991.2 GT3 RS or 992 GT3? - Page 5 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Ive been driving a manual 991.2 GT3 for 3 years, I've done 14k miles in it. I don't really use it much from day to day, but plenty of trips and track days. Living on the south coast most track days are 3/400 mile round trips so the journeys account for much of the mileage. Ive been thinking about a change and every time I go on AT im looking at either the RS or a newer GT3. To date I haven't driven either, but have an appointment with my local dealer this week to discuss options. If he has anything in the showroom I might ask to book a test drive, otherwise I will look further afield. Ive not bought a car from the main dealer network always bought from JZM/ Im not a fan of the tech on the 992, but I guess I need to get my head around it soon, as every manufacturer is moving that way. What does interest me is the front suspension changes and improved turn. Doubt I will get a drive in an RS but does anyone have any experience of the two on track? Not overly fussed about which is the better road car, quite like a hardcore ride. One last option, is to sell my 991.1 c2s daily driver, and get a 992 touring as a daily that could double for trips and track days as well. That would add 15k mpa. Ive never seen one on track but doubt the lack of fixed rear spoiler would make much difference to my enjoyment. Any thoughts?

Are you set on PDK? Obviously that’s the only option with the 991.2 GT3 RS.

PDK is preferred for next car.

Do you want the Weissach pack ? Only the 991.2 GT3RS has this as an option and there appear to be only a few cars without it .. Do you prefer classic more simple cars ? The early 991.2 GT3RS' did not have the Particulate Filter and have analogue style instrumentation and controls. For your everyday will the later front suspension of the 992GT3 make any real difference ? Would you want the Clubsport package ? You will struggle to find a 991.2 GT3RS without ... ?? Too many questions

Ha, sorry about that. I guess what I really want is a great track day 911 with pdk gearbox Thats my primary want. So GT3 or older RS

I've just copied this from another post ... but this was my choice, and why ... Well I've made my mind up. As many will know I have massively over-serviced whilst regularly tracking and modifying my 981 GT4 which was one of the very first cars with the advantage of the splined third gear. I have thoroughly enjoyed the journey and have deliberately kept all the original components that have been exchanged ... but after eight+ years I felt that it was time for a change. I had always thought that the logical next step was a GT4RS ... the car that Porsche would never sell me, once secondhand prices dropped down towards list prices. Before Christmas this had happened and dealers were very keen to close a cash sale before the end of the year and I came whisker close to buying a red GT4RS at Porsche Edinburgh who were very straight with me, but ... 1. Even at list price the car was £25k over the new car that I would have specified for myself 2. I do have some hearing loss and I worried about exacerbating this in a GT4RS 3. The GT4RS still has limitations with the rear suspension when compared to a GT3 ... and it also has limited down force, ... I want more in the next experience of my track car ownership 4. Build numbers / residuals ... are they still going to build 7000 of them ? So I went hunting with the negotiating advantage of the December deadline ... 992 GT3 (?) ... I didn't like the less traditional interior ... and there are so many around / residuals ... manual would be nice but maybe not on an even faster track car ... 992 GT3RS (?) not an option for so many reasons ... so no to the 992. Next up was the 991.2 GT3 RS ... very few around without Weissach which I didn't want, but I managed to find a one owner 2018 non-Weissach car with one owner, full OPC service history, 7500 miles and front tyres dated week 40 / 18. Even better it carried the approved warranty which extended this to June 2026 and all the other advantages of an approved car ... new tyres / service / mot etc. It was an SOR car and the original owner and the OPC were amazing in helping me to make it happen with a committed deposit on the 30th December and completion mid January once my source investments had been liquidated ... hopefully earlier. This should keep me happy and out of trouble for another eight years when hopefully I won't be in line for an upgrade to an off-road wheelchair ?? smile Question ... what to do with my modified GT4 ? Surely not to return it to standard ?

hardlylikely said: Ha, sorry about that. I guess what I really want is a great track day 911 with pdk gearbox Thats my primary want. So GT3 or older RS If it's primarily for track and you have no real issues with a dual clutch box (and presumably all the extra technological gubbins that are associated with that), you probably might as well go with the 992 gt3 because that will be the 'latest and greatest' so to speak, particularly as PAG have it seems somewhat shifted the focus of the GT cars more towards track performance and laptimes.

Defo one of those cases, where you just need to get a drive in both and see which speaks to you.

The 992 GT3RS is a fabulous machine ... apart form the price / time to list price / which wasn't working to my age advantage ... Downforce at max ... GT4RS 100Kg / 991.2 GT3RS 586Kg / 992.2 GT3RS 860Kg ... 991.2 GT3 was 290? Kg ... and 992 ? to check ...

ChrisW. said: Do you want the Weissach pack ? Only the 991.2 GT3RS has this as an option and there appear to be only a few cars without it .. Do you prefer classic more simple cars ? The early 991.2 GT3RS' did not have the Particulate Filter and have analogue style instrumentation and controls. For your everyday will the later front suspension of the 992GT3 make any real difference ? Would you want the Clubsport package ? You will struggle to find a 991.2 GT3RS without ... ?? Too many questions Yes Chris , this makes sense older .2 non Weisach , then Suspension set up ..oddly mine is a non club sport as I use the car and all the metal in the back gets in the way . Only do occasional track days as spend is kept for racing still. Edited by hunter 66 on Friday 5th January 11:58

ChrisW. said: The 992 GT3RS is a fabulous machine ... apart form the price / time to list price / which wasn't working to my age advantage ... Downforce at max ... GT4RS 100Kg / 991.2 GT3RS 586Kg / 992.2 GT3RS 860Kg ... 991.2 GT3 was 290? Kg ... and 992 ? to check ... Agree amazing , but a little too racy ( at least my wife would never get in it ) and costly ....no Boot as well .

ChrisW. said: The 992 GT3RS is a fabulous machine ... apart form the price / time to list price / which wasn't working to my age advantage ... Downforce at max ... GT4RS 100Kg / 991.2 GT3RS 586Kg / 992.2 GT3RS 860Kg ... 991.2 GT3 was 290? Kg ... and 992 ? to check ... 991.2 rs max downforce definitely isn't 586kg. from memory, the sportauto supertest had the 992 gt3 at about the same as the 991.2 3rs. the 992 rs was about 1.8x the 991.2 3rs.

isaldiri said: ChrisW. said: The 992 GT3RS is a fabulous machine ... apart form the price / time to list price / which wasn't working to my age advantage ... Downforce at max ... GT4RS 100Kg / 991.2 GT3RS 586Kg / 992.2 GT3RS 860Kg ... 991.2 GT3 was 290? Kg ... and 992 ? to check ... 991.2 rs max downforce definitely isn't 586kg. from memory, the sportauto supertest had the 992 gt3 at about the same as the 991.2 3rs. the 992 rs was about 1.8x the 991.2 3rs. actually. Chris is right. it is 586kg on the 3rs (assuming the same top speed which probably isn't quite the same tbf). I had picked off the 2rs technical doc and had always assumed it was just a little less than the 3rs but looking again at the sportauto figures, that was rather a major flub on my part. Sportauto had (at 200kmh) 991 2rs 142kg 991 3rs 200kg 992 3rs 361kg

And I was about to apologise because I found the figure from a magazine review rather than source .... this is also the figure in maximum downforce setting, which I guess isn't the norm ... Isn't it the job of a forum such as this to straighten out teh numbers and present options ?

Worth reading the uber informed supertest which explains well how much better the 992GT3 is https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/test/porsche-9...

hunter 66 said: ChrisW. said: Do you want the Weissach pack ? Only the 991.2 GT3RS has this as an option and there appear to be only a few cars without it .. Do you prefer classic more simple cars ? The early 991.2 GT3RS' did not have the Particulate Filter and have analogue style instrumentation and controls. For your everyday will the later front suspension of the 992GT3 make any real difference ? Would you want the Clubsport package ? You will struggle to find a 991.2 GT3RS without ... ?? Too many questions Yes Chris , this makes sense older .2 non Weisach , then Suspension set up ..oddly mine is a non club sport as I use the car and all the metal in the back gets in the way . Only do occasional track days as spend is kept for racing still. Edited by hunter 66 on Friday 5th January 11:58 Given the complexity who around the York area would be recommended to do a good track geo ?? I used to use Tracktorque in Tockwith but the last geo wasn't so good ?

Getting back to your original question: 991.1 GT3 RS or 992 GT3 Touring. I exchanged my 991.1 GT3 RS for a 992 GT3 (and also have a 997 GT3 RS 4.0) I never really gelled with the 991.1 GT3 RS. Although I did 7000 miles in it and had it from new it newer became my favourite car to drive. On track I found it rather clinical and it didn’t have the analog charm of the 997 GT3 RS 4.0. I also found the front end to be rather floaty and when I drove the 992 GT3 Touring it became abundantly clear, that the new edition of the 992 GT cars is more track focussed than the previous generation. I use my 992 GT3 Touring as a daily (although it is compromised - too loud) but I also take it to the track. I have a set of winter tyres so its a proper allrounder. For special occasions, I use the 4.0 but I don‘t miss the 991.1 GT3 RS.

Looks like Geoff L has put his 992 up for sale.. 39GL

Had my meeting with my salesman at local dealership, and surprise surprise, I can't buy a new GT3, as I don't buy enough cars. Ive read the 992 GT3 supertest report and wow, what a car, that really makes great reading, I truly didn't appreciate the degree of progress made over the 991. As suggested I need to drive both cars and see which one does it for me. Thanks for all advice.

You’ve already got a wonderful car. Maybe consider diversifying your driving experiences rather than changing. Throw the money at some time at the Millbrook proving grounds, trips to the Alps etc. Spend the summer doing this and reevaluate. ..or just f@&k it and get a new car!

ChrisW. said: hunter 66 said: ChrisW. said: Do you want the Weissach pack ? Only the 991.2 GT3RS has this as an option and there appear to be only a few cars without it .. Do you prefer classic more simple cars ? The early 991.2 GT3RS' did not have the Particulate Filter and have analogue style instrumentation and controls. For your everyday will the later front suspension of the 992GT3 make any real difference ? Would you want the Clubsport package ? You will struggle to find a 991.2 GT3RS without ... ?? Too many questions Yes Chris , this makes sense older .2 non Weisach , then Suspension set up ..oddly mine is a non club sport as I use the car and all the metal in the back gets in the way . Only do occasional track days as spend is kept for racing still. Edited by hunter 66 on Friday 5th January 11:58 Given the complexity who around the York area would be recommended to do a good track geo ?? I used to use Tracktorque in Tockwith but the last geo wasn't so good ? Redline racing in Stockton on Tees, not that far away?

isaldiri said: If it's primarily for track and you have no real issues with a dual clutch box (and presumably all the extra technological gubbins that are associated with that), you probably might as well go with the 992 gt3 because that will be the 'latest and greatest' so to speak, particularly as PAG have it seems somewhat shifted the focus of the GT cars more towards track performance and laptimes. Just rereading everyone’s comments, can you elaborate on the dual clutch technology, is it more than just a faster pdk gearbox?

ChrisW. said: Do you want the Weissach pack ? Only the 991.2 GT3RS has this as an option and there appear to be only a few cars without it .. Do you prefer classic more simple cars ? The early 991.2 GT3RS' did not have the Particulate Filter and have analogue style instrumentation and controls. For your everyday will the later front suspension of the 992GT3 make any real difference ? Would you want the Clubsport package ? You will struggle to find a 991.2 GT3RS without ... ?? Too many questions Is the particulate filter a problem in the later cars? And when was it introduced?

hardlylikely said: Just rereading everyone’s comments, can you elaborate on the dual clutch technology, is it more than just a faster pdk gearbox? Not sure I get your question I'm afraid. Pdk = dual clutch. My comment was more about since you're happy with the idea of a dual clutch compared to a manual, i was thinking (admittedly having driven almost every flavour of 991 I've never driven any 992 so I'm not sure I necessar get how clinical it may or may not be) you might as well go all in the brave new world of all that electronics (and specifically the variable electro/hydraulic differential only the dual clutch car has) give you in today's cars and go for the 992 which would be the most slick implementation of how all that is integrated to deliver performance.

hardlylikely said: ChrisW. said: Do you want the Weissach pack ? Only the 991.2 GT3RS has this as an option and there appear to be only a few cars without it .. Do you prefer classic more simple cars ? The early 991.2 GT3RS' did not have the Particulate Filter and have analogue style instrumentation and controls. For your everyday will the later front suspension of the 992GT3 make any real difference ? Would you want the Clubsport package ? You will struggle to find a 991.2 GT3RS without ... ?? Too many questions Is the particulate filter a problem in the later cars? And when was it introduced? Particulate filter on the GT3 platform was introduced on the 2019 Speedster and the same engine was used in the second batch of 991.2 GT3 RS… sometimes also referred to as 991.3. WP cars all fall into this range. These cars had particulate filter and revised exhaust system that goes to a single muffler, rather than the previous 3 muffler set up. These engines also got ITBs as part of the emissions and performance rework and it’s this same PU that is carried over to the 992 Cup cars and also 992 iteration of GT3, 3RS, S/T as well as 4RS, SRS. Edited by TDT on Saturday 6th January 10:56

I agree that the ability to adjust the suspension to suit the day or the road from the steering wheel is a real class act. My reason for not being excited by it is that I will most probably never be in a position to own one. That and the fact that it is not intended to carry luggage ... but a tour de force !

supersport said: ChrisW. said: hunter 66 said: ChrisW. said: Do you want the Weissach pack ? Only the 991.2 GT3RS has this as an option and there appear to be only a few cars without it .. Do you prefer classic more simple cars ? The early 991.2 GT3RS' did not have the Particulate Filter and have analogue style instrumentation and controls. For your everyday will the later front suspension of the 992GT3 make any real difference ? Would you want the Clubsport package ? You will struggle to find a 991.2 GT3RS without ... ?? Too many questions Yes Chris , this makes sense older .2 non Weisach , then Suspension set up ..oddly mine is a non club sport as I use the car and all the metal in the back gets in the way . Only do occasional track days as spend is kept for racing still. Edited by hunter 66 on Friday 5th January 11:58 Given the complexity who around the York area would be recommended to do a good track geo ?? I used to use Tracktorque in Tockwith but the last geo wasn't so good ? Redline racing in Stockton on Tees, not that far away? Thankyou ... yes I know Redline ... good thinking !

DomT87 said: I have a 991.1 3RS, a 992.2 3RS WP, and a 992 GT3. My fave on track is easily the 992.2 3RS, with the suspensions secrets handling pack it's incredible. ChrisW. said: I agree that the ability to adjust the suspension to suit the day or the road from the steering wheel is a real class act. My reason for not being excited by it is that I will most probably never be in a position to own one. That and the fact that it is not intended to carry luggage ... but a tour de force ! I think Dom may have meant 991.2 GT3 RS WP with the Suspension Secrets Handling kit.

DomT87 said: I have a 991.1 3RS, a 992.2 3RS WP, and a 992 GT3. My fave on track is easily the 992.2 3RS, with the suspensions secrets handling pack it's incredible. Great selection of cars, no surprise what your favourite is. What about pre that, how did the 991.2RS and 992GT3 compare on track?

I have a 991.1 3RS, a 991.2 3RS WP, and a 992 GT3. My fave on track is easily the 992.2 3RS, with the suspensions secrets handling pack it's incredible. Edited by DomT87 on Saturday 6th January 19:34

TDT said: I think Dom may have meant 991.2 GT3 RS WP with the Suspension Secrets Handling kit. 😅 much as I’d love to be a time traveller you are of course right, appears even some of us Porsche nuts can’t get the darn model names right!

hardlylikely said: Had my meeting with my salesman at local dealership, and surprise surprise, I can't buy a new GT3, as I don't buy enough cars. Ive read the 992 GT3 supertest report and wow, what a car, that really makes great reading, I truly didn't appreciate the degree of progress made over the 991. As suggested I need to drive both cars and see which one does it for me. Thanks for all advice. As has been said… your car is supremely capable as it is… Have a look it how it can perform vs latest and greatest 992 GT3 RS

enjoyed that video, fun.

DomT87 said: ?? much as I’d love to be a time traveller you are of course right, appears even some of us Porsche nuts can’t get the darn model names right! Why don't you post a pic of all these cars together you claim to own

It was interesting to see how early the white GT3 was on the throttle out of some of the corners ... and fast through Eau Rouge / Radillon ! Also interesting to see how he kept off most of the kerbs ... and both he/she and the 992 GT3RS run out after Pouhon ... mistakes are expensive

TDT said: hardlylikely said: Had my meeting with my salesman at local dealership, and surprise surprise, I can't buy a new GT3, as I don't buy enough cars. Ive read the 992 GT3 supertest report and wow, what a car, that really makes great reading, I truly didn't appreciate the degree of progress made over the 991. As suggested I need to drive both cars and see which one does it for me. Thanks for all advice. As has been said… your car is supremely capable as it is… Have a look it how it can perform vs latest and greatest 992 GT3 RS Did you see the vid where JC overlays the Porsche lap (991.2gt3) and he beat it by a second. I know he has K1 spec Cup2r's fitted and Manthey seup, but has steel brakes and manual vs pdk, so a good effort

MarkM3Evoplus said: Did you see the vid where JC overlays the Porsche lap (991.2gt3) and he beat it by a second. I know he has K1 spec Cup2r's fitted and Manthey seup, but has steel brakes and manual vs pdk, so a good effort Yes, he’s really good. So far the fastest manual guy around! Stock suspension and power so far. But has some little tweaks coming. Goes to show how capable these cars are and what they can do in the right hands.

Picking this old post up from the beginning of the year, im now ready sell my car and get into a 991.2 GT3 RS. Ive had a couple of reasonable trade bids that im ready to accept on my car, the market has really dropped in the last 6 months, but all good when trading up. So two questions, does anyone know this car https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/17532891I saw it advertised privately, and now with RPM, seems clean and genuine.any thoughts welcome. Secondly is there a glut of cars about to be advertised as the 992.2 gt3 becomes available to configure and order?

hardlylikely said: Secondly is there a glut of cars about to be advertised as the 992.2 gt3 becomes available to configure and order? There are 1200 992.1 GT3’s (991.2 was about 650 IIRC) in the country…the fact that Porsche have launched the .2 so early in the model’s life cycle tells you they want to shift a lot of them.

Cheib said: There are 1200 992.1 GT3’s (991.2 was about 650 IIRC) in the country…the fact that Porsche have launched the .2 so early in the model’s life cycle tells you they want to shift a lot of them. Yes its clear Porsche are now positioning the GT3 to deliver a bigger portion of the profits from the 911 range. As a consequence though it might speed up the arrival of a real hybrid car.

hardlylikely said: Yes its clear Porsche are now positioning the GT3 to deliver a bigger portion of the profits from the 911 range. As a consequence though it might speed up the arrival of a real hybrid car. Or there’s the fact that there are new emissions regs coming in and if the car doesn’t get ‘launched’ in 2024 then they will have problems with bringing it to market and have to tighten up the emissions even further which will cost more than a mild revamp of the current engine and the introduction of 4 cats etc. I’m sure they will build as many if not more than the last one if they can - and enjoy the profits - but there are some wider reaching regulations that are causing the manufacturers strife. Hybrid vehicles will meet the new regs hence the non-hybrid Carrera T will be launched shortly to beat the regs deadline while the Turbo/S - which are very profitable - are now launching later than usual schedule. N/A is a real problem and I’m not sure if we’ll see .2 3RS or whether a hybrid powered 2RS is going to be the replacement. 992.2GTS has been officially launched to show intent for hybrid but they’ve not been in a rush to ship any stock of this yet as they pump out the non-hybrid line up before deadlines loom. Doesn’t sound as good on the forum mind as Porsche profiteering by meeting pent up demand in what is already a pretty screwed up market.

Posting in here as hoping for porsche view on things and that video looks to me like Porsche drivers know how to have fun, i used to track an AMG GTR and Porsches were always the best to play with Excuse the long story but i m sort of working through my own issue here.. So.. ive had a 40 odd year journey with cars, started before i could drive, been on ph since Ted started it (because tvr) owned pretty much everything as i have a a very wide taste in cars, JDM, rally inspired, supercars, track cars, GT, custom, hot rod, etc etc, you get the idea. my 100 odd cars over these years have covered all these genres but my pinacle car was always to be a V12 lambo as i was a Countach kid loved porsche and ferrari to but lambo was to be my pinacle Built up over this period resulted in a collection of 11 cars which covered pretty much every genre, I built a facility to house them all as this was also part of my dream and it was brilliant, topped off with the purchase of a V12 Aventador, the dream was realised, then reality came to roost After a while, it (along with the dream property i built) became apparent that looking after all these possessions was more work than pleasure, they ended up owning me, i had less and less time to use them and became more & more obsessed with keeping the dream picture looking right. So we decided to get rid of as many possessions as we could, release all that time and get rid of many of the responsibilities (not about financial, just about time) & get back to freedom, and what to do with it. the release of time & lack of responsibility has been fantastic and we re having a ball, which in itself is conflicting with my car life! I explain all that so as to maybe explain how much the car in question means to me and why this is a harder car buying dilemma than ive had in a while, getting rid of the others was fairly easy as they were bought as toys, the main car i kept was the lambo, i love it and have covered 12k miles in my 4 years of ownership, done rallys and generally used it in the way it should, mostly on non uk roads to its max, only uk miles were to mot stations to have a place where i could use the cars without too much attention was important. But my relationship with the car and cars in general has (and are) changing / fading, call it what you like but i get as much joy from it sitting in the garage now as i do driving it, i m ok with that as i m getting older and we migrate to appreciating the smaller things that dont risk killing us But here s my thing, its an early std. 700-4 and i have the opportunity to buy a reasonably low mileage SV roadster in a colour i love, ticks all boxes (apart from seats i ll need to change) its double the money but not an issue other than i always like to get best out of what i m spending, an SV Roadster is undoubtedly going to appreciate more then the 700-4 but then again its in relation to 300k vs 160k, so would need to if putting the financial cap on, i cant see std 700-4 coupes (good ones) going down any more, only one way for them i think, opinions on that? Option 1 - sell 700-4 & upgrade to sv roadster, mines a coupe, so gaining a roof off experience with buying the SV Before option 2, understand, I feel ive lost my passion for cars and i m trying to find a way back.. i used to love modifying cars and expressing myself through personalising them, wheels, suspension, ecu upgrades etc but the last 10 years there s been none of it, ive always avoided Porsche & Ferrari due to the UK image around them tbh (wrongly or rightly) and yes i know lambo arent exactly squeaky clean but i use them mainly in europe, not uk, for the roads and attitudes being different. Option 2 - Ferrari Pista Spider, never owned a Ferrari (went multiple Maserati route) have that sat there for periodic use in the same vain as the SV roadster? i find great value in doing things for the first time and i think the pista is stunning, though not driven, but this option is not really for regular driving but pretty sure the actual dynamics will blow the socks off any Aventador, less theatre mind but i might be past that.. Option 3 - again, never having owned a serious porsche, do i go; collectable 911? GT3rs etc and actually use it as we ll be living in germany for a few months in spring and could attack the tracks there, see if this re-ignites my passion for cars, inject some fun back into things, i d keep the Aventador with this option Option 4 - again, keep the and go for something old school, ultima, noble, Sagaris, DeTomaso GT5 etc, modify it, track it in germany again, loads of options in this field, even LS7 powered TVRs, some models i never owned, also Noble m400 I dont know, maybe my car days have simply moved on and having the 2 daily s (DBS Superleggera volante, L405) are simply enough with something ultra special tucked away. Maybe me saying i want re-ignite my car passion, is just a different way of saying i want my youth back which is maybe a bit ridiculous Or maybe its what keeps as young, refusing to let it go and keep looking for stimulation? Sorry if this comes across as one big brag, its not to some and probably is to others but its not meant that way at all, since moving on and removing many of our possessions, its a proper decision as i wont just keep adding more & more (one is ok ) so i want to put in as much thought as possible, then again, nothing is permanent Thanks for reading and any input is appreciated Edited by Kerniki on Sunday 16th November 05:21

Option 4 sounds nice as a 'special' car for some driver days. >Option 4 - again, keep the and go for something old school, ultima, noble, Sagaris, DeTomaso GT5 etc, modify it, track it in germany again, loads of options in this field, even LS7 powered TVRs, some models i never owned, also Noble m400< most of those can be found for sale in Germany, although a LS7 TVR comes very very rare, but the nice thing is, you can build such yourself or better via a Sport Evolution chassis etc via Sportmotive. at this moment they have a Chimaera ready for sale, but if it was me I would choose it on a more rare Griffith base. Ultima is a bit much race, its a bit Track only I think, no winddown windows etc. de Tomaso GT5 is cool, but also wide, but... a crazy not often on the road to find and its pretty special as well, although I think a Griffith is more usable, also on hot days as Targa or Cabrio and almost every one likes the shape so thumbup. a Noble M400, also nice-ish but V6 engine not longitudinal and more difficult to find in LHD, but you can order something from the USA in LHD the 2.0 Noble-ish also in carbon and more power, I forgot at this moment their name, a Rossion Q1-R

GTRene said: Option 4 sounds nice as a 'special' car for some driver days. >Option 4 - again, keep the and go for something old school, ultima, noble, Sagaris, DeTomaso GT5 etc, modify it, track it in germany again, loads of options in this field, even LS7 powered TVRs, some models i never owned, also Noble m400< most of those can be found for sale in Germany, although a LS7 TVR comes very very rare, but the nice thing is, you can build such yourself or better via a Sport Evolution chassis etc via Sportmotive. at this moment they have a Chimaera ready for sale, but if it was me I would choose it on a more rare Griffith base. Ultima is a bit much race, its a bit Track only I think, no winddown windows etc. de Tomaso GT5 is cool, but also wide, but... a crazy not often on the road to find and its pretty special as well, although I think a Griffith is more usable, also on hot days as Targa or Cabrio and almost every one likes the shape so thumbup. a Noble M400, also nice-ish but V6 engine not longitudinal and more difficult to find in LHD, but you can order something from the USA in LHD the 2.0 Noble-ish also in carbon and more power, I forgot at this moment their name, a Rossion Q1-R Its certainly more toward my younger driving days and probably the cheapest variant of the options, I also love cars that punch above their weight and surprise a few people money isnt an issue but i worry about reliability with these older cars which can impact the fun somewhat, that would really annoy! option 3 is very similar in suggestion but a Porsche is more likely to keep me going and with finance hat on, less likely to cost as much, as an RS car probably wont loose anything if sold before summer ends. tyres, brakes etc obviously will cost on all of them, i ran an AMG GTR for track work so familiar with track costs and happy with that.. Width of cars i’m used to, really have a soft spot for the gt5 and its a very under stressed American V8, this car has been poking me for a while..

There's an obvious name missing here ... McLaren ... How about taking a leap into the future with a McLaren Artura and an electric hot-hatch for the city ?

ChrisW. said: There's an obvious name missing here ... McLaren ... How about taking a leap into the future with a McLaren Artura and an electric hot-hatch for the city ? Should have said, 720 is one of the 11 I got rid of, actually used it as one of the daileys, which is a compliment really, nothing like the theatre or love I have for the Lambo, great cars but almost too useable I guess

Kerniki said: ChrisW. said: There's an obvious name missing here ... McLaren ... How about taking a leap into the future with a McLaren Artura and an electric hot-hatch for the city ? Should have said, 720 is one of the 11 I got rid of, actually used it as one of the daileys, which is a compliment really, nothing like the theatre or love I have for the Lambo, great cars but almost too useable I guess Personally, I think the Porsche PDK 'box is far superior to McLaren, especially on track. Okay, they don;t have 700+hp, but a 991/992/718 RS will feel exciting, work beautifully on track and not see you too badly on residuals. I used to run TVRs, to the point I still actually dream about driving them, but honestly, today, I think I'd struggle to go back to one. I'd sooner go for a proper classic - aircooled 911 or a nice old Jag.

Kerniki said: Should have said, 720 is one of the 11 I got rid of, actually used it as one of the daileys, which is a compliment really, nothing like the theatre or love I have for the Lambo, great cars but almost too useable I guess if you haven't tried a Ferrari with that fleet you've had, tbh you're missing something not to at least try it someday. Say with a gt3 or rs tbh. the modern mid-engine ferrari is a pretty impressive bit of kit tbh and it's engineered (if not made) pretty neatly - their turbo is imo anyway, a lot better calibrated than Mclaren although you still have that 'turbo softness' in the throttle vs a good NA engine. or at least once you can get used to the overly short throttle that Ferrari like to have so the driver tends to over input the throttle especially at lower speeds (i think that's intentional and it's ferrari's way of making their cars feel more 'exciting'). in particular the pista/speciale vs the standard f8/488 type of car.

isaldiri said: Kerniki said: Should have said, 720 is one of the 11 I got rid of, actually used it as one of the daileys, which is a compliment really, nothing like the theatre or love I have for the Lambo, great cars but almost too useable I guess if you haven't tried a Ferrari with that fleet you've had, tbh you're missing something not to at least try it someday. Say with a gt3 or rs tbh. the modern mid-engine ferrari is a pretty impressive bit of kit tbh and it's engineered (if not made) pretty neatly - their turbo is imo anyway, a lot better calibrated than Mclaren although you still have that 'turbo softness' in the throttle vs a good NA engine. or at least once you can get used to the overly short throttle that Ferrari like to have so the driver tends to over input the throttle especially at lower speeds (i think that's intentional and it's ferrari's way of making their cars feel more 'exciting'). in particular the pista/speciale vs the standard f8/488 type of car. Not a bad call, but re-starts our 360 Challenge Stradale vs. 430 Scuderia vs 458 Speciale fight.

I hear what you’re saying, i lusted after a 360cs a few years ago but i think these now fall into sv roadster, pista territory £ wise? i’m not sure i’d be pressing on in any of them to be honest and finding my passion again, their condition and mileage sensitivity sort of prohibits fun (same with v12 lambos) which means they just get stored, which is ok for the SV roadster option as it still excites me sat there, no ferrari will do that for me apart from ‘maybe a pista spider’ but i doubt it, as it wasnt ever a dream car for me. Porsche is very good at holding value even if modded or used as intended, as long as its well maintained, mileage not a massive issue and i quite like the look of the madder later RS cars, i even lust for a 993 turbo, 964 3.6 etc, just the 996 era i really dont like, but the early cars are becoming too collectable to enjoy, maybe? option 2 - the pista is no longer in the running for me but maybe 488 spider can sit as a viable RS alternative? High milier thats been looked after so no longer a garage queen, use it and abuse it, modify it without a care in the world to values, will it hold our reliability wise like a modern porsche? i quite like the idea of going against the grain of most ferrari ownership and using it to death they’re very similar value wise to the 991.2 RS, interesting comparison and it leaves my current Aventador on the shelf as a very good example that might appreciate one day..

GTRene said: Option 4 sounds nice as a 'special' car for some driver days. >Option 4 - again, keep the and go for something old school, ultima, noble, Sagaris, DeTomaso GT5 etc, modify it, track it in germany again, loads of options in this field, even LS7 powered TVRs, some models i never owned, also Noble m400< most of those can be found for sale in Germany, although a LS7 TVR comes very very rare, but the nice thing is, you can build such yourself or better via a Sport Evolution chassis etc via Sportmotive. at this moment they have a Chimaera ready for sale, but if it was me I would choose it on a more rare Griffith base. Ultima is a bit much race, its a bit Track only I think, no winddown windows etc. de Tomaso GT5 is cool, but also wide, but... a crazy not often on the road to find and its pretty special as well, although I think a Griffith is more usable, also on hot days as Targa or Cabrio and almost every one likes the shape so thumbup. a Noble M400, also nice-ish but V6 engine not longitudinal and more difficult to find in LHD, but you can order something from the USA in LHD the 2.0 Noble-ish also in carbon and more power, I forgot at this moment their name, a Rossion Q1-R There’ some good stuff in there GTRene, i’ll take a look at that Chimaera , been offered an LS7 Sagaris mk2 in rhd format so might look more seriously at that, uk rhd doesnt bother me at all as i have dual passports and cars i can rotate to keep inside the 3 month registration rules.

Kerniki said: GTRene said: Option 4 sounds nice as a 'special' car for some driver days. >Option 4 - again, keep the and go for something old school, ultima, noble, Sagaris, DeTomaso GT5 etc, modify it, track it in germany again, loads of options in this field, even LS7 powered TVRs, some models i never owned, also Noble m400< most of those can be found for sale in Germany, although a LS7 TVR comes very very rare, but the nice thing is, you can build such yourself or better via a Sport Evolution chassis etc via Sportmotive. at this moment they have a Chimaera ready for sale, but if it was me I would choose it on a more rare Griffith base. Ultima is a bit much race, its a bit Track only I think, no winddown windows etc. de Tomaso GT5 is cool, but also wide, but... a crazy not often on the road to find and its pretty special as well, although I think a Griffith is more usable, also on hot days as Targa or Cabrio and almost every one likes the shape so thumbup. a Noble M400, also nice-ish but V6 engine not longitudinal and more difficult to find in LHD, but you can order something from the USA in LHD the 2.0 Noble-ish also in carbon and more power, I forgot at this moment their name, a Rossion Q1-R There some good stuff in there GTRene, i ll take a look at that Chimaera , been offered an LS7 Sagaris mk2 in rhd format so might look more seriously at that, uk rhd doesnt bother me at all as i have dual passports and cars i can rotate to keep inside the 3 month registration rules. That Sportmotive Chimaera is also expensive, seems pretty loaded and high power. You can also buy a cheap RHD Griffith, bring it to them and make it like you like, incl RHD to LHD swap, its then more easy to do, all comes of, so easier to work on incl the RHD to LHD swap and 500-600 hp (depends on engine choice) sounds as good power for such Sportmotive Evo chassis build. You than also can upgrade the interior with nice materials and say a set Tillet bucketseats with fitting inlays, MMM, you can build a great sort fresh Restomod Griffith and give such much liked Griffith a second chance

GTRene said: Kerniki said: GTRene said: Option 4 sounds nice as a 'special' car for some driver days. >Option 4 - again, keep the and go for something old school, ultima, noble, Sagaris, DeTomaso GT5 etc, modify it, track it in germany again, loads of options in this field, even LS7 powered TVRs, some models i never owned, also Noble m400< most of those can be found for sale in Germany, although a LS7 TVR comes very very rare, but the nice thing is, you can build such yourself or better via a Sport Evolution chassis etc via Sportmotive. at this moment they have a Chimaera ready for sale, but if it was me I would choose it on a more rare Griffith base. Ultima is a bit much race, its a bit Track only I think, no winddown windows etc. de Tomaso GT5 is cool, but also wide, but... a crazy not often on the road to find and its pretty special as well, although I think a Griffith is more usable, also on hot days as Targa or Cabrio and almost every one likes the shape so thumbup. a Noble M400, also nice-ish but V6 engine not longitudinal and more difficult to find in LHD, but you can order something from the USA in LHD the 2.0 Noble-ish also in carbon and more power, I forgot at this moment their name, a Rossion Q1-R There some good stuff in there GTRene, i ll take a look at that Chimaera , been offered an LS7 Sagaris mk2 in rhd format so might look more seriously at that, uk rhd doesnt bother me at all as i have dual passports and cars i can rotate to keep inside the 3 month registration rules. That Sportmotive Chimaera is also expensive, seems pretty loaded and high power. You can also buy a cheap RHD Griffith, bring it to them and make it like you like, incl RHD to LHD swap, its then more easy to do, all comes of, so easier to work on incl the RHD to LHD swap and 500-600 hp (depends on engine choice) sounds as good power for such Sportmotive Evo chassis build. You than also can upgrade the interior with nice materials and say a set Tillet bucketseats with fitting inlays, MMM, you can build a great sort fresh Restomod Griffith and give such much liked Griffith a second chance It all looks very i’ve even asked if an order was placed, could they can get one ready for spring 2026.. I’m with you, would prefer a Griff as i had all the Chimaeras (4,4.3,4 & 5.0/.2) back in peninsula day but never a griff.. My main gripe would be the lack of rubber size at the rear as the std arches will only take a max of about 245 section, with 600hp you’d need a much bigger rear section 305 min i’d say, 245 fronts should be ok so as not to get ‘push’ causing understeer, plus some rear ballast would be needed to get closer to 50/50 weight distribution, big boots on both griff and chimaera though £85k for the one they have for sale is a tall order i think, especially when you can get a Sagaris for that kind of figure, in fact theres one for sale in germany for around £75k..

The chassis on the Griff/Chim used to flex, even with the claimed 300hp. I noticed huge increase in stiffness on my hillcimb/sprint Griff when I had a full cage fixed in. My car did have a few engine bit done to get it up to the factory output; cams, inlet plenum, throttle body, injectors. I also found brake bias tended to lock rears, exacerbated by the ridiculously huge engine braking. I fitted larger front brakes and a bias adjust lever (for wet weather alteration) and also put it onto Nitron adjustables. It was still a real handful and I can distinctly remember my first pax ride in a 996 GT3 (thanks to a PHer who still owns the car) at a wet Spa. It was a revelation - and I reaslised there was no real way of getting the TVR road chassis to work that way. Tuscan race car chassis was a different matter and I enjoyed driving those.

ChrisW. said: There's an obvious name missing here ... McLaren ... How about taking a leap into the future with a McLaren Artura and an electric hot-hatch for the city ? Eeek,i was in southern germany for the last 5 days,a mclaren garage had a lot of replacement parts and gearboxes etc,Artura was a feature. Interesting factory robots were stationary on a friday,two opc in stuttgart with lots of latest gt3 and rs,some with very nice special colours waiting to be snapped up!

Digga said: The chassis on the Griff/Chim used to flex, even with the claimed 300hp. I noticed huge increase in stiffness on my hillcimb/sprint Griff when I had a full cage fixed in. My car did have a few engine bit done to get it up to the factory output; cams, inlet plenum, throttle body, injectors. I also found brake bias tended to lock rears, exacerbated by the ridiculously huge engine braking. I fitted larger front brakes and a bias adjust lever (for wet weather alteration) and also put it onto Nitron adjustables. It was still a real handful and I can distinctly remember my first pax ride in a 996 GT3 (thanks to a PHer who still owns the car) at a wet Spa. It was a revelation - and I reaslised there was no real way of getting the TVR road chassis to work that way. Tuscan race car chassis was a different matter and I enjoyed driving those. >>brake bias tended to lock rears, exacerbated by the ridiculously huge engine braking.<< I had that the first time I took the Griffith out for a good drive like I did with say other sport cars... just shifting back like the other cars locked the rear wheels by engine braking of the Rover/TVR lump, but once had that, after knowing that, I learned and then never happened again. btw The Sportmotive Evolution chassis can handle way more power (then the 300 hp), its strengthened and suspension points way better and more, and yes I believe you that such cage (nice cage btw) can also make a good difference. About wider wheel/tire combo? no idea, a Griffith is not that wide, maybe while at it, make it wider, a wide body could even be more special, but be careful what sort you use, it would be a shame to ruin the lovely shape. But I guess with 5-7 cm at each side (pump it up a bit) of the chassis around the wheel/tire combo nicely done, could look awesome. a Griffith Evo

Yellow491 said: ChrisW. said: There's an obvious name missing here ... McLaren ... How about taking a leap into the future with a McLaren Artura and an electric hot-hatch for the city ? Eeek,i was in southern germany for the last 5 days,a mclaren garage had a lot of replacement parts and gearboxes etc,Artura was a feature. Interesting factory robots were stationary on a friday,two opc in stuttgart with lots of latest gt3 and rs,some with very nice special colours waiting to be snapped up! Yes, Porsche should worry about McLaren ... I'm now in touch with a lot of McLaren owners and the vibe I get is that the product is so good that the majority are happy to go with the development flow ... there is a lot to learn and many consider themselves to be a part of the evolving McLaren story. Kindness goes a long way ...

GTRene said: Digga said: The chassis on the Griff/Chim used to flex, even with the claimed 300hp. I noticed huge increase in stiffness on my hillcimb/sprint Griff when I had a full cage fixed in. My car did have a few engine bit done to get it up to the factory output; cams, inlet plenum, throttle body, injectors. I also found brake bias tended to lock rears, exacerbated by the ridiculously huge engine braking. I fitted larger front brakes and a bias adjust lever (for wet weather alteration) and also put it onto Nitron adjustables. It was still a real handful and I can distinctly remember my first pax ride in a 996 GT3 (thanks to a PHer who still owns the car) at a wet Spa. It was a revelation - and I reaslised there was no real way of getting the TVR road chassis to work that way. Tuscan race car chassis was a different matter and I enjoyed driving those. >>brake bias tended to lock rears, exacerbated by the ridiculously huge engine braking.<< I had that the first time I took the Griffith out for a good drive like I did with say other sport cars... just shifting back like the other cars locked the rear wheels by engine braking of the Rover/TVR lump, but once had that, after knowing that, I learned and then never happened again. btw The Sportmotive Evolution chassis can handle way more power (then the 300 hp), its strengthened and suspension points way better and more, and yes I believe you that such cage (nice cage btw) can also make a good difference. About wider wheel/tire combo? no idea, a Griffith is not that wide, maybe while at it, make it wider, a wide body could even be more special, but be careful what sort you use, it would be a shame to ruin the lovely shape. But I guess with 5-7 cm at each side (pump it up a bit) of the chassis around the wheel/tire combo nicely done, could look awesome. a Griffith Evo I picked my first Griffith up from Team Central TVR when I was 25. It was only a half hour drive back to my office and I was a bit surprised and perturbed why the salesman was on the 'phone shortly after to check whether the drive back was okay. It seemed 'over the top' customer service. It was only a good while later I was told that they'd previously lost a customer on their drive home. The Griffith 500 when it came out had the highest mortality rate of any sports car in Europe. What you are after is a Tuscan race car.

Digga said: I picked my first Griffith up from Team Central TVR when I was 25. It was only a half hour drive back to my office and I was a bit surprised and perturbed why the salesman was on the 'phone shortly after to check whether the drive back was okay. It seemed 'over the top' customer service. It was only a good while later I was told that they'd previously lost a customer on their drive home. The Griffith 500 when it came out had the highest mortality rate of any sports car in Europe. What you are after is a Tuscan race car. about the Tuscan Racecar, some come with road plates road registered, so that can be handy, but other than that, no winddown windows or roof, so maybe a bit much dry weather track car? ow, we are in the Porsche thread... lets not go TVR to much here

ChrisW. said: Yellow491 said: ChrisW. said: There's an obvious name missing here ... McLaren ... How about taking a leap into the future with a McLaren Artura and an electric hot-hatch for the city ? Eeek,i was in southern germany for the last 5 days,a mclaren garage had a lot of replacement parts and gearboxes etc,Artura was a feature. Interesting factory robots were stationary on a friday,two opc in stuttgart with lots of latest gt3 and rs,some with very nice special colours waiting to be snapped up! Yes, Porsche should worry about McLaren ... I'm now in touch with a lot of McLaren owners and the vibe I get is that the product is so good that the majority are happy to go with the development flow ... there is a lot to learn and many consider themselves to be a part of the evolving McLaren story. Kindness goes a long way ... You have me wrong,the artura was the feature with new parts being fitted and causing problems

Well wish me luck ... so far there have been none reported on our owner groups. Certainly the early 12C had known gearbox issues ... but the Artura has been out since 2022 and uses a gearbox from another well known manufacturer ... and it's not as-if Porsche aren't creating reasons for people to keep expensive OPC servicing and extended warranties ... particulate filters and turbo's, PASM's, historically gearboxes and engines ...

Yellow491 said: You have me wrong,the artura was the feature with new parts being fitted and causing problems The Artura has been badly plague by issues from day1. That mclaren still don't have an obviously clear grasp on just why by now (unlike the P11 cars which were fully sorted at the back end of 650/675 production 3 years in) doesn't speak highly of them tbh at all but hardly new or perhaps even unexpected.

isaldiri said: Yellow491 said: You have me wrong,the artura was the feature with new parts being fitted and causing problems The Artura has been badly plague by issues from day1. That mclaren still don't have an obviously clear grasp on just why by now (unlike the P11 cars which were fully sorted at the back end of 650/675 production 3 years in) doesn't speak highly of them tbh at all but hardly new or perhaps even unexpected. It's a great shame, because it's a nice looking car and a decent overall (contemporary) package. Even when the 'box is working though, it's not the match for the Porsche PDK. Having had a decent go in one (i.e. three 20 minutes on Silverstone GP circuit) I found it was a very easy car to like. Chassis and engine settings - road to track modes - worked well. The car was a nice size and I really like the styling being a bit more elegant rather than shouty supercar.

Digga said: It's a great shame, because it's a nice looking car and a decent overall (contemporary) package. Even when the 'box is working though, it's not the match for the Porsche PDK. Having had a decent go in one (i.e. three 20 minutes on Silverstone GP circuit) I found it was a very easy car to like. Chassis and engine settings - road to track modes - worked well. The car was a nice size and I really like the styling being a bit more elegant rather than shouty supercar. Easy to like is a good description i agree as they do (and always have imo) drive pretty well. You must have heard me drone on many times about the seating position being as good as any i've ever tried as well.... in many ways, it's peculiar how Mclaren get many things pretty much spot on but they just have a glaring miss on some other even more obvious things.

Nobody denies that the car was launched ahead of its time .. but searches show far fewer issues from mid 2023 when production was slowed to resolve these and prepare for the 2025 model year revisions. Take a good look around and see ... yes there are continual updates and upgrades ... and I'm guessing they suffer all the supply issues that other manufacturers do In the meantime from 2024 there has been widespread paise for the car and I speak as I have found ... and I looked hard before I committed. Having said that ... how foolish of me to compare a McLaren to a Porsche on a Porsche forum ...

ChrisW. said: Nobody denies that the car was launched ahead of its time .. but searches show far fewer issues from mid 2023 when production was slowed to resolve these and prepare for the 2025 model year revisions. Take a good look around and see ... yes there are continual updates and upgrades ... and I'm guessing they suffer all the supply issues that other manufacturers do In the meantime from 2024 there has been widespread paise for the car and I speak as I have found ... and I looked hard before I committed. Having said that ... how foolish of me to compare a McLaren to a Porsche on a Porsche forum ... Its got nothing to do with comparing ,the best road car i feel i have owned was the 675lt,but the problems are current and the detail gets left in a rush to build the things.The saga of my lt from ordering on was nothing short of a ordeal i never care to repeat and seeing the latest in a garage with all sorts of issues confirms my understanding things aint improved much.I really wish a great british product should be the benchmark for all others,but it seems those days are long gone.

Well I hope that those days are still to make --- your experience obviously accepted !! By comparison Harry Mecalfe rated all the cars he had driven in 2024 ... I'll let you guess what came top ... Or watch ?? Porsche did well ... He bought himself a 650S which after a year he eulogises about ... at Harry's Garage. Edited by ChrisW. on Tuesday 18th November 17:17

AMG GTR = cool and seems to be very fast on a lot of circuits, as a track car, but also as a from A to B fun car, although its not really compact. and ow, its a automatic, but on track and you want to be as fast as you can with the car, than thats a plus for those times.

Some great insights and prompts in there, thanks gents.. It has made me think that no decision needs to be made between an sv roadster and an additional fun car (usual man maths crap) so i will hunt down the right SV roadster and sell on my 700-4 coupe, tuck it away (as is the current one) then move on to adding a car to play with this spring, that ll mean 5 owned. I think 4 active cars is manageable with the SV properly tucked up in handled storage where they take care of all the time sapping stuff that made me get rid of the others, maybe only service it every 2 years rather than anualy? its strange but i feel i need that car sat there, some kind of trophy from my past maybe, who knows, i know i need it sat there, so i ll let it be for now.. Onto the fun car options The comparisons have got me looking again at what these cars in the mix can be, i m happy to spend 20k or 150k, it really doesnt make a difference which makes it an odd dilemma as ive always made sure any car i added to the garage had a role to play that meant it added value to our live; - classic - for dress up rallys and shows, - GT for euro trips - 4x4 dog duties and winter adventuring - track car - supercar for rallys - open top for for warm barmy night drives together You get the idea, but a track car just for playing with and not trying to be the fastest thing out there, bit different, especialy when upu have enough budget that it engulfs some of the quickest cars anyway, will they actually be fun? my amg gtr was fun but got boring quickly, are the track 911s really going to be any different? just for fun and trying stuff that ive never owned before gets interesting for me, the debate over 991.2RS vs 992 GT3 is very interesting for a Porsche newbie, with the latter pretty similar in price to the 991.2rs.. But then all the mclaren talk! you can throw the 600lt spider in there, i know i had a 720 but it was a bit clinical and a coupe, with having seen Gibbos volcano red alongside the 765lt recently, it held its own looks wise very well, sounded ace as well, so very tempted to go back as they are now 130k, thats a lot of car for comparable performance to the GT3 and RS, plus its roof comes off.. then there s 458 spiders, last of the n/a, pretty bullet proof and love their looks, buy a high miler for uner 100k and just cane the bejeezus out of it? or even a 488 for not much more, choices choices But i love the gnarly cheaper end of things to, love a car that punches above its weight, LS7 sagaris at £120k? Doubt that d get dropped on the straights.. i d probably get tired of being left behind on the straights in some of the others though , 500hp on reflection is a min as you really dont loose much against 6-700hp cars if its lightweight and handles reasonably., cheapest of these hitters is probably an R8 V10 manual, high miles £30-40k, thats a hard beat, play with geo etc and put some cup2s on? Heres a brief list of my thinking, biggest nagg is the porsche and ferrari itch £30-60k R8 v10 manual TVR Tuscan (4.3 rebuild 430hp ish) AC Cobra S2000 (superchared) Renault clio phase 1/2 V6 £60-100k TVR sagaris R35 skyline 570S NSX C7 Z06 AC cobra Gallardo Balboni £100-150K 600lt spider Gt3 RS 991.2 (2018>) Gt3 992 (2021>) 458 (coupe or spider) 488 (coupe or spider) Edited by Kerniki on Tuesday 25th November 03:29

GTRene said: AMG GTR = cool and seems to be very fast on a lot of circuits, as a track car, but also as a from A to B fun car, although its not really compact. and ow, its a automatic, but on track and you want to be as fast as you can with the car, than thats a plus for those times. Sorry Renne, no idea why that was in there as i ve already run one on track for 2 years, also the gtc which was a better car imo (lacked the variable tc knob mind) Seeing as this is the Porsche forum and seeing as there s so many desirable 911s suited to the job around the 100-150k mark. Take the money side out of the equation for a minute and all these were lined up and someone said to you, i will give you any one of these examples for free and maintain it for you at no cost, basically a completely free car and free from maintenance costs. 997 gt3/rs 997 gt2 991.2 gt3 991.1 gt3rs (no engine woes??) 992 gt3 Considering this is mainly for track play and that this is my first porsche, not massively bothered on track rimes but dont want to be annihilated on the straights I guess a short ownership re-sale could be factored into the suggestion and probably favours the older cars? Edited by Kerniki on Tuesday 25th November 04:04

At the risk of being ridiculed on a Porsche forum, how about a Lotus Exige 430 Cup? I had the earlier V6 Cup, 460bhp and it was a very quick track car on Yokohama AO52 tyres. Best front end trail braking I've ever experienced outside of a pure race car and really nice controllable oversteer on the limit, the traction control and ebd are really well judged. My current 500bhp Cayman may be slightly faster but the Exige was always more engaging and always an event to drive. Not the easiest to get in and out of though, but it will keep you young

And another thing..... What about a proper race car? It means trailering but if you've not experienced a proper race car with down force and slicks on track it will certainly be a fresh experience and lots of new stuff to learn! Radical would be a safe choice or one of the 2 litre sportscars from Norma or Ligier.

I Like Tea said: At the risk of being ridiculed on a Porsche forum, how about a Lotus Exige 430 Cup? I had the earlier V6 Cup, 460bhp and it was a very quick track car on Yokohama AO52 tyres. Best front end trail braking I've ever experienced outside of a pure race car and really nice controllable oversteer on the limit, the traction control and ebd are really well judged. My current 500bhp Cayman may be slightly faster but the Exige was always more engaging and always an event to drive. Not the easiest to get in and out of though, but it will keep you young Brilliant cars. Definitely on this list of "if not a Porsche GT then what else" cars.

Right at the end ... talk of a new Hybrid Mclaren ?? And worth a watch !!! The everyday supercar, now there is a new category

I Like Tea said: At the risk of being ridiculed on a Porsche forum, how about a Lotus Exige 430 Cup? I had the earlier V6 Cup, 460bhp and it was a very quick track car on Yokohama AO52 tyres. Best front end trail braking I've ever experienced outside of a pure race car and really nice controllable oversteer on the limit, the traction control and ebd are really well judged. My current 500bhp Cayman may be slightly faster but the Exige was always more engaging and always an event to drive. Not the easiest to get in and out of though, but it will keep you young as a track car for sure although I'm a bit less than impressed by the gearboxes on Lotus generally. they do handle beautifully and imo, probably 'better' than most Porsches. as a more 'road' going car, I really liked the evora GT430 sport tbh as well.

I Like Tea said: At the risk of being ridiculed on a Porsche forum, how about a Lotus Exige 430 Cup? I had the earlier V6 Cup, 460bhp and it was a very quick track car on Yokohama AO52 tyres. Best front end trail braking I've ever experienced outside of a pure race car and really nice controllable oversteer on the limit, the traction control and ebd are really well judged. My current 500bhp Cayman may be slightly faster but the Exige was always more engaging and always an event to drive. Not the easiest to get in and out of though, but it will keep you young I looked at these yesterday funnily but its what lead to me realising how pissed off i would be seeing 458/gt3s just walking off up the straights on the big tracks i ll be using, i get it for on smaller tracks and if i were on them then that would change my mind, seeing the 430cup vs pista video at spa really made me aware that 500 hp is a minimum, the lower hp cars in my first category just wont work on the tracks i ll be at. Something i did come across that id forgotten about in that cheaper bracket that punches well above its weight, the camaro ZL1 1LE, £50k, 650hp standard with a 7:15 ring time, sounds epic to, just needs to be manual as i think the auto boxes overheat. Just another thought..

Kerniki said: I looked at these yesterday funnily but its what lead to me realising how pissed off i would be seeing 458/gt3s just walking off up the straights on the big tracks i ll be using, i get it for on smaller tracks and if i were on them then that would change my mind, seeing the 430cup vs pista video at spa really made me aware that 500 hp is a minimum, the lower hp cars in my first category just wont work on the tracks i ll be at. Something i did come across that id forgotten about in that cheaper bracket that punches well above its weight, the camaro ZL1 1LE, £50k, 650hp standard with a 7:15 ring time, sounds epic to, just needs to be manual as i think the auto boxes overheat. Just another thought.. Yes, I take your point, although I've never been to a track fast enough where that's been a problem. I went testing at Millbrook once where there was a very long straight and with 460bhp it was doing 170mph and still accelerating before I braked. You can get a Komotec 490bhp kit for the 430 Cup, they're a German tuner and very well respected, UK agent is called Seriously Lotus, highly recommend them as well. As others have said the gearbox is the weak link, you can't rush the change, I speak as someone who was changing up from 4th to 5th at max rpm and 120mph-ish and got 3rd in my rush! That was quite an expensive repair, mostly labour to take the engine out and in, I remember the valves, rockers and followers from Toyota were a few £100, amazingly good value! Komotec also do a 7 speed sequential or a VW DSG conversion which fix any gearbox issues..

I Like Tea said: Kerniki said: I looked at these yesterday funnily but its what lead to me realising how pissed off i would be seeing 458/gt3s just walking off up the straights on the big tracks i ll be using, i get it for on smaller tracks and if i were on them then that would change my mind, seeing the 430cup vs pista video at spa really made me aware that 500 hp is a minimum, the lower hp cars in my first category just wont work on the tracks i ll be at. Something i did come across that id forgotten about in that cheaper bracket that punches well above its weight, the camaro ZL1 1LE, £50k, 650hp standard with a 7:15 ring time, sounds epic to, just needs to be manual as i think the auto boxes overheat. Just another thought.. Yes, I take your point, although I've never been to a track fast enough where that's been a problem. I went testing at Millbrook once where there was a very long straight and with 460bhp it was doing 170mph and still accelerating before I braked. You can get a Komotec 490bhp kit for the 430 Cup, they're a German tuner and very well respected, UK agent is called Seriously Lotus, highly recommend them as well. As others have said the gearbox is the weak link, you can't rush the change, I speak as someone who was changing up from 4th to 5th at max rpm and 120mph-ish and got 3rd in my rush! That was quite an expensive repair, mostly labour to take the engine out and in, I remember the valves, rockers and followers from Toyota were a few £100, amazingly good value! Komotec also do a 7 speed sequential or a VW DSG conversion which fix any gearbox issues.. Interesting, modifying was to be part of my journey, needs to be reliable mind so gearbox sounds a solution, trouble is, that little lot will be £20k on top of circa £50k for a car, at £70k it moves into the next category where there s other competitors like the 570s, with a stage one and sticky s it d be pretty damn close to the lotus and lose less at resale, modifying is a bugger for pouring money away, unless you can find one already done so someone else takes the hit Edited by Kerniki on Tuesday 25th November 11:34

Kerniki said: GTRene said: AMG GTR = cool and seems to be very fast on a lot of circuits, as a track car, but also as a from A to B fun car, although its not really compact. and ow, its a automatic, but on track and you want to be as fast as you can with the car, than thats a plus for those times. Sorry Renne, no idea why that was in there as i ve already run one on track for 2 years, also the gtc which was a better car imo (lacked the variable tc knob mind) Seeing as this is the Porsche forum and seeing as there s so many desirable 911s suited to the job around the 100-150k mark. Take the money side out of the equation for a minute and all these were lined up and someone said to you, i will give you any one of these examples for free and maintain it for you at no cost, basically a completely free car and free from maintenance costs. 997 gt3/rs 997 gt2 991.2 gt3 991.1 gt3rs (no engine woes??) 992 gt3 Considering this is mainly for track play and that this is my first porsche, not massively bothered on track rimes but dont want to be annihilated on the straights I guess a short ownership re-sale could be factored into the suggestion and probably favours the older cars? If it would be a Porsche, such 997 GT2 could be a monster on the straights with a little safe tune to say the 620 hp of a GT2 RS sort, seen some video's of such and on the straights also very fast. if its not a Porsche, last week I spotted a older model BMW M2 tuned to 740 or so hp, thats also fast on the straights, has also a manual and not bad on track I guess, although such GT2 would be a nicer tool, but also 3 times the price of say this M2, it does 100-200 km/h in 5,7s, not bad for 47k euro https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...

Kerniki said: Interesting, modifying was to be part of my journey, needs to be reliable mind so gearbox sounds a solution, trouble is, that little lot will be £20k on top of circa £50k for a car, at £70k it moves into the next category where there s other competitors like the 570s, with a stage one and sticky s it d be pretty damn close to the lotus and lose less at resale, modifying is a bugger for pouring money away, unless you can find one already done so someone else takes the hit Edited by Kerniki on Tuesday 25th November 11:34 You make a very good point, that's what killed the Exige for me in the end, I got a quote for the 7 speed race sequential with pneumatic paddleshift and it was, from memory, around £30k including fitting, I could buy a car for that I thought! Although I've been making the case for the Exige, I'm probably going to end up in a 992 GT3 myself, I really miss a NA engine and manual gearbox.

GTRene said: Kerniki said: GTRene said: AMG GTR = cool and seems to be very fast on a lot of circuits, as a track car, but also as a from A to B fun car, although its not really compact. and ow, its a automatic, but on track and you want to be as fast as you can with the car, than thats a plus for those times. Sorry Renne, no idea why that was in there as i ve already run one on track for 2 years, also the gtc which was a better car imo (lacked the variable tc knob mind) Seeing as this is the Porsche forum and seeing as there s so many desirable 911s suited to the job around the 100-150k mark. Take the money side out of the equation for a minute and all these were lined up and someone said to you, i will give you any one of these examples for free and maintain it for you at no cost, basically a completely free car and free from maintenance costs. 997 gt3/rs 997 gt2 991.2 gt3 991.1 gt3rs (no engine woes??) 992 gt3 Considering this is mainly for track play and that this is my first porsche, not massively bothered on track rimes but dont want to be annihilated on the straights I guess a short ownership re-sale could be factored into the suggestion and probably favours the older cars? If it would be a Porsche, such 997 GT2 could be a monster on the straights with a little safe tune to say the 620 hp of a GT2 RS sort, seen some video's of such and on the straights also very fast. if its not a Porsche, last week I spotted a older model BMW M2 tuned to 740 or so hp, thats also fast on the straights, has also a manual and not bad on track I guess, although such GT2 would be a nicer tool, but also 3 times the price of say this M2, it does 100-200 km/h in 5,7s, not bad for 47k euro https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id... They do intrigue (m2) but 740hp must strain the gearbox somewhat! Theres a lot of appropriate porsche metal on cc tomorrow (992 gt3, gt3 touring, 997 gt2 and a manthey 991.2 rs) a 992 gt3 went through historics auction today which i almost won for 124 + commission (17k) I ll see, another consideration is a 991.2 gt3rs will lose less money than the 992 gt3 but cost the same to buy, same performance but the rs will be more suited to the track work and short ownership i intend (unless i fall in love obviously ) Also, going with the Ferrari suggestion, theres a 488 spider going through…think,i’d prefer a 458 though if i was going to try that for the first time, think n/a would be a better experience in a ferrari.

I noticed you listed the 991.2 GT3 RS in the "£100k-£150k" band. How realistic is that, though? I do agree they'll better evade the un-lubed dildo of depreciation than the 992 GT3, though.

PorkInsider said: I noticed you listed the 991.2 GT3 RS in the "£100k-£150k" band. How realistic is that, though? I do agree they'll better evade the un-lubed dildo of depreciation than the 992 GT3, though. May be a squeeze, bit like the dildo and most likely a high miler, which doesnt bother me really if the right price, i do have the whole of europe to scourer as i can get to anywhere fairly easy from my position. Jack henry (who ive bought from before) has one at 159 & not even high miles http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2025110877... Strangely (if it doesnt go into RS £ territory) this intrigues me, many would be scared off by the lack of warranty etc but the tuner is well respected i believe? or has at least been around a very long time.. i love its looks being a 90s boy, the hre wheels i love. Something id love to do more this spring in germany is drag racing as well as some track days, this wouid certainly do the former better than an RS, but the aventador i have ‘could’ drag race quite well, not sure how long it’d last mind https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2020-porsche-9... Edited by Kerniki on Sunday 30th November 05:33

That white RS is similar price and mileage to the one I bought from JZM a few weeks back. I honestly can’t grumble at the bang-for-bucks. Almost nothing needs canning, other than geometry, to get it working well on track. I like the sound of the 2018 car better than the extra emigre on the 2019. In terms of alternatives, was with a mate yesterday who’s having a very tasty E90 M3 built by Mumbray. You’re still looking at similar money for a decent build of that sort. Not cheap, but I know a few with E46 and E90 M3 track cars and they are such brilliant track machines.

Digga said: That white RS is similar price and mileage to the one I bought from JZM a few weeks back. I honestly can t grumble at the bang-for-bucks. Almost nothing needs canning, other than geometry, to get it working well on track. I like the sound of the 2018 car better than the extra emigre on the 2019. In terms of alternatives, was with a mate yesterday who s having a very tasty E90 M3 built by Mumbray. You re still looking at similar money for a decent build of that sort. Not cheap, but I know a few with E46 and E90 M3 track cars and they are such brilliant track machines. I hope you mean changing, if not you need to throw in you PH card I really do like the look of the 991.2 rs, in white looks good imo, if that jack henry one could be got for 150, do we think it d be a good buy? Very active night on CC for most variants - 991.2 gt3rs manthey (unsold) - 992 gt3 touring (manual) (sold 146) - 992 gt3 (manual) (unsold 130) - 992 turbo s (ems tuned) (unsold 124) - 997 gt2 - 488 spider (unsold 126) Bid on all but the 997, provisionally won 992 gt2 but done hold hope.. This did bring me to discovering (remember i m a Porsche newbie) there is a 991.2 touring GT3, whats that all about, just minus the wing? seems to be rare and commanding a premium? I d say 95% of auctions were unsold last night, bad time of year for selling i know but equally bad for buyers if the sellers remain unrealistic, plenty of bids and interest but expectations way to high i think. This guy ive bought from before and he s very good and this seems to be onr of the aforementioned 991.2 gt3 tourings.. https://www.johnhollandsales.co.uk/stock-list/2027...

Pricing is an odd one (GTRene) After last night it got me looking at euro pricing, normally everything is much more costly here but germany in particular its pretty much the same as the uk, i know home country and all that but still.. are things tough in germany in this sector right now? £150k gets me this, which on the face of it looks to match the uk, if i then drop down to where i live in france on the south coast, they’re about €20k more expensive, so could be a canny move, something i used to do with Vettes and Integrales a long time ago.. https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/porsche-992-911...

Kerniki said: Pricing is an odd one (GTRene) After last night it got me looking at euro pricing, normally everything is much more costly here but germany in particular its pretty much the same as the uk, i know home country and all that but still.. are things tough in germany in this sector right now? £150k gets me this, which on the face of it looks to match the uk, if i then drop down to where i live in france on the south coast, they re about 20k more expensive, so could be a canny move, something i used to do with Vettes and Integrales a long time ago.. https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/porsche-992-911... Germany is a good source to look if it stays in the EU (registering) at the end of the year some even throw in lots of discount, around 20% I saw for a lot of cars. the car you show here seems like a good price as well and yes, it seems the market is flooded with cars, many are around for years. I guess it even hits the GT3 market, many GT3 variants to choose from, 996 GT3 mk 1 and 2, 997 GT3 mk1 and 2, 991 and 992 so yes, still great cars, some want the newest models so when older are dumped, and prices still high the market gets smaller, so at some point prices also will come down with some exceptions. I also see many expensive cars not reaching wat sellers had in mind at auctions, some bring there cars 4 times in 1 year I saw when I followed some interesting cars... they had a bid say 240k and would not sell, then 180 or so then 140 or so in the end sold at 120k... something like that for some Porsche Restomod. and a week back some buyer of a Donkervoort D8 GTO-JD70 got one for a good price, that one also was brought on 3 times. so deals can be made, even including auction cost prices, which in some cases are ridiculous me thinks, but hey, it can be a nice way to sell 'fast' in some occasions.

GTRene said: Kerniki said: Pricing is an odd one (GTRene) After last night it got me looking at euro pricing, normally everything is much more costly here but germany in particular its pretty much the same as the uk, i know home country and all that but still.. are things tough in germany in this sector right now? £150k gets me this, which on the face of it looks to match the uk, if i then drop down to where i live in france on the south coast, they re about 20k more expensive, so could be a canny move, something i used to do with Vettes and Integrales a long time ago.. https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/porsche-992-911... Germany is a good source to look if it stays in the EU (registering) at the end of the year some even throw in lots of discount, around 20% I saw for a lot of cars. the car you show here seems like a good price as well and yes, it seems the market is flooded with cars, many are around for years. I guess it even hits the GT3 market, many GT3 variants to choose from, 996 GT3 mk 1 and 2, 997 GT3 mk1 and 2, 991 and 992 so yes, still great cars, some want the newest models so when older are dumped, and prices still high the market gets smaller, so at some point prices also will come down with some exceptions. I also see many expensive cars not reaching wat sellers had in mind at auctions, some bring there cars 4 times in 1 year I saw when I followed some interesting cars... they had a bid say 240k and would not sell, then 180 or so then 140 or so in the end sold at 120k... something like that for some Porsche Restomod. and a week back some buyer of a Donkervoort D8 GTO-JD70 got one for a good price, that one also was brought on 3 times. so deals can be made, even including auction cost prices, which in some cases are ridiculous me thinks, but hey, it can be a nice way to sell 'fast' in some occasions. Interesting, not much risk taken at auction if buying a late 992 under porsche warranty (as long as servicing is up to date) Any recommendations on german auctions?

Kerniki said: GTRene said: Kerniki said: Pricing is an odd one (GTRene) After last night it got me looking at euro pricing, normally everything is much more costly here but germany in particular its pretty much the same as the uk, i know home country and all that but still.. are things tough in germany in this sector right now? £150k gets me this, which on the face of it looks to match the uk, if i then drop down to where i live in france on the south coast, they re about 20k more expensive, so could be a canny move, something i used to do with Vettes and Integrales a long time ago.. https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/porsche-992-911... Germany is a good source to look if it stays in the EU (registering) at the end of the year some even throw in lots of discount, around 20% I saw for a lot of cars. the car you show here seems like a good price as well and yes, it seems the market is flooded with cars, many are around for years. I guess it even hits the GT3 market, many GT3 variants to choose from, 996 GT3 mk 1 and 2, 997 GT3 mk1 and 2, 991 and 992 so yes, still great cars, some want the newest models so when older are dumped, and prices still high the market gets smaller, so at some point prices also will come down with some exceptions. I also see many expensive cars not reaching wat sellers had in mind at auctions, some bring there cars 4 times in 1 year I saw when I followed some interesting cars... they had a bid say 240k and would not sell, then 180 or so then 140 or so in the end sold at 120k... something like that for some Porsche Restomod. and a week back some buyer of a Donkervoort D8 GTO-JD70 got one for a good price, that one also was brought on 3 times. so deals can be made, even including auction cost prices, which in some cases are ridiculous me thinks, but hey, it can be a nice way to sell 'fast' in some occasions. Interesting, not much risk taken at auction if buying a late 992 under porsche warranty (as long as servicing is up to date) Any recommendations on german auctions? No, not specific German auction sites, but they can be find often here collectingcars.com you can favorite cars to follow and you than also see if they were there before, a handy site I think, you need a credit card on this one, which I do not use/want... so sometimes I hate it that I can not bid lol, but sometimes for the best. for the rest I look at some Dutch auction sites but those are way smaller, so cars that I look out for not often pas by on those, but collectingcars is good for such. of course also great sites for info and pictures under and in cars is bringatrailer.com, but thats mostly in the USA, although there is now also such in Germany or working also with Germany... although most cars still come form the US so extra costs.

Thanks, sure, use CC a lot and it does have a pretty good euro spread of cars, was just wandering on german specific auctions.. i bought from MM Automotive once (in Hannover) and they were watching german specific auctions and bidding live whilst i was there collecting my car wish i d got the info Eta: route66 auction have sold a couple of my cars for me, they’re pretty good to deal with if you havent.. Edited by Kerniki on Saturday 6th December 11:07

On another note that i shared over on the gt4rs thread. I have been and tried a gt4rs and even though 120k now, it doesnt do anything for me when compared to the 991gt3 rs (.1 or .2) Seats my back wouldnt fit in vs the buckets in the 911, maybe they were touring versions of the seats in the rs that i sat in? the gt4rs ones seemed visually narrower.. Anyhow, attention has turned to a C7 z06 as a viable alternative, going to try one this week, i have owned a few C5, C6 cars and admired (but never owned) the C7 Z06, with cup2s on i reckon it might be close to the RS performance, Misha rates them and the later cars had improved radiators to eradicate overheating issues.. (the ZL1 1LE still intrigues me)

Kerniki said: Eta: route66 auction have sold a couple of my cars for me, they re pretty good to deal with if you havent.. ah yes, I follow them as well, I believe you don't even need a credit card there, goes by bank as well, so thats a plus (for me) its also in the Netherlands, although not close to me being on the other side of the country, but yeah always nice to see what they offer in classics.