IMSB replaced

HI Folks..., I finally bite the bullet... 2 weeks ago i realized that my RMS was leaking... no drop on the ground yet but why take the chance and i said while i'm there why not replacing the cluch and IMSB. I found a new Sachs cluch kit in EBAY for $225.00 and i bougt the original RMS seal at the dealer. A mechanic friend of mine did the job and all together it costed me around $1900.00. I took some pics of the bearing and believe when my mechanic showed me the bearing my first reaction was........wow is this the bearing i tought it was a lot bigger then that. The bearing was still like new

Funny what a huge percentage of Rennlisters that replace their IMSB say that the bearing was perfect. I'm at 73k miles, my clutch is still fine so I'll continue to do hyper frequent (3,000 miles) oil changes and examine my oil filter but the IMSB is staying original till I need a clutch or find traces of metal in my filter or attached to my magnetic drain plug.

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I am another with a perfectly good IMS replaced. My new to me 02 C2 has a little seepage at the rms and my mechanic recommended just doing the ims, rms and AOS all together. My car has 36k and driven gently by its 70 yo prior owner. I guess I gave into the hype but I sleep better now. Went with the LN Pro. The mint condition stock ims is now sitting as a paper weight on my desk.

I just purchased a 1999 Carerra with 28,000 miles. Took it to my mechanic and he STRONGLY recommend I get the IMSB replaced NOW. It is doing in on Tuesday. Just doing IMSB and RMS. Should not need a clutch. Mechanic said it sat to much and the age is the factor. I will now be able to drive it without the thought being in my head. It will be frustrating if the bearing is perfect, but it is the nature of the beast. Porsche should be ashamed for what it has created.

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Well being you have a '99, you have to now worry about cylinder ovaling and D-chunking. also if you drive it in the winter, watch out for cylinder scoring as well. If Porsche should be ashamed for creating it, why did you buy it?

Its the people that bought/buy the cars and then don't drive them that should be ashamed if you ask me. Which you didn't, but i said it anyway. A 99 with only 28k? Disgraceful.

If it wasn't for the IMS, we would have very little to talk about.

I pulled my IMSB out yesterday. 77,000 miles on it and it is like new. I feel pretty stupid for buying into the IMS hype... RMS was leaking so I figured it was better to be safe than sorry.

FWIW, my RMS has been leaking slightly for the past year. I still sleep easy though. I'll get to it when I change out my clutch. I just have to wipe up that area of the floor from time to time...

Yesterday i went to say hello to my mechanic and say thanks for the job he has done to my car and surprise...there were 2 Porsche (a 996 and a boxster) with blown engine. The one from the 996 has only bent one valve (costly but easy to save) but the other one from the boxster was shot....that is probably why i decided to replaced the IMSB......$1,500.00 insted of $20,000.00 for a new engine.....

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Don't feel stupid, and is not hype. Ask anyone who has experienced it. That said, the bearings that are "perfect" are the only bearings that should be retrofitted. Why? Because any bearing that has begun to fail will generate foreign object debris that has a great potential to take out the new bearing, or the rest of the engine. The people that had a "perfect bearing" are often disappointed, because they wanted to see the bearing falling apart to justify the expense. This isn't smart, because if that old bearing was falling apart, collateral damage has already impacted the engine and many other measures then become necessary. People don't know, what they don't know- they have to experience it, and believe me, thats not fun. If you drive it long enough to show symptoms of bearing failure, the chances of a positive experience are greatly diminished. Here we'll only retrofit healthy engines; in fact we spend more than half the first day of the retrofit process qualifying the engine for the retrofit. Thats how we've installed 425 retrofits (including the very first one) and haven't ever had a post- process failure.

I suggest then that it could be justly argued that you did 425 replacements that were not needed, if the bearings that came out were in good condition

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Don't even try that angle. Answer my phones for a week and you'll know all that you need to know. We are at 5 failure reports for this week so far, about average.

Personally, I consider replacing any wear-type item as PM, whether or not that part shows any sign of failure. For example, I replaced my water pump before it failed, since every single older car I have owned eventually has experienced a water pump failure. In my opinion, people shouldn't feel foolish if they replace a bearing and find the old one to be in good condition. Maybe the old one will eventually fail, maybe not. Either way, it's a good PM move, IMHO. [By the way, my old one, at 100K miles, "looked" to be good as new. Wish I had saved it to take a look at the bearings inside the housing.]: .

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If everyone subscribed to that logic, everyone here would be poor. So at 5 failures per week on the avg, Can anyone guess how much time would be needed to thin the 996 herd level to a point where it may become a collectors item?

Well if you believe it, that's at least 250 cars a year for one repairer alone. Give it a few years and an original 996 will be as rare as rocking horse sh*t. Sorry but I feel an element of fear related hype/BS/marketing at play yet again

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Indeed. My dwindling savings account balance can verify your statement.

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Good to know. It's evidence the original retrofit is durable if it's installed correctly and the "patient" is a good candidate. It's analagous to many medical and dental procedures in that respect. I had one of your/LN's original single-row bearings installed (ironically by the garage that went on to develop the DOF, but at the time had the most experience installing them of any shop in the area) in 2011 and have 25K miles on it so far. The OEM bearing was in perfect condition when it came out, and I have changed oil every 6 mos/3K miles since. I am hoping against hope it lasts another 2 1/2 years (roughly 15K miles) at which time my extended warranty will expire and I will make a decision whether to sell the car based on other factors (it will be 12 yrs old and about 70K miles by then), or if I keep it, have either the PRO retrofit or the solution installed. If the latter, might just take a nice drive up GA way and have you do it. I am grateful to you for all your hard work and ingenuity in developing it, not the least of which was not accepting Porsche's contention that the IMSB was non-replaceable. As to whether the IMSB is an issue or not, IMO the successful class-action suit is enough to convince me it's not all hype.

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15 yrs, 7 months, 3 weeks, 4 days, 3 hrs and 27 minutes or so?

I replaced my stock bearing because I needed to address a RMS leak. I purchases L&Ns "Single Row Pro" Retrofit kit and the Faultless Tool, plus I had access to the original tool kit. It is all beyond top quality equipment. I wanted a little conversation before attempting the install which I felt confident I could do myself and I had questions about the wire retaining clip. Jake Raby, the creator extraordinaire, probably doesn't want this known but he is a great guy! I actually got a call from him personally when I asked for some tech support! After Jake's few tips, I had a "faultless" installation. The key is to make sure you have perfect alignment of the tool and the bore, push the bearing and clip into the tool about 3/16 so that the clip is past the taper before you start and use lots of light lube. That dual row bearing and the related hardware L&N supplies makes the stock stuff look really insufficient. The wire clip retains the bearing extremely well, too. I'm very happy to have made the investment I enjoy working on my own cars and have been wrenching on them for over 40 years. Even though the IMS kit and tools are not recommended as DIY, if you have the experience and resources this is a straightforward procedure. I will be posting my experience with some pics as soon as I get some time.

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Hmmm...Are you sure you are still talking about bearings?

OP you did the right thing. PM is just good common sense. You may have removed your car from the 996 future CEF casualty list. Hope you re-filled with JG oil. About Jakes comments: Everything Jake says is based on common sense, extensive experience, and research. He's a pioneer in the Porsche frontier and a mechanical genius who has risked everything to prove his theories by extensive/expensive research. We would be better to shut the hell up and pay attention to his posts rather than doubt him. So OP, just let the doubters continue to question the best 996 mind in the US and sort through the info for yourself. Read Jakes story for more.

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So this is the reason why you went with your own bearing instead of his and started to question his products in another thread, huh... So when's your next date with Jake? He better let you get the butter option this time on your popcorn for talking him up.

I'll add a few comments, never having owned a 996/Boxter, never having done an IMS job, and contemplating the purchase of a car and installing the bearing myself. So, given that I'm a backyard rube, with no training, or experience I consider the IMS bearing to be a 'lifetime' part not needing replacement for the life of the engine. That's what Porsche said, and that's what they meant. In fact, for the longest time, Porsche said the IMS bearing was not even serviceable without engine disassembly. Hmmm. Given that Porsche has entered into a consent liability agreement for a very small population of prematurely failed bearings, it's clear that the part is NOT in fact, a lifetime part, but has become a replaceable component. But still not a wear component like brake pads or wipers. Why no recall by Porsche? Why no massive retrofit campaign? Why is the lawsuit restricted to such a small pool of owners? Hmmmmmm If you take your affected car to a Porsche dealer today, and asked them to replace the IMS bearing and ONLY the IMS bearing I wonder if they would charge you for an engine teardown, or if they would find a way to replace just the IMS via the access cover? Hmmmmmm. The aftermarket products are using words like 'solution' and 'eternal'. If I read the warranties correctly though - the vendors do not warranty that an engine which has been converted correctly and by a pro will never fail from a IMS bearing fault, and if there is a subsequent bearing failure the only warranty is for the bearing itself, and not the installation or removal, or the engine which is of course where the serious damages happen. Hmmmmmmm. Just some of the joys of owning/buying a time bomb. Tick tock!

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Glad it was faultless after our 20 minutes on the phone. Damn I hate the phone, takes me away from my work! Also, don't be ruining my reputation of being an ******* around here, else everyone will blow my phone up wanting to talk to me! :-)

I am glad that nickdee62 received wonderful service from Jake. For the price of the IMS and tool, the service should be fantastic. My experience with L+N and Flat 6 was not fantastic. I made several calls and email inquiries for both L+N and Flat 6 to get some technical information regarding the Classic versus the Retrofit Pro. The person at L+N clearly did not have enough knowledge to answer my questions. I was called by a salesman from Flat6 who was very informative on the call. He explained how I should send my car to Flat 6. When I explained that I would most likely have an experienced indy take care of the service (and save thousands), the promised information to be emailed never arrived and none of my follow-up questions were never answered.

No, you weren't. I have never employed a sales person here, and never will. The person you spoke with is my General Manager, or me- no one else here answers the phones. Anyone that told you that you should send us the car, was stating the obvious- because you did call us and installations are what we do. You did call us. We apply products that we have developed, people call us because they want our services. If you didn't want to send the car to us for those services, then why did you call us? I am kind of confused. We do not sell any products, nor do we offer support for them. 100% of our focus is offered from an installation point of view in regard to anything regarding the IMS Retrofit. When I develop something and it takes the path into circulation, my part has been done for months or years before and I have moved on to the next project. Thee seller/ installer of the products then has the responsibility of any support that may be necessary. Thats because the indy doing the work would assume the responsibility for giving you the information. As the installer this is their responsibility, and no one else's. If you did not seek out our services, then our information will do nothing except possibly conflict with what your local indy would state. We have our own way of doing these things, because we developed the retrofit process, and no one does it like us. Every other installer can just blame a potential failure on the components, but we can't do that, and we don't. Because of that everything that we do here is absolute. Once someone tells us that they are going to have an indy perform the IMS Retrofit, we immediately redirect them to the indy, or tell them that sending us the car is a possibility. We don't employ sales tactics, and no commission based sales people here exist. Very seldom does anyone call here who isn't interested in shipping us their car, because the point is clearly made, and understood that we apply products here. We work hard to train sales people who distribute these products, and I travel the continent to train shop owners and technicians about the components and processes. That said, its up to them to seek out the training and to buy the components from distributors who have been trained. This is the reason why it's been 4 years since we sold any retrofit components to any individual. I apologize if your expectations were not met, never any explanation or excuse for that.

It must be exhausting being you Jake...

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It would be, if I were more human :-)

Caller: Can I get some info on..... Flat6: Are we installing it? Caller: No but my indy is going to....... Flat6: Then FUUUCK OFFFF! <CLICK>

I originally reached out to Flat 6 and L+N for product information by email. As the co-inventors of 2 costly options (Retrofit Classic vs. Pro) that a consumer is attempting to select from, one would hope that a consumer could obtain this information from a phone call or email. This was not the case and it is disappointing. An indy is responsible for addressing all installation questions, not proprietary design questions. When your 'general manager' called me (yes, left several messages before I was able to call back), he did an excellent job at explaining the services that Flat 6 provides and the beneficial aspects regarding sending my car to you (good employee). He pledged to forward further information by email regarding your various tiered services. I made comment at the end of our conversation that I was also considering having an indy do the service but had made NO decisions and would review what he was too forward. (sorry, Kool Aid consumer Imo000 ). Again, a very nice conversation. There was however no follow-up from him (which he said would occur). I did more research and I elected to have an experienced indy take care of the job and all is great. My original reply above centers on my belief that creators (co-inventors) should be available/willing to address consumer questions that pertain to their products. That is a component of customer service. We may differ on this point and that is fine. However, it is wise to take customer feedback seriously. Thanks for co-inventing a great product.

Guys....Flat6 offers a service. Take it or leave it. It's that simple. You may hate them but they are your best friend when you need them.

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Maybe, just possibly you don't understand what Flat 6 does. They are a full service Porsche shop. They also specialize in replacing the IMSB, and they are resellers of the bearing and related components from LN engineering. So here's the rub. If you called me and asked me for my tech info on stuff I work on, and then tell me you are going to have someone else do the work with the tech that we also offer, I would not return your calls or emails either. Here is the link to all the materials you'll ever need from LN: http://lnengineering.com/products/ims.html Take them to your installer of your choice and let them have at it. There's nothing you deserve from the shop that does the IMS work if you aren't going to have them do the job and get paid for it. BTW, when I get one of these cars, this is the first thing I'm going to do. Put it on a rack, drop the trans, buy and install one of the IMS bearing kits, repl the RMS, and maybe the AOS depending. I will not be calling a service shop and asking for repair info on the job, nor the proprietary engineering that went into the development. I thought I had some big brass ones, but it seems I've been trumped.

I gotta agree with Doc on this. His comments are 100% spot on. And, I have to say, whenever anything regarding Jake gets posted here, he responds right away. Whether or not you agree with him is for you to decide. But, another vendor, who may or may not be in a link in my signature below, fails time and time and time again to provide any reply on the forums.

I am wondering about a specific pair of Nikes. Is it ok to call Nike and ask questions or because i plan on buying their product from footlocker then they shouldnt answer my questions? Jake doesnt have to answer to anyone but it does help when the developer of a product can amswer some questions. And i am sure Jake probably does just that everytime he has to defend himself around here or respond to posts. Not everyone has the time or ability to ship a car to GA to have it worked on. Not everyone needs to. For what its worth. I have called flat 6 Several times with great success getting answers amd have used two of their bearings...so far with great success. Jake is an expert and i appreciate what he does. Just my two cents...

Perfect analogy. I appreciate it. Per the logic used by Imo000 and some others, one can ONLY call NIKE to ask questions about a NIKE product IF one decides beforehand that one is definitely purchasing a Nike product and only ordering from Nike.com. If you MIGHT purchase at Footlocker or you MAY decide on Reebok, don't even bother calling to learn more about the Nike products to make an informed purchase. Now, I do strongly agree that a reseller and installer should not answer a potential customer's questions once the customer declares that he/she is going to purchase services elsewhere. ( I never stated to the Flat 6 'general manager' that I was going to an indy because I had not made any decisions about whether to do the IMS replacement, which bearing would be purchased and who would do the future installation! Further, the general manager clearly thought that I was still a potential customer because at the end of his call, he pledged to send me further information by email but never did.) When I initially emailed Jake and L+N, I was reaching out to the co-inventors of a product. My questions were product related and had nothing to do with installation. As such, my expectations of obtaining information to be able to better compare the Classic Retrofit to the Pro were very appropriate. In fact, Jake has kindly answered many questions in this forum and per nickdee62, Jake spent 20+ minutes on the phone with him. This is excellent and frankly, is what a customer should expect for a part that costs $750 + and installation that brings the bill to over 2K. I simply stated that I did not enjoy the same level of service. Plain and simple. Jake provides insights and information in this forum, by phone and email to sell product and garner more business for Flat 6 (and that is absolutely appropriate). I suspect that many (majority) of the recipients of this valuable information do not send/drive their cars to Georgia for IMS replacement. So, when I simply stated that I did not receive the same level of information delivery, one should not defend it by saying that Jake is just a "reseller" of the bearing. Docmirror's contention is that anyone who calls for product information or installation information has bigger brass ***** than him. Many of us are not able or willing to put the car up on a rack, drop the tranny and do the service. I think that most consumers who want to make an informed product purchase and an informed choice in their installers before spending hard earned money are going to ask questions. The smart consumer should ask any and all questions before dropping a single penny. While the delivery of information was less than satisfactory, I was able to learn all that I needed to know from previous posts and kind Rennlist members. The Retrofit Pro, RMS,AOS, and a new water pump were installed by a local indy recommended by a Rennlist member. I could not be more pleased with my purchase and how the decisions were made. I remain a fan of Jake and L+N's work to create solutions for the IMS issue. Cheers!

Glad to hear that. Over time I've learned that its better off to be the idea man that no one knows. Over the past several years several developments have been made that were mine, and no one knew it, and I am a lot happier about that.

I sold my 993 back in 1998 and have been wandering in the wilderness ever since. Last week, after searching for a 993 or 964, I discovered that the 996 was the deal of the century. So I bought one. After hearing the warnings of the engine seals on the air cooled 3.6 it was interesting to see a world of fear now about the new engines. My 2003 C2 has only 39k on it but it still is eleven years old. I decided to stop worrying and enjoy the car. I bought a service contract that covers the engine and trans and fuel system for 3 years or 36000 miles. I consider it $2500 well spent and if stuff happens, so be it. In the meantime I am very very impressed with my 996. It feels much more like my '93 RS America (but with better steering) than my 993. And while I loved the more nimble shape of my 993...my new car is pure raw pleasure and I'm not sure I would go back to the earlier car. Mercedes, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Ferrari, Porsche...each one is filled with legendary horror stories. But the pleasure of driving these machines is all about taking it one day at a time. For me, my 996 is now my daily driver. And looking forward to reading all the posts here.

If it costs $0000.00 to replace your clutch, why did you change the rear main seal? Trying to save $30? I have had RMS begin to leak 2 weeks after changing a clutch (928s4) It's common sense PM to change that bearing while you are there, and move on with your life. Particularly if your's is the type engine that has collateral damages. It may happen to only 1-2% of the cars, but if it happens to YOU, it's 100%! An old redneck hillbilly once said, "don't give out no free information". I add to that by saying, let them do their own research unless they want to pay for knowledge. Right on Flat 6, you guys are awesome and can't please everybody. Do you have any more of them VW shaped pacifiers to give as door prizes?

I'm a mechanical engineer , I've worked on everything from komatsu and hitachi mining shovels worth millions of dollars to prat and whitney jet engines and VW beetles . I bought a 996 last year with only 30000 miles on it , it got a l&n n bearing first chance I got . No regrets , The most expensive bearing I've ever changed was on the worlds largest hydraulic shovel in the oilsands mines , It failed after half the expected service life . The bearing was 6 foot in diameter and cost more to change than a dozen 991s all in . We didn't scrap the shovel , we designed a grease injection feed and a harder bearing .

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Jake answering phone calls in his khakis

Not to put too fine a point on it but EVERY failed IMS bearing looked perfect...at some point. Not sure why anyone would want to wait for things to start degrading and THEN fix it. I'd trust Jake on this issue...just sayin'

on their service options via email last Tuesday at 6:03 PM their time, I had a .pdf answer in my inbox in 4 hours and 40 minutes. They knew because I put it in my request that I wouldn't be a customer. That said, given that they have developed 4 different bearing kits for a single row, I do wish their literature gave out more info on when and why it is appropriate to use a particular kit. There are so many kits available and so many claims it would at least help us sort out the differences between the ones they developed. I've told Jake this.

You'll note that what I provided you with had zero sales talk, it was all technical. Trying to sell someone what kit they need comes off as a sales pitch, so I don't do it. I have often thought about bringing back my Podcast to go over things like this, but that too, would also be too pushy. Why? Because I am confident in what we have created, and have so much enthusiasm for it, that the intensity comes across as too much for most people. That said, not even publications will do this. Two years ago when a certain well respected write, wrote a piece like this for a well established, and highly respected periodic publication, when he was still their Technical Editor, and they refused to publish it. As far as which kit to use, we only offer the IMS Solution (Yes, I do have a dual row IMS Solution for 97-99 cars) as it is the be all, end all for this situation. A true Solution to the problem. It takes us the same time to perform the retrofit, no matter which technology is being employed, so why not only use the best? Thats my outlook. I will say that doing this, costs us a lot of business, ONLY because of price point. So be it, I believe in he product that has my name on the US Patent. That leads into the reason why there are different kits. It boils down to price, and price alone. In the early days we couldn't get it through people's thick skulls that the OE bearing could even be removed, so then, the IMS Solution would have never sold. It looked foreign to the engine, and back then, people didn't really think the IMSB failure was a huge problem. You have to remember, at that time no one outside of our circle had even touched my IMSB extraction tool. Today its been knocked off by everyone out there, on 4 continents (was not patentable) To say things have changed would be a huge understatement. Today everyone knows the IMSB can be retrofitted, and the posts on forums have changed from "my dealer says my IMS Bearing is bad, it can't be changed, and a new engine is my only hope" to I had my local Indy perform an IMS Retrofit using the LN kit, and I sleep better at night". To achieve that took 8 years. Thats right, 8 hard *** years of fighting everyone, as well as the copycats. When you blaze a new trail, only the hardest of chargers wants to travel down it, while it is still smoldering. BTW- I don't have any Khakis.... Greasy cut off came shorts is my typical attire.