996.2 Carrera 2 track - brake upgrade (caliper question)

Hi all! I am thinking about upgrading my stock (black) calipers on my 996.2. I am building the car for track, hence it has the third radiator, M030 etc. Since I am located in Austria and given the FOREX, I am looking at caliper sets in Poland. I wanted to ask what is the most cost effective Red stock caliper from the 996/997 that would be a direct bolt on and potentially lead to a rotor increase? Thanks in advance, Dick p.s. https://allegro.pl/oferta/zacisk-ham...3-8-8784938996 https://allegro.pl/oferta/zaciski-po...et-11896656074

In a base 996 all the calipers front and rear have the same pistons regaurdless of the color. There is a user, Martin, here frim the uk and he sells a kit to space the caliper and use a 350mm rotor from a 2014ish rear turbo panamera car. Its kind hard to sift through what will work. They changed the rotors, caliper and uprights in all the newer models and gt cars. I think may be able to use 996 turbo upright and spacers along with 997 cup calipers and rotors to get up to a 380mm rotor. Be aware an 18" rim may not fit. Also the piston sizes do change so u will have to upgrade the rear too to keep the car balanced. Oh yea u may meed the larger 27mm 997 master cyl to push the pistons.

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If you are looking to enhance your brake system for the track, you will want bigger calipers and a 2 piece floating hat system. This combination will give you the holy grail of more braking power, better cooling, and weight savings of ~20 lbs. You could go with a used big brake kit from Brembo or another brake kit manufacturer, which is what I did. I bought my Brembo GT Big Brake kit 355x32 F, 345x28 R from a local PCA member for half the price of a new one. More than enough braking power to flat spot any 225x40x18, 285x30x18 tires. Don't think you need anything bigger because there isn't a tire you will run that is sticky enough to use the braking power on stock size wheels. May be different if you run wider tires with wider rims all around. But most don't. Or you could buy a used set of bigger 993 or 996 turbo/GT calipers and get yourself girodisc floating hat rotors to fit. Someone else will have to tell you if they are a direct fit or if you will need additional parts to make them fit. There are plenty of folks running 993/996 Turbo/GT brakes on their 996 Carerra, but I never asked if it was a direct bolt on. Remember, for the track you want bigger calipers, a 2 piece floating hat rotor and weight savings. Stay away from adding cayenne calipers or a solid bigger rotor. While you may add stopping power you are adding a ****load of weight. Every week I see on the Porsche market place someone selling calipers. Same on eBay. ​​​​​​I am sure other members will provide suggestions as well.

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-996-a-76.html On page 76 there is some pretty good insite on caliper swaps and tech info.

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Completely forgot about Powdrhounds comments good info. Vect, I am going to make a comment and then ask a question. Comment My Brembo GT after market brakes which are 4 piston 355x32 F and 345x28 R are stronger than the grip on any street tires no matter how hot the tires become on the track. For the 200 tires like Sport Cups and 100 tires like Proxies I have to make sure I put in a couple of laps on a 2 mile track to get them hot before attempting to brake hard. It takes me 1 lap to make sure my Hoosiers are hot enough to heavy brake. If not, your abs will be working over time to eliminate sliding tires, not to mention the sliding will help them to go out of round in a hurry. The reason I mention this is you gotta be willing to run 200, 100 or Hoosiers if you go to a big brake system or the extra braking is a waste of money. if you are willing to run wider wheels and therefore wider rubber, you will help to mitigate the grip problems with a bigger brake system. The bigger you go with brakes, the more rubber width you will need and the more you will need to adjust your suspension set-up if you are going to try to fit 10's up front and 12s in the rear as an example. I would love 10/12 wheels, but don't want to go thru the headaches and costs to run them. So eventually, I will go from 8 to 9 up front and 10 to 11 in rear on my wheels and know that I will have more than enough braking power with my Brembo set-up as is. My brakes are lighter and more powerful than any stock 996/997 GT3 and Turbo, not to mention my car is lighter. So I surprise a lot of folks in the braking zones by out braking them on hot tires that are comparable to what they are running. Tires and brakes are everything. Too much brakes for the tires and you have a very squirrely time on the track. Question So what do you want to accomplish at what cost?

If it was me, I'd get some new rotors, good DOT5 fluid, and some track pads (PFC 08?), and send it. Wait until you feel you need more brakes before spending the big bucks. Like mentioned above, you may very well be tire limited anyway.

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This makes sense. I am a PCA driving instructor. I can tell you that most folks need a few years to develop the skills to fully use the capabilities of their stock brakes. Which means a bigger set of brakes is a waste of money. Upgrade your pads and rotors first. Take the next year to figure out what you want and look for used parts on various social media sites. Buy them for a good price and you are golden. Remember, on the track you are either on the gas or on the brakes. If you find yourself coasting or braking early and too long, you don't need bigger brakes. But be careful if you do brake too long, you will warp your rotors. But that's a discussion for another time.

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I am working on a podcast, would be great to get your insights there! :-), in any case many thanks for your inputs. You have answered all my questions, I have all ready bought braided lines, air ducts and pads. I am still thinking between rbf 600 vs castrol SRF (for its wet performance and practicality). I will send off my callipers then to be painted yellow (colour choice not pretending to have PCCB, as I allready have a 2s with reds). I thought there would be a "magic bullet solution" of simply getting cheap callipers from X model of 997 and calling it a day, but not adding any unsprng mass is also a plus. I saw some adaptor kits but they seem a bit jank. Have a great day !

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De Jeeper introduced me to girodisc as a Brembo rotor alternative. I may be wrong, but it looks like they produce 996 floating hat rotors that can fit with your stock calipers. If it's true, you will not only save ~15-18 lbs in unsprung weight with stock size rotors, but you will also have better cooling due to the design. Add a set of Pagid yellow brake pads and you will be the faster than he'll. Good luck. Keep us posted.

Zbomb's C2 laps the short tracks we have up here in New England faster than my Turbo and he's using C2 calipers with 330 rotors and DTC-60 pads. You'll need to be quite a fast driver to outdrive the brakes on any 911.

If you have your heart on bigger brakes the easiest cheapest way to do it is with a set of Giro Discs. They even come with spacers to fit the larger rotors. The size of the rotor is what increases the stoping power, not the caliper.

I think newer track drivers actually tend to overuse brakes as they are often wayy overbraking for turns. And since they are generally going slower, there tends to be less cooling air. I agree though that even newer drivers who are driving appropriately won't overtax the stock braking system with good fluid and some upgraded pads.

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Just a note you *could* use the turbo/c4s front uprights but you surely don't want to because the C4S/Turbo need different front struts and front strut top mounts - and the front suspension geometry is sub optimal because of the front driveshafts. The Boxster/C2 front uprights have a much better front suspension geometry.

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Yes same, here stock calipers, Sebro Rotors, Pagid Black Pads, SRF fluid...5 years of 3 season track weekends and zero brake issues with 100~200 TW tires. Slicks maybe another issue, I do not know.

Fwiw, I just checked on Girodisc's website. They have a 2 piece floating hat and disc that works with stock 996 calipers. They also have the parts needed to make it work. This solution is cheaper than a big brake kit, but more expensive than solid, heavy, one piece rotors. You save weight, gain cooling, and will have more stopping power and more durability than typical one piece rotors. In addition, girodisc fits a bigger rotor 340 F and 325 R into the stock caliper as well, providing more stopping power. Lastly, keep in the back of your mind with a floating hat system, the hat (blue part) is reusable, so you pay for them once. So once you have it, you just replace the discs. Pretty cool solution.

This is fantastic. It also sounds like the rotors will include the spacers and longer bolts so it's a complete bolt on solution. I'm due for brakes soon and might really consider this.

Yeah the giro set f/r are 2200 before tax and shipping

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Damn! Thats a E36 :-D

Yes, your math is correct. I'll probably do just the front to start with.

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Yep, much better than a 6,500 Big Brake Kit especially if you are mainly a street guy with occasional track days. Not to mention bigger rotors look a heck of a lot better than stock in filling up the wheel well. Picture with my 355 Fronts showing.

Remember... For Girodisc their are two costs. (1) hat, (2) disc. When you first buy you are purchasing both hat and disc for $1,100 front and $1,100 rear. When you need replacement discs, you are only purchasing the discs. You re-use the hats, so your cost will be substantially less. ​​​​​​To replace my Brembo discs from Brembo would cost me $1,800 front and $1,200 rear. At Girodisc it's $600 for front and $600 for rear. Huge cost savings since its a re-use ble hat.

With how effective stock calipers, SRF fluid, sebro rotors and DTC 60 pads have been for me, both from an ability to push a 100TW tire and it’s ability to maintain over a 20 min session - I’d be hard pressed to say a really expensive set of rotors is a good value proposition. If you have an itch to modify the braking system, I would say go with the 997 GT3 master cylinder which should make for a much stiffer pedal and better feel. I run a 996 Cup master which I think it pretty similar and it was a GREAT mod. ETA… DUH !!! The GT3 front brake ducts. The single best dollar to performance mod you can do IMO… other than weight reduction 🙂

Yeah, no question. Jason showed that you don't have to go hog wild for braking power with stock calipers. So does the 996 Spec PCA club racing community which has to use stock calipers. Plenty of options depending on what you want. I am very glad I put the Brembo GT Kit on my car. The stopping power is incredible. But back in the mid 2000's there was no other choice. Today, there are plenty of choices. One final note. Remember, if you want to reduce unsprung weight on your car, a 2 piece floating hat system is an easy no brainer.

the girodiscs are neat, but cost saving, they are not. 600 per ring when a sebro slotted is what, $180 or less? Not to mention if you have to swap rotors/rings at the track, doing so with the girodiscs is a royal pain in the ***. Saw my friend earn the tshirt while we ate bbq. You can downright hussle a car with the stock brake hardware, pfc 08 pads or similar, and good fluid and the brakes are simply not a concern. No, they aren't a set of AP racing 6 pistons, but they work just fine.

If you do the rotors through FCP, you get free swaps too.

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No question, any big brake kit and parts such as rings/discs for a floating hat system will be more expensive and lighter that a solid metal rotor. Most don't need them. Comes down to what everyone wants or needs. The important point to recognize is that with girodisc, sebro, etc., we now have a plethora of options. Not one is better than the other. It comes down to what each of us want. I spent time on this thread discussing girodisc because if you are like me, you may have been unaware of what they offer which is innovative if you want to keep you stock calipers, increase your rotor size, and reduce unsprung with a 2 piece floating hat system that you could only get if you purchase a big brake kit for $6,500. The old adage of "speed costs money" and how much money do you have to go fast is very true. But the innovation over the past decade in the 996 community has given us more affordable options to go faster. I for one like to save as much money as possible!

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But but but the Giro Discs look so darn cool!

Yes they do!

As far as looks go - I didn't spend that much money all things considered and think my new setup pretty gucci... Now if it will work better than what's coming off, no idea, yet... ETA... I take it back, the rotors were a **** ton of money... but FCP means I only will be paying for them once.

Well, we'll, well, so bigger is better after all?! 😊

Looks wise... **** yeah ! just not banking on it actually improving my performance unless the improved looks improves my self esteem which somehow translates into me driving faster. Look good feel drive good....right...

Throwing money down the drain. No chance the stock calipers and rotors aren't good enough, no matter your skill level. So much misinformation about brakes, it's mind boggling. So much wasted money.

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Depends on what your definition of good enough is. Sure, in stock form they are excellent for the street and good enough for most occasional track sessions. Add in better pads and rotors they are even better for on the track. PCA 996 Spec club racers don't have a choice, they have to run stock calipers. But they are all running them so it becomes a race of skill, not equipment advantages. Is the addition of a 2 piece floating hat system with bigger rotors that uses the stock calipers even better? Sure, for weight savings, and more disc surface for stopping. But do most occasional DE guys need this? Nope. Most aren't fast enough and advanced enough to be able to use them. Do street guys need it? Nope. But if they want it for show, sure. Nothing wrong with it. Is a big brake kit even better from Brembo, Alcon, AP, etc. Sure, for additional weight savings, larger friction surface, better cooling, less brake fade all which means later braking. You bet it is on the track if you are fast enough and skilled enough to use it. If so, it will make you faster on the track than someone with the same car and comparable driving skills with stock calipers and better rotors and pads. But to your point. In most cases, it is a waste of money. Especially if you are not consistently on the track working on your speedcraft. Hence option 1, get gripper pads and better rotors first. When you stop coasting and stay on the gas longer into the braking zone, and then learn to use the brakes hard over shorter distances, your probably ready for the next step. I promise, you will know when. It will hit you like a brick. You are looking for a way to shave one more second a lap and realize you need to stay on the gas just a split second longer, but you know your brakes will fade. Thats when you go to a big brake kit. It happened to me. But most never get to that point because they don't consistently track their car. In our cars, extra HP and more braking power is a waste of money on the street because you will never be able to use it. But on the track you can.

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Yes it does but speaking of looking gucci... still resisting that stud conversion? That wheel swap contest one of the highlights of this forum!

I think considering @De Jeeper is pretty much a professional mechanic capable of GT3 swapping a C2 and I’m just a hack… I think I did pretty good representing the lug bolt (stupid) team.

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Hah! Any advantage is a good advantage. There was a guy years ago in our region that would have his wife slap him before he got in the car. Any edge baby.

Alright guys, you got me on a roll thinking about braking on the track. There is one more wrinkle you have to think about if you add more braking power and you learn how to use it. With high speed tracks that are longer with intense braking areas, your tires will very slowly rotate along your wheel, moving your tire/wheel from being balanced to unbalanced as the tire slowly slides along the rim. You will notice it because you will develop vibrations on the track. I haven't had it happen to me on 2 mile long tracks because its tough to get above 120-125 on the smaller straights and therefore the braking isn't as intense. But it happens to me every time I am at Road America. The reason this happens is that our stock rims do not have a bead which stops the tire from sliding along the rim under heavy braking. Fikse, APEX and many other wheels do, since they are made for the track. The way that I have solved for this problem is that I have 2 sets of Carrera 2 wheels. If I am going to Road America, I bring both sets, knowing that I will eventually have this problem. If you participate in PCA Club Race/DE events at one of the Mega racetracks such as Road America, Watkins Glen, COTA, etc. where they run joint club race and DE sessions, you will find that many of the tire companies will be there. And most importantly, they will be providing wheel balancing services for a fee. Not to mention, if you align yourself with a good Porsche Indy that supports club racing and DE, they will be there to help as well. Some may even bring their balancer. I bring this up because if you do a lot of DE, get faster, get a big brake kit, become a kick *** braker, and run a big track, you will eventually run into this issue and you will need to address it. Obviously, you can also get a set of Fikse, Apex or other racing wheel that will address the issue from the onset. Alot to think about if/when you add a big brake kit for DE. But, its worth it if it fits your objectives.

FYI, timing is everything in life. Just saw this on ebay. A new Girodisc set for both front and rear is $2,200 for the 996. Here is a used set front and rear for $1,000.27, that looks to be in good shape other than rust on discs which will take care of itself after you apply the brake a few times. Remember, hats are re-useable and quite frankly the key piece in a floating hat system. You only pay once for them. Ebay doesn't show the size of the discs, so I would check on Girodisc's website the configurations for you car with a call to the seller to see if its a match. But if it is, and you are looking for a brake upgrade, this may an opportunity to upgrade your brakes for half price. 1999-2004 Porsche 911 996 Front Rear Brake Rotors 2 Piece Girodisc Caliper Space | eBay

Yeah the only problem is unknown metal thickness and a replacement set of rotors is $1400

The thickness should match up to OE rotors since you are using the OE calipers. Remember, Girodisc built these for the OE 996 calipers. Regarding cost. Yep. They are more expensive than solid metal rotors. But way cheaper than a big brake kit if you want more stopping power, huge unsprung weight savings and more impressive looking rotors in your wheel well. Definately not for everyone, nor should it be. Just a hand delivered example for review that you can get for less than 50% of the cost new.

Yeah it sold for $800 add the cost of replacing the rotors if the old needs to be done and your at 2400 when a new set goes for 2200 before any up coming sales if they are offered I bid till 550 that was my reasonable threshold good luck to the new owner hope he enjoys a beautiful light set

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I hear you. It is a relative game to be played on what every 996 owner wants to do with their car. Rotors and pads are the two most expensive wear items that everyone will spend money on besides tires. Street driving is low wear and tear and inexpensive in contrast to track driving. How does 3k for rotors and 2k for brake pads grab you for a DE season? Not to mention 5k for tires? I look at girodisc as an inexpensive solution to more breaking power and weight savings. Crazy Isn't it. 😁 ​​​​​​

I wonder if this would help me. I always overheat the brakes in my cars I�ve tracked. All stock except for fluids and pads. It�s often after coming off the track, but sometimes on the track as well. Maybe I�m overbraking, as I usually wait until the last minute and threshold brake and sometimes catch folks at the end of the straight.

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They certainly will help. 997-341-483-92 and 997-341-484-92, about $5 each. Also get some high quality fluid, RBF600 as a minimum. If you;re getting brake fade after coming off the track then it's probably the fluid in the calipers that is boiling from the residual heat. I have a set of slightly used Performance Friction front brake pads that fit the stock "black" calipers, PFC 0776.11.17.44 that I'd let go for a decent price. Confirm fitment first as these were on the back of my Turbo. The pads grip like crazy and do not fade.

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That is a fantastic alternative. The ability to upsize the rotors and retain the stock calipers is way cool

It doesn�t matter which fluid I use. The last fluid I used was RBF600, still got air in the system and a soft pedal. It seems to always happen if I don�t drive very fast after a very hard braking event. It�s also bad on cool down laps. I feel like my car could use more than 1 cooldown lap.

Awesome, thx. I can�t believe these are $5. Do they install easily?

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Yes, just pop the old brake ducts off the tuning fork arm and pop these on.

Yeah, brakes can be tricky. The air ducts will definitively help. Early on when I was running the stock brake set-up, what I found was that a more aggressive brake pad actually helped with brake cooling because I found myself on the brakes for shorter time periods due to more stopping power, versus stock pads which I had to stay on the brakes just a bit longer. I also started to change my brake fluid after every track day. Both helped. Now here is a kicker, when I went to the Brembo GT Big Brake kit, I did NOT change my master cylinder. Stayed with my stock one. Never had a problem with the brakes over heating, and never had a problem with squishy brakes. What I found with the big brake kit was that the duration of my braking was reducing even further. It certainly was stronger, but the combination of more braking power coupled with stickier tires meant that I could brake harder and in shorter distances.

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How much for the pfcs and how many mm remaining? Thx

For those that upgraded thier C2 brakes to 996 GT3 MK2 6 piston front and larger rear did you delete the brake pressure regulator?

I swapped over the entire gt3 abs system too so the gt3 car does not have the regulator therefore neither do i. Also gt3s do not have psm.

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Thanks I have a 996 GT3 ABS unit too but wasn't planning on using it. Did you swap over the ABS unit for any particular reason? Or is the GT3 ABS unit more suited to the bigger brakes or do the GT3 uprights have a different number of teeth on the toothed wheel? Haven't counted them yet actually. I don't have PSM on the car it's all going into. Only other thing I now need to order is larger dust shields for the rear.

My car was a mk1 and non canbus so when i swaped the mk2 gt3 drivetrain and dme it just made sense to swap in the canbus abs unit. Also i had to run an addition brake line to the back. My mk1 rears were fed off the same brake line. Not sure how a standard mk2 c2 does it I was also told the gt3 abs is more hands off but have no proof. my set up with a pressure sensor for the Aim. Not the reglator.

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Thanks, hadn't thought about whether I need an extra brake line for the rear. Mine is an 04' C2 so already has canbus setup. Looks like you also swapped in a GT3 MC too? Notice any difference without the pressure regulator? I'm leaning towards removing it when I install the entire setup.

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All of the above except using Pfc 8 in the front 11 in the back is all I�ve used for the past 50 track days I�ve done the past two years. Used with 200, 100 tires and pirelli slicks.

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That is a 7-3 mc. The gt3 set up does not have the pressure regulator so remove it if going with the gt3 abs. My mk1 brakes were very good but this gt3 set up is better. Not sure what effect the regulator has as i never tried the mk1 brakes without it. im also using my front c2 calipers on the back with spacers amd a 350mm rotor. Its the same basic caliper and the pistons r much bigger.