Offered 13K for trade

Went to look at 03 C4S, 41K, Champion wheels, suspension, nav, with brand new clutch. I purchased two porsches from them before with no problems. Car was listed 38,900. Since I was there I ask what they would give for my trade-in. My car, 00 C4 cab, full leather, heated seats, and in fairly good condition for a 10 year old car. At 108K I knew my miles were high, that's the reason I'm considering upgrading. Comes back at 13.5. I almost threw up a little in my mouth. I can only imagine what my car will come in after a couple more years. I'm seriously considering unloading my car and getting a later model, something that would hold value. Car has been wonderful, just itching for something new. Has anyone else been low balled this bad?

Can you really say you got low balled? The market for 100k+ 996s isn't very strong. What can they get for it? Low 20s maybe?

Sounds like they want a premium price for the C4S and give you very little for your car. Nice deal for them if you do it. The C4S should probably be $30-$35K and yours $18K. Offer your car and $15K and see if they will take it. You will save some on the tax if you trade it in.

DOH !

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No, the wanted to give him $13.5 for his car. He'd have to come up with the $25k difference to buy theirs...

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$13.5K for your car should not have surprised you or made you feel sick. You should have done your research before you visited the dealer. If you were serious about buying the other car then you should have done a selling job on your car to get the dealer to give you a better trade-in allowance provided your research found the dealer's asking price for the car you wanted reasonable, which I can almost guarantee you was not reasonable, but inflated. To give you an idea of what you're car likely facing if you trade it in for the offer you received: Earlier this year traded in 06 GTO (39K miles and in very good condition) for $14.5K (negotiated this up from $13.5K) for a new 08 Cayman S (marked down from $62.6K to $50.6K). Made up diff in cash. A few weeks later I found the car on the local Chevy dealer's used car lot for $18999 *marked* down from $21999. (I could have sold the car for more money privately but I was not interested in doing so, not having the free time to show the car and deal with I'm sure everybody in town that wanted to come over and thrash the car. One reason I sold the car is everytime I took it in for service the dealer techs would joyride or hotrod the car. Caught 2 of them doing this. Funny but when I made the deal for the Cayman and the salesman got in the GTO to move it around back into the secure lock up he couldn't resist getting on the car. And a few days later when I visited the dealership the owner of the dealership came up to me and commented on the GTO's power. He test drove it. The car just brings out the beast in people.) Oh, Porsche salesman looked up the price of my GTO online -- same site I used -- and found the price lower by nearly $200. He questioned my number and I checked my notes and had the price I remembered written down. What happened was in the few weeks between the time I looked up the price and when he did looked up the price the GTO's value had dropped nearly $200. A later car might be more desirable, but not from a holding its value point of view. The later car will depreciate and probably at a faster rate then your current car. Your car can't loose too much more value -- provided it stays accident and problem free -- while a newer car has much more room to drop in value. Sincerely, Macster.

I know that's the way the game is played, buy low and sell high. I'm just amazed at how far and fast my car dropped in value. It's still an awsome machine

I talked to the original owners of my 40th. It was almost 90k new and they traded it in this september for 27k. Talk about ouch. 63k drop in 5-6 years.

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Not just your car... everybody's car is affected.

Plus you got to remember that a car with high miles will not be sold at the dealership. (At least not my dealership) They will give you wholesale and get rid of it somewhere else. In general you would be better off going to CarMax than trading in at the stealership. Although, they were about to offer me $35k for my Cayenne, and that's what I payed for it a year ago.

$18,000-$13,500=$4,500 profit not selling your car. Wow what a deal Good luck winning the lottery or saving enough so that the cost doesn't matter.

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It's actually quite the opposite... Your current car will be closer to holding it's value. It's probably worth $15k today and in another 5 years, it will only be worth a little less. The C4S you're looking at, while it might be $35k today, in another 5 years, it'll be a $15k car. If you really want a 996 that will come closest to "holding it's value" - get a GT3.

I don't think a 996 c4s will ever be below 20k, unless there is a story. It's more desirable on the used na 996 market than the 996 gt3 imo. It's often referred to as the best looking 996 ever made. Wish'd I had just kept mine, would have saved me a bunch of $$$.

For any car, crossing the 100k number is a big hit to value - both literal and perceived. For Porsches, which see lower usage than more mass-market vehicle, this goes double. Very few dealerships will keep a car with those miles, as the cost of reconditioning is too high related to what they can get for it. Additionally, having a nice late-model Porsche on the lot with a price in the high teens can hurt the value of similar cars they are selling for tens of thousands more. Not only do potential customers see a cheaper alternative, they also see the reality of depreciation. The dealer probably made you a fair offer of what they thought they could get for the car on wholesale at a regional auction with a little profit for themselves thrown in. Hey, capitalism is capitalism after all.

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There is a '00 with 32k miles with PSE that has been for sale here now for over 6 months and it still hasn't brought the $20k the owner wants for it. This car is exceptionally clean and has all records. It depends on where you are and the market there. Tony

Famine for some equals opportunity for others. If I knew I could get a 00 C4 Cab for $13k, I'd do it in a second.

You've got to remember that the bulk of the depreciation is done now. You can keep the car longer and lose less money on it. Your car is in the prime of it's life, enjoy!

Thanks for the class fellows. After reading all the inputs, I love my car even more now and probably never get rid of it.

I can easily see the over 100k mile 996s being $5k cars, parts cars and conversion cars in a few years. In a way it is mostly Porsche's fault by holding the cost of rebuilt engines so high. If a new engine was $6-8k instead of $12-14k the story would be different. Even $13.5k for an over 100k mile car with the original engine is wildly overpriced and quite a gamble for a prospective owner.

I also think the 997's are following the same pattern. Saw a 06 997 on autotrader, dealer wanted 41.9 withe 41K miles. Listed price was 81K. That's 50%, in dollors term, 40K in 4 years.

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Don't think this will occur. Last time I checked, a few months back, early MY non-running Boxsters were going for $3500+. Price had come down some from earlier this year from $4500. Runners go for more money, though even a runner has to look good (for its age/miles) and still have good and working subsystems like lights, top, A/C, heater, etc. A running 100K 996 with no serious accident history, no major paint or body work, I believe will never drop to $5K price point. Over time, normal attrition of the population of these cars helps to sustain the value of those that remain on the road. A $13.5 100k+ car is a bit of a gamble -- any used car is a gamble to some extent -- but the price makes it a reasonable gamble. If the car's in good condition and looks nice a new engine's not that much money, if a new engine called for. (Course as a buyer I'd try to get that price down as much as possible to make the car even less a risk to me.) But a new engine might not be called for. A 100K mile that stills runs good suggests very strongly the car's been taken care of and has a rather good engine. The real risky cars are the garage/driveway queens that have very low miles and some years on them and no warranty. The seller wants top dollar and could get it for his car and yet the low miles represents a not insignificant risk. Sincerely, Macster.

And this ladies and gentlemen is why it does not pay to buy Porsches brand new (uhh... not that I could afford to if I wanted to, in complete honesty). I bought a '77 911 years ago for $10k and sold it two years later for 11. Bought an '89 944S2 for $8500, drove it for three years and 30k and sold it for... $8500. Bought my 968 for $16k, drove it for five years and 50k and sold it for $11.5 last fall. The 968's value was hurt by the recent Boxster value collapse. In time I think clean 968s will be worth more than Boxsters simply because of their rarity - and the glut of Boxsters. Most Porsche models seem to have a sweet spot in value, the depreciation stops at a certain point. I suspect that this time I have bought a car a little before the sweet spot and it will depreciate over the next year or two. But if I keep the mileage reasonable (7-10k per year), and keep up with maintenance and appearance, I will stay ahead of the curve.

I'm new to the 996 world. But not to the 928 world. (I'll get to the relation in a few paragraphs) I have been seriously looking for a 996/7 for a few months. Been hanging around, reading, paying attention. I had to make a very hard choice, I wanted to move to a 99?, but at the same time will have to leave my trusted and reliable 928 behind (a deal with the wife, Don’t ask). I pulled the trigger on a 104,000 mile 99/996 with a aero kit for 16900.00. Its so new to me, its not even here yet. It seems this IMS issue takes no prisoners, it can happen at any time at any miles with out any warning what so ever to many MO's. What's my logic? I wasn’t about to spend over 20K for a car that has a known issue that destroys the engine at a minimum DIY cost of 8K to repair. It also seems many people agree the high mile cars are actually the better gamble to not have an issue. But even with all that said. The first thing that is going to get done to the car is the bearing retrofit from a non renn list sponser vendor. I'm a well equipt DYI'r, my cost will be less than $1000 and about 12 hours of time. And then I am still going to look for a service agreement. So, willing to admit it or not, this issues it KILLING the resale value of our cars. All the way from 1998-2005. The only thing that is going to maybe keep the resale value up is the performance of the car. This is what attracted me to the car. But as you see, I still wasn’t willing to gamble over 20K. The fact that Porsche did not step up and make a reasonable priced repair for this issue is very sad and not helping the situation. This was very dirty play on PAG's part in my opinion. Now its my opinion the car will head where the 928 did. It will end with a dropping value, an apparent bargain Porsche.. Rednecks will start to buy them, blowing the motors and not having the money to fix the bargain Porsche with the super-car repair price tag. They will sit in barns and back yards and rust away. The people that will own them will be the same type people that own the 928's: People that have a love for the car, not its value. I started eyeballing 996/7's about 1.5 years ago. I couldn’t touch one for under 30K. Once in a great while I would see one at 29,999. Now it is common to find them everywhere for under 20K.. I hate to be the one to inform you. With out Porsche stepping in with help to make right on your engines... You're screwed. They are going to do nothing. I have seen nightmare after nightmare of people trying to get help. They have simply turned their back on you. You guys with the low mile ones are riding something like the US real estate bubble. You are still pulling mid 20's for your car because the US has it pounded into our heads that a car purchase is all about low miles. That bubble is going to burst in the next few years. If you want out, Froggy better jump now. Because if its all about the $$ for you, You are on the RMS Titanic. If you are in it for the love of the car... You have a wonderful car with a few little quirks. I think the people who offered you 13.5 for your car are very well informed. They see a retail value of 16-18K that in in a freefall and doing so noticably by the week.

A lot of aggression in some of these posts... I'm currently drawn towards rear engined cars, which gives me very few options. I presume I'm not the only one, perhaps there's a correlation with the fact that it's hard to find a running 911 of any genre/year for under $10k. Also, the 996 has outstanding resale compared to many cars, a 1999 BMW 7 series that cost about the same when new can be had for $5k today...

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I agree!

After more thought on this whole situation. It is really up to the current owners to save the value of the cars. I think the best song to sing at this point is, instead of trying to hide the elephant in the room, You need to make the IMS a standard service issue. Every 50K the bearing should be replaced with the non-rennlist sponsors retro fit bearing kit. Much like the timming belt of a 928 should be done every 60K. The cost is reasonable not more than I would expect from a super car. Its up to you, Keep trying to hide it or expose it and treat as "normal service"

keep the cab and enjoy..... let others buy the new Porsche, I for one will never buy new unless I intend to keep it and pass it on to my kids. But, thats just me.

- Part of the problem is that the car you were interested in wasn't that high in value. Some places have almost an iron-clad proportion in mind where they won't give you a more than a certain percentage of what you're buying, no matter what it is. - Sometimes a low ball is simply a way of them saying, "We don't think we can sell your car fast, so we'd rather not have it....unless you're willing to just about give it to us." It's not just the value of your car, it's how fast they think they can roll it over. I wouldn't assume that an offer from a single dealer on a used car represents an entire market. That said, anyone who buys a recently produced car as an investment will likely have a rude awakening. With these cars, you're paying a lot for entertainment when you figure operational costs + depreciation. Often well over $10k per year. You could take a lot of trips or make a lot of genuine investments for $10k per year.

So in five to ten years whoever can come to market with a Subaru WRX engine conversion, LS series conversion, or heck even an 993 engine coversion will make a mint. Since none of these cars will be worth the money to repair and engine or trans. http://www.kennedyeng.com/vw_por.htm

I recently traded my 2003 C4S with 80,000 very well maintained miles. When new it was $ 93K sticker. Car looked as new inside and out....new tires.......... Porsche dealer offered me $ 23,000 and Mercedes dealer offered me $ 35,000. I went with a pre-owned Mercedes due to this better deal and also got $ 12,000 off on listed sale price on new purchase. Porsche dealer would only come down $ 2,000 on new C4S. I bought a pre-owned well maintained and low mile 2005 SL65 AMG at a great price and have NO regrets. Original list $ 191,000......bought for $ 64K with 3 year warranty... Kept my 1995 993 which is depreciating but not as fast as 996..... FYI...on market in Georgia, etc............good time to buy a high end car anywhere in the US.....be prepared to lose on one end with the trade-in and fight for deal on the other end.....really like the housing market.............

abiazs: Well put! 99C2

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Thats like being a cross dresser. I just cant bring myself to do that.

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Well, had I followed this with my 02 Boxster I would have paid for 4 and soon to be 5 IMS bearing services at God only knows how much per service vs. not paying anything cause at 227K miles car's original engine is still on its original IMS. There's no need to hide the fact the engine has an IMS. Were I putting my Boxster on the market I would stress the car's good service history and that it is still in such good shape means it has been well taken care and not abused or misused. Sincerely, Macster.

I used to see a dragster with twin turbo charged vw engines run a dizzying 1/4 mile. I wonder how much a guy could stuff in with that adapter. Would take some cross referencing but if you have the garage and always wanted dabble there are some options of frying a vw instead of a nice porsche engine. I'm sure there are junk yard vw engines laying around cheap. http://www.turbo-kits.com/20t_fwd_turbo_kits.html Oh yah not too sure how big of a bang the 400-500hp vw would do in the engine compartment.

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That is impressive and enlightening. How many other High mile no problems engines are here. ANd not I am not asking to be a smart ***. I am asking these people to chime in.

The car market is just crazy right now. I've spent the last month looking for a new car for the wife - and there were no deals to be had. Audi and MB were taking $500 off sticker and making me feel like I was taking food of their plate. In the process I drove a 06 Cayman S. Felt underpowered but really fun. For kicks I asked what the dealer would give me for my 2002 C4S, new PZeros, flawless in/out, Tubi exhaust, 49K miles. He came back with no money off the CS, and 22.5 for my 4S. F--- that. I've heard Porsche is running a sale on their engines right now - $9k for 3.6 X51s... I think as someone stated before - the lower price point for a replacement engine really makes keeping the car more appealing!

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Don't think you can count on those discounted engines being available for ever. They'll be sold and then the source of engines will be gone and prices for engines will climb. However, I don't think you should get rid of the car simply cause replacement engines may not be as cheap or readily available in the future when or if you need one either. Frankly and in my opinion these cars worth keeping cause they're fine cars and a pleasure to own and drive. Sincerely, Macster.

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I've seen some smoking deals on used Cayman Ss, low miles, in the high $30s.

I posted this in another thread but thought I'd share. I had been looking from March 2009 to Oct (purchased) 2009. I'm in Chicago and found a very very thin market. There just wasn't inventory so what I did find was priced at a premium (2000 C4 with 115k miles for $22k). I found comparable specs in California, AZ & FL (to name a few) and they went for 17-8k. There is absolutely a regional price swing due to a lack of supply. I bought an '01 C4 with 74k miles for $21k from a dealer in Boston and a car with the same specs sold at a dealer in Chicago for $25k. Might be worth to shop around.

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Agreed. I was looking in Chicago for a possible 996, but I settled on a Boxster S due to the fact that I could not find a 996 under $20k in Chicago. Granted, there were a few, but 95% were above that mark.