Cayman GTS v Cayman R - Page 4 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

What would you have and why? Which do you imagine will be the better car to drive?

Sorry to hijack the topic so early, but perhaps this could include Boxster GTS Vs Boxster Spyder as they are all related in ethos. I specced up a boxster and cayman gts yesterday. I put on all the options I would think reasonable for that model like the GTS interior and exterior but left off big things like ceramics. I nearly fell off my seat when it came to 70k! I used to think that was 911 territory new. The thing that really puzzles me is needing a GTS package on a GTS model. To actually make it unique you need to upgrade or else what's the point in buying the GTS. Neither the Spyder or R needed upgrades to make them special. I know it is money making by Porsche, it just seems ridiculous. There is no way either GTS models will be looked at in the same light as the Spyder or R. On the launch video that was posted the CEO also said the GTS would be the pinnacle of the range, so I don't think anything more extreme is on the way, certainly not something with unique bodywork. I really don't see the GTS as direct replacements. I've no doubt they will be very capable but they just don't appeal in the same way as Spyder or the R did. First Spyder picture shown I immediately went 'Want it!', when I found out it wasn't priced out the ball park it became a must. I thought it was a performance/rarity bargain. First time I saw it in the metal I felt it looked like a sports car from several classes up. Either GTS will not do that.

Objectively, the GTS (and even the 981 S) have a lot of what made the R great. You could make either a lot like an R with the right option choices. Subjectively, I would prefer the R. The GTS is a bit overpriced, although I think people do need to chill out on the aesthetic options! Porsche always take the piss on options, so why take anything inessential?

Subjectively, the looks of the 987 Cayman put me right off, particularly the side view. To me, the 981 looks much better. gorgeous even. I am also not happy about the look of the Spyder (can't abide the fat top Speedster look). I also find the interior and electronics of the 981 much advanced. So, depends how important the looks are to you. As I get older, the outright performance and track ability is less important than it used to be. If you want to spec a car exactly to preference, will have to suck in and buy new. My trial config for a Boxster GTS came in at £63,500, so I started looking at what else second hand for £60k. Quite a lot. Anyway, purely academic for another year. I hope to get my S back from the body shop next week. Its been a long wait. Nic

DS240 said: Sorry to hijack the topic so early, but perhaps this could include Boxster GTS Vs Boxster Spyder as they are all related in ethos. I specced up a boxster and cayman gts yesterday. I put on all the options I would think reasonable for that model like the GTS interior and exterior but left off big things like ceramics. I nearly fell off my seat when it came to 70k! I used to think that was 911 territory new. The thing that really puzzles me is needing a GTS package on a GTS model. To actually make it unique you need to upgrade or else what's the point in buying the GTS. Neither the Spyder or R needed upgrades to make them special. I know it is money making by Porsche, it just seems ridiculous. There is no way either GTS models will be looked at in the same light as the Spyder or R. On the launch video that was posted the CEO also said the GTS would be the pinnacle of the range, so I don't think anything more extreme is on the way, certainly not something with unique bodywork. I really don't see the GTS as direct replacements. I've no doubt they will be very capable but they just don't appeal in the same way as Spyder or the R did. First Spyder picture shown I immediately went 'Want it!', when I found out it wasn't priced out the ball park it became a must. I thought it was a performance/rarity bargain. First time I saw it in the metal I felt it looked like a sports car from several classes up. Either GTS will not do that. love a good hijack DS240 spyder argument is sound. GTS models have the unique bumpers and extra 10HP. Spyders and CR have a different tuning philosophy- To push the 987 package to its extreme in terms of what Porsche were offering at the time for 987 whilst bearing in mind drivability and cost (both to porsche and clients). For what is unique bodywork, in addition to unique bumpers plus a lightweight philosophy, this creates the most desirable boxster ever. The boxster GTS - not a patch. good looking car but recognisably a boxster. The CR on the other hand doesn't offer the same unique bodywork but focused on vehicle dynamics whilst being constrained in the same way. It is a brilliant drive on roads and track although arguably a better road car than a track car out of the box.Since it doesn't really look different to the vanilla cayman (stickers notwithstanding), I'd argue that the GTS cayman, judiciously spec.ed to include buckets, PSE, torque vectoring, sport chrono is the better choice. However the CR is a lot cheaper. But if you like the looks of the 981 cayman to begin with, the GTS is the better car (for me).. the sole caveat being the 981 CR. no such problems on the 987 CR. I'm waiting for the 981 CR.

I won't be selling either of mine to buy a GTS. So that says it all really. I am also in the older camp where I think the 987.2 looks better and is more Cayman less 911 the 987 just flows better where the new car has angles. But it's the drive at the end of the day, the R is awesome to drive on the road it's very gt3 like without being annoying. The 981 are like driving new Audi's since Audi are making car with better feel and Porsche are making cars with less feel. Again says it all when car mags say a Aston has more feel than a gt3. Bloody nice cars all the same but not drivers cars with old style feel. Nice to have a real diff, real shocks, and steering which feels alive with no dead spot. You you want a nice car then GTS, if you are a car nut and have owned GT3's and CSL's the R is the only choice. Edited by mrdemon on Sunday 27th April 10:11

MrD, having owned the end of line CR and 7.2RS , and used them on track, the CR is more a GT3 lite (and not GT3 like). Not a patch on the RS. I mean not even close and I like the spyder/CR. fact is, I am one of their biggest fans. It's just that when you push the cars, the GT3 comes into its own. if you like the lines of the 987 car and something has to be said for the more lithe lines, that car is a the winner but if you like the more angular, squatter 981 than I think it merits consideration. They are at different price points......... with the 981 cayman, you still get that ol 6-speeder and steering is just fine plus a much better interior. I do think about getting another CR but it would only be a placeholder until the next 981 CR.

HokumPokum said: I do think about getting another CR but it would only be a placeholder until the next 981 CR. If indeed they do actually introduce one. I sincerely hope they do but what's to say it won't be pdk only and lacking the 987's character,as per the 991/997 gt3.

The RS gen 2 works better than any other gt3 imo because of the low ratio gear box the only gt3 with it. I ment more the steering is gt3 like ESP after you have sorted the geo and fitted gt3 control arms. (Infact it better than the GT3 once you have done that, the gt3 fronts a bit light) and on the road the front ARB is way to stiff. As we all know it impossible to push a gt3 on the road , so the R wins hands down to push and get the most out of it and enjoy. On track GT3 wins hands down ESP in gen 2 RS form.

pistolp said: What would you have and why? Which do you imagine will be the better car to drive? Seems a bit late to ask, just seen you have ordered a GTS . Enjoy ;-)

I have to subscribe to how expensive little porkers have become. 70k fully specced is really recent R8 V10 territory. Say what you will.. And I love my Porsches.. But if I have a choice between an entry level souped up Porker or a proper supercar with a Lambo sourced V10 with a gated manual.. And running costs would not be that different. Actually depreciation might be a touch lighter for the Audi :-)

rosino said: I have to subscribe to how expensive little porkers have become. 70k fully specced is really recent R8 V10 territory. Say what you will.. And I love my Porsches.. But if I have a choice between an entry level souped up Porker or a proper supercar with a Lambo sourced V10 with a gated manual.. And running costs would not be that different. Actually depreciation might be a touch lighter for the Audi :-)

I would buy a v10 r8 tomorrow but a few things stop me. 1: mpg , 17 mpg is annoying. 2. Car width, it's wide and not a B road hack. 3: space, it has none. So even though they look great, are very fast and now good value, I cannot use one :-(

I've ordered one but it's not too late. I might go and drive an R to see if I can appreciate it to the same degree some owners clearly do. Trouble is there aren't many around in a spec I like, if I could find a peridot green one with a manual I'd be sorely tempted. My GTS is coming out at 73k so an R at 40k is tempting. Nice one at Westover?

(New R8 rumoured to be even wider... http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/scoop/new-audi-r... - how usable would that be in the UK.)

Been watching the Cayman R market for the last couple of months they seem to be selling like hot cake and comanding higher prices than 6 months ago. Small limited numbers made and demand i guess.

pistolp said: I've ordered one but it's not too late. I might go and drive an R to see if I can appreciate it to the same degree some owners clearly do. Trouble is there aren't many around in a spec I like, if I could find a peridot green one with a manual I'd be sorely tempted. My GTS is coming out at 73k so an R at 40k is tempting. Nice one at Westover? £73k for a GTS? Makes the £55k I paid for my CR look like a bargain, although I did pay the total sum when I ordered it to avoid the 20% VAT :-) To me, the GTS is far more like the 987.1 Cayman S Sport rather than the Cayman R. The suspension on the CR and Spyder couldn't be had on any other 987 car, likewise the aluminium doors. The latter is nice to have, but the former transforms the car completely. Who knows that whether we'll see a 981 R/Spyder, but I'm not convinced that either was enough of a success first time around for Porsche to have another go. And even if they do, I doubt we'll see much weight loss involved, since most of the cars out there put most of the weight saving back in anyway!

I read somewhere that because the GTS is quite close to the R ... the new R will be even more focussed. However, I would also observe that in the real world, the CR is very very competent. There are many places where a very stiff car simply cannot keep it's "feet on the ground". Which I believe brings us back to the essence of the CR ... didn't the mags say it was the best handling car they had ever driven ? And it's also a great daily driver

pistolp said: I've ordered one but it's not too late. I might go and drive an R to see if I can appreciate it to the same degree some owners clearly do. Trouble is there aren't many around in a spec I like, if I could find a peridot green one with a manual I'd be sorely tempted. My GTS is coming out at 73k so an R at 40k is tempting. Nice one at Westover? Come try mine - it will be under 40k.

ChrisW. said: I read somewhere that because the GTS is quite close to the R ... the new R will be even more focussed. However, I would also observe that in the real world, the CR is very very competent. There are many places where a very stiff car simply cannot keep it's "feet on the ground". Which I believe brings us back to the essence of the CR ... didn't the mags say it was the best handling car they had ever driven ? And it's also a great daily driver quite possibly but i am due to try the exige v6 cup on track at silverstone so that may upset the apple cart but even if ultimately the exile proved to be a better track car, it won't beat the CR as a daily driver and the usability of 2 trunks. Evo mentioned that the next CR may be porsche motorsport fettled..... here's hoping for an optional clubsport pack......

Comparisons between old and new boxsters and Caymans are ten a penny, it is interesting to see how many of the differences between old R/Spyders and 981's hold up. Vastly better interior, better electronics, lighter, longer wheelbase, wider track, bigger inside, more fuel efficient. Is a new Cayman S lighter and more powerful than an old R? I don't know. It's the interior that's the biggie for me. A 981 interior really looks and feels like the same quality as a £100k+ 911 and I don't think you can say that about an R or Spyder. Edited by paralla on Sunday 27th April 22:00

I think the CR (or any 987) looks very dated against a 981. Same for the interiors. I'd gladly have a Cayman GTS over my Spyder now, but no way could I justify the massive depreciation, when the car I've got is holding its own.

R1nur said: Come try mine - it will be under 40k. What's the spec and miles? Thanks J

The GTS looks far too much like the 911 at the back for me to ever consider buying one. The rear end of the 987.1 was the reason why I love the car. As a new-ish owner I would say that the standard 987 S (perhaps with a power tweak if I get too used to the current power available) is all that is required. That is my view and I understand that many others are lovers of 911's and may rather like the less curvy rear.

mrdemon said: I have never said it before but since the new 981 Cayman has come out, it is just is a poor mans 911 now. the cars always held it's own before, but now, it's just a cheaper slower 911 all be it an expensive one lol. I am not a fan of the big centre tunnel either on a RWD car, the nice point about RWD is no tunnel and more room. really not sure why people are so excited about the 981 range esp in Cayman form I used to pride myself choosing a Cayman over a 997 now I think I would have to make the jump to the base model 991, the 991 is not a rear engine car anymore so you may as well get a real 350BHp. people always harp on about "if only the Cayman Had more power) but now the 991 is a Cayman just buy that sub 10 second 100mph car. even the 991 size is not much bigger now, only 7mm wider. I guess that's always the issue when a Company want to make them look all the same, the cheaper ones then are poor mans versions. I agree with mr d on this I would rather have a991 than a 981 .imho a porsche as always looked spartan in the cabin and that is what I like but now it looks to Audi. I would take the R over a Gts IMHO it's the purer porsche and better looking

itsybitsy said: I agree with mr d on this I would rather have a991 than a 981 .imho a porsche as always looked spartan in the cabin and that is what I like but now it looks to Audi. I would take the R over a Gts IMHO it's the purer porsche and better looking + 1

I have never said it before but since the new 981 Cayman has come out, it is just is a poor mans 911 now. the cars always held it's own before, but now, it's just a cheaper slower 911 all be it an expensive one lol. I am not a fan of the big centre tunnel either on a RWD car, the nice point about RWD is no tunnel and more room. really not sure why people are so excited about the 981 range esp in Cayman form I used to pride myself choosing a Cayman over a 997 now I think I would have to make the jump to the base model 991, the 991 is not a rear engine car anymore so you may as well get a real 350BHp. people always harp on about "if only the Cayman Had more power) but now the 991 is a Cayman(or should I say a Cayman is now very 911) just buy that sub 10 second 100mph car. even the 991 size is not much bigger now, only 7mm wider. I guess that's always the issue when a Company want to make them look all the same, the cheaper ones then are poor mans versions. Edited by mrdemon on Monday 28th April 09:53

you lot have to be care full agreeing with me on here lol.

Well for me status, kudos and stigma aren't part of the decision. If I wanted a 911 I'd buy one of those. For me its the 6 speed manual, mid engined layout and drop dead gorgeous exterior. I don't think that everyone always thought and continues to think that a cayman is a gesture from Porsche for people who can't afford a 911. Anyone who thinks a 911 is better than a Cayman because of a name/badge or because of how it's perceived is a wally.

mrdemon said: I have never said it before but since the new 981 Cayman has come out, it is just is a poor mans 911 now. the cars always held it's own before, but now, it's just a cheaper slower 911 all be it an expensive one lol. I am not a fan of the big centre tunnel either on a RWD car, the nice point about RWD is no tunnel and more room. really not sure why people are so excited about the 981 range esp in Cayman form I used to pride myself choosing a Cayman over a 997 now I think I would have to make the jump to the base model 991, the 991 is not a rear engine car anymore so you may as well get a real 350BHp. people always harp on about "if only the Cayman Had more power) but now the 991 is a Cayman just buy that sub 10 second 100mph car. even the 991 size is not much bigger now, only 7mm wider. I guess that's always the issue when a Company want to make them look all the same, the cheaper ones then are poor mans versions. 991 is still rear engined.

The 981 does not look more like a 991 than the 987 did like a 997. If anything, I think the new Cayman is more differentiated from the 911 than was the case for the previous generation. I like my 987.2 in part because it shares its curvy shape with the 997 (which I also like). The 981 is a lot more angular than any 911. I agree re the centre console/tunnel on the 981. It is a very strange addition. I find the cabin a bit cluttered and "modern", too. On a bit of a tangent, I test drove a Mazda 3 this weekend and loved its slighly old-school unfussy cabin (without loads of stupid lights and buttons). I think Porsche has so far done OK (but no better than OK) at avoiding becoming all tech-obsessed and glittery (like an Audi or Ford), but there has definitely been a move that way between the 987 and the 981. For what it is worth, I am pretty sure that ALL of the major weight-saving steps, suspension tweaks and the power bump from the Cayman R are now in (as standard or as options) in the 981. You can have a 981 in Cayman R flavour if you want, apart from silly things like the little door pulls (which are extremely naff in a car that still weighs 1300kg or so!)

Kawasicki said: mrdemon said: I have never said it before but since the new 981 Cayman has come out, it is just is a poor mans 911 now. the cars always held it's own before, but now, it's just a cheaper slower 911 all be it an expensive one lol. I am not a fan of the big centre tunnel either on a RWD car, the nice point about RWD is no tunnel and more room. really not sure why people are so excited about the 981 range esp in Cayman form I used to pride myself choosing a Cayman over a 997 now I think I would have to make the jump to the base model 991, the 991 is not a rear engine car anymore so you may as well get a real 350BHp. people always harp on about "if only the Cayman Had more power) but now the 991 is a Cayman just buy that sub 10 second 100mph car. even the 991 size is not much bigger now, only 7mm wider. I guess that's always the issue when a Company want to make them look all the same, the cheaper ones then are poor mans versions. 991 is still rear engined. And under a second difference in lap times, spec for spec around Bedford West...

Kawasicki said: 991 is still rear engined. what's a 458 then ? Porsche keep bringing that engine forward and keep widening that front track so help turn it, it's nothing like a 911 these days only in name.

mrdemon said: what's a 458 then ? mid engined.

mrdemon said: what's a 458 then ? Porsche keep bringing that engine forward and keep widening that front track so help turn it, it's nothing like a 911 these days only in name. 458 would be mid-engined. Think the 911 engine is still far enough back to be rear engined. The lump would be where the seats are if mid engined.

mrdemon said: Kawasicki said: 991 is still rear engined. what's a 458 then ? Porsche keep bringing that engine forward and keep widening that front track so help turn it, it's nothing like a 911 these days only in name. Agree there's convergence but the 991's a whole heap of cash more expensive in the real World. I think your idea might make sense on a heavily loaded GTS v base 991 but would you be happy with base spec and not want buckets and some toys...

Kawasicki said: mid engined. both are 42 front 58 rear on the weight split :-) Porsche are not daft true rear engine layout was dead years ago.

mrdemon said: both are 42 front 58 rear on the weight split :-) Porsche are not daft true rear engine layout was dead years ago. Weight distribution doesn't equal handling. Cars are always being optimised...here is some gumpf about the '69 911 B series "In 1969 the B-series offered a better solution to improve the 911's behaviour. The rear wheels were moved 57 mm backwards, changing the fore /aft weight distribution from 41.5 / 58.5 to 43 / 57. This meant the 911 became more stable" There is nothing unusual about a rear engined car with 42/58 weight dist.

Mr D is conflating rear-engined and rear-heavy. Plenty of FR cars have about a 50/50 split: the weight distribution does not tell you much about the layout. The 911 is still rear-engined because the engine is above and/or bit behind the rear axle, rather than being located within the wheel base (like the Cayman or any other mid-engined car). Simple, really...

They can't be that close as the gearbox's are located differently, no?

ORD said: Mr D is conflating rear-engined and rear-heavy. Plenty of FR cars have about a 50/50 split: the weight distribution does not tell you much about the layout. The 911 is still rear-engined because the engine is above and/or bit behind the rear axle, rather than being located within the wheel base (like the Cayman or any other mid-engined car). Simple, really... and you think with all the electrics going on the layman can tell a Cayman from a 991 when driving. a 964 from a few years back had over 60% weight at the rear, Porsche keep bringing it in :-) my CSL had a front engine with 50/50 split so agree it does not say much about layout , but the new Cayman and 991 are so close now its getting a mute point imo Edited by mrdemon on Monday 28th April 14:01

It was always a cat for me, but I take your point entirely.

Rather than paying out the money for the GTS I would be tempted buy a base 981 with PCCB's, PASM, BiXenons which in manual just comes a little over the price of a GTS. Not that I would buy a new Porsche of any model as on the whole they do depreciate a lot, and at the four years from new point represent bargain motoring. I still think the rear of 987 Cayman looks like a dog straining for a crap at certain angles and can't get that image out of my mind. The new Cayman I looked at in my local OPC in glittery black and PCCB's looked about the best looking car all round I'd seen for a long time. I wouldn't have thought that Porsche will miss such an obvious trick as to not bring out a 981 Cayman R or Boxster Spyder in time and I'm sure it will be superb. Forgot to mention sports exhaust too, but is it worth it in the Cayman, can you hear it? Edited by BIRMA on Monday 28th April 20:16

mrdemon said: I won't be selling either of mine to buy a GTS. So that says it all really. I am also in the older camp where I think the 987.2 looks better and is more Cayman less 911 the 987 just flows better where the new car has angles. But it's the drive at the end of the day, the R is awesome to drive on the road it's very gt3 like without being annoying. The 981 are like driving new Audi's since Audi are making car with better feel and Porsche are making cars with less feel. Again says it all when car mags say a Aston has more feel than a gt3. Bloody nice cars all the same but not drivers cars with old style feel. Nice to have a real diff, real shocks, and steering which feels alive with no dead spot. You you want a nice car then GTS, if you are a car nut and have owned GT3's and CSL's the R is the only choice. Edited by mrdemon on Sunday 27th April 10:11 I finally managed to drive an R yesterday, and I have to say I tend to agree with mrdemon on this one. The 981 S just left me cold, very much like an Audi TT. The R has that edge which makes it so much more enjoyable and desirable. Unfortunately even the most creative man maths isn't going to put me in an R for a good few months.

Depends on how the 981s is spec.ed........ If you want a great driving car and looks unique, get a lotus evora or exige, can't be beat. If you care about a best compromise, then the Porsche and even then the spec on the 981 is critical No real answer! how deep is your wallet?

HokumPokum said: Depends on how the 981s is spec.ed........ If you want a great driving car and looks unique, get a lotus evora or exige, can't be beat. If you care about a best compromise, then the Porsche and even then the spec on the 981 is critical No real answer! how deep is your wallet? I agree, I've been a long term Lotus owner and chose a Boxster/Cayman over the Exige for a number of reasons. If you are using the car for 10% road use and 90% track use the Exige is your obvious choice otherwise the go kart handling and firm suspension becomes tiresome if you use the car mostly on the road. I found that for my use of 90% road 10% track days the fact that you could switch off the 'Exige like' suspension settings was to my taste. The other thing I can't quite understand is if Chris Harris on here reckons the new Cayman to be the benchmark why is it coming in for so much negative comments.

Because there are more 987 owners than 981 owners on PH and almost all Porsche owners prefer the car that they have (because it is theirs) to one that they would have to spend 10s of thousands to own. Note also all the rubbish about how much better a 996 or 997 is than the 991. People find it hard to distinguish between "I prefer x" and "x is better". (I say all of this as a 987 owner that actually prefers his car's looks and steering but wont pretend that it is objectively better than a 981 that is (1) faster, (2) lighter, (3) grippier, (4) more comfortable, (5) more refined and (6) more efficient.)

I don't get all the hype about the R over a 981S personally? Drove a couple at the time I owned my GT3 (manual and PDK) and whilst impressed with the car (apart from idiotic door straps) was far from blown away. Now having a 981S, albeit with about a year gap, I can't discern any massive difference to my memory of the drive in the R's, notwithstanding the minor numbing of the steering?

ORD said: Because there are more 987 owners than 981 owners on PH and almost all Porsche owners prefer the car that they have (because it is theirs) to one that they would have to spend 10s of thousands to own. I think that is bulls t sorry :-) I waited 2 years for the new Cayman, and while I was waiting bought a Spyder, GT3 and a M3 V8 to have a play in. when I test drove the new car 2 or 3 times to make sure, it was a no brainer to then buy the Cayman R over the newer car. I buy what I like and slag off what I own if I don't like it, but will move it on fast and buy some think else if I don't like it. the 981 is just not an exciting car imo, where as the Cayman R offers all that one needs for the fun of driving, bar the fixed roof, hence owning it's sister car the SPyder for when it's sunny, still the best 2 cars from the Porsche stable for a long long time. each to their own of course ;-) Edited by mrdemon on Friday 2nd May 12:30

This why it is pointless debating it on an internet forum with strangers. Sadly I have periods where I can't help myself.

pistolp said: This why it is pointless debating it on an internet forum with strangers. Sadly I have periods where I can't help myself. It's always good to get considered opinions about cars from sensible owners though. Ultimately I always make my mind up by arranging to drive the cars I have in mind as close together as possible. Some time ago within my budget was a 360 and Aston Martin and a 911 Turbo drove them all within a two day period, the 911 was my favourite but after driving back from the test drives I kept my Esprit V8.

A couple of people have mentioned waiting for a 981 R. Shouldn't the Spyder and Cayman R be considered run-out models and therefore, if you want 981 versions, you'll have to wait until near the end of the 981's (or indeed the "981.2's") model life? Isn't that probably 5 years away at least?

Not sure they will build a 981R Cayman what with the new GTS range.

braddo said: A couple of people have mentioned waiting for a 981 R. Shouldn't the Spyder and Cayman R be considered run-out models and therefore, if you want 981 versions, you'll have to wait until near the end of the 981's (or indeed the "981.2's") model life? Isn't that probably 5 years away at least? I still think Porsche are far too switched on to miss an opportunity to sell even more 981's during the mid life of the car. Although I hasten to add I know nothing of the company's strategy it just makes good business sense to capture the market for a more track focused car to run along with the standard 981 purely and simply because they can.

ORD said: Because there are more 987 owners than 981 owners on PH and almost all Porsche owners prefer the car that they have (because it is theirs) to one that they would have to spend 10s of thousands to own. Note also all the rubbish about how much better a 996 or 997 is than the 991. People find it hard to distinguish between "I prefer x" and "x is better". (I say all of this as a 987 owner that actually prefers his car's looks and steering but wont pretend that it is objectively better than a 981 that is (1) faster, (2) lighter, (3) grippier, (4) more comfortable, (5) more refined and (6) more efficient.) I think you have just about summed it up there.

mrdemon said: ORD said: Because there are more 987 owners than 981 owners on PH and almost all Porsche owners prefer the car that they have (because it is theirs) to one that they would have to spend 10s of thousands to own. I think that is bulls t sorry :-) I waited 2 years for the new Cayman, and while I was waiting bought a Spyder, GT3 and a M3 V8 to have a play in. when I test drove the new car 2 or 3 times to make sure, it was a no brainer to then buy the Cayman R over the newer car. I buy what I like and slag off what I own if I don't like it, but will move it on fast and buy some think else if I don't like it. the 981 is just not an exciting car imo, where as the Cayman R offers all that one needs for the fun of driving, bar the fixed roof, hence owning it's sister car the SPyder for when it's sunny, still the best 2 cars from the Porsche stable for a long long time. each to their own of course ;-) Edited by mrdemon on Friday 2nd May 12:30 I was dealing with the criticism of the 981 more generally, rather than whether or not it is comparable (in GTS form) to the R. I have never driven an R, but I can well imagine that it feels more "special" and/or "focused" than any 981 (in part because it is less refined and less generic).

pistolp said: This why it is pointless debating it on an internet forum with strangers. Sadly I have periods where I can't help myself. I should not go on forums either :-) you are welcome to drive either my Cayman R or Spyder. both have better tyres (pilot SS and race maxx) on and a better geo than oem. but bar that standard which is rare as I mod most of my cars within reason to about 5k these cars there is just no need to mod them. (unless more track use, then fitting GT3 lower arms would be good and a pad swap out)

I've never had an invitation to drive either the R or the Spyder, despite often defending MrD against criticism, so take up the offer while you can, P. Please be aware that MrD lives in some God-forsaken part of England (i.e. not London), if I remember correctly.

just close to jct 20 M1 :-), not to far north lol I don't mind like minded people having a go in my cars if they are serious about buying that model or are unsure about the models as long as they already own a car like that. I'll lend out lens, camera's etc to any one who asks or wants to try stuff and have done. it's only a bit of hardware hence why I am unsure the GT3 lot get so defensive if you dare question them on any thing ;-) tech is taking over cars, the new cars are great cars and Porsche have to keep with the times, but some people just want a newish car but with a bit more feel, the R ticks the box's time and time again, and even though it's not much different over a normal S the tweeks make it a true classic driving machine. I spent 6 years in Lotus's and Nobles to give me that extra feel but as the years pile on they are just not that nice to use day to day. Edited by mrdemon on Friday 2nd May 15:08

mrdemon said: tech is taking over cars, the new cars are great cars and Porsche have to keep with the times, but some people just want a newish car but with a bit more feel, the R ticks the box's time and time again, and even though it's not much different over a normal S the tweeks make it a true classic driving machine. Modern day M3 CSL difference to the M3?

mrdemon said: I should not go on forums either :-) you are welcome to drive either my Cayman R or Spyder. both have better tyres (pilot SS and race maxx) on and a better geo than oem. but bar that standard which is rare as I mod most of my cars within reason to about 5k these cars there is just no need to mod them. (unless more track use, then fitting GT3 lower arms would be good and a pad swap out) That's a generous offer, thank you. In return I'll sort out two passes for a BTCC weekend of your choice. If interested? Forums aren't all bad...

pistolp said: That's a generous offer, thank you. In return I'll sort out two passes for a BTCC weekend of your choice. If interested? Forums aren't all bad... You're more than welcome to drive my Transit Connect or have a ride of my Specialized road bike

pistolp said: What would you have and why? Which do you imagine will be the better car to drive? For the Boxster I'd have the Spyder. For the Cayman, the 981 GTS. Different cars for different occasions. The Spyder is a proper event car and something very special. The Cayman is an all-rounder and the new one even more so. IMO of course. However I already own a 987 and I found it impossible to justify the expense in changing it for a 981. Edited by juansolo on Saturday 3rd May 16:53

juansolo said: For the Boxster I'd have the Spyder. For the Cayman, the 981 GTS. Exactly how I feel. I got impatient waiting for the 981 Boxster Spyder (we'll see if I regret this), so I'm going for the 981 Cayman GTS. Should finally have an allocation (I'm in the US) in the next week. Expecting August-ish delivery. No carbon fiber bucket option in the US though. I was hoping for a fixed spoiler option would appear as well, but that didn't materialize. Oh well. PTV and X73 SS should make it good fun!