GIAC ECU Tuning Results!

I got my car back from Imagine Auto and the GIAC ECU tuning has been completed by Garrett. The car now churns out in the neighborhood of 304-305 HP at the rear wheels in combo with my exhaust and intake. The ECU tuning was alone responsible for around 7HP AFTER the other items had been put into place, if you do just ECU tuning alone you'll get higher HP numbers since some of my gains were already taken up by the exhaust and intake. They (IA and GIAC) took the time to try several combos, with intake, without, without airbox, etc. and the best combo was with the stock airbox using the EVO adapter and filter which is what I had on my car. I am very pleased with the results and there will be an article coming and dyno charts etc. I need to sync up with Garrett to get this together. BTW a brand new 997 C2S on the same dyno came in at 300HP even, so I am on par with or slightly better than a 3.8L stock 997 C2S!!! Stay tuned for an article!

awesome. thats about 340HP at crank right? i know you dont like to do 0-60 runs but is there any wayyou can clock so as i can comparewith other mods?

Any measureable change in emissions and/or mileage?

That is great to hear. I am going to contact my local rep again to see if he is up to speed yet. Thanks Russ

So is Imagine/GIAC willing to guarantee that level (or any specified level) of HP gain? If so, it might be worth a drive to KC. In 30+ years of playing with Porsches I've read/heard many claims of gains (some 'supported' w/dyno charts)from various exhausts, chips & intakes,but no one seems to be willing to back them up with a written guarantee. Edited by - STLPCA on 07/30/2006 12:17:14 PM

STLPCA - even Porsche does not offer performance guarantees on its claim of 295HP for the Cayman...

Really? I thought every Porsche engine was bench tested & dyno'd to assure it minimally met the advertised output. Some may bestronger, but none are weaker when they leave the factory. Moreover, when a manufacturer advertises a car's engine power without any reservation (& PAG/PCNAstate no reservations),that does constitute a guarantee with attendant liability if the claim is false.That's whyPorsche's published acceleration times are conservative. But anyway, what's your point? If I buy a product specifically based upon a promise of a certain advertised result, and it's untrue, shouldn't I get my money back? ... and wouldn't I be justified in being pissed?

The base 997 Carrera C2 has a 3.6 liter engine, the S models have a 3.8 liter. The listed HP for a 997 C2S is 355, so if they dyno in at 300 at the wheels, that is about an 15% loss. With the same 15% loss, K-Man S's total HP should be a little more than the 997C2S, somewhere around 358 HP. Wow! http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-carrera/featuresandspecs http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-carrera-s/featuresandspecs Edited by - Coupe-de-Gras on 07/30/2006 12:59:23 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr id="quote" noshade="noshade" height="1" /> awesome. thats about 340HP at crank right? i know you dont like to do 0-60 runs but is there any wayyou can clock so as i can comparewith other mods? <hr id="quote" noshade="noshade" height="1" /> At a 15% loss rate that's more like 355-360 at the crank. No 0-60 runs, I don't have a radar trap or handy drag strip or a G-Tech so not sure how I would measure it with any accuracy. On my uphill test run near my house I am now consistently 4-6mph faster than I was before at the top of the hill. </blockquote>

I haven't driven it enough to check the mileage yet, and so far it is has all be in-town with the A/C on because of the 100+ temps here, which reminds me those HP numbers were done on a 110 degree heat index day in KC inside a very warm shop, when the weather cools I expect the car to perk up a little more. No noticeable emissions from the tailpipe and Garrett checked everything with his mapping (has access to O2 sensor readings, etc.) and everything is within specs so I don't expect to see anything coming out of the tailpipe. You might ask Garrett for a technical explanation there since he's the man, or perhaps I can get that from him for the article.

You'll have to check with each vendor to see what they might or might not guarantee. I would think they would guarantee that you are going to get improvements but maybe not specific numbers, so let's say you go Milltek exhaust and it nets you an 18hp gain on the dyno, are you going to be upset? I mean there are differences between our cars to start with (for example mine has more mileage) that could account for small differences. Now of course if you put the exhaust on and only got a 5hp gain I'd wonder what the heck was going on, so again, talk to each vendor and see if they have a comfort level for a 'range' of HP improvement. The one I was most skeptical of was the EVO intake, but the dyno testing and tuning by GIAC showed that it was an improvement over stock or even over an open airbox. One of the reasons they spent so much time with my car is that they now have several ECU maps for the Cayman depending upon what mods you do or don't have and this will allow them to better match your car's needs. I would also encourage a call to Stephen Kaspar at Imagine Auto [phone removed] and talk to him about the mods that were done and the gains they see not only on my car but on other cars they tune, the are one of the top Porsche tuners in the country. Stephen knows what works and what doesn't. He's also the PCA Tech advisor for 911 Turbos (and just bought a new 997 turbo!)

Also, K-Man S should now have a slightly better power to weight ratio than a 997 C2S. 997 C2S => 3121 lbs/355 hp= 8.82 lbs per hp K-Man S => 2954 lbs / 358 hp = 8.25 lbs per hp Edited by - Coupe-de-Gras on 07/30/2006 2:46:16 PM

GIAC website FAQ: <table id="table155" cellspacing="6" cellpadding="0" width="100%" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td> <table id="table161" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td class="borderdowndark" height="22"><span class="ques">'Will my dealer void my warranty?[/quote]</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="text" style="PADDING-LEFT: 25px">It could happen. GIAC has developed and will continue to develop its products to be compatible with factory and other scan tools. GIAC does not condone or recommend any attempt to mislead factory automotive service providers for the purposes of complying with factory warranty agreements. In addition, GIAC makes no guarantees on it products’ compliance with such warranty agreements.'</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> 'Will chipping my car effect the life of the engine? Motor racing is extremely hazardous, and death may occur. GIAC products have no warranty or representations made with the ability to protect against injury or death. Motor racing, aggressive driving, including driving for any period of time at full throttle, and car modifications of any kind that facilitate aggressive driving may reduce the useful life of the car and any of its wearable parts. Improving the performance of an engine by altering the engine's computer software may cause the engine to 'work harder' and could result in damage to the car. The user assumes these risks. GIAC is not responsible for damage to a car of this kind. All of the items we sell are for off road and racing use only and have not been tested or approved by any federal or local governing agency and are not approved or recommended for street use. Understanding the legal requirements or legal limitations regarding the use of this product is the sole responsibility of the user. GIAC is not responsible or liable for errors or omissions. Prices are subject to change without notice. GIAC’s liability is limited to the original purchase price of the merchandise. ' Typical lawyer statement but one should be aware. Edited by - Santa Fe on 07/30/2006 3:04:26 PM

STLPCA - then by all means...produce the legal language that validates your position....becuase their isnt any. Once again, Porsche does NOT make performance guarantees. they make estimates...

To each his own, etc. However, this discussion reminds me of a friendwho is along-time Porsche tech and racer and his opinion of engine/performance modifications. He compares an engine's power and longevityto a bucket of water, saying you can pour it out over a long period of time (stock engine), or pour it out a lot faster over a short time (performance mods). An over simplification to be sure, but some truth and something all who chose to modify will understand.

SF, That does give one something to consider before doing anything, and is 7 or 8 HP worth it? Humm.. gotta think about it. Russ

To the discussion about killing the life of the engine, I think that a free flowing intake, slightly improved throttle and air mappings, with a muffler is hardly going to kill an engine. These basic bolt on mods are a far cry from jumping into forced induction, changing the camshafts, and more stress bearing engine modifications. I do agree that throwing a centrifugal supercharger on one of these engines will greatly cut its life, but intake and exhaust ? Based on my limited 15 years modding BMWs, they shouldn't hurt at all. K-Man, glad to hear the dyno results, when are you going to post up a vid of how the car sounds and performs?

>>>No 0-60 runs, I don't have a radar trap or handy drag strip or a G-Tech so not sure how I would measure it with any accuracy. On my uphill test run near my house I am now consistently 4-6mph faster than I was before at the top of the hill.<<<<< If you have the space you could check 0-100 MPH. The 997S turns it around 10.7 seconds. The stock Cayman S right at 12.0. If you're closer to 10 than you are 12...you'll know the mods are working as advertised. Just clock yourself using the SC. Paul

K-Man, It is impressive all that you have done and the results you have achieved. What would be helpufl to me and Im sure all the rest ofusis a listing of all the performance mods you have done and how we can get in on the action by giving us phone numbers/part numbers or description/website info, etc. Thanks, Jason.

CJ, Ken listed all his mods in another topic here. A search should turn them up.

K-man, Thats a good stategy and will provide optimal results for these common and fairly standard sort of mods. However there is one more senerio to allow for and that would be high octane fuel 98. That should be good for a few more HP. 98 octane is very easy to get here. </blockquote>

Okayman - I concur that intake and exhaust mods aren't going to kill a naturally aspirated engine, plus I added a deeper oil sump that if anything will extend the life of my motor by helping to keep oil temps and pressures in check under more stressful (track) conditions. I posted video/audio files of my car's exhaust and a dyno run, I'll try to get some more stuff posted before parade if I have time, otherwise maybe I'll film some stuff at parade and post afterwards. Devo - I'll give that a try next time I have some open road. Cayman Jason - As Santa Fe said, I posted that list in another topic but here it is again for those interested: 1) EVO Intake 2) Air Baffle plate removed 3) GIAC ECU tuning 4) Milltek full exhaust system Those are the HP increasing mods. I don't know if EVO or GIAC are going to be running any introductory special prices but I know Stratmosphere is going to on the exhaust .

I guess I am looking for more specifics like what is an EVO intake and where can I get more info on it and where to purchase it from. Same for the GIAC tuning. Thanks, Jason

Cayman Jason according to Google: http://www.giacusa.com/

EVO is Evolution Motorsports, which is probably evolutionmotorsports.com and I know the info is listed in the EVO intake article so check there as well.

Take a look at this http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060313/AUTO01/603130350/1148 When an automaker's 'estimate' turns out to be inflated, they sometimes end up paying compensation to the purchaser.

My 06 Cayman S (ECU tuned) was timed at about 4.4 sec. / 0-60.