Looking at building a track car - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Hi Just looking to build a track car starting with an early boxster just for fun and doing what I can to keep cost down, what are your thoughts

Hi Ruane, unless it simply has to be a Porsche, I'd say avoid a Porsche if keeping costs down is a priority, especially a Boxster, given their known engine weaknesses. Standard oil system isn't really upto brutal track work. You can have a huge amount of fun in something much cheaper. Cheaper on petrol, cheaper engines if you blow it up, cheaper bumpers and panels if you bump it, etc, etc. I personally have a hoot in good fwd hatches. 306Gti6s are good, as are Honda Civic Type Rs. Off topic do you still have your 964RS? I was chatting to you at Cars in the Park a few years back.

Not got the rs now sold it a couple of years back just looking at something not so expensive to use for fun had a vx220 just looking at options

Ah right, well like I say for cheap track thrills, I wouldn't be touching anything porsche, or anything remotely heavy either. Loads of better options out there for budget fun. Just my 2p. Weight = £££s on track, as I'm sure you know.

I would like a boxster and there seems to be plenty that have been stripped out and set up for track, I would like to do most of the work myself I remember Simon Butterworth having 1 with roll cage and lightweight body panels.

They as still quite a lot of money but there is only one track day toy to have, The Ariel Atom

ruane said: I would like a boxster and there seems to be plenty that have been stripped out and set up for track, I would like to do most of the work myself I remember Simon Butterworth having 1 with roll cage and lightweight body panels. I don't know much about Simon's car but it's set up for sprinting (where you drive a short 40-70 second run maybe 4-6 times over a 1 day event) and it's pretty safe to say he has the budget to prepare and run it properly. I've raced a 1999 Boxster S belonging to Hartech for 2 seasons and was involved from before they purchased the donor car. That was a very straight and tidy 150k mile road car bought off eBay for around £4k. I drove it the day it arrived and it was very tired indeed and you wouldn't have wanted to drive it to a distant race track, never mind around it. They've done a great job building and running it and it's had a 100% reliability record but the budget was there to do it. The suspension cost a LOT more than the car did, it's got an Accusump oil system to protect against oil surge (as well as a bigger/ baffled sump) which definitely helps and always comes into use (the cylinder/reservoir is warm/hot after each track session). It is great to drive and capable of some very decent lap times so I'm sure if you prepare one well you'll really enjoy it, but even for a bare bones budget one expect to spend over £15k and a LOT of your own time to get a basically OK car (perhaps with the Gaz dampers,etc) and take the risk on the engine. For one like the Hartech cars you'd double that budget and still not get close. If it were me with a £10-15k budget I'd get the best 944 ex-race car I could - great fun and nearly as quick as most people would get in a low budget Boxster S, with lower running costs and less risk of an engine failure (and lower cost to rectify).

Your current car's not a bad shout (built with track performance in mind), what makes you think the boxster would be better? Dunc.

May also be worth talking to Brian at Jasmine Motorsport in Colne. Jasmine have been involved with Boxster racing this past year and have, I think, put a couple of cars together themselves.

ruane said: I would like a boxster and there seems to be plenty that have been stripped out and set up for track, I would like to do most of the work myself I remember Simon Butterworth having 1 with roll cage and lightweight body panels. I don't see why that should be too much of a problem, provided you steer clear of "tuning" for more power. The impression I have is not so much that Boxster engines are weak, but that they don't take kindly to being abused or asked to give more than they have in standard trim. On track the quickest car will always be the lightest one belonging to the person who spent the most money. If you just want a bit of fun you should be fine.

Ozzie Osmond said: ruane said: I would like a boxster and there seems to be plenty that have been stripped out and set up for track, I would like to do most of the work myself I remember Simon Butterworth having 1 with roll cage and lightweight body panels. I don't see why that should be too much of a problem, provided you steer clear of "tuning" for more power. The impression I have is not so much that Boxster engines are weak, but that they don't take kindly to being abused or asked to give more than they have in standard trim. On track the quickest car will always be the lightest one belonging to the person who spent the most money. If you just want a bit of fun you should be fine. Not sure that just spending money is the surefire route to quick lap times. A degree of driving acumen could also prove useful methinks!

Ozzie Osmond said: ruane said: I would like a boxster and there seems to be plenty that have been stripped out and set up for track, I would like to do most of the work myself I remember Simon Butterworth having 1 with roll cage and lightweight body panels. I don't see why that should be too much of a problem, provided you steer clear of "tuning" for more power. The impression I have is not so much that Boxster engines are weak, but that they don't take kindly to being abused or asked to give more than they have in standard trim. On track the quickest car will always be the lightest one belonging to the person who spent the most money. If you just want a bit of fun you should be fine. Nothing wrong with a bit of mild tuning and much of it is very DIY'able. My last Boxster had stainless manifolds and exhaust, 996 throttle body and a remap. It made more power more noise, had the same rev limit and was no more or less reliable. The current one is getting the same treatment with the addition of sports cats.

anonymous said: [redacted] Absolutely. Engine tuning should be the last on the list - brakes, tyres, suspension, harness and seats will provide much greater rewards.

You have both missed the context of the quotation where statements like 'steer clear of tuning for power' and 'Boxster engines are weak, but that they don't take kindly to being abused or asked to give more than they have in standard trim'. Nobody was advocating that engine tuning was a must have but it was implied that not only is it a waste of time but detrimental to the car. I simply write that that is not my experience.

Don't run too much grip*, make sure it has good fluid in and pads. Spend the money on either instruction or more track days. * adding grip will cause more problems than good. Suspension components will be much more stressed, as will brakes. Sure you'll go faster, but as has been mentioned, is a lap time really important on a track day? Fun is important and driving is fun. The more of a challenge, the more fun. Run a higher power to grip ratio rather than the other way around if you're sticking with the car you've got and don't get caught up in building a track car. For me if you want a car that can do both, it's an Elise (not an Exige which is way more compromised on the road). More track biased I'd personally go Caterham, which I consider to be the perfect all round track day car. More road biased; something like a GT86 on a budget could be interesting, with a lot of cash it's a GT3.

Here's a thought. If you want to know what a Boxster feels like on track, why not buy yourself some time at the Porsche experience centre at Silverstone? Much cheaper than finding you've started with the wrong car. £275 for 90 minutes. http://www.porsche.com/silverstone/en/experience/p...

EARLY Boxster is what the OP is suggesting, as in 986. Not sure PEC run many o' them. Could be wrong mind...

A few questions for the OP When you say "low cost" what do you mean? - £5k, 10k, 20k, 50k? I bet each one of these means "low cost" to someone... Is this a track only car, or a road car that you want to use on the track occasionally? If it's track only, will you trailer it to & from the track or are you keeping it road legal? UK tracks or Spa / Ring etc..? I'm looking to use my 986 Boxster S next year - I did one damp day at Silverstone in November & the main thing it needed was proper seats as the Porsche sports seats are useless. It's got pretty much completely new suspension inc m030 dampers, springs and ARB's. I think it works OK as a road/ track car. I'll also do something about the potential for oil surge, probably fit better baffles. I think the bucket seat actually suits the car on the road now it's stiffer with m030. If I was towing I'd be very tempted by a caterham - makes the whole experience more intense I think. May not be so much fun on wet trackdays though. An ex-racer is also a good option, and there are a few 944's floating round at reasonable prices. I've really enjoyed my 944S2 track car until it broke at Spa but I think the boxster will be quicker. It certainly seems to need a different driving style & I have lots to learn.

If the seats aren't holding you well enough I'd suggest making sure your seatbelt is locked tight. This is easily done on a Boxster - wind the backrest further back than you need it, sharply yank the belt so it locks then wind the backrest forwards.

thegoose said: If the seats aren't holding you well enough I'd suggest making sure your seatbelt is locked tight. This is easily done on a Boxster - wind the backrest further back than you need it, sharply yank the belt so it locks then wind the backrest forwards. .. well up to a point but the 986 sports seats need to be pretty much all the way back & down to work for me. I have the Sparcos already, so for the cost of some brackets it's a tremendous improvement. Removing that layer of padding, + the extra support is a much better setup for my car on the road - it's an occasional car, not a daily commuter car, and I think it's better connected this way.

I think the single biggest change you can make is the seats. Going from squishy normal (even "sports") seats to sensible buckets is a huge change. Bert

I'd wager that thegoose understands the differences between standard seats/inertia reels vis a vis buckets/harnesses...

anonymous said: [redacted] me too.

edh said: thegoose said: If the seats aren't holding you well enough I'd suggest making sure your seatbelt is locked tight. This is easily done on a Boxster - wind the backrest further back than you need it, sharply yank the belt so it locks then wind the backrest forwards. .. well up to a point but the 986 sports seats need to be pretty much all the way back & down to work for me. I have the Sparcos already, so for the cost of some brackets it's a tremendous improvement. Removing that layer of padding, + the extra support is a much better setup for my car on the road - it's an occasional car, not a daily commuter car, and I think it's better connected this way. Have you decided the S2s fate Ed? On the one hand Im tempted by its dampers, but on the other think that itd be a shame to see it dismantled, particularly seeing that it is sound otherwise.

anonymous said: [redacted] I meant that if one has only driven with the seatbelt loose/normal then see how one gets on with it locked before going any further - it's free to try and for some drivers will make enough of a difference initially, before spending upwards of £600 on a pair of seats and brackets. Oh, and when choosing seats, get fibreglass shelled ones not cheap padded metal framed ones.

Fractionally off-topic but relevent to the seat belt thing: has anyone used the 'CG lock' devices which hold an inertia reel in place? Obviously not a full harness, but I'm intrigued to learn of their effectiveness.

FarQue said: Fractionally off-topic but relevent to the seat belt thing: has anyone used the 'CG lock' devices which hold an inertia reel in place? Obviously not a full harness, but I'm intrigued to learn of their effectiveness. Yes, I used a CG lock when I first started tracking with comfort seats. There was a definite improvement in the restraint provided by the lock. As a result of the improvement, I later moved onto racing seats, harnesses, etc.

boxsey said: FarQue said: Fractionally off-topic but relevent to the seat belt thing: has anyone used the 'CG lock' devices which hold an inertia reel in place? Obviously not a full harness, but I'm intrigued to learn of their effectiveness. Yes, I used a CG lock when I first started tracking with comfort seats. There was a definite improvement in the restraint provided by the lock. As a result of the improvement, I later moved onto racing seats, harnesses, etc. Thanks. Interesting.

boxsey said: FarQue said: Fractionally off-topic but relevent to the seat belt thing: has anyone used the 'CG lock' devices which hold an inertia reel in place? Obviously not a full harness, but I'm intrigued to learn of their effectiveness. Yes, I used a CG lock when I first started tracking with comfort seats. There was a definite improvement in the restraint provided by the lock. As a result of the improvement, I later moved onto racing seats, harnesses, etc. They are good but if you're in a car with an electric backrest then I prefer to use the method I suggested instead (which is free too) as it holds you in tightly with the diagonal shoulder strap as well as the lap strap. I'd agree that for a fully track focused car then proper seats is where it's at.

i feel the biggest difference is the harness. buckets without harness only give you a minor improvement conversely, a regular seat with harness (4 point) can hold you much more firmly.

Harness not safe with standard seats either - no holes for the shoulder straps

GC8 said: Have you decided the S2s fate Ed? On the one hand Im tempted by its dampers, but on the other think that itd be a shame to see it dismantled, particularly seeing that it is sound otherwise. Not yet simon. I'm planning a "fix it" or "break it" weekend some time in the spring when it's warmer. Will depend on the need for cash in my car fund by then & how good the boxster is. Logic suggests that I break it as there's at least £5k in parts, and I doubt anyone would pay over 3k for it as a whole, even if it was fixed. The dampers will definitely fetch good money

It wont work with the standard seats, as Ed has said. In fact, itll be downright dangerous!

Thanks for all replies, just looking at a doing most of work myself for fun on track days not competing as I am not good enought for total enjoyment building ect .. Seats harness, strip out full monty

Something else to think about, being as you haven't mentioned cage on that list: I once asked an Audi mechanic who tracks a road going 500bhp S4 (yellow, in case anyone's seen it at Spa) why he didn't have harnesses and he said they're dangerous without a cage, as your head can't move out of the way if there's a impact to the roof.

I have just bought a 911 996 that requires some work, well complete new interior for a start as it is fire damaged

That's begging for a new seat and not a lost else, surely?

Oh yes bodywork fantastic no sun roof C2 55000 miles 3.4 996, however no interior no seats nothing not even a steering wheel need help for parts