yet so it is interesting you say the SRS is the biggest sense of occasion for you compare to having something with that epic Lambo V10 behind your head. It is interesting how so many on this thread have suggested the Spyder RS and for the reasons mentioned I didn't even have it in the running, but I may need to revisit this. This may be an unpopular view, but I don't think it looks great with the roof up (roof down yes it is a pretty thing!). I think I will start with a drive in the GT4 RS, and see how I get on. Do people think it would be realistic this winter to get into a sensible miles WP GT4 RS for £110-115k based on a private buy? I can see dealers are selling non-WP cars already in this range right now. p.s. started going through that Ferrarchat thread, makes for an interesting read. Edited by BlackR8 on Wednesday 17th September 12:58

BlackR8 said: A R8 V10+ is a scratch I haven't itched yet so it is interesting you say the SRS is the biggest sense of occasion for you compare to having something with that epic Lambo V10 behind your head. Yes the v10 is epic, and puts the engine in my turbo S to shame by any measure other than outright thrust (and even then, there is barely a difference). The flat 6 in the SRS doesn't burble and pop like the v10 and its mostly induction noise, but that noise and the response are just spell binding, and make it more charismatic than the v10. As many have pointed out, this is the best application of porsche's motorsport engine for visceral experience. But the whole car with WP, half painted bonnet, all the carbon, the custom aero on the bodywork all add to the occasion. It certainly gets more attention than the R8. I think its definitely worth looking for a high spec one given your requirements - WP, custom stitching, colour coded instruments, painted wheels, carbon all lift the car even if they don't alter the dynamics.

Hedgeman said: Yes the v10 is epic, and puts the engine in my turbo S to shame by any measure other than outright thrust (and even then, there is barely a difference). The flat 6 in the SRS doesn't burble and pop like the v10 and its mostly induction noise, but that noise and the response are just spell binding, and make it more charismatic than the v10. As many have pointed out, this is the best application of porsche's motorsport engine for visceral experience. But the whole car with WP, half painted bonnet, all the carbon, the custom aero on the bodywork all add to the occasion. It certainly gets more attention than the R8. I think its definitely worth looking for a high spec one given your requirements - WP, custom stitching, colour coded instruments, painted wheels, carbon all lift the car even if they don't alter the dynamics. Yes totally agree on spec. The spec I am going to go for is WP (with cage), PCCB's, lift, and ideally the mag wheels to make sure it again adds something that extra bit special to the mix. I like the coloured wheels too so something in the gold or indigo blue would be nice. I had a similar experience with a Turbo and having spent time either owning, or being a passenger in most of the range 996, 997, and latest 992 they all lack that engine character or drama that the V10 or generally speaking any N/A engine offers hence my preference. I haven't really followed the market for the 4RS, do you think it would be realistic to get into one for £110-115k (I know this is cystal ball stuff) but would be interested to hear peoples thoughts on this.

I thought there was a 4RS being discussed on here for c 115k not that long ago. From memory it had some Martini stickers or sth similar on it that were then removed.

Bargain, no excuses. Buy now.

TDT said: Bargain, no excuses. Buy now. Where do we think these will settle? Wasn t that long they were going for overs and >£200k

£70-£80k? A bit like early 911 GT3s They’re not even as rare as say a 996 GT3 so no reason to stay at these prices surely.

bennno said: Where do we think these will settle? Wasn t that long they were going for overs and >£200k They were ridiculously 200k asking at the start of production when people were cashing in. RRP at launch was 108k and last RRP before end of production was £125k... To understand depreciation you need to look at each car individually vs it as new price for its model year and then take into account its mileage so the current 'value' range is probably a 30k spread between 110-140k.. with some brand new unregistered cars priced above this. 718RS offer GT3 level performance at much less cost(running and servicing) whilst being new(err, lower mileage and mostly all under some level of warranty still. They are already a performance bargain. Anyway... back to the driving thread for me...

718 GT4RS - £70K 718 GT4 - 40/50K 981 GT4 - 40/50K

I can’t get my head around why one would buy a Boxster or cayman, with a body kit, over a GT3. They’re not in the same league. Buy a winged 992 GT3 and enjoy.

maz8062 said: I can t get my head around why one would buy a Boxster or cayman, with a body kit, over a GT3. They re not in the same league. Buy a winged 992 GT3 and enjoy. https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/27gm1k22mrk8 718 GT4 RS vs 991.2 GT3 https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/sfr0kgcbsnge and vs 992.1 GT3

maz8062 said: I can t get my head around why one would buy a Boxster or cayman, with a body kit, over a GT3. They re not in the same league. Buy a winged 992 GT3 and enjoy. I have been out of the Porsche world for a fair bit, is this a view fairly common on how the GT4 RS was received and perceived in Porsche circles? The reason I am considering it personally is that I am a fan of the aggressive styling on the RS models (GT3 or GT4) so really its a toss between 991 GT3 RS or GT4 RS rather than any of the GT3 models. The styling goes someway to address the looks/presence requirement in my list of wants.

Jones the cat said: 718 GT4RS - £70K 718 GT4 - 40/50K 981 GT4 - 40/50K £70k feels a bit low? That suggests a 50% drop from its list price? From what I can see of whats on sale, the GT3 and GT3 RS models regardless of age 991.1, 991.2, etc seem sit around 70% of list price if not more. Is the GT4 RS expected to buck this trend due to well being a Cayman?

BlackR8 said: Jones the cat said: 718 GT4RS - £70K 718 GT4 - 40/50K 981 GT4 - 40/50K £70k feels a bit low? That suggests a 50% drop from its list price? From what I can see of whats on sale, the GT3 and GT3 RS models regardless of age 991.1, 991.2, etc seem sit around 70% of list price if not more. Is the GT4 RS expected to buck this trend due to well being a Cayman? 981 GT4 50k - 60k 718 GT4 60k - 70k GT4 RS 95k - 120k People have to remember these are the last ICE cayman and there will be a market as long as GT3 stay out of reach for most of us at 120k for a 8 year old car.

Jones the cat said: 718 GT4RS - £70K 718 GT4 - 40/50K 981 GT4 - 40/50K I suspect inflation alone will mean this will never happen. I have been looking at adding a regular GT4 or Spyder (manual) to the fleet, and prices are remaining stubbornly high and close to their original list.

Currently OPC have a 981 GT4 listed at £70k & a 2020 manual GT4 listed at £80k PDK version 2022 GT4 listed about £85k Add to that there is not a huge selection so with the N/A ICE GT4’s production ceased in 2023 & RS’s ceasing now i think those price ranges with demand & inflation and no new supply look unlikely At the end of the day pure economics of supply & demand will play out and it will be what ever it is but 10 years on 981 GT4’s are virtually selling close to list price

Augustash said: Currently OPC have a 981 GT4 listed at £70k & a 2020 manual GT4 listed at £80k PDK version 2022 GT4 listed about £85k Add to that there is not a huge selection so with the N/A ICE GT4 s production ceased in 2023 & RS s ceasing now i think those price ranges with demand & inflation and no new supply look unlikely At the end of the day pure economics of supply & demand will play out and it will be what ever it is but 10 years on 981 GT4 s are virtually selling close to list price Opc selling a 718 gt4 for £69k - knowing their profit margins I suspect their car is £60k trade……

maz8062 said: I can t get my head around why one would buy a Boxster or cayman, with a body kit, over a GT3. They re not in the same league. Buy a winged 992 GT3 and enjoy. Arguably with things like CFRP front wings and their aero, the GT4 RS is less standard model with body kit than a regular GT3. Plenty of content on YouTube from people who can actually drive and prefer the dynamics and more visceral experience of the 718 RS cars. Their size also makes them much more suited to many of our roads, particularly compared to a 992. Ultimately this is personal preference and all are great cars, but choices based on labels or badges or "cayman with body kit" style critique say more about the person than about the cars. Edited by Hedgeman on Thursday 18th September 07:19

That’s my point prices are holding up strongly £69k for a 2020 718 GT4 with plastic dash, barely any options & will be 6 years old next March Probably cost about £77k new so has depreciated about 10% which is excellent

bennno said: Opc selling a 718 gt4 for £69k - knowing their profit margins I suspect their car is £60k trade That's a 4 owner, 5.5 year old almost option free car (doesn't even have climate control) selling at 90%+ of original list. Presumably you are making the case *for* high residuals?

Hedgeman said: bennno said: Opc selling a 718 gt4 for £69k - knowing their profit margins I suspect their car is £60k trade That's a 4 owner, 5.5 year old almost option free car (doesn't even have climate control) selling at 90%+ of original list. Presumably you are making the case *for* high residuals? That’s what I already posted below, even allowing for dealer margins that’s a circa 78% residual.

bennno said: Hedgeman said: bennno said: Opc selling a 718 gt4 for £69k - knowing their profit margins I suspect their car is £60k trade That's a 4 owner, 5.5 year old almost option free car (doesn't even have climate control) selling at 90%+ of original list. Presumably you are making the case *for* high residuals? That s what I already posted below, even allowing for dealer margins that s a circa 78% residual. Now they are out of prodtuion with no replacement they won't go much lower.

Much as I’d like to think so, the reality is that for any car produced in the thousands such as a GT4, their values are only going one way. There are only so many people who will either want, or be able to use them in the future as the opportunities for fast road driving become more and more scarce, and not everyone is into track days. Sure seriously low volume special cars will hold their values or appreciate but I really would not bet on volume models doing so. Which is absolutely not a reason not to buy one and enjoy it now of course!

Origami said: Much as I d like to think so, the reality is that for any car produced in the thousands such as a GT4, their values are only going one way. There are only so many people who will either want, or be able to use them in the future as the opportunities for fast road driving become more and more scarce, and not everyone is into track days. Sure seriously low volume special cars will hold their values or appreciate but I really would not bet on volume models doing so. Which is absolutely not a reason not to buy one and enjoy it now of course! Is there a official list anywhere on how many 991 992 and 718 GT RS's were made? I heard on a couple of review videos that they are making upto 7000 GT4RS worldwide which does feel like a lot.

Yes I have a figure of 7,000 GT4 RS. I think it’s around 10,000 991.1 GT3’s and a similar number of .2 GT3s So none of these are remotely rare, certainly not like the 996 and 997 GT3 let alone the 997 4.0, so fantastic as they are it really don’t think it’s realistic to expect them to hold their value long term let alone appreciate. The next generation of drivers are not likely to include the same number of petrol heads with EV’s, uber, robo taxis etc.

Origami said: Yes I have a figure of 7,000 GT4 RS. I think it s around 10,000 991.1 GT3 s and a similar number of .2 GT3s So none of these are remotely rare, certainly not like the 996 and 997 GT3 let alone the 997 4.0, so fantastic as they are it really don t think it s realistic to expect them to hold their value long term let alone appreciate. The next generation of drivers are not likely to include the same number of petrol heads with EV s, uber, robo taxis etc. You re right of course, but a 991.2 GT3 manual, I predict, will do better than the 4RS over time. There are just too many of those fast whippersnapper Cayman and Boxsters out there. If I were to choose, not being a fan of either, I d go SRS over 4RS. My view is based on seeing lots of them in the flesh at events. Edited by maz8062 on Thursday 18th September 12:11

maz8062 said: I can t get my head around why one would buy a Boxster or cayman, with a body kit, over a GT3. They re not in the same league. Buy a winged 992 GT3 and enjoy. I do think a GT4 is far more than just a Boxster/Cayman with a body kit. However, I do agree with the sentiment that GT3 trumps GT4/GT4RS all day/all week. Simple for me- 996.1/2 GT3 was a poster car when I was at school.

neverlifted said: maz8062 said: I can t get my head around why one would buy a Boxster or cayman, with a body kit, over a GT3. They re not in the same league. Buy a winged 992 GT3 and enjoy. I do think a GT4 is far more than just a Boxster/Cayman with a body kit. However, I do agree with the sentiment that GT3 trumps GT4/GT4RS all day/all week. Simple for me- 996.1/2 GT3 was a poster car when I was at school. Looking at prices a 6-8 year old 991.2 GT3 is not far off the price of a 1-3 year old GT4 RS. Is the consensus that the 991.2 GT3 despite being the older car is still the better buy in terms of residuals?

BlackR8 said: Looking at prices a 6-8 year old 991.2 GT3 is not far off the price of a 1-3 year old GT4 RS. Is the consensus that the 991.2 GT3 despite being the older car is still the better buy in terms of residuals? Almost certainly, but that is more to do with a 7 year car being closer to the bottom of its depreciation curve than a 3 year car. I’m not sure the models would influence that hugely.

I personally think the build number of all the cars post 997 (to a degree even some of the numbers limited cars, just at a different level - something like the 991 Speedster has further to drop imo) will lead to a much lower price floor for cars with mileage on them than people think over time. I'd be hesitant in banking on buyers being around at high(ish) prices for - what is effectively - mass produced cars compared to the predecessors (as usual the exclusion of low mileage collector grade cars applies).

MDL111 said: I personally think the build number of all the cars post 997 (to a degree even some of the numbers limited cars, just at a different level - something like the 991 Speedster has further to drop imo) will lead to a much lower price floor for cars with mileage on them than people think over time. I'd be hesitant in banking on buyers being around at high(ish) prices for - what is effectively - mass produced cars compared to the predecessors (as usual the exclusion of low mileage collector grade cars applies). In theory I would also expect this to happen hence I am happy waiting a couple of months in the hope that the WP pack cars drop a bit more into my budget, and then the drop in value then on is hopefully not too aggressive. What seems to go against this is that even the 991.1 GT3 RS is still 10 years on being advertised today at close to its list price back in 2015-16, so if they are going to fall you have to be waiting a very very long time for this to happen I am guessing.

Jones the cat said: 718 GT4RS - £70K 718 GT4 - 40/50K 981 GT4 - 40/50K No idea what world you're living in, unless we're talking moon miles, owners and crap/base spec/Cat N cars I've yet to see any in that region by some margin.

I recently bought a 4RS over a GT3 for a few reasons. The GT3 is such a big car now, every generation the 911 has just got bigger and bigger, knowing a few people with them one of the common complaints is they're too big for the UK roads now. I've had a few Boxsters/Caymans and always thought they were a super practical car with a frunk and a boot. When looking at GT cars and when out at events, meets there's always a lot of GT3's but never a 4RS or SRS for that matter - I just think there are too many now from the 996 through to 992. I know someone said there are 7000 4RS, but how many GT3's are there across the generations? There's only 1 GT4RS compared to the GT3RS, I'd like to think that counts for something. To the OP, for a weekend car you'd love it, it's a hard ride as standard, it's loud (if you want it to be - no louder than my outgoing GT4 when at cruising speeds).

BlackR8 said: MDL111 said: I personally think the build number of all the cars post 997 (to a degree even some of the numbers limited cars, just at a different level - something like the 991 Speedster has further to drop imo) will lead to a much lower price floor for cars with mileage on them than people think over time. I'd be hesitant in banking on buyers being around at high(ish) prices for - what is effectively - mass produced cars compared to the predecessors (as usual the exclusion of low mileage collector grade cars applies). In theory I would also expect this to happen hence I am happy waiting a couple of months in the hope that the WP pack cars drop a bit more into my budget, and then the drop in value then on is hopefully not too aggressive. What seems to go against this is that even the 991.1 GT3 RS is still 10 years on being advertised today at close to its list price back in 2015-16, so if they are going to fall you have to be waiting a very very long time for this to happen I am guessing. I was thinking more in the long term (call it next 10-20 years). I think all these cars will not be worth a whole lot (relatively speaking) in a decade or two. Stuff like a 997 4.0 RS, 996 RS in original condition or a Carrera GT will continue to appreciate, but all the normal stuff will go the other direction imo (as opposed to the reasoning "well if a low miles 4.0 is worth 2.5 million, then my 997 3.8 RS / 3.6 RS should be worth at least 500k" - don't think that will hold up as there won't be buyers for it at that price. The rich collectors will want the best / rarest and the rest will be bought by people to drive, but those people won't pay a huge premium over something more modern - they'll probably just get whatever the current hybrid 911 is at that time with a warranty, the ability to drive into the city centre etc). Especially when it becomes more and more difficult to enjoy them (arguably even today and it will only get worse). Just buy what you can afford and enjoy it, worry about what it is worth when you sell it - maybe you get lucky, maybe you get unlucky. You won't be able to get that much enjoyment out of a 4RS or SRS over winter in my view (I am depressed as I suspect after this weekend my cars will be pretty much stationary until next April with a few exceptions / lucky breaks re nice weather on a weekend), so I would wait - maybe make an offer on a couple that have been sitting for a while in January in the hope of securing one before the next driving season starts, so you don't lose out on enjoyment.

MDL111 said: I was thinking more in the long term (call it next 10-20 years). I think all these cars will not be worth a whole lot (relatively speaking) in a decade or two. .. sounds rather familiar... like.... when people said that about the 991.1 gt3 and gt3rs in 2015 when it became clear there were...uh, rather a lot of cars.

Have had older GT3s and a 996 GT3RS, and quite a few other cars, and really like my GT4RS. The looks, the sound (when you are on it, otherwise it's not much different to the 718 GT4 I had before). Ride is firm, but not jarringly so, size is great. Don't get to drive it enough so it retains its allure as a weekend toy.

isaldiri said: MDL111 said: I was thinking more in the long term (call it next 10-20 years). I think all these cars will not be worth a whole lot (relatively speaking) in a decade or two. .. sounds rather familiar... like.... when people said that about the 991.1 gt3 and gt3rs in 2015 when it became clear there were...uh, rather a lot of cars. Well, I am wrong until I am right - good that you can’t short the used car market, otherwise I would have lost money It does help the used market that Porsche keeps increasing list prices and options prices/availability of more and more expensive options. I just specced a GT3 for fun and it costs nearly 280k euros, makes a slightly used GT4RS at half that figure look like an absolute bargain.

The op has a shortlist of cars - folks on the internet will have different views; some like the 4RS, others wouldn’t look past a GT3. So, what to do? Get out there and poke stuff, kick tyres, speak to dealers and choose the car that speaks to you. You might even end up with an Aston, AMG GT, NSX, R8 V10, or Cayman GTS 4.0.

maz8062 said: The op has a shortlist of cars - folks on the internet will have different views; some like the 4RS, others wouldn t look past a GT3. So, what to do? Get out there and poke stuff, kick tyres, speak to dealers and choose the car that speaks to you. You might even end up with an Aston, AMG GT, NSX, R8 V10, or Cayman GTS 4.0. Just to update this thread. - Of the list above, the R8 V10 is also on the list but not sure about the others. I did manage to go see and have a short test drive on a GT4 RS. My thoughts: - That engine totally dominates the car and just hearing the rough nature of how it sounds at idle and then changes character through the revs is a pretty special experience I felt instantly at ease in the drivers seat and confident to press on within minutes, I didn't expect this considering its my first time driving a GT Porsche You can feel it is very well built, having come from Ferraris and McLarens in particular it definitely felt a step up in quality The test drive re-affirmed that it is a N/A engine I have been missing in recent years The car felt small and agile, and the closest thing I have driven that feels like a race car for the road. It feels like it constantly wants to be driven hard. On the things to consider - The car did not feel or look like a supercar, more a sports car with a rally edge. There is this intangible theatre and drama that the traditional supercar brands at this price point have which makes you feel like a 10yr old, and that just isn't there with the GT4. The noise in the cabin from the induction mainly whilst entertaining was by the end of the test drive on the verge of giving me a headache, not sure this is just something you get used to but it was certainly full-on Taking it to 9k rpm was a real event and thats when the real excitement of being in this car comes in, but I would guess I would be constantly chasing the red line to get the thrill which could get me into trouble very quickly on public roads! Overall I was really impressed and glad I test drove it as it added a new perspective for me. If the prices do come down into my budget it will remain on my short list. I do need to consider whether the lack of that intangible 'at standstill / or any speed' fizz and theatre that a traditional supercar brand gives will be missed, and if so will that stunning Porsche engine make up for it!

BlackR8 said: Just to update this thread. - Of the list above, the R8 V10 is also on the list but not sure about the others. I did manage to go see and have a short test drive on a GT4 RS. My thoughts: - That engine totally dominates the car and just hearing the rough nature of how it sounds at idle and then changes character through the revs is a pretty special experience I felt instantly at ease in the drivers seat and confident to press on within minutes, I didn't expect this considering its my first time driving a GT Porsche You can feel it is very well built, having come from Ferraris and McLarens in particular it definitely felt a step up in quality The test drive re-affirmed that it is a N/A engine I have been missing in recent years The car felt small and agile, and the closest thing I have driven that feels like a race car for the road. It feels like it constantly wants to be driven hard. On the things to consider - The car did not feel or look like a supercar, more a sports car with a rally edge. There is this intangible theatre and drama that the traditional supercar brands at this price point have which makes you feel like a 10yr old, and that just isn't there with the GT4. The noise in the cabin from the induction mainly whilst entertaining was by the end of the test drive on the verge of giving me a headache, not sure this is just something you get used to but it was certainly full-on Taking it to 9k rpm was a real event and thats when the real excitement of being in this car comes in, but I would guess I would be constantly chasing the red line to get the thrill which could get me into trouble very quickly on public roads! Overall I was really impressed and glad I test drove it as it added a new perspective for me. If the prices do come down into my budget it will remain on my short list. I do need to consider whether the lack of that intangible 'at standstill / or any speed' fizz and theatre that a traditional supercar brand gives will be missed, and if so will that stunning Porsche engine make up for it! So, exactly line with what I posted below on the. 17th of September then…..

bennno said: So, exactly line with what I posted below on the. 17th of September then .. Indeed, I guess I had to get up close and personal and drive it to decide for myself. I do think it was more entertaining than the Vantage / Merc GT from my limited experience.

BlackR8 said: Indeed, I guess I had to get up close and personal and drive it to decide for myself. I do think it was more entertaining than the Vantage / Merc GT from my limited experience. Go and drive a 4.0 vantage, make sure it’s in sport + or track mode, you will buy it.

bennno said: BlackR8 said: Indeed, I guess I had to get up close and personal and drive it to decide for myself. I do think it was more entertaining than the Vantage / Merc GT from my limited experience. Go and drive a 4.0 vantage, make sure it s in sport + or track mode, you will buy it. I’ll raise you an AMG GT with the same engine. In my view, for the OP’s budget, there’s no car that has the same road presence and rarity of one of these cars. They sound good as well.

I know it is 30k above your budget, but left field idea .... proper n/a engine supercar experience in spades you don't do track days depreciation will likely be low, so that should hopefully make up for the higher entry price https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/18800221

I have driven the Vantage 4.0 (the one with the Merc GT engine) extensively and whilst it was fun it didn't do it for me (I am looking for a N/A engined car only). On the Aventador yes this is a total poster car and I can guess nothing would match it for theatre and drama, but I just couldn't live with a single clutch box again. Having had a Ferrari F1 and Lambo E-Gear in the past, as much as I loved the N/A engines in both marques I just found the single clutch boxes way too clunky in all situations aside from when when you are fully on it.

BlackR8 said: I have driven the Vantage 4.0 (the one with the Merc GT engine) extensively and whilst it was fun it didn't do it for me (I am looking for a N/A engined car only). On the Aventador yes this is a total poster car and I can guess nothing would match it for theatre and drama, but I just couldn't live with a single clutch box again. Having had a Ferrari F1 and Lambo E-Gear in the past, as much as I loved the N/A engines in both marques I just found the single clutch boxes way too clunky in all situations aside from when when you are fully on it. As you have probably already worked out, a normally aspirated engine confines your choices to a V10 R8, a Porsche GT car, a Lambo (ruled out) or an AM V12 Vantage S (manual, if you don t want a single clutch automated transmission). If you rule out manuals (good luck to anyone who claims to be smoother and faster shifting a manual than a single clutch automated manual - I m sure such people exist but they are going to very rare) and Lambos, you ve self-selected a Porsche. That noise from the GT4RS: unless you go rapidly deaf, it doesn t become easier to put up with. At least as I said upthread that was my experience in the 981 GT4. However, a mate of mine ran one of those alongside a 991 GT3 (not sure if .1 or .2) for almost a year, and ended up keeping the 4 and selling the 3. Tricky choice. Good luck!

BlackTails said: As you have probably already worked out, a normally aspirated engine confines your choices to a V10 R8, a Porsche GT car, a Lambo (ruled out) or an AM V12 Vantage S (manual, if you don t want a single clutch automated transmission). If you rule out manuals (good luck to anyone who claims to be smoother and faster shifting a manual than a single clutch automated manual - I m sure such people exist but they are going to very rare) and Lambos, you ve self-selected a Porsche. That noise from the GT4RS: unless you go rapidly deaf, it doesn t become easier to put up with. At least as I said upthread that was my experience in the 981 GT4. However, a mate of mine ran one of those alongside a 991 GT3 (not sure if .1 or .2) for almost a year, and ended up keeping the 4 and selling the 3. Tricky choice. Good luck! Thanks mate. I think it will come down to a R8 V10 / Huracan or a GT car for me. Never had a 458 but getting a good example for sensible money feels like a bit of a task on that particular marque. On the noise, yes I think if I do sway towards the GT4RS that will probably be something that I will need to carefully consider. It might be an unpopular opinion but my initial thoughts are that whilst very visceral, the combination of induction noise mixed ontop of the exhaust noise wasn't exactly tuneful or pleasant like other N/A cars like a 458 etc.

BlackR8 said: Thanks mate. I think it will come down to a R8 V10 / Huracan or a GT car for me. Never had a 458 but getting a good example for sensible money feels like a bit of a task on that particular marque. On the noise, yes I think if I do sway towards the GT4RS that will probably be something that I will need to carefully consider. It might be an unpopular opinion but my initial thoughts are that whilst very visceral, the combination of induction noise mixed ontop of the exhaust noise wasn't exactly tuneful or pleasant like other N/A cars like a 458 etc. I knew that once you got out there and started poking stuff, you'd quickly discount the Cayman thing. The 911.2 GT3 would be special, but for your budget, you have lots of choice. Matt Armstrong of YT fame has just swapped headers and an exhaust on a 458. The noise, man, the noise. Oh, my.