Blown engines on 996

Hi, Was looking for a early 996, but just spoken to a 'major' porsche independent garage that told me they have stopped selling early (3.4) 996's as the engines blow up with frightening frequency between 50K and 70K miles. Can this be true ? I though 911's were 'bullet proof' compared to other high performance marks. But on further research there are some stories here and on other boards about this problem, and just looking through Top Marques, I see there are quite a few with engine replacments. What are the views of 996 owners out there - has this happened to any of you - or is it a very small percentage of cars that have this problem ? Your thoughts gratefully received. Sounds like the best way forward is to save up for a 3.6 OR buy one that has just has a new engine under warrantee. Martin.

Those who shout the loudest get heard the most!! There have been engine failures, but on the scale of things, it is a small percentage. My car has been absolutely brilliant - just get an extended warranty and enjoy the experience.

Hi, Thanks for your feedback. Obviously any engine on any manufacturer can fail, but are 3.4 996 worse than any other manufacturer ? It's a bit suspicious that in this week's Top Marques, at one major Porsche indy, 3 out of the 6 1998 and 1999 models for sales have had new engines. That doesn't look like a small percentage to me (i'm thinking along the lines of one engine per month (or less) of 996's advertised would be a small percentage). The problem with the Porsche warrantee is that it won't even cover a whole year on an early 1998 car as it only extends to up to 9 years. And from several past experiences other 'insurance' warrantees aren't worth the paper they're written on.

I'm not speaking with the voice of experience here, but I'm pretty sure you will find that the Porsche warranty is "renewable" to the point where the vehicle is 9 years old - i.e. it will be covered until it's 10th birthday. I think there is a mileage limit to but I'm sure somebody can define that. Regards Dave

There's a good article in this month Totally 911 on the true facts on the 996 engine design issues (go into W H Smith and read it in your lunch time!) makes for interesting reading on the whole topic. Porsche has been slowly trying to address the design faults through the evolution of the 996 engine, but these engines are not as bullet proof or as strong as the original dry sump design, hence the GT2/3 & Turbos' still use the old design Still a 5-10% failure rate is low compared to other manufacturers but high compared to the old models

Totall911 = Totally out of stock! Which models are affected e.g. all after 993 - present? When did it get 'fixed'? At what sort of mileage is it a problem? Are new ones still prone but won't show up for a while because of low mileage?

Sorry can't help as I'm no expert, but try track down a copy of the mag

All 996 water cooled models except the Turbo, GT2 and GT3 which use the old GT1 (?) block RMS is an issue on all model years, intermediate shaft failure supposedly got better from 2003, but i've seen report on pre and post 03 cars.

You can download a free copy of the article (and another one from a different mag, apr 2006) from autofarm's web site see http://www.autofarm.co.uk/new.php3/articles.html ( http://www.autofarm.co.uk/new.php3/Total911_July06.pdf ) & http://www.autofarm.co.uk/new.php3/911PW_Apr06.pdf I'd still say that 5 to 10% is NOT lower than other manufacturers. You don't see many adverts for 2nd hand Volkswagens, Toyota's or Subaru Imprezza's that have had so many replacement engines.

Here's a more positive way to look at it: Of all the 3.4s built, which are now between 5 and 9 years old, 90-95% still have their original engines[ ]

I found the articles more of an "advertorial" than an investigative article. The 5-10% figure seems to be guesswork on the part of JZ/Autofarm, and we all know that 78% of statistics are made up on the spot. [ ][ ].

I thought it was 88.2%.... [ ]

Isn't it interesting that both engineers would not themselves (their money and risk) buy an early 996............

I agree. And now seeing that older 996's have dipped well below 20,000 GBP (3 on autotrader right now), this unreliability and inability to warrantee older cars is having a big impact on resale.

There are always cheap versions around though - but how good are they? I reckon prices have dropped about £5k on the lower end stuff since I bought mine 18 months ago. If you look at the three that are for sale under £20k, two are the same car / different dealers but the same reg in the pics - one describes it as a 65k Cat D write off, the other as a 100k motor with no mention of wirte off!! The engine issue is worrying but I for one am happy to be in a motor of this class and performance, if I need an new engine fine - it will still cost less than the depreciation on an M3 [ ]

Yep - it's all gloom, doom and despondency. Don't know why the heck I've got one. [ ][ ][ ].

The thing to remember is Porsche's policy is to replace rather than fix. So things which were fixable, people were just given new engines. It is the same with gearboxes, you couldn't fix them so you had to buy new ones. But now the 996 is a known quantity, all these things can be repaired for a lot less money by independents than replacement by Porsche. If anything now is the time to buy one, as the independent world is geared up to support the 996 where previously they weren't. Personally I love mine. Mav

Well I am and I have! I get sick and tired of all this doom and gloom, wining on about what may or may not break and falling residuals. Get real - these are cars, and despite being made by Porsche they do break down occasionally whether we like it or not. Just like they have always done. So do Ferrari's, Aston, Lambos' and they are all expensive to repair. As the saying goes, if you don't like the heat - get out of the fire! No one is making anyone stay with a 996. The option is clear - go elsewhere and moan about another model, and leave us alone to enjoy ours. Yes, of course it's got faults, so have ALL other 911 models. Have pre 964 owners taken a good look under the wheel arches lately? Unless you want a financial shock don't even go there. Only last week I was talking to a body shop and they were telling me that late 3.2's are now coming in for full restoration due to corrosion. Sub 20k 996 - yeah OK! That makes me laugh. If you want trouble with a 996 then this would be a sure fire way of jumping into the melting pot. Come on fella's lighten up - the 996 is an excellent car, lets not have glazed eyes of past glories. All 911's have their problems so lets support each other in our common love of the marque like true enthusiasts.

Perfectly put, Peter .

Seconded.

Peter, I agree with your comments. However, I didn't start this thread to have a moan, just to get some real feedback from owners. I don't currently have a Porsche and I _want_ to buy an early 996. From reading all the car mags over the last 20 years, an outsider gets the impression of the 911 as being 'bullet-proof' / 'usable daily' supercar (unlike (say) a Ferrari). Having then come to look at actual cars for sale, it came as a big shock to hear about these engine failures on 996, backed up with seeing adverts for a surprising number for sale with replacement engines. I can only afford an early 996, which won't be covered by the porsche warrantee. I _can_ afford to run it and service it well, but I can't afford the risk to spend 10K on a replacment engine. If that 'risk' is 1 in 5000 then, well that's life. That's the same risk as my previous cars (audi, toyota, subaru, golf), but if the risk is 1 in 10 to 1 in 20, that's a big gamble. I'd be better off saving up the extra 10K to spend 33-35K on a 3.6 model that doesn't have the same engine issue.

Peter Very well put. Phil

Don't think we're looking at the same cars:- 1) 1998 R Reg PORSCHE 911 (996) Carrera 2 Coupe Tiptronic 105,000 miles, Guards red. full savanna leather, electric sunroof, traction control, sound pack, cruise control, fully electric memory seats. Full Porsche service history. £17,995. 2) 1998 R Reg PORSCHE 911 2 Doors, Manual, Coupe, Petrol, arena red metalic. savana leather with full electric pack including electric tilt and slid sunroof,18" turbo alloys and factory fitted GT3 rear aerofoil,a good looking 996 priced to sell,108'000 miles with full porsche and specialist service history.TRADE SALE. MOBILE NO. ... £18,995 3) 1998 PORSCHE 996 C2, 71000 miles, Silver, Red interior, excellent condition, fully serviced, MOT, cheapest Porsche available. £19,700. o.n.o Obviously, you won't want to buy from number 3 as he's already lying in his add as his isn't the "cheapest Porsche available" !!!

Hear hear

it would be very interesting to see what is what with these cars as i am sure there are a few hidden factors, that may come to light when a phone call is made such as LHD or had a big bash at some stage, there is always somthing cheap about until you start looking in detail. Phil

Diesel130 I understand what you are saying, and my apologies for making you think I was having a go at you personally. Of course you are correct to be wary of any forthcoming car purchase, no matter what make. All older cars can have problems, none are exempt. I am afraid it's a case of buyer beware. You can minimise this with a full engineers report and buying the best you can afford. Don't be put off with all the scare mongering, I doubt very much that the blown engines are anywhere near 1 in 50, and besides, who says that all the engines that have reportedly been change have indeed really warranted it. Just ask yourself who has the most to gain by changing an engine under warranty that may not be entirely goosed - they put the strong case forward to AG and behold another cash cow lines the pockets!

Having just read the total 911 article this morning it seems to be well researched and reasoned, and not sensationalist. Frankly the points they are putting are hard to argue against. There were fundamental design faults in the 3.4 996 engine. 1. Cylinder bore liners crack because they were too thin and set in aluminium. This is asking for trouble as different metals expand and contract at different rates (my 'o' level physics coming in here). 2. There were design problems with the "intermediate shaft" (whatever that is.) which Porsche tried to correct. 3. RMS issue (a whole new can of worms) 4. Other head related issues. Basically the engine was poorly designed and Porsche has been trying to fix it ever since. So we may argue about failure rates, but after owning a 964, the reason I bought a 993 was that all the design faults had been fixed. The same applies to the 996. Buy a later one and you will be OK. Cost aside, why risk buying an early one ?

With all due respect, on that basis you would have to wait until the 996 development was 30 years on! And the 993 has it's flaws, don't forget.

Try the following for rebuild Autofarm 01865 331234 Try these for second hand Porsch-apart ltd. 07000 924944 www.porsch-apart.co.uk Van Zweeden +31 118 581370 www.v-zweeden.com

Johned, Oh what bad luck - seems these occurrences are not so uncommon then ... What's the spec of the car ? I'd be interested in buying an early 996 (not tippytronic or savannah) with a blown engine. Martin.

John So sorry to hear about your problems. Also try Hartech (www.hartech.org) they rebuild 996 engines too. I had, what I thought was the eninge failure described here but it turned out to be a broken valve spring. I'm not saying that to give you false hope just to say that Barry at Hartech repaired rather than replace the engine at significantly less cost - it's worth a phone call! They also have a fair bit of info on their site about this. Good luck

If you don't get out of the fire, at least get out of the kitchen....... Agreed - this is all bollox and if its going to cause you sleepless nights, go buy a Toyota Aygo. Richard

LOL Richard. [ ] I know the 996 is a great car. If you've found a good one, I am sure you will enjoy it. Sorry for sounding a bit negative.