running costs

I am thinking of buying a 996, C2, tip tronic. I have seen a nice T reg model with 47,000 on the clock at my local dealer - normally I would go private, but I really want the support of a dealer, this being my first 911. Can anyone give me a running cost overview ?? servicing - how often, how much ? tyres - how long how much ? Also any specials (such as cam belt changes) at what mileage, and how much ? Thanks Jon

Minor service every 12,000 miles. If you do less than this per year, then every 2 years you must perform a service and change the oil filter. People on low mileages seem to perform annual servicing anyway. Major service every 24,000 miles. If you do less than this, then every 4 years you must perform a major service. 12,000 mile services are about £300-350 at an OPC I think. 24,000 mile services are about £700 at an OPC I guess. You can get the servicing at about 60% of this, if you use an independent. The polyrib belt has to be changed every 48,000 miles. (Don't know what this costs.) Note that this is not the timing chains (which would require taking the engine apart), this must be the external belt that drives all the ancilliaries such as steering pump, air-con, etc. Also every 48,000 miles the spark plugs require changing. These 2 would be on top of the cost for the 24K service. Every 96,000 miles the transmission oil is changed (manual and tiptronic). Every 2 years the brake fluid is changed. At 4, 8 and 10 years the airbags are checked (then every 2 years). The bodywork comes with a 10 year warranty. The warranty can be extended to 10 years or 100,000 miles (c. 800 per year I believe), but if it has lapsed, it may not be easy to reinstate it. Tyres are about £200 each for the rears and $160 each for the fronts. They last about 12000 for the rears, maybe 15-18,000 for the fronts. If you drive gently or mainly on motorways you will get more, if you go on a track you will see a lot less. Brake discs and pads wear, that's the price for all that stopping power. 4 discs + 4 pads would be something like 700 I guess. Life expectancy varies depending on usage. Clutches wear as well, but not excessively. About a grand to replace at an OPC, but that shouldn't be a problem for you. Most of the bits that wear out are designed to be replaced, so the costs are not too outrageous. If any of the big bits fail, such as engine or gearbox, then the costs are 4 figures, pushing 5 figures if you need a new engine. Peace of mind from the extended warranty is worth the money if you can get it. If everything goes smoothly (which is should), then it is no more expensive to run than many cars costing a third of the price. Insurance depends on your circumstances, but if you use it every day, then you will be in 4 figures. Around town I guess you would see 18 mpg, out of town around 25. Use optimax, bp ultimate or esso 97 super unleaded. Getting the suspension properly setup is more than £100, since there is more to it than just doing the tracking. You might want to get this done occaisionally (like once per year, unless you hit a lot of potholes or kerb it).

Wow Thanks for all the info. As you say not that much more than a 'normal' car. Jon

Hi John Not to decry Stuart's execellent advice in any way, but if you go down the independent route for servicing it's even cheaper than he suggests. My chap (www.wrightune.co.uk) charges the following for servicing: 12,000 - £120 24,000 - £200 48,000 - £250 96,000 - £300 You will find similar fixed prices at most of the independents (JZ, etc). Of course, you will lose the chance of a Porsche warranty, but I believe you can keep the corrosion warranty intact by having a regular inspection at an OPC. If you shop around for tyres, they are much cheaper than at an OPC. I just bought a complete set of P-Zero Rosso N4's for £527 from Bracknell Tyres. If you are an old fart like me, use the car as daily transport, and have a reasonable record and postcode etc, insurance should be less than £700. Of course doing it like me you don't get the benefit of swanky showrooms and very nice coffee and biscuits, but you can make it a relatively cheap car to run with just as much driving pleasure. GO FOR IT!

Believe it or not - Sainsburys quoted me £500 (if i transfer NCS from my other car that i have with them and fit tracker)

Big Jon... are you from the TT forum?

No sorry - Jon

I should've added you'll need to get some Mobil 1. They all burn some oil. 1-3 litres per 6000 miles seems normal. (Porsche officially allow for much more, up to 1.5 litres per 1000 km, but if you get that much, I reckon there is a problem.)

Big Jon I am now 7 months into 911 ownership and can honestly say there isnt one negative aspect to comment on. Sure, I have had things that needed doing , but none of them were extortionate!. Brakes skimmed at OPC (£100) 36 month Service at OPC (£300) RMS (£250 as OPC paid half) Over the last 7 months the 911 has cost me less than my always reliable Audi Diesel estate, and thats saying something from a sportscar. Go for it ........you will not regret it........

Melun Everyone seems to have had the RMS refitted - what is it ?? and what was the problem ? Also I have read some articles on the internet about the 996 engine failing (for no reason) is there anything in this or is it just a couple of people blisting the internet ? So now to find a car - any ideas ? I would prefer not to spend more than £30k on an automatic coupe. Big Jon

Jon I DO hope this doesn't turn into another RMS or Engine Failure thread. There are already far too many on this and other forums. No, it's definitely NOT everyone who has the Rear Main Oil Seal changed, and an awful lot fewer who have had engine failures. However, it is an issue, but we don't know the actual size of it yet. Make sure that you check the service history of any car you view. If there is a history of regular RMS replacements, then it is very likely to happen again. If it has occured every 3-4 years then you can probably live with the £600ish bill for an OPC to replace it (less at an independent), but if it has happened every 6 months, then you probably can't. When engine failures have happened, they tend to be on lower mileage cars. Although they are not immune, tiptronics tend to be less prone to the RMS problem. If you are looking at under 30k, I suspect the choice will be restricted to 1998-1999 cars with 50000ish miles. If there is no history of RMS or EF, then you should be pretty safe. If a history file doesn't exist, treat it with suspicion. Also, get an independent inspection, which is a must - any genuine dealer will not be fazed by such a request. Don't be put off by higher mileages - mine has 60k and doesn't use a drop of oil between changes. You suggested in your original post that you wanted the benefit of buying through a dealer, and there are plenty of independents out there with the type of car you are looking for. I had a good result with Autobahn in Coventry, but get a copy of 911 and Porsche World magazine - there are plenty who advertise there. Good luck, and good hunting!

Minor service is about £370, Major about £650. All depending on parts required of course. Average MPG is about 24 but will go down drastically if you rag the car. If you are an ex volvo driver then you may even get 30MPG! Insurance is depending on a lot of things. Mine is £650 per year on a 2000 model C2 Cab. Clean licence, 10 years no claims. Merseyside!!. That's with Porsche Insurance services. Tyres: rear's always go first. You will typically go only replace your fronts on a 3rd rear axle set replacement. Obvioulsy if you track your car then things change. But it's a cab so doubt you will track it. I have 19" Goodyear GSD-3's on mine. They are not porsche rated although hevean only knows why not as they are for the 997 and I have used them now for 5 years without any problems and they last 20,000 miles! They cost about £200 each. All up if you have warranty it is a most extremely economival car to run....although residual prices make it clearly a most expensive car to own. If you dont have warranty and something big goes kaput, you may need to remortgage your house

20000 miles for tyres. Thats amazing. My PS2s last 3500 on the rear and double that on the front. I need to come to the Berny school of motoring...

Yeah I know its amazing. In 5 yrs and 4 months of owning this car I have only every changed the rear tyres twice. I am now on 56,300 miles. And I might add.....there was still life left in them when they were last replaced. Just that I got a great deal if I changed all 4 last time. Like I got all 4 Eagle F1 GS-D3 tyres fitted for £500!

My independent charges the following for 996 services: 12000 - £135 24000 - £240 48000 - £325 96000 - £385 I'll challenge anyone to find cheaper! My last pair of rear P-Zero Rossos lasted 14000, and the fronts look as though they will last about twice that long - no track days. I'm impressed by Berny's 20000. And Philip - 3500? That's equally impressive! I agree with Berny - these cars can be extremely reasonable to run, especially if you find yourself a good indendent. A full set of disks, pads and sensors can cost as little as £600 fitted, for example - probably 1/3 of OPC prices. The only time that they will cost you a bundle is if something major goes wrong, but that's the same with all Porsches - so if it worries you, get a decent warranty.

I'll second Richard's comment re independents. IMHO if you want your car to last then dont even think about going to an OPC for service. Independents know so much more about these cars and they are a hell of a lot cheaper. The only time I would be going to an OPC for service is during its warranty period.

I thought 3500 impressive too...but I honestly dont do stupid clutch burning starts or anything. I guess the old spirited driving takes its toll. Berny-that price for 4 tyres is a SERIOUSLY good price. My PS2s are £450 for 2. Might givr you a call next time round.

I have just been quoted by OPC £160 for the annual service as the car has done less thank 9000 miles since its last service even though this one is supposed to be a major service!!! I am booked in for 3rd Nov. Surely this is a mistake?

£160 is the Porsche "Menu" price for the annual inspection. If you look at the Maintenance Schedules in the Technical Articles section, you'll see what's involved - b*gg*r all really! Still, if you've got the extended warranty, they have you by the b*lls. Personally, I'd want the oil and filter changed at the very least. ("That will be another £120 please, sir").

Consider yourself lucky you have a choice.....I had one OPC tell me they didn't do annual services, and another insisted for 10 minutes I have a minor service done even though I only had 4k on the clock since the last major service..... As Richard said, the annual inspection is useless.

I am also trying GS-D3s for the first time on my C4 coupe and I have done 10,000 miles on them so far and they hardly look worn - amazing!!! OK, so I haven't tracked this one yet, but wet grip is brilliant (mine is a daily driver) and they also seem quieter than Rossos or Contis (hear the exhaust better!) Mine cost £530 all in for 4 on 18" rims - cheaper than the above as well.

Blimey!! I get 18MPG average on my C4S. If I drive like I'm taking my Gran to Church...I'll get 20+...but average is 18.x MPG. Hell, it does 18.6 average lapping the 'ring....so maybe I drive it too hard? Service is about £350 pa at the local OPC (just booked it in for it's second...I had a minor done at 1 year old as I didn't want to leave the same oil/filter in) including the oil filter change. Brake fluid change due this year also - another £113. My rear tyres lasted 18 months and 8500 miles...fitted another pair of Pilot sports bought from the OPC as they were the cheapest round here...at £545 fitted. The fronts won't make it to when the rears wear out next. I'd guess by springtime I'll be changing them.

I've done a quick analysis on running costs for my C4S and assumming that you are not financing the car, doing 8000 miles p.a., 20 to the gallon (on V-Power) it will cost you of the order of £7500 per year to run a 996 including depreciation. If you are financing the car that could rise to nearer £10000. This includes costs for insurance, tyres, warranty, Tax, consummables, and servicing. For comparison my other car a Citroen C1, which is probably one of the cheapest cars to run in the UK, would cost around £1900 for the same annual mileage and my last car, a Honda S2000, would be about £6500. Hope that helps Hilbert

Shit. I really didnt need to know that it is costing me that much....

And it seems you could double that if you have PCCB...............[ ][ ] Seriously, most of the real cost will be depreciation, and that will vary a huge amount with age. I reckon mine has gone down about £3250 a year for the last 2 1/2 years, and the total cost is less than £5000/year.

Running costs without depreciation ~ £3700 for 8000m.p.a of which £1600 is fuel. Cheers Hilbert ps. ignoring depreciation is just sticking your head in the sand. We didn't buy a 911 to save money but it is as well to know you can afford one before buying, otherwise it might spoil the enjoyment and turn the experience sour.

Either you bought it very cheap, or you know something I don't about selling it again!!! My C4 manual coupe (with factory -fit GT3, etc) has apparently depreciated by £22,500 in 21 months, according to an OPC (who shall remain nameless) quoting me a p/x value! OK, I have done 35,000 miles in it in that time, but methinks they are extracting the Michael [:-] Needless to say, we didn't deal...

Ian I bought it for £32000, 2 years 8 months ago, and I reckon it would be worth about £23-24000 as a private sale.

Hi Steve, You probably already know this but ill say it anyway....Make sure you get an OPC inspection when buying and IMHO you should get the extended warranty as this will offer peice of mind when driving. I failed to get an inspection when buying what was my first porsche (School boy error I know) and when it came for my first major service I decided to get the warrenty as well, but it cost me £3K to get it through the warranty test. [ ] Cheers Paul