PASM, PCCB Performance

I expect to order an '08 Cayman S shortly and have some questions on the performance benefits of PASM paired with 19-inch, instead of 18-inch wheels, and on the PCCB option. I will be using the car for distance driving, about 25K miles each year. I do not intend to run it on a track, other than a couple of DE events over the first 18 months. I'd like to hear a from anyone with experience as to whether the improved handling of PASM with 19-inch wheels is undermined by a harsher ride and faster tread wear on the Cayman . Regarding PCCBs since '05, I've read a number of manufacturer's claims of improved handling, acceleration and fuel-economy due to lighter wheel weight, with faster, smoother, consistent braking on both wet and dry roads, and very low maintenance - rotors and pads lasting up to 180K under ordinary driving conditions. But I've seen no facts or test data, nor heard any experienced driver echo (or dispute, for that matter) these claims. Even the service dept. of a major dealership in my area has little experience with them. Does anyone have any experience using these brakes under street/highway driving conditions? Thanks!

i have both 18 and 19 in oem wheels. i would definitely go with 18 in wheel since you are going to be driving so much. i think the car handles better and is definitely smoother with the 18 in. (and they are included).

There are extensive threads here about 18" vs. 19" wheels and tires so you might use the search function to see if you can locate a few of those and perhaps Santa Fe will chime in with a couple he thinks are most relevant. You will find opinions both ways as to what people think is "better". I have PASM with 18" wheels and tires and I'm very happy with that setup. I don't know any owners with PASM who wish they didn't have it, but conversely there are some non-PASM owners who have said if they had it to do over they would buy PASM. With regard to the PCCB's I don't know anyone who claims 180K out of the 2nd generation units, don't know anyone who has put that many miles on them! I do agree they weigh less, less unsprung weight is a good thing for handling. They stop the same as the steel brakes and don't fade. I don't know anyone with them who doesn't like them and I suspect if they cost less a lot more people would have them. I know I would. I do know that the replacement costs are a LOT higher than the option cost on a new car so if you get them, get them new. BTW there are no 2008 order guides yet, so while your dealer can take an order on paper and reserve a spot for you they really can't say anything about options etc. yet nor prices. The best they can do is guess based on 2007's.

Daniel - I have the 19" wheels and tires with PASM and I find the ride to be just fine - not harsh at all. I've put more than 20k miles on the car in about a year, the lion's share of it is long-distance driving. I've taken the car more than 10 times back and forth from Las Vegas to the SF Bay Area, From LV up to Portland (to the Porsche Parade) from there, up to Seattle, then back to LV. And, I drove it from LV to Kansas City and back in October. Some of these drives, I've done up to 800 - 900 miles in a single day. I've done probably 15 autocrosses, and five track days in the car, and I can say the PASM suspension is just the best of both worlds - not too harsh on the road and around town (although I don't drive it much in LV) and, at the touch of a button, you have a damn-near racing-stiff suspension. What the PASM lacks in relation to coilovers for the track, it makes up for in it's uncanny ability to adapt to the road surface and driver input on the fly. A true adaptive suspension - very cool. I would encourage you to try out both w/18s and 19s - because only your very own butt can be the judge of what you think is too harsh. I've driven quite a few full-on race cars of all stripes, so even the PASM in sport mode isn't all that bone-jarring to me, but you on the other hand, might be worried about losing your fillings - if you have some that is... but, you get my point I was very interested in the PCCBs when I ordered my car, and did a lot of research on them. and contacted quite a few PCA tech experts that I know personally to get their opinions. While the 2nd gen. rotors have great improvements, I still would not get them if you plan to do any (and I mean any ) track driving - unless you have very deep pockets. I've talked to people who have them and on the road they're great, I'm told. Yes, there is considerably less unsprung weight per wheel. I'm not sure about how that will translate into better gas mileage... they don't weight that much less that I think you'd see a big improvement in that department. As far as lasting 180k miles - Who knows? nobody's had them that long - we'll all have to wait and see. My regular brakes are also fast, smooth and consistent under both wet and dry conditions. Porsche's regular brakes are so ridiculously good - yes, maybe the PCCBs are slightly better, but are they necessary? In all the track and AX driving I've done, I've seen no fade in my regular 'ol brakes - and I'm an instructor-level driver. On the track use issue - if you do get the PCCBs you don't want to do anything with them that will cause Porsche to deny a warranty claim if they break... (unless again, you have very deep pockets) and putting the car on the track will do just that - create the potential for denied warranty claims. If you need to replace a rotor, they are approx. $6k to replace - each rotor - that's $24k all-around... so, they'd better last 180k miles, because I can buy a lifetime of steel rotors for $24k. brad

chrismillion has the PCCB's on his car so a PM to him might get you some opinions from an owner. The sad thing is that some folks buy them for the yellow color not understanding the eventual cost that brad points out.

OMG. That is insane.

And how would Porsche know you were at the track? Are you just going to volunteer that info?

I'm more an 18 inch wheel beleiver and especially if you plan on doing some tracking now and again. The tire choices are better as well... Regarding PCCB's, for street usage they do have some advantages and have always worked well (weight, no brake dust etc...). For the track though, we usually end up pulling those off and have done so for years on the TTs, GT2s and GT3s. We've found them to start cracking/going bad consistently and hence go to steel rotors. Obviously the Cayman balance/bias is different as is the power level but I would caution too much track usage with the PCCBs.

It would be pretty easy for them to tell by looking at how the rotors failed, and reading-out the DME. brad

Why no brake dust? It comes from the pads not the rotors.

They have dust, just not as bad as steel.

Hello Daniel I too, put plenty of road miles on my CS and 997S - 30K per year between the two. I cannot imagine the need for the PCCBs under normal driving conditions, let alone the $8K premium and the eventual cost to replace the pads. PASM is great, I have 19" wheels on both cars and the ride is wonderful.

Thanks for your posts, guys. It's a real help to hear a few voices of experience amid the marketing and sales rap. Much appreciated.

If they fail, I think any sane person would replace with steel.