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YOUR RESEARCHH&R Sport Springs
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Install eibach bars
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The car did have more roll than I wanted, so I bought and installed the Eibach bars..
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Suggestion
But the intent is to learn and adjust to the driving characteristic differences between the two platforms this way first then adjust the car accordingly.
Leading evidence: 'Install eibach bars' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust car accordingly' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Install under prior ownership retaining the stock shocks
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The springs were installed under prior ownership retaining the stock shocks.
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On my C2 17s, 205f / 255r, I used 15mm spacers on the rear, which for perfect, and 7 on the front.
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He asked what I used the the car for, and after much consideration said he's probably go with the KW's.
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But the intent is to learn and adjust to the driving characteristic differences between the two platforms this way first then adjust the car accordingly.
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Adjust car accordingly
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Suggestion
But the intent is to learn and adjust to the driving characteristic differences between the two platforms this way first then adjust the car accordingly.
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Suggestion
I'll most likely replace all the suspension arms, top mounts etc etc, then fit the KW's, and once I've benchmarked them, I'll decide whether the car needs uprated anti-roll bars too.
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Thinking about picking these up. I think dropping the car 1� would make wheel fitment look much better as well.
Anyone running these springs? Thoughts?
I�ve done about 50 DE days on mine. I don�t drive it on the street.
They work well for me with B8 shocks.
I don�t think it�s recommended to use stock shocks.
I had a set with B8�s for about 4 yrs (street driving only). They were a nice upgrade from the worn out stock suspension, but I found the setup to be be a little stiff/jarring overall. I�ve since moved on to 3 way adjustable coil overs and I am finally comfortable with the way the car feels and handles.
I have them, but as mentioned, you'll definitely want to change dampers at the same time. The Bilstein B8 seems to be the go-to with the H&Rs. They are sold as a package from several vendors. I believe I bought mine from FCP Euro. I am very happy with the set-up. I contemplated coil-overs as they are great (I have them in another car), but they can be a PITA (not always) to get dialed in correctly. The B8/H&R kit is just plug-and-play that just works. Install, align and go.
Here is a before pic (you can actually see a Bilstein box in the back window) and some after shots. Very pleased.
I also had the H&R with B8 on previous 996. I wasn’t a fan of the rebound on the rear for full compression hits (think RR track approaches), but never thought of adding perch to the rear like e30rapidic…smart…to add some rake and distance. The 1.25” lowering and spacers do look the part on our cars. I can recco Eibach Sport as alternative. A little less drop, 1” for me, and more composed for my driving style.
Eibach Sport stance.
Here is an example of my '04 C4S. The springs were installed under prior ownership retaining the stock shocks. The car is
really
low -- the front lip scrapes a lot on driveways but the stance looks great IMO. This isn't my DD but if it were I imagine it might get annoying to angle driveways all the time. I don't have anything to compare them to so no complaints after several track days (Sonoma); except for understeer, I'm not blaming the springs.
2004 C4S
I also have them on my DD, a 2003 C4S. I've had H&Rs on several cars and while I like the look, I plan to convert to Feal coilovers, primarily for adjustability.
I've asked my Indy what he thinks about b6/b8 with lowering springs or going coilovers. Instead of trying to humor me and take my money, he said he doesn't like either option. For me.
he asked if I was going to track it. No sez I.
He was painfully honest and said he will do it if I want the look but other then that it's not just a waste of money, its not going to help with nvh and the nasty roads around here. He's correct of course.
I did say that I felt it was a bit wallowy on corners and as well at highway speeds over bumps. Since my steering and suspension are in mostly new condition, the suggestion was antisway bars and new drop links. When I drove it for the first time I felt a big improvement and cornering is flatter, less understeery. 996 like many cars comes from the factory tuned that way for safety. I don't need that safety net. I can tell the car is very well balanced stock, it's a 911. But I grew up driving sideways on mountain back and dirt roads, and on snow. First in an rx 3, then a super beetle, then a fiat spider. And plenty of other cars of various drivetrain types. Hell I could drift my mother's giant Montego mx wagon back in the day. Now, at my age, I don't have the courage slash stupidity to drive that way. There's also nowhere to drive that way except at events or track days. But I can feel the balance just fine through the wheel on my 996, and the antisway bars made it feel right to me. Also, I have the stock bars in the shed. They are lighter than the eibachs, sure. But they are also noodles. Please don't think I'm mocking any one on lowered or coilovers suspension. Far from it. They look amazing and at the track, properly corner balanced and setup, obviously good quality coilovers and a lower CoG are going to shave lap times. Ive simply noticed that there are many many coilover and lowering threads, and rarely are sway bars even mentioned. So do yourself a favor, I guarantee if you are on good condition stock ride height and suspension whether ROW or NA, and your sway bars are stock, consider an upgrade. Of course there are lighter options, and more adjustable options, than the eibach kit, so if you're worried about heavier, that's an option. Hth.
Looking at the images you guys have posted post spring fitment, they look as if they've removed closer to 2" from the ride heights, rather than 1" ?
Here's mine stock ride height, it's a UK/ROW car. I reckon there's a 2" gap from tyre to fender at the back, and not much less at the front. I'd want to lose 1 1/8" to 1 1/4" maximum :
I can definitely second the benefit of the Eibach sway bars. I've posted this comment previously, but it's good info. I bought my '94 996 C2 last fall. It had stock springs, but very recent Bilstein B4s. Handling was good and I like the stock ride height for the roads here in the mountains. The car did have more roll than I wanted, so I bought and installed the Eibach bars.. Although I would prefer the B6s, the B4s are good, and the bars transform the car. Definitely cost effective for under $500. Will probably try to do at least one DE this year.
I recommend RoW M030 springs for our cars. I have them together with RoW spec B6/B8* (in the C4S and Turbo the rear B6=B8) and I really love how it looks and how it handles.
*Bilstein's references are different for the USA springs or the RoW springs. You will have to look to the european cathalog to find the right part number
I'm in the RoW M030 camp as well. Koni yellows in my case for shocks. (I didn't do sway bars; I intend to correct that soon, also with RoW M030 parts.) Before/after pics, such as they are, below. The car was originally at stock US spec ride height.
Bilstein gets my vote. I have a 15 year old set of PSS9s on my 2002 C2 that are still going strong. They never leaked, lots of track days and easy to set up. Full stiff rear, half stiff front. Tarret sway bars full tight rear, full loose front. Car set up to GT3 specs. Guard Lsd. rotates and handles beautifully on the track. They have done everything I've asked them to do. Planning on going with Bilstein again in the next year or two when i replace them.
Plenty of replies here, but I also have them. Have been great. 4 years now on car, roughly. I have GT3 offset wheels with 235/40r18 front and 295/30r18 rear. All fine with no rubbing. Best of luck, no reason not to get them.
Thanks for all your answers gentlemen. I spoke to a local suspension guru yesterday afternoon and asked him simply "KW V3 or Bilstein PSS10 ? And why ?"
He asked what I used the the car for, and after much consideration said he's probably go with the KW's. As for why, he thought they were slightly more compliant.
I'll most likely replace all the suspension arms, top mounts etc etc, then fit the KW's, and once I've benchmarked them, I'll decide whether the car needs uprated anti-roll bars too.
We don't know as much in the states about KW as we do with Ohlin and Bilstein. Would welcome any compare and contrast info. Maybe KW is something we should be looking at as a better option.
I�ll update with my progress. But the KW�s get good reviews in the UK due to their construction from stainless steel, which means that even with the amount of salt applied to the roads in a UK Winter, the dampers remain corrosion free. Additionally the spring seats are formed from heavy duty nylon/plastic, which again, does not corrode, so adjustment remains possible after many years and miles of use.
The spring platform rings are locked using a stainless grubscrew bearing on a hard nylon �ball bearing� so as not to damage the adjustment threads on the damper body.
All in all, some nicely thought out solutions to problems few, if any, other manufacturers (even high end ones) have addressed.
I hear you. Unfortunately not on the 996. It was Bilstein PSS9s then 10s, then Ohlin as the 996 coilover darling. What are your thoughts on the KW for the 996? About time we start talking about them if they are a solid choice.
We've both posted similar comments previously, but like you I think it bears repeating. Most of the 996 folks on here are well aware of the different suspension options, but if it helps even one driver, hey it's all good.
@RWPinNC
I am in Wilmington, you? We should get together at an event, I try to get out there every Saturday to a cars n coffee or something like it. If I already asked your location apologies. Here's Savannah showing her best side. I could not resist changing the wheels to black and adding the Carrera decals. That's about as crazy as I get. I am not even sure if Carrera decals were an option in 2001, but in my childhood dreams, my 911 always had the Carrera script. I'm still on stock 17s. It sounds like our rides are very similar, are you 17s diehard or did you upgrade or get the car with 18s?
What a gem. I can't spot the difference from that side view, is it a 2 or 4? There's no question that a bit of aero brings 996s into the modern camp. 911s are timeless anyway. So about those koni yellows. Did you have experience with the Bilstein 4s or 6s prior to putting your Koni on? I've heard good things about the damping, but never tried a 996 with konis. If I were changing anything on my car it would be to a more modern damped shock. The B4s on my car are new, so it's low priority but I've no doubt that something more modern and designed more recently would give a less harsh ride then B4s. I think the B4s are pretty old technology compared to konis? And koni tout their dynamic damping, like a low budget Ohlins. I'm not sure about b6 and b8, when they were designed and if any upgrades have been done over the years. Anyway not important I've no budget for suspension changes until my laundry list of deferred maintenance is paid for. Yeesh.
Thanks for the kind words. It's a C2 targa. I don't believe they made any C4 targa 996's. All 997 targas were AWD though, so if you want a 2WD targa with opening rear window the 996 is your only option!
My only other experience with 996 shocks is the 100K mile originals that were on this car when I got it, and the Yellows are a world apart from those. I intended to get Koni Dynamics but they were unobtanium when I was doing my suspension refresh. But I like the Koni Yellows just fine. Not overly aggressive even at higher settings, never harsh, always supple feeling.
I generally don�t get into these - �I recommend X because I have/bought them� debates. I bought the KW�s because they were in near new condition at a great price, and I knew they were MUCH better than what I had at the time. Indeed they are! I�ve never had nor ridden in a car with PSS10�s so I can�t comment on them. What I can say is, based on my experience I�m pretty sure you�ll be happy with the KW�s. They�re super easy to adjust (2way�😉 - low speed rebound & compression� 3 ways allow high speed compression adjustment I think) and the composite collars (for height adjustment) and stainless steel/inox bodies will never rust. Take your time getting them dialed in - you need to live with them (especially with street driving due to highly variable conditions). Once you get close to where you�re at a happy balance between response and compliance the adjustments are small (one click in either direction makes a real difference). Good Luck
Correct, the KW Clubsports are designed for track use and suggested for use with slick tires. They're supplied with top mounts featuring spherical bearings, unlike the V1, V2 and V3 options for the 996, which utilise the OE standard rubber 996 items.
So, I've decided that I really don't need the added complexity (nor cost) of the V3 KW's, therefore my options are to go with KW V1's, which are basically identical to V3's but with no external adjustment for compression and rebound, or .... alternatively to go with the well proven and simpler option of Bilstein B8's and an Eibach Pro Spring kit.
But I have some questions for you guys ...
Being based in the UK, Design 911 are frequently the most competitive when it comes to aftermarket stuff for the 996 suspension.
They offer this B8 kit :
https://www.design911.co.uk/p/bilste...orsche-996-c2/
Which their blurb opens with : "
Bilstein Sprint B8 FRONT and REAR shock absorbers PACKAGE Porsche 996 C2 Upgrade for cars with stand (sic) suspension just like M030.
Cars with lowering springs".
But which then says : The shock absorber for those drivers who prefer a sports suspension
but are not particularly interested in lowering the body
and :
"The BILSTEIN B8 Sports shock absorber is the ideal solution for drivers revelling in the understatement . The wolf in sheep's clothing snarls, when necessary, but otherwise goes reliably about its work in daily traffic
with no lowering of the body whatsoever
"
So which is it, are
these
B8's for use on cars with lowering springs or not ??
But they also sell these B8's
Front (sold as pair) :
https://www.design911.co.uk/p/bilste...005--vn7-4613/
And which states :
Fits cars:
- with sports suspension.
The shortened, high-performance shock absorber for lowered sports cars.
And :
Rear (sold individually) :
https://www.design911.co.uk/p/bilste...ber-24-029940/
And which states :
Fits cars:
- With sports suspension M030 option
- Cars with lowering springs
And an Eibach Pro kit which drops the car 30mm front and rear.
https://www.design911.co.uk/p/loweri...ibach-pro-kit/
Does anyone know what the difference is between the full front and rear damper kit containing the
black
B8 dampers, and the
yellow
B8 dampers available as pair for the front and individually for the rears ?
Do I need to use the standard OE bump rubbers with the front B8 dampers and Eibachs or the shorter X74 items ?
Likewise do I need to use the X74 (or M030 ?) rear bump rubbers with the rear B8's or should I use the stock OE items ?
Lastly, will I need shorter front and rear sway bar droplinks, or will the stock OE items accommodate the 30mm drop without an issue ?
Are these the Eibach springs you'd recommend? Can you utilize stock shocks with them?
Eibach Springs PRO-KIT Performance Springs (Set of 4 Springs) Porsche
$350.00
Model #7213.140
Mike - Those are the springs. Yes, you can use stock sticks with them. Email or call the Eibach folks in CA. They’ll gladly tell you their recco’s. You can expect about a 25mm drop from US spec and 15-ish mm with RoW OE original spec.
I have a brand new, never installed set. I was originally going this route and then saw I could buy the ROW M030 set from a dealer for a very reasonable price (no longer the case). I didn't want to ship because of the size and weight so I put them on Craigslist. I didn't get any real responses so they ended up on a shelf in the garage. I see you're local and if you're interested, I'll make you a deal.
You didn't say what model you have but these fit a '99 C2 and are H&R part # 29513.
Well, there you go, Bob is your uncle. C4 springs might be different. Are you C2?
I like mine. At least until I install my PSS 10s. I think these would get sold more often if it wasn't for shipping so if you are local to these that solves that.
Bought my car with them on my 99� C2 with US M030. Still original struts at 110k. Car still feels surprisingly tight. Planning on hitting a few DE events this season with it and giving my s2000 a break. A progressive rate spring like this wouldn�t be my first choice for track stuff if I was buying a setup myself. But the intent is to learn and adjust to the driving characteristic differences between the two platforms this way first then adjust the car accordingly.
235/40r18 on a 8� +52
285/30r18 on a 10� +54
RH Speedline Style
Thanks everyone for the input, going to go with the eibach springs. Does anyone have recs for spacer sizes to have flush fitment? and suggested spacer brands to go with?
@GC996
your setup is what I think I would start with for HPDE etc. Very sound. At first glance some might think you're making it too pointy, but 996s are very much the opposite stock. They are road cars, and Porsche at the time was really going for the luxury premium market, and away from the perceived air cooled noise and "smells like petrol in here". Especially in the USA. The stock engine intake and exhaust note are another example of them perhaps erring on the conservative side. They are also easy to tweak to your personal preference tho, and now they are old cars, there's so many good options. I am having some expensive work done next week (reservoir, pump, thermostat, both radiators plus new tires all around.) That is the only thing stopping me from ordering another desired personalization, a new pedal set. Soon... After my wallet recovers. If that ever happens.
I must have missed it, don't know if yours is a C2 or C4s? 17 or 18 inch? They are different. On my C2 17s, 205f / 255r, I used 15mm spacers on the rear, which for perfect, and 7 on the front. I think I could have gone 10 or 12mm in the front. Measure carefully there are plenty of guides in the list or elsewhere online.
https://www.willtheyfit.com/
was helpful.
