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YOUR RESEARCHPorsche sport classic duck tail
Leading reported evidence
Install classic duck tail
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Leading evidence: 'Install classic duck tail' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'tbc' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Install classic duck tail' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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This spoiler, along with the 3 part wheels & 1" lowering springs, were dealer installed options from TechArt in 2000.
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Suspected cause
(And they are allowed to add a bit to the speed to compensate for the loss resulting from gently turning - apparently all manufacturers testing there do this.) I'd also suspect - TBC - that they do a lot more than one lap.
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Suggestion
(And they are allowed to add a bit to the speed to compensate for the loss resulting from gently turning - apparently all manufacturers testing there do this.) I'd also suspect - TBC - that they do a lot more than one lap.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
tbc
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(And they are allowed to add a bit to the speed to compensate for the loss resulting from gently turning - apparently all manufacturers testing there do this.) I'd also suspect - TBC - that they do a lot more than one lap.
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So why is it cool on a sport classic to the point where people are rubbing one out on them. Yet we have not done anything like it. I know Michael Shaw (not Misha as I previously wrote) makes one.
Why not the 996 crowd?
Personally I'm not a rice wing guy. Let alone hit the needs of 170mph. What's wrong with building a nice 996r?or 996st canyon runner with a duck tail? It's something different.
Just throwing it out there for dicussion.
I think it's awesome!! I have a cab so think it wouldn't look right but if I had a coup I would be all over it. Are Misha and Michael Shaw the same company? I emailed one of them a year ago and the wing was $1000. Add fitting and painting....
I drove home from work today thinking about 911R~Rally......
I gotta stop drinking at work............
Work with me here guys. Two stripes, dark gret to compliment the vesuvio, tripe cibies in front and all the other accoutrements of a rally car?
Yes I know the blue doesn't work but we're working with a concept. Everyother brother has a 996 aerocup, pss9's, and Rs GT wheels.... I've never been one to be like everyone else (just like every one else says.) I'll post up some nice pics for the P shop gurus to fix.....Tomorrow. It's been a long day.
[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:]
http://http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-pqr/Porsche-959-Rally-1986-Paris-Dakar-Rally-1024x768.jpg
Hey eharrison, do me a favor and post some pics of your car in good light from different angles the way it looks now (no additional stripes, lights, etc.) and I'll hook up some Photoshop mods for you...
Really? Damn, and here the camel was all excited about the photo shoot... Guess I'll have to go break the bad news to the camel and the camel jockey now... Great way to ruin their day, man...
OK here they are on flickr...
I'm looking for the dual strip, and maybe the big strip and a small one on the side.....light gray maybe with a slight purple hue.....If you have time throw in a tripe set of Cibies, the big flat ones,,,
I really appreciate this. I need to get some decent photoshop software.
I'm not super keen on the Shaw one, I really like how the lip on the Ruf one is a little thicker.
Now who knows the part number for the Porsche Sport Classic tail and can it fit a 996?
Hey man, sorry I haven't gotten a chance to work up those Photoshop bits for you; things have been a bit crazy over here lately... Hopefully get a chance to work on it soon...
- A.J.
Those guys are wound up tighter than a garter on Rosie O'Donnel. Gets a littlw annying when you joke or critique and the only responses are that it was uncalled for or not constructive to the thread.....
I'm going to have to agree with you there. I was sick of all the criticism going on there. For example; if you spelled something wrong the entire forum would call you out. Very unwelcoming.
Uhhh,... what were we originally talking about orginally this thread? My head is spinning...
Reminds me of the Jaguars and Colts football game a couple weeks ago: turnover to turnover.
Yeah, that's a great look on the cab. I wonder if it'd look that good without the checkers - they both flow together. I'd like to break up the rear of my cab too.
Does the ducktail force more air into the air-intake pipe? I have read in other threads that a raised stock spoiler would improve cooling. Apart from the looks, it'd be good to know if the cooling isn't affected by the ducktail. I've always loved them, a bit better on the older cars though (personal opinion)
I really like the "classic" ducktail from Getty. I wouldn't mind getting one of those for my C4S. I'd need to do a lot of modifications to it first though so the red strip could go on it.
Just installed a classic duck tail on my 99 C2. Pretty painless process got it off eBay, private seller unfortunately. I personally like the simple design. Pic below, and yes I do realize it's a different color. Got it from a guy who had it on a seal Gray car but wanted to make sure fit was good before sending it off to get painted. He also had cable to connect fan and light back up and bypass the lift signal from car to raise spoiler. Everything works perfectly.
Jetson8859 :I like they way yours looks from the side view. Any chance you could post another picture from directly behind the car and also what make it is?
Thank you
Sorry for late post. Here are a few more pics of the duck tail. I will be taking it off this weekend to get it painted so will look for markings at that time. I had my son follow me in his ranger pickup and he said he could clearly see 3rd backlight.
So all ducktails, good or bad, spoil the aero of a stock 996? Or ... ?
Can you let us know the basis for this conclusion? I've tried finding info on the aerodynamic effect of a ducktail, but no luck.
What I do know is that the 997 sport classic is 2 km/h (or was it mph - can't remember) slower than the 997 GTS which I believe has no mechanical differences that could affect top speed, suggesting the difference is aerodynamic. But, the ducktail is not the only aerodynamic difference. There's also the bubble roof and different side sills (and bumper? again, it's been a while).
Then there's last year's 996 Classic Club Coupe. Porsche always says that if you buy different aero for one end (e.g. one of their bumpers or wings), you need to buy matching aero for the other end, or else the car will be unstable. So if, for instance, you buy an aerokit bumper, you should buy an aerokit wing. Yet here they've put an aerokit bumper on in the front, and in the rear, instead of the wing, they put a ducktail. And if I recall correctly, they tested the car in both a wind tunnel and at (very) high speed at Nardo. Since they found this combination OK, that suggests the ducktail results in less lift than the standard rear end. And the effect on drag? Who knows? One article said the car goes 190 mpg, same as the 996.2 GT3 with the same engine, suggesting the ducktail has no more drag than the GT3 wing (and therefore probably no more than a standard rear end - probably). But no source was cited, and all the other articles I saw just said Porsche says at least 180 ... .
Porsche offers the aero kit front with a full width lip underneath with both
-rear cup wing
-rear fixed carrera wing
The combo on the classic club aero kit front and ducktail has a lip that does not extend to the sides (see
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18104314
) and compared to the GT3 lip only about half as high.
Lip on GT3
This means the ducktail negates rear lift less (iow provides less downforce) than either cup or fixed carrera wing as they had to add only a little lip to the front in order to achieve the aero balance between front and rear.
Cup wing will have greatest drag as the stays of the wing stick out from the side thus increasing frontal area.
Ducktail probably about the same as fixed carrera wing but more than stock retractable wing.
Since we�re reviving a 8yr old thread, I can say it�s negligible. Having both a GT3 and RPM Technik, I haven�t noticed a difference at speed and while wringing the car out at the Dragon. I do have a GT3 bumper with a Cup style(DemonSpeed) lip. Think you should probably send Rpm Technik an email because all their CSR cars have Ducktails.
Very interesting! I had no idea such a Carrera wing is (was?) available from Porsche, nor the matching lip spoiler. Not sure it beats a ducktail for looks (though it's pretty hard to see what it looks like). But I don't really care, and they at least claim aerodynamic benefits. (Drag? lift? Given the need to add the front spoiler, probably at least lift). They've never claimed that for a ducktail (on a modern Porsche). (Or have I missed something??? They offer ducktails for 991s and, I think, 992s. I think I've seen their descriptive text for the 991 version. I even contacted a dealer pretending to own a 991 and asked about the aero impact. They were unable to find out.)
I guess the silver wing is the same as the wing on the blue car? And the same side skirts are used whether with the cup aerokit or the carrera wing and lip spoiler?
Actually, I copied this image and enlarged it, but the image quality is such that it makes it hard to make out the part numbers or the model references (e.g. "post ...models", or "models from ..."). Is there any way you could post a larger or higher quality image?
Thanks!
Hi, could you clarify this a bit for those of us who are easily confused? For instance, if "it's negligible", what's "it"? And you've had both a GT3 and RPM rear aero, or whole aerokit, or ... ? Or put another way, when you say you haven't noticed a difference, that's a difference between what car (or aero setup) and what car/setup? And difference refers to top speed, or lift, or ... ?
Also - sorry if it's a silly question - but what's the Dragon and how fast do you get there? (I rarely track my car - I have something else for that - but I do drive on Autobahns. And while I can't in any way explain why this should matter, it would nonetheless greatly annoy me if putting a wing or ducktail on my car reduced the top speed by even a single kmph.)
P.S. I have already been in touch with RPM. They have never tested their ducktail. No one has tested a ducktail. Except Porsche. One of the few things that annoy me about their relationship with customers is that they force us all to do all this generally imperfect research and speculation when they could just share what they know.
I highly doubt a ducktail or any factory-ish wing would significantly limit top.speed. U really need to get the wing up to do so. Its really about matching the front aero to the rear so the front does not lift. A good splitter would take care of the lift issue over 120mph.
The repro cup wing on my car limits my top end to about 133mph on the track with my gt3 motor. It requires more torque to overcome the drag on the straights. On the autobon with more miles to gain speed im sure i coould get the car faster.
Also the dragon is the Tail of the Dragon, a road in TN. Its twists and turns but is way too low speed for any of this aero to effect handling.
Cup wing.......also dive plains, rsr center rad chimney and cup spliter to balance the front.
RPM Technik but I�m biased.
There were a couple stretches on the Skyway that put us around �going to jail speeds�. I will concede that I do not have definite facts and really observations at highway speeds. Like DeJeeper said, either option doesn�t increase drag like a bigger wing would.
I totally get you but I only trimmed two small spots to allow the hinge full freedom of moment. If you don�t plan on painting, their fitment is 100%, comes with mesh and weighs 4.3lbs. I believe 9XX makes the second best and then everyone else. Ruf made one but it�s twice the price of the RPM. By the time you paint and fit, it�ll be the price of the CSR.
Honestly I'm starting to lean in that direction unless I can find a good deal on a used one since you're 100% right about the cost of paint and fitment. Just gonna have to be a bit more patient.
Honestly I�d watch the $ to � market and buy then. They discontinued their cf hoods so maybe there�s a chance they�ll do the same for their other bits. Been trying to get a confirmation on one of their CF CSR bumpers.
It might not. But then again, something cut 2 kmph or mph from the top speed of the 997 Sport Classic, and I haven't seen any reason to remove the ducktail from the rather short list of suspects.
On the other hand, if you look at the hp and top speeds of the 996.1 and 996.2 Carreras, you would expect that if you raised their hp to same-generation GT3 levels, their top speeds would rise to 298 and 302 kph. In fact, though, the 996.1 and 996.2 GT3's top speeds are even higher - 302 and 306, suggesting that their big bumpers, spoilers, and wings, plus the side skirts, actually reduce drag. Of course, there is more to the story. The GT3s might benefit from being lower. On the other hand, they are probably slowed down by venting radiator air into brake ducts, and who knows what the impact of wider tires is. And finally, the Carreras have quite a bit less than their full 300 and 320 hp available at VMax, given that VMax comes at a higher rpm than peak hp, after which torque drops rapidly. Whereas the higher-revving GT3s might be using a larger portion of their hp at VMax (or might not, if their 6th gear is too optimized for track and peak hp is below the redline). (One could probably figure out the impact this last bit makes, using each car's torque curve and gearing.)
I also talked to them about their bumpers recently. They said they are just reselling Porsche's aerokit bumper, and for people outside of the UK such as myself, they recommended buying locally. Maybe they used to have a CF bumper, don't know. On the other hand, their side skirts are CF. They make them b/c they can make and sell them for less than the Porsche aerokit items.
The stock lid for my '99 C2 weighs 21.2 lbs. The lid with Carrera wing weighs several pounds less. I'll see if I can find the picture I took when I weighed it.
never really looked into the 997 sport classic but if its similar to the 996 sport classic its a little heavier then a gt3. It could be also be weather conditions at testing.
I guess that can't be ruled out. Strikes me as unlikely though. I'm pretty sure they test at Nardo, so wind shouldn't be a factor, as they travel in all directions around the circle. (And they are allowed to add a bit to the speed to compensate for the loss resulting from gently turning - apparently all manufacturers testing there do this.) I'd also suspect - TBC - that they do a lot more than one lap. And, possibly related to this, they surely want to quote as high speed as they can. So they probably either wait for favorable weather conditions, or keep testing until they get a result they like.
The top speeds of all the other 996 and 997s without Metzger engines seem to make sense considering the hp. (The one that might seem an exception is the 996 C4S, which is explained by it's wider hips (and not by it's Turbo-ish front end, which does not seem to add any drag to the 40AE), and having driven several C4Ss on the autobahn, somewhere above 200 kmph (124 mph) you can really feel that they accelerate less a Carrera. So if they got the 997 Sport Classic wrong, that would seem to be an unusual exception.)
Weight shouldn't actually affect top speed. For the 997 Sport Classic, the relevant comparison is the 997 GTS which has the same drivetrain (as does any 997.2 Carrera S with the powerkit).
This may be a bit of a tangent, but since we're discussing wings, spoilers, drag, etc., don't suppose anyone knows the aero impact of the Carrera Wing? Whether with or without the spoiler lip (for later cars), or - assuming it's the same wing on the blue car in the brochure page posted by Hardtailer - with or without the blue car's bumper on earlier cars? (In other words the impact on drag, top speed (or whether there is an impact), and also on lift.)
(I assume it's the same wing on the blue car, no? And the bumper looks just like the GT aerokit's bumper (not shown). Anyone know if it is?)
(We probably at least know the direction of the impact on lift (less rear lift), though not the amount. (Because Porsche packages the wing with a front spoiler lip (for later cars), and the bumper on the blue car (for earlier cars).))
Has anyone tried the design911 ducktail here?
looks like a good one for $1000. I wonder with the installation and the painting what the final cost might be?
Anyone done this?
https://www.design911.com/p/classic-...sche-997-gen2/
Someone on 911UK has fitted one. He was �satisfied� with it. To me the fit and finish looked �sub-optimal�.
http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=145...er=asc&start=0
Hi Hardtailer, any chance you could post a higher quality image of this picture (form an old TEquipment brochure?)? Or alternately, could you let us know the part number for the later version of the Carrera Rear Spoiler (the version with the front lip)?
Porsche now shows the Carrera Rear Spoiler on the Porsche Classic part of it's website, though with no price shown. They only seem to show the version without the lip spoiler (part number 996 512 903 00 G2X, probably the same as in the above image, I think, though I can't make out all the digits, no matter how much I enlarge it). They seem to imply it works on all 996s, not just earlier ones. (Pre-facelift, I presume. Can't make out the dates above.) And they again say there are aero benefits. ("enhances ... aerodynamics. ... [and] ... optimising handling.") Seems to suggest less lift (or handling benefits are from less weight and better weight distribution?), though no mention of drag.
Whale Tail equals 6 foot tall trophy... Actually, the trophy belonged to a friend of mine. It was an inside joke since it doesn't exactly fit in the car! This spoiler, along with the 3 part wheels & 1" lowering springs, were dealer installed options from TechArt in 2000. I think the spoiler looks awesome and compliments the lines of the Cabriolet.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
