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Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHFound this in my oil pan...
Leading reported evidence
Fill cooling system
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
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0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
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Read evidence and context
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Filled cooling system and ran until thermostat opened; shut down and after cool down changed oil and filter.
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Suggestion
Change the oil every 6 months and yes continue to check the filters, I wouldn�t spend the money on more analysis until you see something off in the filter.
Leading evidence: 'Fill cooling system' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check filters, i wouldn�t spend the money' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Update: Filled sump with Driven 40 oil and drove 700 miles.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Previous owner had IMSB and RMS changed back in May 2013.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Filled cooling system and ran until thermostat opened; shut down and after cool down changed oil and filter.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Took it out for a spin and it ran just as it had been.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
Check filters, i wouldn�t spend the money
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Reported fixes
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Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
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Suggestion
Change the oil every 6 months and yes continue to check the filters, I wouldn�t spend the money on more analysis until you see something off in the filter.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
38 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Paperclip is for scale. I had just finished R&R of the starter, water pump, thermostat and housing and the coolant expansion tank as well as a few of the radiator hoses. Changed oil opened filter and found ferrous metal bits in the filter element. Sent out for oil analysis and then dropped pan and found these pieces. They too are ferrous.
Anyone have any ideas about what I am looking at?
2003 Carrera Coupe, 56000 miles. November oil analysis numbers were fine.
WOW, someone pushed the RMS seal into the engine and left it there?
That's got to be the worst quality job ever!
I can see how it could happen, but to just leave it!
Probably popped off the spring from the old RMS when they drilled the holes for the removal screws and didn't see it.
Then it flopped around and got caught by the timing chain and chewed it up.
Things like this is what causes the scavenge pumps to lock up when they get sucked into them, then breaks the snout or the timing chain and all hell breaks loose !!
I have seen them in the sump plate before...not good....
So what to do now?
At a minimum u will want to pull the oil pick ups, remove and inspect scavage pumps, remove and inspect main oil pump. I would even consider pulling the cam cover. No guarentee u will get all of it but worth the time considering the cost of a rebuild
Car has been running fine. I went ahead with some cooling system maintenance due to a leaky reservoir. Changed reservoir, water pump, thermostat, a few coolant hoses as well as dragging starter motor. Filled cooling system and ran until thermostat opened; shut down and after cool down changed oil and filter. Found debris in filter element so decided to drop pan and take a look. The spring pieces were the only things in the pan. Sent off for an oil analysis. The November analysis was normal. Previous owner had IMSB and RMS changed back in May 2013.
The spring probably flopped around on the rear of the crankshaft harmlessly since 2013, until the right combination of G-forces/centrifugal forces caused it to sling into the path of the timing chain after November and get chewed to bits...
Your Iron in the recent oil analysis should show this....
This goes to show you why I opted for the Oilvue Analysis that includes the PQI test. The PQI test shows ferrous metal particles that are too BIG for the spectro-analyzer to detect.
Here is a report from 3.4 100k miles engine I bought from a speed shop in NY who pulled it (running fine) from a 1999 C4 that they were doing an LS swap and some Wild Wide Body KIt to.
I could tell the sump plate had never been off, and had a film of soot coating the bottom, but no metal bits, just plastic from the cam pads. BUT you can see the report has normal Iron levels, BUT the PQI is off the chart, meaning heavy ferrous metal that is TOO BIG for the Spectro-Analizer to detect...
I do a review/post of the OILvue Product when I get time...I suspect this engine has a failing IMSB in it with the PQI off the charts..
My take on it is what damage was done has already been done. Clean the debris out and carry on. It probably is minimal, and if it isn�t, you would more than likely know it by now.
Right now I believe I will go ahead and put it back together, fill with Mobil 1 10W/40 and the paper filter element, drive it for 500 miles or so then do another analysis and visual inspection of the sump and filter as well as send off for an oil analysis to both Blackstone and Oilvue. Of course if the engine eats it before then the I will consider a replacement. Someone; convince me otherwise.
I ordered an Oilvue kit today as well as adding 9.5 quarts of DT40 oil and a new oil filter. Started up fine, good oil pressure. Took it out for a spin and it ran just as it had been. Time will tell as I will pull the oil filter and send a sample off after 500 miles or so. Washed it and parked it for the night. I will also monitor oil level after each drive. My daily drive to work and back is around 40 miles with a mix of surface roads and freeway.
It would be interesting to weight the spring-fragments you collected and compare this weight to the one of a complete spring. This may give you a good idea what percentage you got
Holy Shnikeys. Maybe, just maybe, you got lucky and you have no other lasting damage. Like the other folks have said, oil scavenging and timing chains were most at risk, but maybe that is all of it, and if a DME shows you're in spec, you got away with it? I'm crossing my fingers for you.
Update: Filled sump with Driven 40 oil and drove 700 miles. Really pushed the car. So far it has run flawlessly. Good oil pressure at idle and above 4K rpm. Dropped the oil filter housing today and there is not a trace of metal debris after cutting open the filter. Sent a sample off to Oilvue for analysis. I will post findings when I get them.
happy for you. Hopefully your analysis is pretty good too. Because of the particular issues in these cars, I always check the oil from the dipstick and coolant before going on an adventure. Wishing for the best for you.
I�m extremely happy for you. Everything looks great. Also I learned about the formulation of DT 40. They are using boron, that�s an antiwear additive. Their zinc and phosphorus levels are pretty close to Mobil one, but they are adding the extra kick, boron will help anti seizing, will help reduce noise all kinds of things. Their viscosity 14.4 is also higher. Their detergents calcium magnesium are a little low. They gave the acid number but no TBN. When I spoke with them they didn�t disclose that number. That could be the oils weak point. TBn or total base number is a measure of the basicity of oils to neutralize acids produced by remaining fuel. Also TBn indicates detergency and dispersancy of the oil. Keep on running the car. Change the oil every 6 months and yes continue to check the filters, I wouldn�t spend the money on more analysis until you see something off in the filter. Glad you are good.
Well 2600 miles later I changed oil and filter. DT40 oil and NAPA Gold spin on filter. Cut open the filter and the element was spotless. No magical glittery pieces at all. Magnetic drain plug had very little paste on it. Sent off samples to Oilvue and Blackstone. Durametric to be delivered next week. Car still runs fine.
keep on driving. Every so often I check the oil for smell color etc from the dipstick and the coolant for intermix. Another suggestion I would make is to when you change your oil go ahead and clean the maf (mass air flow) meter, you will be surprised how much better the car runs after that. I�m glad for you.
Good stuff. I gave OilVue a try recently too. Received the report but could not find Fuel Dilution value anywhere. Did your report have it or is it provided under another name? I've emailed them to ask but no response.
+1
I
ALWAYS
check my oil every time I fill up.
It's been a habit for decades. (4 decades this May to be more exact)
Full service used to do it back in the 80s, so even though I never went to full service I checked it in self-serve.
I check smell and color and level on ALL my vehicles.
I used to use the paper towels the station provided, but these days they often have none.
I carry a roll of them in my trunks/frunk.
I send off to both Oilvue and Blackstone. Oilvue due to their abiloity to identify larger suspended metal particles and Blackstone as a double check. Blackstone does report fuel dilution of oil.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
