996 values on the rise?

Had a very interesting conversation at coffee this morning with a well-respected (and well-connected) Porsche collector. He is of the opinion that 996 values have bottomed out. Seems that high demand for the relatively 'cheap' 996 has caused prices to start rising - Adam Smith at work! This jives with my very detailed national search over the past three months. I got the car I wanted at a good price. But I noticed that by mid-December there were not as many great deals available on the 02/03 models I was looking at. From October through November there were many to choose from under $30k. But now those under that price are either high mileage cars, or those with obvious problems. As the winter deepened the pool of available cars should probably have widened... so this change really could be happening.

I'd love to see the values rise a bit, but my buddy just got a 1999 996 with aerokit for 14,800$ with like 80,000 miles on it. That wasn't encouraging.

Come on $20k !

I follow the used Porsche market closely, I haven't seen anything close to that in the last two years on eBay, autotrader, cars.com and so forth. In fact, I haven't come across a single car under $16k without some issue I would consider major, not even the least desirable color combos. I would say that there aren't many good examples available much under $18-19k anymore for the C2, and agree that 2002+ cars are harder to find under $30k. I wanted a car with an LSD (much bigger price delta for an MK2 car), and litronics, so settled on another 1999 C2.

Seriously??? In Canada????

Pricing: That sounds like great news! Finally!! 99C2

I got mine with full power everything and leather. Only thing wrong with it is the driver. I think dealers are where the best deals can be found when they are trying to clear stocks to make room and happy to sell low if they can get clear of reparing anything with problems in the near future. Done deal in my case since I wouldn't want a honda dealer fixing a porsche since they had already put too light of an oil in anyway. Only real regret I have is not knowing the boys at Porsche are attached to the term special tool. Can I get a Porsche watch that doesn't require a special tool to put on? Anyway great car and like with anything else in the moment of things the view is at times perplexing. Best thing to keep in mind is the actual thought of at least owning the car. I feel the best thing about buying new is knowing how the car is treated and knowing the history. My car was educated at UH for 10 years here in Hawaii. I think that rasies its value but eh.

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Probably some truth to that. These are fine cars and well taken care of examples will never drop to zero value and the price could rise. They won't ever make anyone rich but they'll regain some value. In fact with the economy flat and conspicious comsumption frowned upon used car values in general have experienced an uptick. Good cars that is. And well cared for Porsches certainly are good cars. I know. I own two. Sincerely, Macster.

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Hey Omar, who is the knockout in your avatar?

I woudl love nothing more than to see this happen. But sadly I dont see it being the case. But we can all hope.

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Just to be clear, my source has a detailed understanding of the market. If he says prices are bottoming out, his statement is based on facts and is not just opinion or average message-board guesswork.

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My WAG is Megan Fox. I'd try to ask her out but she requires a boyfriend to get a tat and I'm scared of needles. Otherwise... Sincerely, Macster.

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Bob would know I guess

Kind of hard defining whats the market is unless you stick to one or two depenable sources that don't sell lemons. So on a collectors view it would be a stable area to view. Of course ebay and non porsche dealer sellers you are asking for wide variables and variations in price. I'll go for the price is going up and not give anybody a deal. Sounds good to me.

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Detailed understanding or not, his statement is still an opinion. Unless he is privy to the actual transaction price for the hundreds of 996s sold each year, how would he have any idea? He may be making educated guesses, but they are guesses all the same.

Values aren't going to rise, other than maybe to erase some of the distress selling of the last year. The most you can hope for is that they stop falling. Stable values basically reduces the cost of ownership. You just can't ever fall into the trap of seeing a car as an investment, or even an asset. The value of the car lies in the pleasurable use you get out of it. My .02, anyhow.

For 1999, 2002, 2004 996 C2 Coupes at Auction and suggested retail

Let's say prices have bottomed out. How much could they really rise? I am NOT a Porsche expert at all but it seems like a 5-10 year old car is not an antique or collectors item likely to appreciate much? It thus would be my completely UN-educated opinion that prices may stabalize and go down slower but I can't seem them really rising much.

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Rising much is open for discussion to be sure. An improving economy can only help (if it ever improves much... way too much unemployment which is very very sad). Nonetheless, these cars can experience an increase in value. There are alot of non-owners who have observed these cars and at some point will want one. Not a week goes by I don't get a favorable comment on my Porsches and some of these people will eventually own one. Some owners of older Porsches when their even older model car gets well, too old, will want to stay in the Porsche fold. A nice example of a 996 might even make some forget their 993 or 964, a little. Some people that currently own one might want another cause they are comfortable with the model, know it, know its positives and can deal with the negatives. I know this one reason why I bought an 03 Turbo and not something else. My 2002 Boxster has been a great car and I liked the 2002 to 2003 MY. Sure, the Turbo's a different model, different engine, but the interior's very much like my Boxster's and I know and like the interior layout and this is very important to me. I spend a lot of time in a car and a good comfortable and reliable cabin control interface very important. I've experienced some pretty crappy interiors (rental cars). There is asthetics too. Not everyone likes the newer models. I'm not too happy with the led daytime running lights of the 997 model. There is the new transmission, engine and even more electronics, which for some is a turn off. Plus depreciation of the newer cars still high. Then there is price. These are fine cars and at some point price will attract buyers and falling supply (attrition) will cause demand to help drive prices up again. We'll never get rich selling just one of these cars, and we'll never recoup our cost of ownership, but there will always be a market for good condition used Porsches, even 996s. Sincerely, Macster.

Hey, the 996 value plunge got me out of my 968! I have had 3 or 4 people contact me through friends to ask for advice on searching for a 996. Some are current Porsche owners looking to move up and others are potential first-time owners. It was this phenomenon on a much larger scale that prompts the story in my original post. It is simple supply and demand: As more and more people perceive that 996s are a great value, demand will increase. Simultaneously, there is a fairly small supply of 996s available (compared to Honda Accords for example). Simple high school economics at work. Having said that, Orient Express's data is cautionary on this hypothesis. But it is projecting a continued drop in value based on trends from the past without any corresponding data related to demand in the future, so those projections can change. My best guess: The plunge in value for good to excellent condition cars with lower mileage is most likely bottoming out. Will they stop depreciating entirely? Of course not. Very seldom do you see an increase in the value of a mass-produced car (The 993 price increase of the past few years was an anomoly - that usually does not happen). But the plunge is most likely over. Sadly, Bruce Anderson's 996 value charts will come out in Excellence in a month or so... and reflect the past year's trend, rather than a possible trend over the past month or two. Ultimately, as always, this question comes down to what is a buyer willing to pay and what is a seller willing to accept. And I suspect that what a seller is willing to accept is changing - because that seller is probably getting more interest in the car.

Don't assume that prices move in some kind of continuous curve. When there were plenty of eager sellers and zero buyers, the prices just reset, very quickly. When there are more people who have money to spend and want the cars, and fewer distressed sellers (or none left), what do you think happens then? 996 prices have experienced a sharp and unusual discontinuity, caused by the temporarily weird economy. What has happened in the past 18 months between freaked out sellers and opportunistic buyers means nothing going forward--either there's a supply of cheap cars or there isn't. Best bet for buyers: try to convince a seller of a decent 996 the market is so bad they should take your lowball offer. Move fast. Good luck.

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1st post for me on the boards I am moving to the states from europe and I already now know that I will be owning a 911 next summer. I have started to do some research on the topic in order to determine which car I want. 996 vs 997, C4s vs. C2S vs. TT? I will have a budget of $60k max. and I will be paying cash for the car... this gives me some leverage as a buyer even though there are a limited number of cars for sale. I think that we currently have a market where some guys have to part with their toys in hard economic times. This is what is reflected on the market value of a car like the 996.

In my opinion, with the current economy prices may vary either up or down. However, in a few years, European cars are in for a real shock with the "green" market legislating Hybrids, Electric cars and gas mileage and emission restrictions. We may see real appreciation for those who long to drive a gas powered, fast exotic sportscar. I am not saying there is anything wrong with saving energy, trees, and precious resources, only that there will be a time when these type of cars will not be available and we will all be glad that we own one. Remember Porsche is probably one of the all time retained production cars in the world. Who sees a Porsche go the the junkyard for scrap. Even the, totaled Porsches are used as "donor" cars so that current running Porsches can survive with their parts.

I must say that unless there are severe economic issues, as any enthusiast type car depreciates, the decline in depreciation slows down considerably. I have seen this with numerous car markets. As stated before, as the price drops, the market opens up to more people. As this market opens up, the supply doesn't match the demand. This almost never causes an increase in prices but does significantly slow the decline. I significantly doubt these cars will ever reach the $5000 level (for a running car) as some have said. There is just too much performance to drop to that level. I can name you several other car markets that have bottomed out for cars that have significantly less performance or history as a 911 and prices have very slowly declined even as cars increase in age and mileage. I don't think I would be presumptuous to say that many people on this forum would have never been able to afford a new 996, myself included. But you love these cars and their prices dropped to a level that you could afford.

I think 2 things are going on: - one is a realization that a 996 at $20k is an amazing deal (I bought mine at $30k which was a great deal at the time) - two is all the economic factors: the economy has flattened out, banks are generally lending better, there's a lot of pent-up demand for "stuff", and guys like us with multiple cars have generally decided against selling their 2nd/3rd/4th car..... just my .02 pfennig.

I will say there are not a lot of nice 996's for sale right now in Nor Cal.

blah blah blah I'm still waiting for Omar to 'fess up about his avatar and hopefully post more pics.

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roflmao. google megan fox + aprilia or megan fox + transformers 2.

Curious how much difference the prices are around the country? For example, there are a ton of 911's in So Cal, less in No Cal, and even less in Portland where I was looking. I understand supply/demand can balance that out. However, also the economy is stronger in some places than others. Would be curious how much the price difference may be from one area to another?

Searching the country from October through early December for an 02/03 996 I found the preponderance of cars in the following regions/states: Florida (got to be careful with these) The South (primarily in GA, NC/VA) The Northeast (NJ and MA mostly) Texas California (mostly LA area, but also Bay Area and Sacramento) Very few cars in the midwest, other than a few in the Illinois/Indiana area (mostly Chicago regions). www.searchtempest.com allowed me to search Craigslist globally - the key to any search. I found my car (in MA) initially through autotrader. But then I found it advertised locally on Craigslist for $1k cheaper!

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I know what you mean about Florida cars in one sense, but Florida cars are sought after cars (provided they haven't been well, soaked in water I guess is the concern you would have about a Florida car) cause the climate there is of course very mild and Florida cars rack up fewer miles than other areas of the country. CA cars sought after too cause of mild climate though cars here can rack up bigger miles than Florida cars. Sincerely, Macster.

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Look again. http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/1539599213.html I spent 15 seconds literally and found that. Drive 1 hour... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/1538009559.html http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/1534548378.html Took me 30 seconds to find those in the Bay Area. Bottom line,there is nothing special about any M96 platform Porsche and they will all hit a rock bottom. Look at the old 914s,944s,930s,964s....they all hit a bottom line but still have some value as long as the car is mainly original and pretty well taken care of.

Actually the problem is a recurring issue of odometer rollbacks and unscrupulous quasi-dealers in the sunshine state. Several times in my search for a 996 I inquired about cars in FL and got evasive answers or no answers to fairly straightforward questions. I found one car listed in three different cities on Craigslist with a different name and number for each ad. Several times I inquired about cars only to get a reply email trying to sell me a different vehicle, followed up by spam. Having said that, a friend just bought a beautiful 997 out of the Miami area with no hassles. However, he did fly in to see the car before buying and the purchase was from an individual throught the PCA Mart. I just think it is an extreme buyer beware region...

It's interesting that others have had bad experiences with Florida dealers also. I was emailing a dealer about an '01 C2 that was listed as one owner. I asked him why the autocheck showed that the car was titled four times and in different states and also shown in dealer inventory at 11,000 miles, he told me that it was due to the owner moving around. I also asked him about whether the car had any work on the RMS and IMS and he asked me what "RMS" and "IMS" meant. I apparently insulted him in my response by suggesting that he might not be familiar with 996s and he responded by calling me an "idiot that is a mid-life crisis that think he knows something" and he knows these cars better than I ever will. I have been tempted to forward his insulting email to the dealership manager but it's probably not worth my time.

Look again. http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/1539599213.html I spent 15 seconds literally and found that. Thanks. Yes Blink, I found that one plus the one in Jackson that is on Ebay. Plus, I didn't say they are NONE. I just said not a lot. Maybe I am being too picky but take this one on Craigslist that you point out. It's on Autotrader also and I carfaxed it. That car has had 5 owners with the current owner only being 3 months. It gives me pause. Not being in a rush I am looking for a 1 or 2 owner car with detailed records.

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I don't see why people worry so much about mutiple owners....the higher end car,the more owners they tend to have. Look at Ferraris for example. Just look at the car's shape and owner's character and you'll be fine. My daily driver Neon had 1 owner prior to me and it's the biggest piece of **** I've ever driven.

My daily driver Neon had 1 owner prior to me and it's the biggest piece of **** I've ever driven. Maybe because it's a Neon!? Not sure the number of drivers is relevant with it. As for worrying about the number of owners... I have found that single owner cars tend to have impecible records for what has been done with the car, they tend to keep their cars up, likely wealthier (since they could afford the car new) so take care of it, etc.... I have been looking on/off for a 911 for years so I am not in a rush here. I just want to increase my odds of finding a nice one.

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Keep in mind that it is sometimes hard to see exactly how many owners a car has had on carfax. For example, my car shows 3 owners, when it has actually been only 2. Carfax is counting when the original owner paid the car off as being owner #2.

Carfax owner info is really confusing as it also can list a dealer who bought and then sold the car as a seperate owner. With this, a two owner car can show as three or even four owners.

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Head to SoCal, LA and SD are the best spots to get bargains on Porsches.

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Of only little help to west coasters, but the northeast is where potential bargains are this time of year...

I once called a florida dealer about an incredible deal on a 997 - an '06 for less than 30 grand. Of course, 5 minutes into the conversation, the actual car for sale turned out to be a boxster, despite the pics online that clearly showed a 997.

There is an old saying "Been Down So Long Looks Like Up To Me!"