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YOUR RESEARCHPCCB Warning
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Install (or the parr equivalent)
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
A lot of us GT3 boys have them fitted (or the Parr equivalent)
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Ive just fitted Alcon gen 2 steel brakes from JZ Machtech...better performance than the ceramics with Pagid pads....still no joy with Porsche though...
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Suggestion · Original poster
Thre road test cars are refurbished by porsche every time they go out...it would be very interesting to find out how often Porsche change the PCCB discs/pads on these cars!!!
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Suggestion
When I was at Manthey 2 weeks ago, it was said that they have to change the PCCBs after every race.
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Suggestion · Original poster
I think replacing with steel must be the way to go any more views on this?
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Ive just fitted Alcon gen 2 steel brakes from JZ Machtech...better performance than the ceramics with Pagid pads....still no joy with Porsche though...
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Suggestion · Original poster
Thre road test cars are refurbished by porsche every time they go out...it would be very interesting to find out how often Porsche change the PCCB discs/pads on these cars!!!
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Suggestion
If there were genuine problems with the earlier set ups (ie not down to mis-use or external damage), then it's a shame that Porsche haven't been more supportive, as it will inevitably damage some people's confidence in both PCCBs and Porsche.
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42 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Porsche Club GB: 1 discussions
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Generation: 20261026T052503Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
PCCB Gen One are hopeless - mine failed after 15,000 (mainly road) miles on my GT2...Porsche are of course blaming me!
The carbon surface of the disc separated from the underlying silicon carbide and then destroyed the pads (which were approx 60% worn) after approx 40 miles. I have reported this to the UK Department of Transport as a safety issue as Porsche UK are totally uninterested - other than confirming that even brand new pads can be destroyed in 120 miles once the surface of the disc has failed. There is no warning other than the pad replacement light illuminating (indicating 1/3rd of the pad remaining at that time). Once this light illuminates Porsche say the car is fit to drive gently...but with no warning noise and pad failure within 40 miles this could be lethal....
Quite apart from the ridiculous cost of replacing the discs and pads (Porsche UK quoted over £10,000) there is the ongoing question of why these discs fail so quickly and at such low mileages...when launched they were supposed to last at least 100,000 miles and were "designed for extreme use on the road and Track" now they are wearing out Porsche are apparently blaming the failures on the drivers.
I hear that the Gen Two PCCB wear almost as quickly when hot...so beware!!
Anyone with a similar story please contact me at [email removed] I have photographs of the failures if anyone is interested.
Forget the PCCB and change to steel. Check out this kit for a little over £2000.
http://www.carnewal-europe.com/cpx_p96172.htm
Or maybe just put GT3 front rotors on, which are same fitment.
Ive just fitted Alcon gen 2 steel brakes from JZ Machtech...better performance than the ceramics with Pagid pads....still no joy with Porsche though...
Sorry to hear that you've had problems with your early generation PCCBs.
I know two users who are very pleased with theirs and, after lengthy discussions with my service manager and Porsche GB (and AG), I've spec'd the latest PCCBs on my next 911. IMO, the potential benefits justify the initial cost, so we'll see if the latest (3rd ?)generation are as good as I have been assured.
Try quizzing Porsche on how many failures they have had....I know one specialist who has replaced 70 (yes seventy) sets of ceramics iin the last year.....I was pleased with mine till they failed at 15,000miles....email me and I'll send you the photographs...
Each generation has got better, but still expensive for track use, but maybe now OK for the road, will have to wait and see.
For sure you cannot generalise about the mark 1 failures as applying to today's version. Has anyone any evidence of failures of the current mark 3 sets?
The 997 GT3 Cup cars in the Supercup, run the latest generation PCCB set up. The the main benefit being cited is longevity - some teams claiming they last a season.
If there were genuine problems with the earlier set ups (ie not down to mis-use or external damage), then it's a shame that Porsche haven't been more supportive, as it will inevitably damage some people's confidence in both PCCBs and Porsche.
When I was at Manthey 2 weeks ago, it was said that they have to change the PCCBs after every race. AFAIK the PCCBs in the 997GT3 are no different to the generation 2 used in the 996.
The new GT3 brochure refers to PCCB as being lightweight, powerful, robust. (the first two are true, the jury is still out on the third) and goes on to add that they offer shorter braking distances in even the toughest road and race conditions (no mention of longevity). Let's hope this doesn't turn into another saga like RMS.
Here is teh damage to the offside disk (outer face)..forums/rennlist.com have more pictures...theres a suggestion taht the initial damage may be caused not just by overheating but by ABS "hammering" the suface ogf teh disc causing failure??? anyone heard anything about this?
I guess that's a no Paul. I would be surprised if the ABS is adding to the problem. Another local club member trashed his low mileage 996 Turbo X51 PCCB's at an airfield high speed event. They are not quite so bad as your photo example. Porsche do not want to know, blamed his driving technique.[
] And all he expected was to be able to stop the car from 170mph twice!
Porsche are being dreadful on this....I assume secondhand values will be greater without PCCB and people will stop specifying them new...Porsche will lose their unique selling point of engineering integrity...they should just admit the PCCBs are not up to the purpose for which they are designed....an dreplace them with steels.
Most of the 997s sumitted for Road Tests (esp 997TTs and 997GT3s) have PCCBs fitted, and the various journalists don't seem to make any adverse references to durability.
However, the latest 997GT3 and GT3RS brochure, and the internal technical bulletin, suggests that the latest specification PCCBs are significantly improved over earlier applications.
They say that the system is under continuous development, citing, improved cooling, new vent geometry, greater structural stability, new drill hole pattern, lighter six piston callipers at the front and four at the rear, larger dimension front discs, improved construction methods, modified front to rear brake bias, etc.
In other words, enough to suggest that the latest specification has been optimised, but perhaps indicating that there were short comings with the earlier specifications.
But, if some owners believe that they have been victim of a manufacturing/design defect, and they are not satisfied with Porsche's response, then the only way forward would be to get an expert opinion on the failure, take professional advice, and perhaps commence a group action against Porsche.
Thre road test cars are refurbished by porsche every time they go out...it would be very interesting to find out how often Porsche change the PCCB discs/pads on these cars!!! Any subversive Porsce mechanic want to let us in on the secret?
Can porsche offer any particular techniques for improving the performance? Presuambly the develpment drivers didn't find a problem but then they would have done lots of miles in a short time, could issues be age related, damp related? Maybe test drivers get them hot every time while normal road use will not generate enough heat to dry them out?
Tony
Hi Paul. Sorry to hear about your unbelievable news! Go back to steel? Yeah, you could try that - you could also try getting a different car. Honestly, the more I read this forum, the more I am amazed at what happens to these "bullet proof" cars which - lets face it - cost us anything between £35K and £100k to buy - if you're (lucky?) enough to buy a new one! My 996 is just over 3 years old and has done just over 17k miles; the rear discs are knackered - pitted with rust and generally crap. "Oh, they all do that, sir - it's a character of the steel". "I don't think you're drying the brakes properly after you've washed the car, sir". Please, help me now! The reason that the discs are knackered is because Porsche now produce cars which are both stacked high AND sold high with low-grade steel and high grade prices - a truly unique combination! People say to me - "Well, at least you've chosen the best and most reliable of the super cars!" My God! I dread to think what Ferrari and Lambo owners have to endure!!? Flogging on handover from the dealership, maybe? Don't get me wrong; I love my car, I just cannot believe some of the things that routinely go wrong with these things - and even more so, cannot believe some of the self-reassuring excuses that their owners come up with when they do. Ten large for new brake discs!? Paul, take your car to your OPC, give the keys to the ridiculously pretty receptionist and tell them to call you when it's fixed - FOC.
Best of British!
Adrian,
Just looked at your profile and I'm guessing you're like me and passed the age when birthdays are a reason to be happy!!! The threat of a large bill from an OPC is not exactly the kind of Birthday present any of us want I guess...[&:]
Forget the car, have a few drinks and chill for the rest of the day mate![8D]
Cheers Watty! No matter what the day - justice WILL prevail!!! It's one thrirty on Friday and I've just got up!! - Must have been a good one?! Love the cars - just don't like the bull***t that comes with them!! Great to see that there's companies out there who (hopefully) are training people to realise that the customer is still important! - Which I'm sure you do?! I love using -, (, ), ?, and !. Eat your heart out, Lynn Truss! (!) Adrian.
My comment on the original thread re PCCB,
Recently I have deliberately
not
bought a 996 Turbo S because it
has
PCCB as standard (but have bought the newest Turbo with the spec. that I want (with the X50 kit, aero kit, sports suspension etc) instead.
Having gone through the RMS syndrome with my last 996C4(GT3 kit), I didn't want another (possible) problem to niggle what is normally a most enjoyable, rewarding driving car ownership experience. (My view was to buy a modern Porsche with no regularly commented upon niggles or vices that I could use every day... i.e. TT. or GT3 with no ceramics as there is no evidence that the 997 has cured the RMS problem).
Despite these hiccups, after 18 years of Porsche ownership it just gets better.
Comment has been made about GT3super cup cars using PCCB, but they don't in the british series!!??
I think that when Porsche fit PCCB as standard (apart from GT2) to a "normal" business users porsche, in a market that has a longer warranty than in the UK..(ie all of them), we can be assured that they will have acceptable longevity.[:-]
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
