Purchasing a C4S

Hi all, I'm new to the forum. We sold our 2012 Cayman 18 months ago due to a serious health issue, which is now resolved thankfully. We are missing our Porsche and have decided to go for a 911 this time. The 996 C4S is our preferred option after looking into the financial aspect and long term ownership. We have a budget of around £25,000 and looking around it seems like we can get a decent age/mileage/condition C4S for this money. (We did consider going for a 997 Gen2 from an OPC, but after visiting one yesterday we were disappointed at the PCP plans they were offering. On an '09 Carrera at £36,000 they were asking for a £7,000 deposit, over £600 a month for 3 years with a final balloon payment of just £12,000. I thought the final payment was based on the guaranteed future value? £12,000 for a 10 year old 997???). So taking into account depreciation, interest charges etc, we are far better off going for an older vehicle, with the possibility of minimum or no depreciation? A no-brainer really? My question is mainly where to buy from? The OPC's don't have vehicles this old, so I'm looking at Independent dealers. I looked at one yesterday but it was not a recognised Independent dealer and I didn't get a good vibe from the place. I would consider looking at private sales but I appreciate there are risks involved. I'm guessing you experienced enthusiasts on here will point me towards reputable Independent Porsche specialists, which is probably what I'm swaying towards. However, I've no experience of any of these at all. If I did buy from one of these, is it still necessary to have an independent inspection done, or would the warranty give me a little bit of security? I have some other questions regarding the vehicle itself if that's ok. I am not sure about manual or tiptronic. Our Cayman had PDK which was fantastic, but I don't mind manual cars and I'm also thinking ahead a little regarding resale. I guess if the perfect C4S becomes available and it ticks all our boxes, but was tiptronic, I'd probably go for it, but I just wanted to get some opinion on this. Colour I am sure about, it has to be silver or grey with black interior. Optional extras - again I'm not sure, but I appreciate I'm just going to have to go with whatever it has, when I find a suitable vehicle. (Condition, mileage, history are more important). However, are there any "must haves" on a car like this? I would prefer heated seats, park assist and sports exhaust, but I realise I may not get any of those. The couple of salesmen I have spoken to so far have all been very dismissive of the IMS and other engine issues, and were keen to tell me that 996 C4S values are increasing rapidly!? Hopefully we will be able to find a suitable car very soon, we've been bitten by the bug again and there's no stopping us now!! Thanks for reading and sorry for a long first post. Phil

Hi Phil I bought my 2003 c4s in October of last year I paid slightly over 24k for mine it had nay covered 40'000 miles and is in immaculate condition for a 14 year old car. It is a tiptronic and I have no regrets buying instead of a Manuel. 25k should get something fantastic just check all the relevant issues like a independent porsche check, computer read out ,check all tyres have same n rating and as much porsche or indie service and parts history as you can. Ims bearing not a thing to worry about budget in your thoughts around 1500.00 to change if tiptronic is chose. Since I've had it the handling cornering etc is fantastic. Good luck with finding one it took me 5 months but worth the wait let us know how you get on where in the country are you some of the guys can point out good places to look

Wherever you get a car from, get an independent inspection carried out, worth the peace of mind for the cost. We used Peter Morgan, very comprehensive report with photos, and can give you ammunition to barter with if anything is found during the inspection. Where you are based depends on which independent sales specialists would be appropriate, but we have always been prepared to travel (when we sold our Carrera 3.2 and bought our 996 C2 October 2014 we visited four different counties). We eventually sold through 911 Virgin, Tom was excellent and the advert he wrote for our car almost made us wish we hadn't sold her! We bought from Northway, Slate Grey 996 C2 manual coupe with full black leather interior. We wanted manual, as we had been used to that with the 3.2 and just prefer the extra level of control over which gear to use when, probably could get used to driving a Tip in the same way given time, but it is a matter of personal preference. The car had just under 24k miles when we bought it, so very low mileage (it was registered October 2002, so just under 2k miles per annum). We also visited RPM Technik and Paul Stephens. We negotiated with Northway to replace the IMS bearing before we took the car as part of the major service they were carrying out, even thought the mileage was so low. We split the cost in a way that we were both happy with, and it has taken away some of the anxiety about the well documented engine issues. We are considering going down the Evans waterless coolant and lower temperature thermostat as an extra precaution at the next service (we always go to the wonderful Autostrasse in Coggeshall, despite now living in Buckinghamshire!), but other than that, we just enjoy driving the car. The 3.2 was fun, but in a different (retro, heavier) way.

Thank you both very much for your replies. We are in Staffordshire, but I don't mind travelling. I get free train travel due to the fact that I drive them for a living, so that's a help! I have been to one local independent, that was PCT in Coventry, which seemed a reasonable place. Whilst in Coventry I also saw another dealer, JR Motor Company. I didn't call in as it only had one car on the forecourt. I have seen a C4S for sale at Cridfords in Guildford, which is quite a distance but I may well go and have a look. It doesn't have parking sensors or heated seats though, which are not essential but we would have liked these. But it does have PCM, Bose & Xenons. I agree regarding the inspection, it's sure to bring something up that I wouldn't have noticed, hopefully nothing too problematic but as you say, something that would enable me to get back at least some of the inspection cost with a bit of haggling. Once again, thanks for the input, I've only just joined this club after having been in TIPEC previously when we had the Cayman. This forum looks great and I think I'll be spending some time on it.

Shirley's at Meridian are a good dealer to deal with and its on the way to PCT very friendly and helpful I purchased my car from there and would again. Can give you contact details if you require them

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-996/porsche-911-996-carrera-4s-tiptronic-s--full-porsche-opc-service-history--absolutely-stunning/5282957 this little baby came up

Thanks both. Will pop into Shirley's, it's only 10 miles away! That black 4S looked nice but it is sold when you go to their website. They certainly know how to prepare, photograph and present their vehicles though, very impressive and something a lot of other dealers could learn from.

If you decide to come to Cridfords, then I would suggest also Mortimers in Billingshurst and James Paul at Bucks Green. The latter two rarely get mentioned on forums, yet Mortimers get some cracking cars in stock. James Paul is mainly a BMW indie (and I have bought from them in the past), but also deals with other exotica now. I hasten to add both of these have C4S tips in stock, although outside your budget.

Thanks Tony. I've heard back from Cridfords and the car has had 8 owners, the last 5 they have dealt with. I'm a bit uneasy about that, should I be?

If you speak to Carl at Shirley's and tell him what you are looking for he can normal find what you require.

Number of owners is not always a bad thing. Some argue that owners put money in to their cars on first few years of ownership, so that could be considered a good thing. On the other hand it may put potential buyers off when you re-sell. If the the car looks good and is fully stamped, then not a problem. Cridfords have a good reputation and guess they offer warranty, my worry is you would need to travel back south to have any issues sorted should that be the case. Also check Northways in Reading - Ray is worth having a chat too.

Hi Phil I bought my C4s privately from an ebay advert No problems, have you tried Top Marques on line this site will have something to satisfy you I would always go for a tiptronic as you will be always changing gear Porsche sports exhaust is very desirable and cruise control ( but you can retrofit this for about £350) I find silver and black boring, mine is speed yellow and fantastic. IMS I suppose can be an issue but as I understand quite unusual Look at the exhaust boxes as they can split round the seams Good luck

Thanks all once again. Had a very interesting week or so viewing cars. Actually more frustrating than interesting. There are some well dodgy motors about! I've looked at some dealers but they've not been Porsche Specialists. Also looked at private sales but think I'm going to stick to Porsche specialists. It's almost giving me second thoughts after seeing what is available. I understand I'm looking at 12-14 year old cars, but where are all the cherished, well looked after ones??? I've contacted most of the well known Indy's but none of them got any coming in anytime soon. Might have to consider a 997 instead, but then the bore-scoring is a bit off-putting. Confused and frustrated...

Phil I am selling my 997 soon which is a good one with engine rebuild last year. If you are interested give my a call. 07971179120 mike

Hi I bought my c4s this time last year at 14k in speed yellow black leather all the extras too with 70k on the clock manual, loved every miles I put on her then sold it in November for 22k, great car only sold it when I found 996 turbo.

I would wait for a decent 996 you won't lose money on one. I hunted high and low and yes it was a pain but I'm glad I did

Think I started looking 6 months before I bought. Trawled all the usual motor websites. Even ebay have some gems, but you need to be quick. You also get an idea of the 'dogs' that never sell and seem to be too good to be true. Finally, decided that indie was the route to take with a trade-in and warranty.

Hi Phil, sent you a PM earlier today

Thanks all. I think I'll just have to keep looking and hopefully find a good one. I'm going to look at one tomorrow at a Porsche Independent. I'm hopeful it's going to be the one but I'm still not 100% comfortable that it's had 8 owners since 2002. However most people keep telling me that's not a problem. I guess if everything else about the car is spot on that's ok. It's got a very good service history and looks good in the photos, but I'll find out myself tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

Sorry, been really busy today and missed that. I'll take a look now...

Let us know how it goes, Phil. Definitely worth searching around and good luck!

Drove a 5 1/2 hour round trip yesterday.... On arrival we discovered that the front bumper, both doors, rear wings and rear bumper, together with the cills had all been resprayed. We were a little concerned but not overly until we noticed (after our test drive and as we were just contemplating purchasing it) that the passenger side wasn't done very well at all, you could see an unevenness in it, a sort of ripple effect, and a lack of deep shine. Also, all 4 alloys were not in a good state, although to be fair they did say they'd sort these. All of the paperwork (except for the service book) was still with the previous owner apparently. The interior was in excellent condition though and it drove very nice. Originally we had been a little put off by the fact it had had 8 previous owners, but we thought that if it was spot on in every other way it could be the one. We did love the overall look of it though and my wife was a lot happier with the C4S after driving it, however we couldn't really be comfortable with the poor respray job. Do you think we are being too fussy, or are there any C4S's out there still that haven't had nearly all the bodywork resprayed? We are quite down about it all once again. If we aren't going to be able to find a decent one then we'll have to think about something else, or nothing at all. Having had new or nearly new cars for the last few years, it's difficult trying to buy an old one. Maybe one will turn up that will change our minds, but I'm not that confident.

Sorry to here that Phil I always go by my gut feeling and if there's any doubt leave well alone. You could always give uber get a call that's where I purchased mine from. Ask for nick once I bought mine I had the geometry checked and it was out a country mile so I contacted them and they paid for the geometry by sending me the money. They might be able to help there on the net if you can't find them I'll dig out there number.

If you have doubt then walk away. The car was not obviously prepared by the dealer and missing documents. Whilst it is not uncommon for the PUs to be re-sprayed, the rest of the car sounds dubious at the sacrifice of poor workmanship. To be honest with you, these are the sort of cars that come through the auctions as p/ex and so you would save a few £K as trade price (if you are prepared get the car sorted). You are right to be fussy and there are some extremely good cars out there...

You are not being too fussy. I would walk away, as there must be a reason for all that respraying of the bodywork. The lack of any papers other than a service book may also indicate a history that the dealer doesn't want you to see. You want a car to be proud of and that makes you feel good every time you see it, rather than buying one where you see its faults which would be soul destroying. Better to wait and get a good one.

Hi Anyone that's had paint done for a genuine reason would have the Porsche approved repair details or a set of photo's/history detailing the work if it was perhaps an older car I wouldn't be put off by a car thats had paint if the history supported it openly & it's been done by a reputable paint shop, there are too many genuine cars out there to take a punt on unknown history. Karl

Thanks all, definitely going to wait for the right car. Not in any great rush. I'm sure we'll locate one soon enough.

Porsche 911 3.6 auto 2003 Carrera 4 S Tiptronic S, BEST COLOUR COMBO, ONLY 68K saw this one

Black, Tiptronic & Cat D. I'll pass thanks! (Nothing wrong with black of course, it's just that I hate trying to keep a black car looking good. Nothing wrong with Tiptronic either, I just prefer manual! Cat D is a different story!)

Romans have a silver c4s tons of history and a recent Ims bearing upgrade 55k on the clock priced at 26k I would be looking at this for sure looks stunning ??

Keep looking the right car will turn up. i spent 18 months finding mine. Stick to your main requirements and look for history. A few scrapes and stone chips are inevitable of a car of this age but still some good examples to be had

The hunt for a C4S is over... We've just bought a 997 C2S from Zuffenhaus who have been a breath of fresh air compared to some of the dealers we've been to. We are really pleased as all we really wanted was a nice 911 at our price point, it's just that the 996 C4S seemed the best buy, but it was difficult finding one. The 997 is a 2004 with 60k, it's had a Hartech rebuild in 2011 so that provides us with some comfort. It's in great condition but Zuffenhaus are still going to get the alloys refurbished and put a new clutch and RMS in. The spec ticks most of our boxes too, including the all important (for me at least!) PSE, PCM/Sat Nav, sports seats, heated seats, park sensors, sunroof, Bose, short shifter, PCCB brakes, 19" Sport Design alloys, and it's Seal Grey which we love. Thanks to you all for your help and guidance. I would also like to thank Tom at 911Virgin and Steve and Greig at RPM Technik who were extremely helpful and very professional. They both let me know when they got a vehicle in that I would be interested in, but the Zuffenhaus car was the one for us ultimately. I would not hesitate to recommend or use any of these specialists in the future.

Hi Phil, Glad you've found a car within your budget & spec you wanted..... Pictures please [ ].... hope to see you at SC if you're there on the Sunday! Will PM/email you with a contact number. Enjoy your car, Regards Paul (kasspa)

Hi Paul, Yes I'm hoping to get to Silverstone on the Sunday. I've looked at getting a photo up but it looks a bit of hassle, for me anyway! Thanks, Phil