GTS 4.0 residuals - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Looking on autotrader a new CGTS4.0 can be £90k but a 3year old can be £52k for just over 20k miles. I wonder what are your thoughts on such high depreciations for such an iconic run out car.

Don't worry about. Buy what you can afford and enjoy it. There are some odd spec cars at the lower end of the market, it makes more of a difference in the GTS than base models. Also don't forget these weren't 90k cars when bought. A 3 year old GTS was £64k new, a smattering of options gets you to 70k.

I have a 73 plate which I bought new from Porsche Wolverhampton . It was their ex Demonstrator , fully specced and I was in a rush to get into something at the time so it suited me to buy it . 1200 miles when I bought it for £78,000 , WBAC have offered £54,400 at 22500 miles just the other day . Dealers have been broadly around the same figure , Motorway were £57,000 . Its a wonderful car that I am in no hurry to sell and finding a proper spec GT4 with the right provenance is at the moment proving difficult . Its always struck me as pretty sad this Porsche Owner fascination with residuals so much so that you almost feel you need to apologise to the prospective buyer for covering 22500 miles in a year and enjoying yourself . There is of course a beneficial side for the second hand buyer in that most of the stock has covered very little mileage . In answer to your post I think it surprising that anyone would believe they had bought a potential investment in a 4.0 GTS , get out and enjoy it and pick your time to move it on . For me personally , its a very reluctant sale and after flirting with McLarens and yet another Aston Im sticking with the brand and the 4.0 engine . 22500 miles in a year whilst driving a GT4 seems a wonderful prospect and I will still be only 62

WBAC it there and then…I would ask the question why such a huge difference in price, then wait for all their nonsense to start.

My Cayman GTS 4.0 lost £7k of retail value in the span of 9 months – I bought it at 1yr old with 500 miles on the clock and sold 9 months later with 2,500 miles. It was a fully loaded manual, base price was £68k without options, £79k with options on the invoice. Obviously, I lost a lot more due to dealer margin, so if you want to minimise depreciation, buy privately and don't sell in the first 3yrs+. Given the back-pedalling on EVs and reality smacking people in the face, I'd expect Porsche to produce another generation of ICE Cayman/Boxster, so I don't think the GTS 4.0 will hold their values as previously assumed. Very good car, nonetheless.

With the two Astons I put through there before , I have had nothing but good experiences with WBAC Klippie and it was only on account of the Aston Dealers advice that I used them . The trouble is that this time around I need the use of a car and using them only makes sense if I have a GT4 lined up to step into which I don't and of course if the WBAC price exceeds the PX value offered .

I was meaning just to see how much mark-up the dealer was getting, if might be useful doing the deal.

I sold the last Vantage for £88,000 and two weeks later it was on the Aston Works forecourt at £86,000 , WBAC clearly work on volume and Aston Dealers on exploitation . I have been pondering another Vantage at Winslow which is up for £107,000 , in black you can take a look if you like .They have offered to knock £2300 off the price if I take it before the end of the month . I challenged them on their excessive margins which are often as high as £20,000 . The Salesman told me that to sell used Astons under their Timeless Program costs them a small fortune , I take the view that all those Gin Palace Dealerships as well as the advent of Leasing has impacted poorly on the Buyer and the Seller .

I think the short answer is that the market is returning to relative normality where new cars depreciate unless they are spectacularly difficult to obtain. "Normal" Porsches have always depreciated although perhaps at a slower rate than other brands and it's only been the exceptional circumstances of the last few years with Covid etc. that turned that model on it's head. Having said that if you're being quoted anything more than 50% of the original purchase price after 3 years I think you should take that as a positive. I suspect some private Taycan owners would bite your hand off to be in a similar position when their cars turn 3 years old. As others have said, the value of your car is the enjoyment you get out of it. My Boxster 25 Years turned 3 in October and I've done 20k miles in it all over Europe and it's been brilliant. It terms of depreciation it's cost me roughly £1.00 per mile and to me it's been worth every penny.

I bought my GTS 4.0 in March of '22. Not fully loaded but I paid £73k and that's with £8k of options. List price then was a smidge over £65k. Just done a Motorway quote and they value it at £52184. It's currently sat on 19500 miles and every one of them have been lovely. I have absolutely no intention of selling even when my wife asked if we should get a 911. Why? because a base 911 with no options is £30k more and I'd rather spend that on running the GTS along with some nice road trips. Some may say you've not got a real Porsche as it's not a 911 (and there are some out there that do look down their noses at you, and you know who you are) but I don't care. I just love it. My friend has a 2020 fully loaded Base Boxster, and I mean loaded, that's got 12k on the clock. He got a great deal from his OPC at the time and didn't pay list price but his car is now showing on Motorway at £35k. I've asked him for first refusal should he want to sell it (one for the wife). It doesn't matter what model of Porsche you drive, you're still part of the family. I passed a 944 on the motorway a couple of days ago, flashed my lights and gave him the thumbs up. Only a young chap but the boot was full and he looked like he was having a blast. Remember, something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.

Klippie said: I was meaning just to see how much mark-up the dealer was getting, if might be useful doing the deal. An OPC would probably sell a used car with a mark up of roughly £5-7K depending on model and age. Remember, OPCs have to put a warranty and recovery on every model so that's ~ £2k then they have to prep the car and repair or replace any parts that don't meet the Porsche approved car requirements for example tyres, chipped windscreen, scuffed alloys etc. Factor all that in plus the labour costs and overheads you can see why they are more expensive than Indies or private sellers. One thing to tae note of is that if the car already has a warranty and you sell it to an individual then the warranty moves over. If you sell it to an Indie the Porsche warranty is lost.

OPC mark up from p/x value would be at least 10k.

Most cars have depreciated around 50% of their original cost after the first three years. Porsche aren't exempt from that rule. Add to that - extras generally depreciate more quickly than the car to which they were added. And Porsche offer lots of expensive extras. Cars that are "barely used" may be an exception from these basic rules but they will still be carrying heavy depreciation per mile driven.

plynchy said: OPC mark up from p/x value would be at least 10k. That matches the OPC margin on my GTS 4.0.

Panamax said: Most cars have depreciated around 50% of their original cost after the first three years. Porsche aren't exempt from that rule. <snip> All my Porsche's so far have been entirely exempt from that rule. In fact my share of SOR from the OPC on my 981 GT4 was 70% of original cost at 8 1/2 years and 20,000 ish miles when it sold last September. Worst I have suffered so far was 20% at a year old, on a base Cayman 2.0, but I was foolish in selling it to a dealer when I didn't really need the money. Should have put it in for SOR. Prices are depressed at this time of year. Going back to @reddiesel, yes, residuals will be artificially low on your GTS 4.0, but then again, you're probably getting a deal done before 718 GT4 prices start creeping up as the weather warms up. Many of my colleagues like Land Rover products. The depreciation they suffer over the first 5 years, and they just keep going down and down, would be eye-watering to me. I feel like I get off pretty lightly for depreciation. (And insurance, servicing costs, reliability, durability, everything really!) Edited by LiamH66 on Sunday 26th January 21:18

reddiesel said: I have a 73 plate which I bought new from Porsche Wolverhampton . It was their ex Demonstrator , fully specced and I was in a rush to get into something at the time so it suited me to buy it . 1200 miles when I bought it for £78,000 , WBAC have offered £54,400 at 22500 miles just the other day . Dealers have been broadly around the same figure , Motorway were £57,000 . Its a wonderful car that I am in no hurry to sell and finding a proper spec GT4 with the right provenance is at the moment proving difficult . Its always struck me as pretty sad this Porsche Owner fascination with residuals so much so that you almost feel you need to apologise to the prospective buyer for covering 22500 miles in a year and enjoying yourself . There is of course a beneficial side for the second hand buyer in that most of the stock has covered very little mileage . In answer to your post I think it surprising that anyone would believe they had bought a potential investment in a 4.0 GTS , get out and enjoy it and pick your time to move it on . For me personally , its a very reluctant sale and after flirting with McLarens and yet another Aston Im sticking with the brand and the 4.0 engine . 22500 miles in a year whilst driving a GT4 seems a wonderful prospect and I will still be only 62 £34K (your drop) is pretty much what I paid for my GR Yaris (as a toy) in 2021, had loads of fun in that. The car market is f,ucked.

On Land Rover depreciation, a chap at work had a 90 75th edition. Bought it new with a £10k discount so paid roughly £75k for it. Traded it in for a Macan GTS when it was a year old and the best offer he had from anywhere was £53! Needless to say he wasn't a happy bunny.

Iconic run out car? Not sure if this is a serious post.

PaulJC84 said: Iconic run out car? Not sure if this is a serious post. It's arguably peak non-GT Boxster / Cayman - which still won Best Sportscar last year according to What Car despite being at the end of its production run - so "iconic run out car" doesn't seem a particularly outrageous comment to me

PaulJC84 said: Iconic run out car? Not sure if this is a serious post. Last production "normal" 6 cylinder Boxster, is perhaps a better way to put it. Harry Metcafe on his review when they came out in 2020 did state "not to worry about depreciation" given the cars strengths and the thinking at the time that by 23-24 it would have been replaced with an BEV platform, pumping up the Mad Max-esq "last of the sixes" values on all GTS and up models, that, and for some reason in 2020 quite a lot of people lost their minds and thought depreciation and Porsche were never meeting again.

I'd say just be glad you didn't buy a Taycan and enjoy the ride. I think the 4.0 GTS residuals (based on original purchase prices) are amazing...

Panamax said: Most cars have depreciated around 50% of their original cost after the first three years. Porsche aren't exempt from that rule. Add to that - extras generally depreciate more quickly than the car to which they were added. And Porsche offer lots of expensive extras. Rather depends on the car.... Porsche or otherwise. Also depends on the extra and its cost ££. Try selling a GT3 or 4RS without the £2k to £2.5k lift option. Just one example which adds value way over and above the option cost. The other one could be climate as opposed to standard aircon. Costs £500 but adds double that to value on say a £100k Porsche and cars without it struggle to sell. 'No brainer' options as opposed to 'frippery' options are always worth speccing because they add value.

What was the list price of a Boxter/Cayman GTS in 2020 when they were launched?

Ed Banger said: What was the list price of a Boxter/Cayman GTS in 2020 when they were launched? July-21 was £65k, bargain... https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/porsche/cayman/35596...

They don’t seem to have done to badly in the intervening years, have they?

av185 said: Try selling a GT3 or 4RS without the £2k to £2.5k lift option. Just one example which adds value way over and above the option cost. You're dead right on that. I just can't get my head around why someone buying from new would stick with manual AC and not go for climate for the sake of £500. I put it down to a lack of understanding rather than trying to save a monkey.

Totally agree and on a car that's £50k+ dual zone climate should be standard.

The GTS 4.0 is a wonderful sports car for the roads, better I feel than bloated, later 911s that force you to back off down your favourite B roads. And I love 911s. I think these cars will hold their value well, maybe even increase a bit, in the medium to long term. For what it’s worth, I was recently offered £61.5K for my 22 car against a GT car by an OPC (they know my car and how well it’s been looked after). It’s interesting to see how well 981s are doing - I sold mine in 21 after four years and 30000 wonderful miles for 75% of what I paid for it from a dealer.

scrounger73 said: Totally agree and on a car that's £50k+ dual zone climate should be standard. ^^^^^^^ This entirely, I do think it's absolutely ridiculous that you have to spec dual zone climate on cars that are of this value, it should be a standard feature.

I think its always interesting to see where the manufactures think values will go by looking at GFV on PCP deals. Here is a selection of manual Cayman GTS from Approved Used and the delta to GFV is not that great considering the difference in purchase price. A £9K spread between the most expensive and the cheapest GFV but a £24K spread on purchase price. Reg Miles Price GFV 05/23 - 3.5K £78k - £38k (36/5000) 10/20 - 4K - £57k - £35k (36/5000) 06/21 - 26K - £56k - £32k (36/5000) 09/24 - 2K - £80k - £41k (36/5000) I think these predicted values look pessimistic but for sure its not a great time if you need to sell. I sold my GR last year as I couldn't justify keeping the GTS and the GR and my thought process was that if I did want to get into a GR again in a couple of years there will be loads to choose from whereas the number of manual GTS cars available in a given spec isn't increasing with only around 600 produced.

GFVs are not predicted values though, are they?

Jazzer said: GFVs are not predicted values though, are they? Guaranteed. A good indication of where the finance company think it's going that's for sure as that's what they're lending on. I remember pre 2008 crisis Merc used to set the values quite high to reduce the payments. They sure took a beating post GFC in terms of losses but at the time who would have the foresight to build that into their models. Probably one of the rare occasions where the fall in value actually offset the cost of the scheme.

Jazzer said: GFVs are not predicted values though, are they? Correct and invariably miles out. When I bought my new 991.2 GT3 in 2018 the GFV after 5 years was sub £80k lol. Sold it privately for £143500 in May 2023 with 8.1k miles 5 years 2months old.

av185 said: Jazzer said: GFVs are not predicted values though, are they? Correct and invariably miles out. When I bought my new 991.2 GT3 in 2018 the GFV after 5 years was sub £80k lol. Sold it privately for £143500 in May 2023 with 8.1k miles 5 years 2months old. GT3 lol. Hardly your standard GTS 4.

GT3 or otherwise it is a perfect example of how GFVs are invariably b ks.

av185 said: GT3 or otherwise it is a perfect example of how GFVs are invariably b ks. Well I wouldn't bank on it being much higher unless it's a hard to source model like a GT3. But clearly you take the risk then and not the finance co. As mentioned the only time I've seen the GFVs much higher than market was the above GFC case with Merc. I think in practice most try to build in just a little equity.

Jazzer said: GFVs are not predicted values though, are they? Not predicted but a guaranteed worst case if you will.

It is in the finance company’s interest to set a low GFV as it means a greater proportion of the cost of the car is paid via deposit/monthlies. Then, if the car is handed back at the end of the contract then they will get more than the GFV when they sell it and will make additional profit. Simples ! It is also in their interest to ensure that there is still equity in the car for the customer when the contract comes to an end - they can then encourage the customer to spend this equity on a new car - and so the circle repeats itself !

av185 said: Correct and invariably miles out. When I bought my new 991.2 GT3 in 2018 the GFV after 5 years was sub £80k lol. Sold it privately for £143500 in May 2023 with 8.1k miles 5 years 2months old. This is an absolutely ridiculous example and nothing more than a flex. The GFV is there to protect you from a dramatic drop in values and for run of the mill cars it is an excellent barometer to what the manufacturer thinks the car will be worth. They very rarely get it wrong with the only recent exception being EVs so its fairly safe to assume your car will be worth a least the GFV and anything else is a bonus.

moonigan said: This is an absolutely ridiculous example and nothing more than a flex. The GFV is there to protect you from a dramatic drop in values and for run of the mill cars it is an excellent barometer to what the manufacturer thinks the car will be worth. They very rarely get it wrong with the only recent exception being EVs so its fairly safe to assume your car will be worth a least the GFV and anything else is a bonus. Completely agree , an absolutely ridiculous example .

Don't even look at the GFV on a GT4RS then.

Be interesting knowing what the GFV was on the GR Yaris too......

I get what you are saying guys.....am just playing devils advocate. Worth stating again though GFVs are NOT and never have been a reliable indicator of residual values across many different types of cars and on many different price levels too. Not only are there many cars that tend to always contradict the figures (3 examples already given) but recent events over the past few years specifically the major structural event of the pandemic and its colossal effect on car residuals, supply chain issues, Ukraine war, dieselgate, not to mention 2008 financial crisis etc etc have all massively skewed residual figures ££.

I just bought this one today. Ended up doing a bit of a deal on it, picking it up Thursday morning. I very nearly bought the 911 turbo they had.

Whistle said: I just bought this one today. Ended up doing a bit of a deal on it, picking it up Thursday morning. I very nearly bought the 911 turbo they had. What one?

Ha ha, forgot to add the link https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/dealer/details...

Don't think I've ever seen Shark seat belts with Gentian.

Whistle said: I just bought this one today. Ended up doing a bit of a deal on it, picking it up Thursday morning. I very nearly bought the 911 turbo they had. Congratulations you will enjoy that . The 4.0 GTS is one of those cars you wonder what you will replace it with . It just ticks so many boxes at a ridiculously cheap price point .

av185 said: Be interesting knowing what the GFV was on the GR Yaris too...... £17k @ 3 years. Sold @ 3.5 years old for £26.7k but this like GT3s are really immune to the need of GFV because you are unlikely to hand either car back at the end of the agreement. Recent cars that have been worth almost the same as GFV A6 Saloon @ 4 years RS4 @ 3 years Macan @ 2 years Edited by moonigan on Tuesday 28th January 21:18

Whistle said: Ha ha, forgot to add the link https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/dealer/details... Great spec. on a cracking car, and for a really good price. Hope you enjoy as much as I have my one. Liam

Whistle said: I just bought this one today. Ended up doing a bit of a deal on it, picking it up Thursday morning. I very nearly bought the 911 turbo they had. What swung the deal to the GTS over the turbo?

The turbo was £13k more and more and 8 years older than the cayman. Also it just looked a bit much to be parked on my drive outside the house, I am also going to use it every day so it just didn’t seem right to buy the turbo.

av185 said: Worth stating again though GFVs are NOT and never have been a reliable indicator of residual values Exactly. GFVs are set by the finance companies and they cover an option that they can only lose on, since if the car is worth less than GFV it gets handed back to them and they lose money, but if it ends up more then they don't get the upside as the client keeps the car or sells it for a profit. So GFVs are set at a level that they feel confident will not lose them money i.e. the expected future price less a significant haircut This is different for leases, since the lease provider gets the upside as well as the downside, so they price their implicit future values more aggressively, which is why a lease should always be cheaper than a PCP.

Guyr said: So GFVs are set at a level that they feel confident will not lose them money . Exactly, if the finance companies aren't willing to bet on a higher future value you have a pretty good indication worst case for the residual. Now there may be a lot of upside potential with certain in demand cars like a GT3 (that might be tricky to get an allocation for as we know too well), but that's a bet you take, not the finance company. If higher residuals were guaranteed they'd increase the GFVs to offer a cheaper 'rental' & lower payments. This issue is the rates have now massively increased.

Many of the supposed exceptions to the rules look like very lightly used cars. You see the same thing with Ferrari - some owners reluctant to put miles on their car because of the impact on depreciation. LiamH66 said: All my Porsche's so far have been entirely exempt from that rule. In fact my share of SOR from the OPC on my 981 GT4 was 70% of original cost at 8 1/2 years and 20,000 ish miles. ^^ Very low mileage - only about a quarter of "average mileage for age".

Don't conflate 'average mileage of an average used car say a Focus' of around 10k miles a year is the same as 'average mileage of a Porsche GT Ferrari or something similar.' This could be and invariably is around 2k to 3k a year partly because folks running them have several cars and they broadly are often unused through the winter being seasonal cars.....like mine. If in doubt see Autotrader which will explain if the mileage on any used car advertised is above or below the average FOR THAT PARTICULAR CAR and not the general market/average used car. .

moonigan said: av185 said: Be interesting knowing what the GFV was on the GR Yaris too...... £17k @ 3 years. Sold @ 3.5 years old for £26.7k but this like GT3s are really immune to the need of GFV because you are unlikely to hand either car back at the end of the agreement. Recent cars that have been worth almost the same as GFV A6 Saloon @ 4 years RS4 @ 3 years Macan @ 2 years Edited by moonigan on Tuesday 28th January 21:18 If you look across all finance of all cars - GFV will be close to the actual value. There will be the odd exception .

moonigan said: av185 said: Be interesting knowing what the GFV was on the GR Yaris too...... £17k @ 3 years. Sold @ 3.5 years old for £26.7k but this like GT3s are really immune to the need of GFV because you are unlikely to hand either car back at the end of the agreement. Recent cars that have been worth almost the same as GFV A6 Saloon @ 4 years RS4 @ 3 years Macan @ 2 years Edited by moonigan on Tuesday 28th January 21:18 If you look across all finance of all cars - GFV will be close to the actual value. There will be the odd exception .

Panamax said: Many of the supposed exceptions to the rules look like very lightly used cars. You see the same thing with Ferrari - some owners reluctant to put miles on their car because of the impact on depreciation. LiamH66 said: All my Porsche's so far have been entirely exempt from that rule. In fact my share of SOR from the OPC on my 981 GT4 was 70% of original cost at 8 1/2 years and 20,000 ish miles. ^^ Very low mileage - only about a quarter of "average mileage for age". As said above, about average mileage for a GT4 of that age. Probably about half its miles were done on track days or going to them, and I paid for the front bumper to be resprayed because it was suffering from the usual circuit gravel rash. It was just an honest, well-used, but well cared for example in completely original condition, and went for a reasonable price. It was on its second set of brake discs already, so hardly a "lightly used" example. Liam

I am looking at the yellow one at GC Motors, anyone know the car? https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202501097... If the warranty has a few weeks left and I bought it could I get it extended easily enough without doing a 110 point check? Edited to add the car was registered on 15/1/25 so unless its on SOR and the previous owner bought extended warranty, I would have to go through a 110 point check if I want the Porsche one, right? Edited by interstellar on Thursday 30th January 14:58

Yup that 2y warranty top up is quite an easy piece for the dealer to add in to try and close a deal.

Timoo said: I think with the new car warranty, this is tied in with the car so can be transferred no matter how it’s sold. Luckily the GTS I just bought came with warranty until Nov 2027 which is great news for me! IIRC new car warranty is only transferable if you sell from person to person or person to OPC. It doesn't continue if you sell to a private reseller.

scrounger73 said: Timoo said: IIRC new car warranty is only transferable if you sell from person to person or person to OPC. It doesn't continue if you sell to a private reseller. I think it's the extended warranty that is supposedly only transferrable in this way. But when I was hunting for my car, a couple of very reputable independent Porsche specialists were advertising their own stock (i.e. not SOR) cars with balance of the Porsche extended warranty and assured me I'd be able to transfer it.

You can do that as long as the car is still registered in an individual's name. If it's changed to a business name/ownership then I think it's gone. Could be wrong though.

Basically the transferable warranty is to give advantage to OPCs selling stock over indies where technically the warranty is not transferable if said indie owns the car and registers it in their name but because few places register the car in their name and simply leave it in the previous owners it is relatively easy to get round.

That car at Bristol which was added yesterday Timoo has been sold today as gone off Porsche finder

scrounger73 said: Timoo said: I think with the new car warranty, this is tied in with the car so can be transferred no matter how it’s sold. Luckily the GTS I just bought came with warranty until Nov 2027 which is great news for me! IIRC new car warranty is only transferable if you sell from person to person or person to OPC. It doesn't continue if you sell to a private reseller. My understanding is that any new car warranty remains with the car regardless of whether it came through a 3rd party dealer. The Porsche extended warranty can only be transferred privately. I purchased a Macan which was only 2 years old through a local trader. Subsequently the dreaded timing chain leak occurred and my OPC carried out the warranty work. They knew which trader the car had been purchased through and that it wasn't a private purchase as I had asked my OPC whether the new car warranty remained in place prior to purchase and they confirmed it did.

interstellar said: That car at Bristol which was added yesterday Timoo has been sold today as gone off Porsche finder It did! Asked the dealer when I spoke to them yesterday which he confirmed. Surprised at how quick it sold considering the higher price compared to the one I picked up. There is another well priced and well specced (and PCCB) GTS 4.0 at Cambridge that was listed yesterday.

Timoo said: interstellar said: That car at Bristol which was added yesterday Timoo has been sold today as gone off Porsche finder It did! Asked the dealer when I spoke to them yesterday which he confirmed. Surprised at how quick it sold considering the higher price compared to the one I picked up. There is another well priced and well specced (and PCCB) GTS 4.0 at Cambridge that was listed yesterday. yep looks good that one for a manual. I am driving a pdk tomorrow then I can choose which way I go gearbox wise. There are several cars I like but dont want to say on here as people keep buying them.

Timoo said: There is another well priced and well specced (and PCCB) GTS 4.0 at Cambridge that was listed yesterday. The Cambridge car is mine. At least for now. Hopefully it finds a good new home. I bought the car as a replacement for my 981 GT4 so I could take my son to nursery/school before going to work, hence the Isofix passenger seat. The carbon buckets of the GT4 were definitely not compatible with a 3-year old! The low milage is because the car would spend the winter in secure car storage, then we spent 18-months renovating a house where I didn't have the space to park it. So it has far fewer miles than I should have put on it. The car had its 4-year service done in November, and because there was a large cut found in one of the rears, I also replaced both the rear tyres. It also had a 3-4 days "Enhancement" polish and GTechniq application performed by Cambridge Autogleam in October 24. I always intended to do a track day or two a year, but never got round to it in the end. Besides, the occasional PEC day at Silverstone is better value for money as all the wear and tear goes on their cars. So the car hasn't been tracked at all, just road miles. Much as I love the Cayman, I've got a 992.2 GTS coming, and also have a 992.1 GT3, so it just won't be driven enough. I'd be keeping it because I like the idea of having a pure, manual GTS, but I know I'd only pick the keys up a few times a year and that's a waste. Better for someone else to enjoy the car properly. If it's someone from here, so much the better!

MissedTheApex said: Timoo said: There is another well priced and well specced (and PCCB) GTS 4.0 at Cambridge that was listed yesterday. The Cambridge car is mine. At least for now. Hopefully it finds a good new home. I bought the car as a replacement for my 981 GT4 so I could take my son to nursery/school before going to work, hence the Isofix passenger seat. The carbon buckets of the GT4 were definitely not compatible with a 3-year old! The low milage is because the car would spend the winter in secure car storage, then we spent 18-months renovating a house where I didn't have the space to park it. So it has far fewer miles than I should have put on it. The car had its 4-year service done in November, and because there was a large cut found in one of the rears, I also replaced both the rear tyres. It also had a 3-4 days "Enhancement" polish and GTechniq application performed by Cambridge Autogleam in October 24. I always intended to do a track day or two a year, but never got round to it in the end. Besides, the occasional PEC day at Silverstone is better value for money as all the wear and tear goes on their cars. So the car hasn't been tracked at all, just road miles. Much as I love the Cayman, I've got a 992.2 GTS coming, and also have a 992.1 GT3, so it just won't be driven enough. I'd be keeping it because I like the idea of having a pure, manual GTS, but I know I'd only pick the keys up a few times a year and that's a waste. Better for someone else to enjoy the car properly. If it's someone from here, so much the better! Someone has got a bargain as its already sold.

av185 said: From memory it is standard on the GTS 4.0 whether manual or PDK and there is no disable switch but unaware whether it can be disabled via the computer menu. Autobllp button is standard on the GT4 both manual and PDK. HTH. You say that as if the PDK doesn't always blip rev match downshifts. It does. Since the original PDK on the 9x7 cars. Otherwise, you'd get an awful shunt through the driveline on every downshift. You can't disable rev matching on a PDK car. I haven't driven a PDK 718 GT4 so I don't know what difference the button makes (assuming it's still present), but if it does make a difference, all it will be is a theatrical overblip as it will be blipping whatever mode it's in.

interstellar said: Someone has got a bargain as its already sold. You must be monitoring the cars closely! But, yes, subject to a viewing, then it's sold.

MissedTheApex said: interstellar said: Someone has got a bargain as its already sold. You must be monitoring the cars closely! But, yes, subject to a viewing, then it's sold. I assume as you know its subject to a viewing the person is on here? good for them, I thought it looked too cheap so good on them.

interstellar said: I assume as you know its subject to a viewing the person is on here? good for them, I thought it looked too cheap so good on them. I don't know if it's someone from this forum, could be. I just got told by the sales person it's sold subject to a viewing on Saturday. Which is fair enough. Even though it's a Porsche dealer, and an approved car, I'd want to see it first in their position.

I am getting there, driven a PDK today and was surprised it was a bit underwelming for me. Its nothing like driving the manual car so for me it has to be manual gearbox which I am surprised at. The last manual I had was in 2011 and it was a 911 but the Cayman manual feels like a completely different experience to the PDK I drove today and thats more of what I am looking for. Will report back when I have one. Edited by interstellar on Wednesday 5th March 16:11

I think the manual suits the Cayman. People don't like the longer gearing, but it gives you some time in the gear rather than looking like a demented monkey changing up and down constantly with short ratios and narrower power bands. Also, the Cayman is more of an old school car, so changing gear for yourself is something that feels right. I will miss it. In contrast, cars I've owned (or own) like the 992 GT3 and BMW M2, feel much better as PDK's. In my view, of course. Many will disagree! Weirdly, the one manic car I owned which still worked brilliantly as a manual was the EP3 (Bread Van) Civic Type-R!

I have the PDK 4.0 GTS, I test drove the manual and thought it felt a bit dead and 85mph in 2nd is daft really. PDK really does waken up the car and provide a bit more torque so win win. You only know which one to buy if you drive both back to back on a B road at lets say 60 to 90 mph, PDK wins for me and I am a manual die hard. No right or wrong choice, but I really did not like the longer gearing in the 981/718 range of cars. I do change gear manual with paddles 100% of the time, I never drive these cars in auto only. I also fitted the 4RS PDK shifter to my GTS so it looks like a manual gear knob and you can also use this.

GT_cars said: I have the PDK 4.0 GTS, I test drove the manual and thought it felt a bit dead and 85mph in 2nd is daft really. PDK really does waken up the car and provide a bit more torque so win win. Parasitic losses and more weight are against the PDK compared to the 'manuel'. If the PDK was the more special PDK S similar to the GT3 tend to think it would strengthen its case overall.

av185 said: Parasitic losses and more weight are against the PDK compared to the 'manual'. If the PDK was the more special PDK S similar to the GT3 tend to think it would strengthen its case overall. Drive back to back the PDK feels much faster and you get to use 3rd gear more, it's faster than my 718 Manual Spyder was. Shorter ratio's and more torque really over comes the longer gears and the tiny bit of extra weight under 100mph. I have both cars and vbox every thing the PDK is faster every where and that's vs a GT4/718SPyder let alone a GTS. PDK in sports plus on the GTS is really quite good in manual mode, you get a right shove. I would not want PDK S in a GTS it would ruin the car, the 4RS as an example the PDK Sport is too unsettling, on track you cannot really use it in the 4RS, the backs end moves and you also get wheel spin if damp, that's not trate you want in a GTS. On track in the 4RS I kept PDK in normal mode. I ran the 4RS, 718 GTS PDK and 718 Manual Spyder all at the same time, I know all the cars very well. Also the PDK GTS 4.0 LSD can transfer 30% more torque to the other side than the manual’s LSD A 10% shorter second gear of PDK means acceleration in the 50-100 mph range will be around 7% harder and YOU FEEL IT. The manual only catches up at much higher speeds ie 100mph+ where torque don't play a part and you notice a slight Parasitic loss but then you are well over legal speeds and then some. And if you like the traffic light GP the 0-60 is 1/2 a second faster which is quite a big margin vs the manual. I don't think you own a PDK GTS 4.0 :-) or have your 4RS yet (if you every get one) I loved my 991.2 GT3 manual, but the 718 manuals are a bit dead/dull to me feeling wise. I'll buy another 718 Spyder but it will be PDK next time it just works so well with that 4.0l engine.

GT_cars said: I loved my 991.2 GT3 manual, but the 718 manuals are a bit dead/dull to me feeling wise. I'll buy another 718 Spyder but it will be PDK next time it just works so well with that 4.0l engine. Why did you sell your red GT3 if you loved it so much? Seem to recollect it was approx the same spec as my white GT3 CS manual with ceramics which I sold in Spring 2023 and decided to keep my red 718 GT4 manual which overall I found better for road use road trips etc and almost as rapid and involving as the GT3 tbh.

For a weekend toy , definitely manual. More special, more involvement. The 4l has bags of torque and will cruise happily in 6th at 30mph. Track or daily - auto box

Mine will be a daily but I feel it’s more involved in the manual, I won’t track it and it’s not about what’s fastest for me. The manual had me grinning like a cat, the pdk didn’t so that’s what is driving the decision. Both cars are good but I didn’t think I would chose manual but I have and it would be boring if we all chose the same.

interstellar said: Mine will be a daily but I feel it’s more involved in the manual, I won’t track it and it’s not about what’s fastest for me. The manual had me grinning like a cat, the pdk didn’t so that’s what is driving the decision. Both cars are good but I didn’t think I would chose manual but I have and it would be boring if we all chose the same. A long gear manual is not involving if you don't need to change gear ! hence you can buy gear sets for it, but UK labour is so much £££ it's £12k job to do a gear swap.

av185 said: Why did you sell your red GT3 if you loved it so much? Seem to recollect it was approx the same spec as my white GT3 CS manual with ceramics which I sold in Spring 2023 and decided to keep my red 718 GT4 manual which overall I found better for road use road trips etc and almost as rapid and involving as the GT3 tbh. Easy to answer, it needed £6k work and a trader offered me £5k over what I paid, so it went and i made a mistake. So in real money £11k up to let it go. And to be honest I was just not driving it enough at the time due to work. A GT4 just as rapid and involving as the GT3 lol you on drugs :-)

interstellar said: Mine will be a daily but I feel it’s more involved in the manual, I won’t track it and it’s not about what’s fastest for me. The manual had me grinning like a cat, the pdk didn’t so that’s what is driving the decision. Both cars are good but I didn’t think I would chose manual but I have and it would be boring if we all chose the same. that's what matters :-) now try and SPASM car vs a PASM car lol I would really try and get a SPASM one it feels more sporty.

Mine is a PASM, and I felt it was perfect for UK roads with decent compliance and responsiveness. It's not like the car suddenly becomes a wallowing mess with PASM, it just gives you a touch more compliance which is highly welcome on our terrible roads. Moreover, in terms of ground clearance I found PASM on the Cayman to be almost identical to the GT3 when FAL is engaged. Both scrape about the same amount on the parking ramps and speed bumps on the roads where I regularly drive both. Sure, you could live with another 10mm drop in height to S-PASM, but it would involve a lot more caution and/or impacts with speed bumps, parking ramps, etc. If you're going to track a car, then S-PASM would be the way. But if the car is going to spend most of its time on roads, especially anywhere in the UK with terrible roads, then PASM is a better trade-off in my view.

GT_cars said: interstellar said: Mine will be a daily but I feel it’s more involved in the manual, I won’t track it and it’s not about what’s fastest for me. The manual had me grinning like a cat, the pdk didn’t so that’s what is driving the decision. Both cars are good but I didn’t think I would chose manual but I have and it would be boring if we all chose the same. that's what matters :-) now try and SPASM car vs a PASM car lol I would really try and get a SPASM one it feels more sporty. Cant see on Porsche finder how you can find a SPASM car, not that I would notice the difference. Thats not a big ticket item for me. Would it be this Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM) sports suspension with ride height lowered by 20 mm rather than the 10mm for PASM? Edited by interstellar on Thursday 6th March 10:41

[Image-only or quote-only post; no author-written text.] https://forums-images.pistonheads.com/401808/202503064080266?resize=720

GT_cars said: av185 said: Why did you sell your red GT3 if you loved it so much? Seem to recollect it was approx the same spec as my white GT3 CS manual with ceramics which I sold in Spring 2023 and decided to keep my red 718 GT4 manual which overall I found better for road use road trips etc and almost as rapid and involving as the GT3 tbh. Easy to answer, it needed £6k work and a trader offered me £5k over what I paid, so it went and i made a mistake. So in real money £11k up to let it go. And to be honest I was just not driving it enough at the time due to work. A GT4 just as rapid and involving as the GT3 lol you on drugs :-) Haha nice try. I said for ROAD use. Drive a manual GT4 and report back!

interstellar said: ...Would it be this Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM) sports suspension with ride height lowered by 20 mm rather than the 10mm for PASM? Correct

I collected my '22 car with PASM Sport last week. I had an extended test drive in OPC Wolverhampton's GTS 4.0 demonstrator which had 918 buckets but the softer PASM -10mm option which I thought was a strange combination. As has been posted elsewhere, I suspect there is some confusion over the spec with maybe some people optioning the -10mm thinking it's a further drop from the -20mm which is standard on the 4.0 GTS. The PASM Sport doesn’t feel much stiffer than my previous Cayman 981S on 20" wheels with PASM and rides like a limo compared with my old 968 with M030! It's probably also better ride quality than my 986S Boxster with 18" and M030 and 987S Gen 1 with 18" and PASM.

DRH986 said: I collected my '22 car with PASM Sport last week. I had an extended test drive in OPC Wolverhampton's GTS 4.0 demonstrator which had 918 buckets but the softer PASM -10mm option which I thought was a strange combination. As has been posted elsewhere, I suspect there is some confusion over the spec with maybe some people optioning the -10mm thinking it's a further drop from the -20mm which is standard on the 4.0 GTS. The PASM Sport doesn’t feel much stiffer than my previous Cayman 981S on 20" wheels with PASM and rides like a limo compared with my old 968 with M030! It's probably also better ride quality than my 986S Boxster with 18" and M030 and 987S Gen 1 with 18" and PASM. I also had a 987S Gen 1 with 18"s and PASM, and now have a GTS 4.0 with SPASM. Personally I think the 987S definitely had the sweeter ride. I reckon the GTS 4.0 would be a more tactile car if it came on 19"s, but it still rides really well given that it's on 20"s. The damping in particular does a really good job, it's very well resolved.

DRH986 said: I collected my '22 car with PASM Sport last week. I had an extended test drive in OPC Wolverhampton's GTS 4.0 demonstrator which had 918 buckets but the softer PASM -10mm option which I thought was a strange combination. As has been posted elsewhere, I suspect there is some confusion over the spec with maybe some people optioning the -10mm thinking it's a further drop from the -20mm which is standard on the 4.0 GTS. The PASM Sport doesn’t feel much stiffer than my previous Cayman 981S on 20" wheels with PASM and rides like a limo compared with my old 968 with M030! It's probably also better ride quality than my 986S Boxster with 18" and M030 and 987S Gen 1 with 18" and PASM. Pics please

interstellar said: Pics please This is about the best I've got so far - hoping for some better ones over the weekend!

VERY nice indeed and summer is coming :-)

Lovely indeed, shark blue is a great colour on these cars.

What’s the view on what age and mileage is worth Car A is a 2020 done 12k Car B is a 2023 done 6k Similar spec same colour. Likely gap in price to help decide which one to go for? What is 6k miles worth and a car 3 years younger?

I'd suggest around £4K more for the 2023 12K miles car versus the 2020 6K miles car.

Mileage is the other way round. The older car has 6k more.

Ah, yeah, reading is not my strong point, clearly! Maybe £6K. When milage is fairly low (as 12K is hardly high milage for a car of this age) I don't think there's a huge difference in value based on the miles. It's more on the MY.

Thanks.

Car B could have nearly 2 years warranty left on it and when it does expire you simply walk into the dealership and extend it. The other has none unless purchased from an OPC. Its circa £600 PA for the OPC warranty which you'd be nuts not to take.

moonigan said: Car B could have nearly 2 years warranty left on it and when it does expire you simply walk into the dealership and extend it. The other has none unless purchased from an OPC. Its circa £600 PA for the OPC warranty which you'd be nuts not to take. Car A is being sold on SOR and has 21 months of extended warranty on it. Warranty was purchased in Nov 24 and can be transferred as counted as a private sale if it’s SOR.

Still not pulled the trigger but might have found the one. Done 5k and had rev range data as follows Range 1 - 90 Range 2 - 0 Range 3- 0 Crack on and buy it. I ‘ll admit I don’t understand it but is it an issue or nothing at all to be concerned with?

That is zero concern. Range 1 is up to 8100 rpm Range 2 .............8100-8400 rpm, and each "count" is 1 ignition, so approx 400/sec. So that car has just about kissed the rev limiter for a fraction of a second once. Porsche only conduct any examinations on range 3 and above (8400 on GTS, 8600 on GT4~ physically identical engine). You'll have to buy it now.

I was about to until the dealer decided they got the price wrong

So after a couple of months of owning it we finally had a beautiful spring day. So I set off to North Wales and had a 200 mile blast around some fantastic roads, I think it’s a keeper, the way it handles A roads at pace is something else. Edited by Whistle on Saturday 29th March 12:31

Am looking at a October 2020 car. Was first serviced in October 2022 so due the major in October 2024 but the OPC is saying they will do it prior to sale and its not been done yet. Being 6 months late is that a concern for resale or not, the car will be an approved car with two years warranty but am surprised its not been done?

I'd be wanting a pretty chunky discount for a missing/late service, especially if you are ever planning to sell the car again where it will look weird and every buyer will point it out expecting to chip the price. It's not even as if they have to be serviced every year, he had 24 months and yet still couldn't get it done on time.

interstellar said: Am looking at a October 2020 car. Was first serviced in October 2022 so due the major in October 2024 but the OPC is saying they will do it prior to sale and its not been done yet. Being 6 months late is that a concern for resale or not, the car will be an approved car with two years warranty but am surprised its not been done? I wouldnt be over concerned. Expensive service so this could explain it. What did the OPC saying the reason for it is?

RTA3 said: I wouldnt be over concerned. Expensive service so this could explain it. What did the OPC saying the reason for it is? I agree. A major is big dollar. If they're doing it for free then grab it while you can. Just check those pesky tyres for tread depth.

For those who may be interested, there’s a decent plate coming up in the next DVLA auction… https://dvlaauction.co.uk/auction/B273/982GTS