LN Deep Sump or FVD

I understand this topic has been beat to death at this point, but I can't find a clear answer. Since I have been tracking my car more, I have noticed I am getting oil pressure instability around turns. I am still on street tires, if I do 200TW or lower I am very concerned about my engine. Between the LN pan and the FVD, which is the better choice? I know that neither pan truly solves oil pressure instability, and the UAOS is another mod that can make improvement, but that is for another time. The LN Pan is currently on sale along with the underguard. I figure between the FVD pan plus 997 oil return pipes, the LN isn't a whole lot more. My biggest concern is, I live in NYC and do like to drive the car around. Not a daily driver, but I drive it, it's not a garage queen. What is the likelyhood that my oil pan will get ripped off or will that undertray protect it well? I am used to lowered cars, but I did rip the oil pan off on my evo last year.. lol. Attached is a picture of my 996 showing it's height. It's on B8s and h&r springs.

You can't find a clear answer to " the LN pan and the FVD, which is the better choice?" because one doesn't exist if you require anything more than one's opinion to answer your question. My opinion, whichever one costs less money cause neither will prevent your engine from blowing up, and when it does, you can use what you saved to contribute to the rebuild. And just a suggestion, for anyone who comes in here to answer your question, ask them when the last time they were on track, or if they have been on the track at all, if they ran the parts you're interested in and how they judged them to be good or bad. How fast did you run at LRP the other day ? will help to scope how your pace for suggestion. And if you're interested in seeing what an LN pan actually does at LRP, let me know.

So I am probably better off getting the FVD with a UAOS and calling it a day.. The LN Pan is not worth the money / really does not do much more than even a stock? I did the Limerock autocross yesterday, short track just for fun with friends. When I went to NJMP Thunderbolt, I ran a 1:43 with no Chicane on street tires and stock brakes with broken ABS. I am far from driving the car at the limit but I noticed oil pressure drops on both tracks, especially taking the right hand turn right before the straight at Thunderbolt. April 30 I am going to Englishtown for the road course there so I hope to mitigate some of the oil pressure drops with 5w50 and some form of better oiling.

Don’t know if better than stock, doesn’t matter. Do know, LN deep sump = big drops in oil pressure. Fill it with as much oil as you can regardless of sump.

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I don�t think I have the drops you have but don�t have data to prove it. Only my eye occasionally watching the stock pressure gauge. Differences being 3.4 with short dipstick. I�m also not taking oil off the head to the imsb. Of course your motor is someone else�s problem now. I am on the track with a lot 997-87s with the LN sump.

Jckol, I saw you at LRP. I was the guy there with his son in a wheelchair. I do track my 996 and AutoX, I have not made any of the mods you are looking at, but I did get a surprise with my DT40 order from LN Engineering. It recommends that if tracking the 996, you should use the Billet spin-on filter, because it allows more oil flow than the NAPA gold filter that is stock with the LN Spin-on. There are clearly some oil flow issues when tracking the 996 and maybe a call them would help. And I'm from NYC and would not want to drive those streets with an even lower pan! Good editorial and feature story in the new PCA Panorama on the 996.

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Good points Brad - and I should note, my experience is mine, anyone else may see different. But, in my case, the regular oil pressure drops with the LN sump were clearly evident, consistent and never resolved.

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Imagine that, LN suggesting another expensive LN part. I read that it�s used with the IMS solution which makes sense. You would need more oil flow since some of the flow is diverted to their ims bearing.

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I remember seeing your 996 parked over by the Tesla station. Next time feel free to say hi. Good points from everyone so far, but I am still torn haha. Part of me wants to just buy the LN kit since it's not much more money, while another part is concerned about the ground clearance. How much lower does the LN pan sit?

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little over an inch

You can do the uaos track version and run 1 qt extra oil as well as smaller sump for another o.5 qts. Total 1.5 with ground clearance.

I do believe the UAOS is more important than the deep sump.

Agree with you. It's the first thing I would put on. It kills two birds with one stone with more oil capacity and eliminates all the problems associated with aos failure.

Agree more oil=more good. No AOS smoke bombing/hydro locking+more oil=really good. Add oil temp gauge and you add a significant amount of protection. �for not much money in the grand scheme of 996 things.

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I have the .5 quart LN. I also have Skip's UAOS, third middle radiator, LN low temp thermostat, and H&Rs with B6. No issue with the pan being lower, but I don't have the 2 quart. Heat kills these engines, so I've tried to do what I can to help with things. Until Skip starts shipping his sumps, I will just use the one I have. It adds some capacity, which is better than nothing. However, I wouldn't go too crazy at the track. I'm usually at Lime Rock a few times in the year. I just don't push it. Maybe I will see you there for FCPs Porsche event coming up. Random pic from Automobile Associates.

I have DEd my car from 2004-18, took 5 years off, just refreshed the engine and all the bits that could break and now getting back into it in May. Our engines are extremely durable if you take car if them. Most important thing is to change your oil alot and often. Fresh oil is good oil. Along the way i have run the 2qt deep sump with the motorsports aos from 2006-2018, predominantly on hoosiers without a hint of engine failure, no bore scoring (was scoped last year), no debris in the sump and a great oil test right before I started my engine refresh. Just sent in 2 more oil tests on Saturday to see how it stands after a 2,000 mile round trip from Chicago to Phila and back. Just wanted to test the engine and make sure everything was functioning properly. With the refresh i repmaced the motorsports aos with the UAOS track version because it's a better design and because I can run 1 qt extra oil over full. Still running the 2 qt deep sump for a bit longer until my car "fund" replenishes after all the money I spent over the last 2 years with my refresh. Next thing i will do is add Skip's UIDS. Here is the point. You need sufficient oil lubrication and there are many ways you can get it but as with everything in life, there is a tradeoff. Imho the first thing I would do as a Novice is replace your aos with the UAOS track version so your aos can handle the Gs and you can run extra oil for lubrication. The second thing I would do is get more oil in your engine with a deeper sump. Preferably a 2qt or worst case a 0.5 qt. More oil is better. No question a 2qt sump hangs lower. I drive my car around Chicago, I have a skid plate that has certainly helped, but it does hang low. The faster you become on the track, the more important the oil quantity becomes, unless you have a system like the UIDS which doesn't need 2 quarts of extra oil to mitigate oil starvation due to its design. It also doesn't hang as low as the 2 qt deep sump which should allow you to tool around Manhattan in good shape. Obviously the faster you go the more important cooling becomes. You can add a 3rd radiator and/or if you are smart, just get off the track after 20 min before oil temps swamp your water cooling. Plenty of options today with regards to mitigating oil pressure instability and starvation, not to mention have enough ground clearance. Just comes down to how fast you are and how you want to do it.

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@Slakker is in the midst of a bunch of sump testing, the results for the hartech sump he just tested look to be extremely favorable. If you are hell bent on spending money on a sump, I would reach out to him and don't bother with LN or FVD. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18747566

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The Hartech racing sump ($1650) paired with a stock Porsche AOS (the aftermarket ones are the ones that fail) has proven to be a successful combination by championship winning race teams in both WRL (2 - 8-hour races per weekend) and the British Endurance Championship (2 - 3 hour races per weekend).

Yep, I had 2 oem aos failure back to back on the track in 2005 and 2006. Common occurance in the 996. Still seeing it today at the track. Which is why we all went with the Porsche Motorsports Aos on the 996 back in the day. It was more durable than the oem aos. But it couldn't handle running the oil levels over full. But the UAOS track version has demonstrated it can handle an extra quart, not to mention improve oil stability. All clearly outlined on the oil stability thread. No question the Hartech engine is a great engine, but the first thing I would do is add the UAOS track to it. At the very least, I would put the Porsche Motorsports aos on it. No reason to be a martyr using an oem aos. Hydralock is a pretty ugly outcome.

UAOS is a must have. As someone who has gone through two (and still have a factory one) I've smoke bombed tracks multiple times even with a brand new AOS. I contemplated a deep sump for a while but the car is lowered and a deep sump would be risky on the roads here. Typically on DE days I'll limit it to 3-4 laps at a time with ample breaks in between and I don't push it to the limit.

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You're welcome. Happy I could provide that info for you in the absence of any of your own actual experience.

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Sweetie pie, no question, you are my favorite Karen on RL.

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I just think it�s strange that the DE crowd is spending 10X to fix a problem that the racers aren�t having. I know that there was an issue with them in the early 2000�s but it�s not even on the yearly PM list of the race shops I work with.

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It's not strange, you just don't know the difference..( or do you?) That's because Race Cars and DE cars are totally different animals and operate under a different set of logistics..... All the Race Cars I know of have the crankcase vent system modified to dump to atmosphere....( no matter what AOS is used) DE Cars/street cars have the crankcase vent system recirculated to the engine intake for better emissions, lower Oxides of Nitrogen, better fuel economy, better part throttle response , no check engine lights/fault codes, and to remain Federally compliant... The reason Race cars with modified crankcase vent systems can have better luck with the frail stock AOS is that the AOS diaphragm ( stock is only .020 thick) is only subjected to .2psi Whereas in DE cars/street cars the AOS diaphragm is subjected to up to -14.2psi ( 29 inhg), and these pressures cause the stock .020 thick diaphragm to fail often...( where as the .040 thick diaphragm of the UAOS system doesn't) This is why the UAOS is so important for De cars/street cars ,,it's diaphragm is twice as thick ( .040 thick) and much more robust, and can be serviced in minutes instead of hours... Pluss the UAOS system uses 3 more devices to separate air and oil than just the Vortex in the AOS body, it uses a simple Labyrinth inside the Accumulator and two mesh copper filters, one inside the Accumulator and one at the inlet of the AOS body so that its 4 times as efficient as the Stock AOS at separating the oil and air.....and why it can handle 1 quart more oil with the Track Drain.. And yes the UAOS system can be used on Race Cars and even "dumped to atmosphere" at the end if desired...if you don't care about emissions..... or part throttle driveability..or fuel economy.....or Legality edit:: OH BTW;;;; it's not 10x either, ( have a math problem too?) ... in fact the UAOS is even less expensive and out performs the Porsche Motorsport AOS which uses the same frail .020 thick diaphragm.... plus the UAOS system has a "lifetime" guarantee on the AOS... So who are these "race shops" you keep referring to, care to name them? I'm sure they will be proud to have you as their spokesperson... So what is your real problem, why do you keep trying to poo poo on the UAOS? Jealous ?? Too sophisticated for you to understand? What is it??

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Skip is the only difference between the extra quart of oil the track drain system? What happens if you run and extra quart without the drain back? My assumption is that you need to manually drain the accumulator.

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It depends on the actual blow-by of your engine in Liters per minute.....( I have a thread that shows how to test this to get the LPM ) The more Liters per minute of blow-by the more the oil "needs" to separated from the air, and the more oil that's separated the more that needs to be drained back to the sump via the Track Drain.. So if you don't know the actual blow-by of your engine ( and you can't depend on if it's new or not or on miles ) .. it is smart to run the Track Drain when running the extra quart.. The short answer is yes you are correct, when running the extra quart, you need to run the Track Drain...