Polite Haggling - Advice - Page 4 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

I'm considering going to see a 991 for sale with a dealer a few hours away. I like the car based on the advert, but would require a test drive (its a decade old and done 50K miles). The car i£55K, but I'n my opinion that is 5K above what it is worth retail. Also it has only one OPC service, the rest, all on schedule, are by independents (who exactly I've yet to establish) and this is not an issue if well reputed. How should I approach this with the independent specialist dealer? What is the polite way to go about this? Explain my thoughs when I first call them; or when I've looked around it; or after a test drive if then I'd like to buy it. I'm not about having to putting one over a dealer (I understand they are in buisness have to make a living etc) ... I'm aware another car will come-up ... and you only live once ... etc.

Be surprised if they move more than a few hundred quid on price.

5k is quite a gap in modern pricing IMO. A) If you want to maximise your chance of getting the car for something near what you want, go see it, do your diligence, show you’re serious. B) If you don’t want to waste 7hours of your time, call them and explain outline thinking upfront and that if it all checks out you’d be serious at £x. The latter saves you wasted time but makes it less likely you get the car. Your call. The rarer the car the more I’d do option A, if lotsa about, B!

Why are you even considering it if you think it is £5k overpriced? There must be a reason that, of all the cars out there, you chose this one? It is miles away, doesn't have Porsche history and it is overpriced? So why are you looking at it? Is it overpriced or over budget? What I am getting at is it must be the right colour? The exact spec. you want? Or both? And it is a Porsche, where options make the price more than anything. People pay £10k more for a PTS car in their favourite colour, or will happily pay £5k more for a car with PSE which only cost £2000 new, etc. But if they are must have options, they will pay it. Maybe the dealer knows what he has will get him his asking price or pretty close? Pick the phone up and speak to him, just be honest, say you love the look of it, ask if he has some wiggle room? Edited by Ed.Neumann on Sunday 8th June 10:50

I always compare dealer prices to wbac just to gauge the margin. Some are clearly so massively overpriced and not worth pursuing.

Thank you for all you responses. The car in question is a 991.2 C2 PDK with a few extras - so its hardly special. Its £55K and 46K miles. WBAC buy this at £41K; CarGurus 'trade' is circa £42K; various other source all around the same. So I'm very much of the mind its a £50K car at best.

Johnson897210 said: I always compare dealer prices to wbac just to gauge the margin. Some are clearly so massively overpriced and not worth pursuing. I was looking at an Alfa Romeo Guilia Quadrafoglio recently for sale as a private sale. It was going for £2k more than an Alfa main dealer one for sale, same colour, same spec, same year about 3k mileage more than the main dealer. I looked on wbac, Carwow etc so knew what they would get for a trade in (about £35k), they were asking £42k. Seller wouldn’t shift at all. I assume they either changed there mind or it didn’t sell because no way would someone pay that much private over what wbac offered.

What you’re asking for is confirmation others feel a car you’ve seen is overpriced. Can you post a link? If it’s with an OPC, they have the margins they work to, and regardless of what website you use to cross-compare, they won’t budge more than they feel they need to. If you feel your bid is £50k, try it. There isn’t a polite way of asking for a 10% reduction in price. They will either say yes or no.

If its on Autotrader you can see when it was first listed (by looking at the URL) and if you have the price tracker app, if it's been discounted already (and by how much). Saying all that it sounds expensive.

If you’re serious and you can afford the time go and see the car. I don’t think telling them you’re interested but need to test drive it, inspect it and also need 10% off is going to get you very far. Go and see it and it doesn’t hurt for them to know you’ve travelled a long way as they’ll be expecting a sale. Make your offer with the explicit conformation that you will place a deposit at that moment. They will probably counter but you have to be prepared to leave empty handed as they might not believe you’re serious about wanting a £5k discount until you’ve walked out. They might call you the next day… To get a good deal you have to be prepared to walk away. Also worth seeing if you can work out how long it has been for sale for. The Autotrader desktop plug in will tell you that if it is on there.

I bought a 996 turbo recently from an Indy, they had recently dropped the price by £5k, I now know that they like to turn stock over quickly, so I guess it’s timing / pot luck whether they will negotiate. I’ve always found being pleasant rather than confrontational goes a long way.

Johnson897210 said: I always compare dealer prices to wbac just to gauge the margin. Some are clearly so massively overpriced and not worth pursuing. Precisely, because that's the price you'll be pegged to once it's yours.

churchie2856 said: Thank you for all you responses. The car in question is a 991.2 C2 PDK with a few extras - so its hardly special. Its £55K and 46K miles. WBAC buy this at £41K; CarGurus 'trade' is circa £42K; various other source all around the same. So I'm very much of the mind its a £50K car at best. About 2 years ago WBAC offered me £32k for an 18 month old low mileage Cayman. I sold it to an OPC for £40k. They sold it, within weeks, for £48k. I cannot take their valuations very seriously, especially for Porsche. A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. In the case of WBAC, I've always found that to be very, very low.

I think the problem is that they want as near to £55k as possible so if you're asking for £5k off (~10%) you need to be quite a good negotiator (ie experienced, practiced) - it's not just about having a few tips to hand but also knowing how to play the game and use things like empathy and getting people on side. I would expect that if you've caught the dealer on a good day, you might be able to reduce the price by £2k. It does depend on how long it's been in stock, rarity, whether they have targets and when the targets are eg end of month etc. WBAC prices etc is nonsense. They're for people who need the money and will take anything. Try to sell a 996 Turbo to WBAC and you'll be lucky to get £10k. That doesn't mean you can negotiate an 80k miles silver 996 Turbo down from £30k to £20k unless you're some sort of negotiating genius - and if you were then you ought to get a job in B2B sales or similar. So be realistic on your expectations.

£5k off? They will tell you to FRO. TX.

I disagree ... it costs nothing to have a look at a car and at least have a view of whether or not it's right for you. At the same time unless the car is a commodity car, any seller would be suspicious of being asked to negotiate when you haven't even seen the car. Most are amenable to reason, if you can show them evidence of why you think your valuation is fair and you are prepared to make an offer based on that and back it up with an easy sale, then this can be seen as a reasoned negotiation between intelligent parties. There have been many times when I have walked away and received a follow up call in which a satisfactory price has been agreed, there have also been times when it has been agreed there and then ... and there have also been times when I have simply bought something else ... What does to cost to have that discussion ?

churchie2856 said: I'm considering going to see a 991 for sale with a dealer a few hours away. I like the car based on the advert, but would require a test drive (its a decade old and done 50K miles). The car i£55K, but I'n my opinion that is 5K above what it is worth retail. Also it has only one OPC service, the rest, all on schedule, are by independents (who exactly I've yet to establish) and this is not an issue if well reputed. How should I approach this with the independent specialist dealer? What is the polite way to go about this? Explain my thoughs when I first call them; or when I've looked around it; or after a test drive if then I'd like to buy it. I'm not about having to putting one over a dealer (I understand they are in buisness have to make a living etc) ... I'm aware another car will come-up ... and you only live once ... etc. 1. Decide on your max price for the car that you will not go over, irrespective of the stickler price 2. Offer that price saying that’s what it’s worth to you given the market and spec , and if they say no, wait a week, rince and repeat 3. If they sell the car in the meantime, you know your offer was too low While doing this: Examine life , the universe , your financial situation each week, and if you decide life’s too short and actually it’s the spec you want, just buy it for what the sticker price is anyway and know that you tried but they declined your offer.

Since you are a significant distance away from the dealer, my tactic would be:- Call them and try to build a rapport based around questions about the vehicle. Specifically concentrate on them explaining any faults on the vehicle (however small). Explain that you are very interested in the car & that you live a long way away & don't want to waste yours or the dealers time. Say you have a strict limit that you cannot exceed, no matter what. And that you understand if it’s not acceptable to them. Make your offer, based on the fact that you will give an immediate ‘over the phone’ holding deposit of £1000. And agree that you will come and collect on a specific date. Have a contingency plan…

churchie2856 said: Thank you for all you responses. The car in question is a 991.2 C2 PDK with a few extras - so its hardly special. Its £55K and 46K miles. WBAC buy this at £41K; CarGurus 'trade' is circa £42K; various other source all around the same. So I'm very much of the mind its a £50K car at best. I think it's a somewhat naïve viewpoint to base your opinion on what it's worth on WBAC and other buying platforms and trying to pin an amount based on what you 'think' the margin should be. They tell you what it's worth if you were to trade it in to an online platform that caters for, let's face it, less specialist vehicles than Porsches. They will therefore naturally under-value it as a trade purchase. But in addition, they do not tell you what the retail value is, which is driven by demand. To decide if the car is over-priced, research other vehicles listed for sale and compare. A dealer will not take £5k off the car if others are selling at £55k with similar spec - whether you think he should or not. But, saying all that - there's an old saying - if your opening bid isn't embarrassing to you then it's too high. You can always offer more later on, but you never again have the option to offer less. To haggle, simply be polite and honest. Call the dealer, explain your interest and the fact that you will buy it if a deal can be made. Tell him that you're at £50k. Expect him to be annoyed and possibly terminate the conversation.

Muzzer79 said: churchie2856 said: Thank you for all you responses. The car in question is a 991.2 C2 PDK with a few extras - so its hardly special. Its £55K and 46K miles. WBAC buy this at £41K; CarGurus 'trade' is circa £42K; various other source all around the same. So I'm very much of the mind its a £50K car at best. I think it's a somewhat naïve viewpoint to base your opinion on what it's worth on WBAC and other buying platforms and trying to pin an amount based on what you 'think' the margin should be. They tell you what it's worth if you were to trade it in to an online platform that caters for, let's face it, less specialist vehicles than Porsches. They will therefore naturally under-value it as a trade purchase. But in addition, they do not tell you what the retail value is, which is driven by demand. To decide if the car is over-priced, research other vehicles listed for sale and compare. A dealer will not take £5k off the car if others are selling at £55k with similar spec - whether you think he should or not. But, saying all that - there's an old saying - if your opening bid isn't embarrassing to you then it's too high. You can always offer more later on, but you never again have the option to offer less. To haggle, simply be polite and honest. Call the dealer, explain your interest and the fact that you will buy it if a deal can be made. Tell him that you're at £50k. Expect him to be annoyed and possibly terminate the conversation. Pretty much all of this. Also why are you even entertaining this car if you believe it is £5k too much? How does this car compare to others that are of a similar spec and age? WBAC et al are purely telling you what they will purchase a particular car at that moment in time, this has no bearing at all on the retail value.

HTP99 said: Also why are you even entertaining this car if you believe it is £5k too much? That was my point, why with all the 911's for sale, is it this one? Miles away, not got Porsche service history and £5k over priced? So what is appealing about it? To be honest, you sound like a pain in the arse customer ( meant in the nicest way and sort of joking) for a start you are wanting to pay £5k less? Are you going to forfit any warranty for that sort of drop and take it trade? You are also presuming the car is mint if you are making offers over the phone, yet it is 11 years old, so expectations probably a bit too high. When you get it all the way home, and start to find some niggles, which you will find on an 11 year old 911, and they say run it back so we can take a look, will you just nip it up there? If it is £5k over market value there are obviously lots of cars out there for less, buy one of those, and from a specialist nearer or private with OPC warranty. 991 prices I have been tracking, they are starting to fall, An 11 year old car should be £45k now, pre Covid 991.1 were this, so be careful. It is the start of summer, far less cars for sale and prices firmer because of it. The reality is, most of the cars for sale have been for sale for a long time now, because they were too expensive 6-12 months ago, and certainly are now. There have been some 60-70k mile Carrera S PDK cars for mid to high 30s for sale, but they sell quickly. Paying £15-20k more is always going to smart if you want out.

The problem is that the OP’s starting price is too low - near 10% off. That'll be eating into their profit and I'm sure the OP will want a warranty, the odd jobs fixed before delivery, a detail and the full customer experience. They're also likely to complain within 30 days after purchase and threaten cancellation/refusal of the car. The op might be able to get some off but quoting WBAC and trade prices will only get their backs up and make a potential deal fractious. Best to look at a cheaper car and pass on this one. If you can afford it, try getting a longer warranty, a full service, detail etc. and work with them - they might buy the car back off you if you decide to sell in the future.

Why are folk comparing WBAC and the like (Apples) with dealer and cars for sale prices (Pears) They aren't comparable in the slightest

Dimebars said: Why are folk comparing WBAC and the like (Apples) with dealer and cars for sale prices (Pears) They aren't comparable in the slightest It is mad that some do this, what WBAC may pay for a car has little bearing on what a) a dealer will have paid for the car and b) what a dealer should advertise the car for.

HTP99 said: Dimebars said: Why are folk comparing WBAC and the like (Apples) with dealer and cars for sale prices (Pears) They aren't comparable in the slightest It is mad that some do this, what WBAC may pay for a car has little bearing on what a) a dealer will have paid for the car and b) what a dealer should advertise the car for. I'd disagree, if I buy a car and then need out of it quick wbac is the value worst case but somewhat corresponding to what they can get at auction that week. If there is a large delta you are taking more risk. It is a loose indicator of immediate value in the market. I also find it useful to identify where dealer prices are clearly taking the piss not aligned to the market.

WBAC bases its prices on what dealers will pay at their auctions, most dealers don't want to buy an 11 year old 911 through an auction, why is it being put through an auction when good cars are snapped up by dealers who find it hard to buy stock direct from owners? These cars can easily need £5k, or more, to get them ready to retail, and may need another grand or two in bits doing once the new customer has bought it. I only just read back your reply and saw it is a 991.2 Carrera S. 50k miles, and £55k. Looking on autotrader there are only 6 991.2 Carrera S PDK cars under £60k and 5 of those are cabs. The only coupe is at Invictus, the white one at £58k. All the others are between £65-71k. So, the £55k asking seems a bit of a bargain. But call him and say you only think it is worth £50k and report back. You never know?

HTP99 said: Dimebars said: Why are folk comparing WBAC and the like (Apples) with dealer and cars for sale prices (Pears) They aren't comparable in the slightest It is mad that some do this, what WBAC may pay for a car has little bearing on what a) a dealer will have paid for the car and b) what a dealer should advertise the car for. Yes I agree when purchasing from a dealer. I might have started this wbac stuff off but I was talking about a private sale Alfa Romeo and a private seller asking for more than a main dealer and what WBAC will offer. For dealers I work on WBAC plus 10-15% as a ball part starting figure.

MB140 said: Yes I agree when purchasing from a dealer. I might have started this wbac stuff off but I was talking about a private sale Alfa Romeo and a private seller asking for more than a main dealer and what WBAC will offer. For dealers I work on WBAC plus 10-15% as a ball part starting figure. For a new car or one under warranty still maybe. But WBAC look at what cars are selling for at auction and work on adding 5% at auction. So, say that car is £30k at wbac. It should fetch £31500 hammer prices plus fees. That covers transporatation, running the auction etc. and should leave around 2-3% profit. It's a numbers game and they can get stock for their dealerships, pretty good model. The trader who paid £31500 would hope to do £600-1000 of prep work, wheel refurb, sorting any paint etc. So £32500. If he sticks it up for £35k he will have to pay vat on the difference, so 20% on the £3500 margin. Leaving £2800, take off the £700 vat, so £2100 profit. Obviously has to stick a warranty on that too. But would hope that warranty averages around £500 per car over the year. Leaving around £1600-2100. Sticking 15% onto a £30k WBAC would leave the dealer with around £200 profit to £300 loss after prep work and warranty cover. 10% is simply never going to happen. Edited by Ed.Neumann on Monday 9th June 12:41

Johnson897210 said: HTP99 said: Dimebars said: Why are folk comparing WBAC and the like (Apples) with dealer and cars for sale prices (Pears) They aren't comparable in the slightest It is mad that some do this, what WBAC may pay for a car has little bearing on what a) a dealer will have paid for the car and b) what a dealer should advertise the car for. I'd disagree, if I buy a car and then need out of it quick wbac is the value worst case but somewhat corresponding to what they can get at auction that week. If there is a large delta you are taking more risk. You expect to be able to align your purchase price with WBAC in case you need to get out of it? That's an insane expectation, especially at this price point and with this brand. Johnson897210 said: It is a loose indicator of immediate value in the market. WBAC prices are an indication of what WBAC would pay for a car. Not what the value of a car is. Here's an (extreme) example: A Ford Sierra Cosworth sold a couple of weeks ago for just under £20k at Iconic Auctions. Put it into WBAC and they'll give a few hundred pounds for it. Now, a Porsche isn't a specialised as a classic Sierra, but the principle is the same - it's not WBAC's target type of vehicle, so their valuation is lower.

Muzzer79 said: You expect to be able to align your purchase price with WBAC in case you need to get out of it? Johnson897210 said: It is a loose indicator of immediate value in the market. WBAC prices are an indication of what WBAC would pay for a car. Not what the value of a car is. For clarity I'm not saying I'd expect dealer value and wbac to align, else there is something wrong with their business plan, or the car. The delta is however a useful guide . ETA: and no doubt you can always find edge cases with unusual stock. But in the main if there is a huge difference between dealer value and trade (wbac) you are taking a much higher risk if you did need an immediate exit. Edited by Johnson897210 on Monday 9th June 13:05

Last time I bought a car I was looking at several advertised at different dealers. I took the WBAC values of each and compared to dealer RRPs, some were clearly overpriced based on auction value, it was useful to weed these out. As well as being less risky it means you don't get overcharged, not to mention is a great metric for trade ins. No wonder dealers hate it and keep trying to tell us it is nonsense.

Johnson897210 said: But in the main if there is a huge difference between dealer value and trade (wbac) you are taking a much higher risk if you did need an immediate exit. That risk is kind-of par for the course when buying this sort of brand and this sort of price point. The risk for the dealer is higher because tied-up cash, prep, tax, overheads and comeback repercussions are all higher on a Porsche than a Focus. Therefore the margin is higher. I don't think you can look at an (on-paper) £10-£15k margin and decide that is too much and the car is therefore over-priced. You can only compare to similar others on the market and what they're selling for.

Muzzer79 said: Johnson897210 said: But in the main if there is a huge difference between dealer value and trade (wbac) you are taking a much higher risk if you did need an immediate exit. That risk is kind-of par for the course when buying this sort of brand and this sort of price point. The risk for the dealer is higher because tied-up cash, prep, tax, overheads and comeback repercussions are all higher on a Porsche than a Focus. Therefore the margin is higher. [b]I don't think you can look at an (on-paper) £10-£15k margin and decide that is too much and the car is therefore over-priced. You can only compare to similar others on the market and what they're selling for.[/b] Yep and no matter what WBAC state, you have zero idea how much they actually paid for the car, not that it matters to the purchaser, it is the advertised price that matters vs what else is out there which is similar in spec, age and mileage.

^ not really interested in what the dealer paid for it though. Only interested in what it is now worth in the market.

Johnson897210 said: ^ not really interested in what the dealer paid for it though. Only interested in what it is now worth in the market. Which WBAC doesn't tell you, it only tells you what they will pay for it at that moment in time!

May as well go in and say my mate bought one for blahhhh for all the use it or quoting a WBAC price will do, because, no matter what, you ain t buying one anywhere close to what they are getting them at. Ohh and they don t care what flavour your financial soup is a month after your leave their premises. Just go in, be nice and ask nicely and that’s always the best approach, referring to this, that and the other will just get their back up I’d guess.

Thank you, all, for the responses - some interesting points made and duly noted. I'm going to call the dealer.

Johnson897210 said: ^ not really interested in what the dealer paid for it though. Only interested in what it is now worth in the market. But you are interested in what they paid for it, which is why you're looking up WBAC prices. The value in the market is measured by what cars are selling for, not what they are being bought for. You cannot expect to buy a car retail and then get out of it for anywhere close to that if you need to sell quickly. You cannot expect to buy a car for anywhere near trade money to mitigate the risk of needing to sell quickly. The only exceptions to this are perhaps at the very cheap end of the market, where the value of the margin is small or the very high end of the market, where some premium cars attract overs or similar. But not for £55k Porsches.

I called a dealer re a car a few months ago, albeit it was a £15k car not a £50k car. I explained why I thought it was a 13k car. I actually asked the dealer why they thought it was a £15 k car. I explained I would travel with a view to buying at £13k. They said no. I looked on autotrader a week or so later and it was £14 k. I just went no call no appointment and dropped in. I looked at the car did a test drive and said I would buy at £13k. They said no on the day but next day by phone, they called me and said yes. I felt not good about the deal and after sleeping on it said no. It's still for sale today about 2 months on.

cliffords said: I called a dealer re a car a few months ago, albeit it was a £15k car not a £50k car. I explained why I thought it was a 13k car. I actually asked the dealer why they thought it was a £15 k car. I explained I would travel with a view to buying at £13k. They said no. I looked on autotrader a week or so later and it was £14 k. I just went no call no appointment and dropped in. I looked at the car did a test drive and said I would buy at £13k. They said no on the day but next day by phone, they called me and said yes. I felt not good about the deal and after sleeping on it said no. It's still for sale today about 2 months on. So you offered £13k on a £15k car, the dealer agreed and then you backed out of it? Why?

I had two sleeps on it and I got uncomfortable with the dealer. Had he agreed on the day I would have the car on the drive now. The passage of time made me have second thoughts. The dealer was not very gracious about the deal, suggested he was doing it under an element of duress. So I said if we are both not sure let's not do it. Then he got insistant. I called him and said no and I was polite, thanked him for his time and his offer. Aplogised for taking his time and deciding not to go ahead. He told me I was a f##king time waster and a disgrace, and hung up on me.

cliffords said: I had two sleeps on it and I got uncomfortable with the dealer. Had he agreed on the day I would have the car on the drive now. The passage of time made me have second thoughts. The dealer was not very gracious about the deal, suggested he was doing it under an element of duress. So I said if we are both not sure let's not do it. Then he got insistant. I called him and said no and I was polite, thanked him for his time and his offer. Aplogised for taking his time and deciding not to go ahead. He told me I was a f##king time waster and a disgrace, and hung up on me. Edited to add. My wife said I should do a Google review so I had a look. They had a fair few negative ones, all of which they had answered saying it was not their business but a local car wash business that was being reviewed. Quite odd perhaps a lucky escape. I have derailed the thread a bit.

Muzzer79 said: But you are interested in what they paid for it, which is why you're looking up WBAC prices. They may have bought it months ago and be sitting on a huge loss, again not my concern. Market value today is what I'd be looking at, so yes wbac as a lower worst case number and as you say equivalent cars advertised elsewhere. Muzzer79 said: The value in the market is measured by what cars are selling for, not what they are being bought for. Surely is the same thing? You presumably mean selling to retail for a consumer rather than trade. Muzzer79 said: You cannot expect to buy a car retail and then get out of it for anywhere close to that if you need to sell quickly. Not disagreeing Muzzer79 said: You cannot expect to buy a car for anywhere near trade money to mitigate the risk of needing to sell quickly. Well you can if you buy trade or auction, but I guess we are talking about dealer purchase at RRP. As I said wbac is still a useful benchmark to gauge the current market (or last week's auction). No one is expecting it to be the same as dealer RRP though.

cliffords said: He told me I was a f##king time waster and a disgrace, and hung up on me. Surprisingly poor sales technique.

Johnson897210 said: cliffords said: He told me I was a f##king time waster and a disgrace, and hung up on me. Surprisingly poor sales technique. It was the only thing he said to me that was sincere on his part.

churchie2856 said: Thank you, all, for the responses - some interesting points made and duly noted. I'm going to call the dealer. How did you get on? I have a 991 that I bought last year and my Autotrader search is still active as I'm interested to see what similar cars come onto the market. As one dealer said to me, 911's are almost priced like a commodity and as a result they're very consistently priced. It also means that if you miss one, another will be along pretty quickly. £55k for a 991.2 Carrera S sounds right for a 'perfect' car - but the lack of OPC servicing and, I assume, no OPC warranty would put me off.

I think if you call a dealer and say you think the car is overpriced, and name-check WBAC then you won't get very far. But if you call them and politely say that it's a touch above your budget and ask if there is any likely movement on price in the near future, then you might have more luck in striking a deal in the £52k region. Ultimately, you it's a car with a less-than-ideal SH that might be hard for them to shift. You also don't know their cashflow situation, stock status, what's in their pipeline etc. Plenty of cars get punted between dealerships to make ends meet and you might be lucky and talk to the dealer just at the point where they're contemplating a different pricing strategy for it. If that's the case, you've put yourself first in the queue. If they respond poorly to a polite and sincere enquiry, then I think you probably know what sort of company they are and how they'll treat you in terms of aftersales. Either way, I think it's a bit pointless getting too attached to something on sale without viewing it with a mk.1 eyeball, as you might go to a lot of effort in negotiation only to find you're on the hook for a car that's not in the condition that the pics and videos infer.

Update from me, the OP. Called the dealer, but it was reserved by then. So left my details should buyer pull out. That said, I think I’d be happier with an OPC car with the warranty (those potential turbos problems). I’m looking for a C2 (not S), non sunroof with sport seats plus, and not white or black.

churchie2856 said: I think I d be happier with an OPC car with the warranty (those potential turbos problems). I bought mine privately and paid for a 111 check and finally the Porsche warranty before taking delivery. It's given me as much protection as buying from a Porsche dealer. It's not a route I would necessarily recommend, but just mention it as another route to purchase were you to find the perfect car. I've run the numbers a few times and there's a saving buying privately, even with £3k of a multiyear warranty added.

churchie2856 said: Update from me, the OP. Called the dealer, but it was reserved by then. So left my details should buyer pull out. That said, I think I d be happier with an OPC car with the warranty (those potential turbos problems). I m looking for a C2 (not S), non sunroof with sport seats plus, and not white or black. If you know the car you're after you could call some of the well-known specialists to 1) give them your details 2) some have acqusition services From experience, some of the indy-sold cars are reserved before they even hit their websites. Or the salesman you are talking to is working with buyers on other cars looking for p/x. Do this & regularly check AT, PH listing & OPC. Good luck With a particular car/spec you will want to be ready to move as soon as the 'right' car comes up

churchie2856 said: Update from me, the OP. Called the dealer, but it was reserved by then. So left my details should buyer pull out. That said, I think I d be happier with an OPC car with the warranty (those potential turbos problems). I m looking for a C2 (not S), non sunroof with sport seats plus, and not white or black. At least you've learned that your own valuation was too low without offending anyone.

braddo said: churchie2856 said: Update from me, the OP. Called the dealer, but it was reserved by then. So left my details should buyer pull out. That said, I think I d be happier with an OPC car with the warranty (those potential turbos problems). I m looking for a C2 (not S), non sunroof with sport seats plus, and not white or black. At least you've learned that your own valuation was too low without offending anyone. lol, ups the budget and off to the local OPC for the same car.

2 months ago i saw the "Perfect car" at a dealer approx 2 hours away, had 2 telephone conversations as it was i thought a £16k car at £14k, then down to £13k over the phone they agreed £12500 perfect did my research, NO MOt so a 3rd call and the dealer explained the car needs tyres and has a crack in the windscreen but they will still get an MOT!! i declined and saved myself a 4-5 hour return drive to view the car. I would have been more than upset if i had driven there to see some cheap remoulds and a crack in the screen BUT it is always best to have a chat with the dealers and to view a car in person before buying

Dimebars said: Why are folk comparing WBAC and the like (Apples) with dealer and cars for sale prices (Pears) They aren't comparable in the slightest WBAC do not want Porsche's, very few dealers would buy on at auction, they want Juke's, Astra's etc

Update from me, the OP. Called the dealer, but it was reserved by then. So left my details should buyer pull out. That said, I think I’d be happier with an OPC car with the warranty (those potential turbos problems). I’m looking for a C2 (not S), non sunroof with sport seats plus, and not white or black.

Hardly any dealers really want Porsches, and those that do also understand how quickly you can spend more than any profit on getting it ready to retail, hence why the margins are pretty high. I think first time Porsche buyers, or those who have never bought one that is not new, or nearly new, simply don't understand how much money they can be to keep them factory fresh.

churchie2856 said: I m looking for a C2 (not S), non sunroof with sport seats plus, and not white or black. Why don't you want an S? They are often priced the same as a non S and tend to come with better spec. The PASM alone makes them much nicer on our crappy roads. I wouldn't care if I had an S or not, but seen a few people say they don't want and S recently.

Update from me, the OP. Called the dealer, but it was reserved by then. So left my details should buyer pull out. That said, I think I’d be happier with an OPC car with the warranty (those potential turbos problems). I’m looking for a C2 (not S), non sunroof with sport seats plus, and not white or black.

braddo said: At least you've learned that your own valuation was too low without offending anyone. You don't know what it sold for. It sold before the OP could make his offer.

Ed.Neumann said: churchie2856 said: I m looking for a C2 (not S), non sunroof with sport seats plus, and not white or black. Why don't you want an S? They are often priced the same as a non S and tend to come with better spec. The PASM alone makes them much nicer on our crappy roads. I wouldn't care if I had an S or not, but seen a few people say they don't want and S recently. I'm after a 991.2, and I believe all versions of the .2 (non-S and S) had PASM as standard (a first for 911 of any generation).

If you want to gauge auction prices this is a good starting point, might even see the car in question https://www.glenmarch.com/cars/results?make=290&am...

Haggling/negotiating is not about being polite, although certainly this does not mean one should not be. It's just not about "I want to buy this car but it would be nice if you could reduce the price by..." means I will take it anyway so you don't have to go down any other than a token amount already built in to the asking. You have to know your price and be very clear about (and be willing, and follow through with) walking away if that price is not offered to you. The seller will then have to decide whether it works for them to sell, the pressure is on them if to make a decision. If you are going to buy anyway then you either are willing to pay for something in some way special to you about the car in which case that is the real value of the car, or you are lazy / sloppy and getting done over is just par for the course.

churchie2856 said: That said, I think I d be happier with an OPC car with the warranty (those potential turbos problems). Be prepared that an OPC will almost certainly not move on price now, and especially for a 911 More likely to get other concessions (detailing, discounted servicing) than them move at all on price

It depends on whether you enjoy haggling or not. In my experience there are people who always haggle and find the process satisfying and those who never haggle. I do not. If there is something I wish to buy and I think it’s overpriced I make an offer. If it is not met I walk. With Porsche GT cars I pay list but not a penny more. If I can’t get the car for list then so be it.

I posted on here or another thread before. I learnt years and years ago . Let me wife buy and leave the selling to me . She is polite and cordial, tells the seller what she is prepared to pay . Never ever budges one penny .8 times of 10 is successful. She is absolutely prepared to walk away and I have seen a car salesman in a Skoda garage, chase after he into the car park and agree her deal. She will not have unrealistic expectations,she is just clear in her offer and it's absolutely for the seller to accept or decline. The sellers counter offer is the bit that makes me utterly cringe , when she asks them to repeat what she said her offer was at the start . Ex school teacher.

cliffords said: The sellers counter offer is the bit that makes me utterly cringe , when she asks them to repeat what she said her offer was at the start . Ex school teacher. Why cringe, he can make a counter offer no matter what your wife says at the start esp if he thinks her offer is too low in his eyes.

Youforreal. said: cliffords said: The sellers counter offer is the bit that makes me utterly cringe , when she asks them to repeat what she said her offer was at the start . Ex school teacher. Why cringe, he can make a counter offer no matter what your wife says at the start esp if he thinks her offer is too low in his eyes. I cringe because I find it uncomfortable. My wife appears not to.

cliffords said: Youforreal. said: cliffords said: The sellers counter offer is the bit that makes me utterly cringe , when she asks them to repeat what she said her offer was at the start . Ex school teacher. Why cringe, he can make a counter offer no matter what your wife says at the start esp if he thinks her offer is too low in his eyes. I cringe because I find it uncomfortable. My wife appears not to. Just making a deal is all, nothing to be ashamed off.

Youforreal. said: cliffords said: Youforreal. said: cliffords said: The sellers counter offer is the bit that makes me utterly cringe , when she asks them to repeat what she said her offer was at the start . Ex school teacher. Why cringe, he can make a counter offer no matter what your wife says at the start esp if he thinks her offer is too low in his eyes. I cringe because I find it uncomfortable. My wife appears not to. Just making a deal is all, nothing to be ashamed off. I am not ashamed. I am very proud of her. I admire her resolve and desire to get the best for our family.

cliffords said: Youforreal. said: cliffords said: Youforreal. said: cliffords said: The sellers counter offer is the bit that makes me utterly cringe , when she asks them to repeat what she said her offer was at the start . Ex school teacher. Why cringe, he can make a counter offer no matter what your wife says at the start esp if he thinks her offer is too low in his eyes. I cringe because I find it uncomfortable. My wife appears not to. Just making a deal is all, nothing to be ashamed off. I am not ashamed. I am very proud of her. I admire her resolve and desire to get the best for our family. Ok then…uncomfortable.

Wow. What has the state of manhood in the uk come to when you can't pluck the courage to ask for a discount? Western Europe, and in particular car manufacturers, cannot sell their overpriced goods at the moment. Demand is low. Deals are most definitely there and 47 porsche centres country wide to haggle with. These are businesses selling units. It's not a personal relationship.

Chemical Ali said: Wow. What has the state of manhood in the uk come to when you can't pluck the courage to ask for a discount? Western Europe, and in particular car manufacturers, cannot sell their overpriced goods at the moment. Demand is low. Deals are most definitely there and 47 porsche centres country wide to haggle with. These are businesses selling units. It's not a personal relationship. Your sexist comment and assumption you know the gender of the OP are a poor reflection of you. Man or woman.

cliffords said: I am not ashamed. I am very proud of her. I admire her resolve and desire to get the best for our family. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. As mentioned previously I set a price when it comes to a car and that's that.If it doesn't work ,no sweat. OTOH I have no talent for Real Estate. My wife finds and buys houses and does the transaction including whatever negotiation is required. We each have our skills. My lack of interest in haggling is due to stubbornness, not fear. It is far from foolproof- I walked away from a 1955 Mercedes Gullwing 30 years ago. The seller wanted $220k and I offered $200; the deal failed as I refused to move. Not my smartest move.

cliffords said: Chemical Ali said: Wow. What has the state of manhood in the uk come to when you can't pluck the courage to ask for a discount? Western Europe, and in particular car manufacturers, cannot sell their overpriced goods at the moment. Demand is low. Deals are most definitely there and 47 porsche centres country wide to haggle with. These are businesses selling units. It's not a personal relationship. Your sexist comment and assumption you know the gender of the OP are a poor reflection of you. Man or woman. How the world has changed. And not for the better. Good luck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCJP6umb68U For a bit of humour :-)

cliffords said: Chemical Ali said: Wow. What has the state of manhood in the uk come to when you can't pluck the courage to ask for a discount? Western Europe, and in particular car manufacturers, cannot sell their overpriced goods at the moment. Demand is low. Deals are most definitely there and 47 porsche centres country wide to haggle with. These are businesses selling units. It's not a personal relationship. Your sexist comment and assumption you know the gender of the OP are a poor reflection of you. Man or woman. Hilarious, as someone who identifies as a horse I take great offence to that comment, shame on you.

Mark V GTD said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCJP6umb68U For a bit of humour :-) Very good - I would like to see that re-enacted with a Porsche ( or any manufacturer come to that ) dealer ! In reality negotiation should always be polite and the aim should be for both parties to be happy at the end. Being realistic and knowing your cut off point is vital obviously. The same rules apply for buying anything really but some can negotiate and others hate it. One tip - when you have stated your " best " offer don't be tempted to say another word or add anything verbally until the other party responds first. Discounts don't always have to be in cash.

cliffords said: Chemical Ali said: Wow. What has the state of manhood in the uk come to when you can't pluck the courage to ask for a discount? Western Europe, and in particular car manufacturers, cannot sell their overpriced goods at the moment. Demand is low. Deals are most definitely there and 47 porsche centres country wide to haggle with. These are businesses selling units. It's not a personal relationship. Your sexist comment and assumption you know the gender of the OP are a poor reflection of you. Man or woman. Eww, you're one of those. Gross.

SV_WDC said: churchie2856 said: That said, I think I d be happier with an OPC car with the warranty (those potential turbos problems). Be prepared that an OPC will almost certainly not move on price now, and especially for a 911 More likely to get other concessions (detailing, discounted servicing) than them move at all on price I'm not sure on this but I've had OPCs calling me recently trying to sell me cars and they sound desperate. I tried to get a 50th anniversary Turbo and was basically laughed out of a couple of OPC showrooms like I'd asked for a GT3RS without buying enough Taycans, but now I've had OPCs calling me and sending me WhatsApp videos trying to sell me the ones they have stuck on showroom floors, I actually responded to one to say no thanks, you should have sold me one when I asked. OPCs have cars stacked up to the rafters now and I reckon discounts are not far off if they aren't already offering them - quietly.